Conversation: 878-018
Prev: 878-017 Next: 878-019Start Date: 13-Mar-1973 4:42 PM
End Date: 13-Mar-1973 5:19 PM
Participants:
Nixon, Richard M. (President); Kissinger, Henry A.; [Unknown person(s)]; McCloy, John J.; Bull, Stephen B.;Recording Device: Oval Office
NARA Description:
On March 13, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon, Henry A. Kissinger, unknown person(s), John J. McCloy, and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House from 4:42 pm to 5:19 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 878-018 of the White House Tapes.
Nixon Library Finding Aid:
Conversation No. 878-18
Date: March 13, 1973
Time: 4:42 pm – 5:19 pm
Location: Oval Office
The President met with Henry A. Kissinger.
Charles H. Percy
An unknown person entered at an unknown time after 4:42 pm.
John C. McCloy’s arrival
The unknown person left at an unknown time before 4:47 pm.
People’s Republic of China trip [PRC]
-Percy's presence in delegation
-Paris
-Endorsement
-[Unintelligible name]
-William P. Rogers
Vietnam
-North Vietnamese in Laos and Cambodia
-US disengagement
-South Vietnam counterattacks
-30-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. July-2010)
-Prisoners of war [POWs] return
-US attacks on North Vietnamese in Laos
-US bombing of Ho Chi Minh Trail
-Adm. Thomas H. Moorer
-Targets
-Use of B-52
-North Vietnam’s fears
-Warning
-Display of President’s reaction
-Effect on future decisions
-South Vietnam
-POWs
-Khe Sanh
-Buildup
-US support for forces
-Vietnam settlement
-Honorable peace
-Preservation
-Instability
-North Vietnamese violations
Letters
-Bombing
An unknown person entered at an unknown time after 4:42 pm.
McCloy
-Delay
The unknown person left at an unknown time before 4:47 pm.
Meeting with McCloy
-Length
McCloy’s background
-PRC, Soviet Union
McCloy entered at 4:47 pm; the White House photographer was present at the beginning of the
meeting.
-31-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. July-2010)
Conversation No. 878-18 (cont’d)
Greetings
Foreign Service
-Wives
-Ambassadorships
An unknown man entered at an unknown time after 4:47 pm.
Refreshments
The unknown man left at an unknown time before 5:19 pm.
McCloy’s health
*****************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3
[Privacy]
[Duration: 4s]
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3
******************************************************************
Arms control
-Mccloy's work
-Frustration
-Arms Control Advisory Committee
-J. William Fulbright
-President's advisors
-Thomas E. Dewey, Dean G. Acheson
McCloy’s career
-Advice on foreign policy
-President’s appreciation
-North Atlantic Treaty Organizatin [NATO]
-Soviet Union
-Value
-Past presidents
-32-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. July-2010)
Conversation No. 878-18 (cont’d)
-Franklin D. Roosevelt, Harry S. Truman, Dwight D.
Eisenhower, John F. Kennedy, Lyndon B. Johnson
-Resignation
-Work with Kennedy
-Establishment of Arms Control and Disarmament Agency [ACDA][?]
-Congressional relations
-Strategic Arms Limitation Talks II [SALT II]
-Current concerns
-Shifts in balance of power
-Western Europe
-Change in jobs
NATO
-Future
-Shift in balance of power
-Gaullist victory in France
-Left-wing
-Germany
-Kissinger’s concern
**************************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 4
[National security]
[Duration: 12s]
INTELLIGENCE REPORTS
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO 4.
**************************************************************************
-European unity
-Left-wing enemies
-Socialists
-US interests
-Social Democratic Party [SPD]
-Tone
-East-West relations
-33-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. July-2010)
Conversation No. 878-18 (cont’d)
-Otto Von Bismark
-Willy Brandt
-New group
-Pressure
-European socialist state
-Unification of Germany
-East Germany
-Relations with Soviet Union
Arms Control Advisory Committee
-Disarmament
-Usefulness
-Technical complexities
-Sensitivity
-Second place
-Future
-Composition
-Fulbright
-Effectiveness
-McCloy’s successor as Chairman
-Reconstitution
-Resignations
-New members
-William W. Scranton
-David Packard
-Abilities
-William C. Foster
-Effectiveness
-Advocacy
-Use of intelligence
-Replacement by Gerald C. Smith
-Abilities
-Experience
-Judgment
-Selection of a member
-Criteria
-Establishment
-Complications
-[First name unknown] Patrick [?]
-34-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. July-2010)
Conversation No. 878-18 (cont’d)
-Abilities
-Scranton
-Abilities
-Packard
-Smith
-Membership on committee
-Chairmanship
-Problems
-Compared with Foster
-Robert F. Ellsworth
-NATO
-Abilities
-Chairmanship compared with membership
-Henry Cabot Lodge
-Requirements of job on committee
-Complexities
-Dealings with other committees and committee members
-Massachusetts Institute of Technology [MIT]
-[Unintelligible name]
-Cambridge, Massachusetts
-Knowledge of weapons
-Leaks [?]
Bay of Pigs invasion
-Leaks
-Allegations in book
-Chester Bowles
-Undersecretary of State
-Opposition to operation
-Leak to press
-Daniel Ellsberg case testimony by McGeorge Bundy
-Government servant
-Obligations
-Sabotage of operation
Arms Control Advisory Committee
-I[lorwith] W[ilbur] Abel
-Labor connections
-John A. Wheeler
-35-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. July-2010)
Conversation No. 878-18 (cont’d)
-Princeton University
-Scientist
-Discretion [?]
-Contribution
-Gen. Lauris Norstad
-Chairmanship
-McCloy's service
-Length
McCloy's plans
-Possible appointment
-New York
Foreign relations
-President's 1972 PRC, Soviet Union trips
-Arms control
-Vietnam settlement reaction
-Congress
-Dangers
-Difficulty
-US successes
-Safety
-Strength
-Soviet Union
-Vietnam
-Need for defense strength
-Arms buildup
-Europe
-US military presence
-SALT II, Mutual and Balanced Force Reductions [MBFR]
-Europe
-Government infrastructure
-Leadership
-Parochialism
-Japan
-Alliance
-Soviet Union
-PRC
-Economic ties with US
-36-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. July-2010)
Conversation No. 878-18 (cont’d)
-US defense
-Cutbacks
-Budget
-US troops in Europe
-Role of US strength, respect
-Vietnam settlement reaction
-India
-Council on Foreign Relations [?]
-Soviet Union
-Arms supplies
-Economic aid
-Latin America
-US arms supplies
-France
-Military
-Stabilizing force
-Control
-Indonesia
-Dr. Achmed Sukarno
-US arms program
-Communists
-Role of army
-Council on Foreign Relations
-Attitudes
-Support for PRC trip
-President’s anticommunism
-Chou En-lai
-Diplomacy
-Advantages
-Compared to Soviet Union initiatives
-World security
-Soviet Union
-Split
-Opportunity for US role
-Europe
-US interest
-Unity
-Relations with US
-Economy
-37-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. July-2010)
Conversation No. 878-18 (cont’d)
-Confrontation with US
-NATO
-Defense
-Challenges to US
-Relations with Western Europe
-McCloy’s preoccupation
-International meeting
-Amsterdam
-New relationship with US
-McCloy’s contacts
-Germany [?]
-Great Britain
-France
-High-level group
-East Germany
-Soviet Union
-Partnership
-Jean Monnet
-Background
-Views
-United Europe
-Avoidance of partnership with US
-US strength
-Surcharges on US goods
-Conflict with Gen. Charles A. J. M. de Gaulle
-President's meeting with de Gaulle
-President's meeting with Monnet
-US foreign policy
-New paradigm [?]
-Shaping of events by US
-World War II
-European strength
-European leaders
-Edward R. G. Heath
-Georges J. R. Pompidou
-Brandt
Bull entered at an unknown time after 4:47 pm.
-38-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. July-2010)
Conversation No. 878-18 (cont’d)
President's meeting with William J. B. Dorn
Bull left at an unknown time before 5:19 pm.
Flowers
Kissinger and McCloy left at 5:19 pm.