Conversation 881-007

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Good.

Something in the way of the bridge over there.

Right.

There's something.

Good.

Any understanding of that?

Thank you.

I'm glad that you came.

It may be a problem.

You've got your kids, of course.

I don't know.

They have all prepared now.

I don't mind it, that's why I said I don't mind it, I actually, I actually read it.

Never have I seen any people where you can only feel good, provided I don't feel like robbing something that I ought to do for everybody.

In other words, that's the real test, whether or not seeing somebody individually.

I'd rather see somebody individually and make them feel good.

And that's what the office is for.

Provided it is not taking time away from doing something for everybody, passing the test.

So that's why you can also be a little cold-blooded about who you see and make feel good.

It's well worthwhile to make Senator Domenici

feel good because he's a guy we've got pretty well on track and we can keep on track and he works on it to us for four years.

Seeing a retired poster child, on the other hand, probably made her feel good, but what the hell could this have done to you?

Maybe it does some good.

I have a sense that there's really exposure to such people.

What do you think?

Encourage people to deal with a bad thing.

That does you good.

But I don't think, I don't think that, I would bet they didn't get another dollar and a half as a result of that.

Well, when you're out, just see the courtrooms.

You had one hell of a good time.

Interesting time seeing them.

They always have something to offer and so forth, so.

But it is sort of distressing to see these kind of children, maybe even close their toes or anything.

I mean, it's sort of an evaluation.

Most of the time, they just got a bad time at church.

They didn't do any good.

Jesus Christ, I believe, worked our butts off.

She doesn't really need that.

You never saw it.

And they did feel good.

Surely, they were just over well.

The thing that some of us had better received in the White House, they never had better handled.

The thing that annoys her is the...

purely on the invitation side, which she's, you know, and that's the hard side of the party.

She's in charge of it.

Or any social party.

That's the worst part of it.

She's in charge of it.

That bothered her.

Because, and they do, they have a hell of a problem.

And the church thing, she started blaming the guests.

I don't.

To a degree, at least you've got to blame us.

And you.

because of the way we set up the church services to begin with and ran them.

Right.

Which was sort of a thing where, well, I don't know who Kitt's extension is, but it was sort of a thing where it was, you all come, you know, if you'd like to.

And now we're trying to change that, and people don't feel very good now.

You know, I really didn't hear about that, but people, I can pop off, go to church, I don't care.

I mean, you know I've been to a lot of spaces.

I don't know if there's any doubt.

I mean, after you've done it, after they've done it, you're going to find out what it is.

You're going to have to cast it against the church.

What in the name of God could this do?

I mean, on an individual basis.

So you're doing 250 baptists, right?

Or 200 baptists, right?

No, I think we can do...

The problem there is, and what Father Serge said, you have to let people that are invited don't respond.

So you don't know whether they're coming until the last minute.

So you don't know whether to invite other people.

And then at the last minute, people say they can't come.

And you try to get them, and they don't want to.

And they know right when that thing has a problem.

Ironically, people just try to invite you to come at the last minute, if anything, unless they are very close friends, where you can say, look, I'm sure we have some hands on hands.

Would you like to come?

Cold turkey.

I think that's the way.

It'll bother you if they show up, but that's the way to handle it.

staff and administration.

That's what I mean.

Sub-cabinet type people.

Not official men.

Right.

They're not inviting their kids either.

But just call and you don't make any votes about it.

You say, we have some vacancies.

Nobody else would like to come to church.

Not a command.

You're welcome.

And you send us the fillers.

But one of the people who did it told her that she was deciding that we're not going to go through this list of Timmons-sounding names.

And again, actually, they would come.

And I said, Rose, you should, in the first place, you should back down on letting this guy bring his kids.

That's right.

And she said, well, we can give the Timmons on everything else we do.

And I said, we don't give the Timmons on about 90% of what he wants.

But Tim's job here is to advocate all these things.

He's doing the right thing and raising the question just so he's sure he knows the answer.

There's a lot of guys that she probably knows better than I do.

It's a tough damn job.

You know, she takes in there and takes all the security and takes all the breakfast and all the so forth and so on.

But I don't want her to get the surgery.

I probably shouldn't even mention it.

I just thought that somebody had nothing to worry about kids, you know.

So now they have no words.

I wouldn't let him make the exception.

Because Matthias called and said, I can't come.

I can't bring my kid.

He said, fine.

I'm sorry.

Maybe some other Sunday he'd like to come.

And I think he did.

Or you could say, we're going to have one sometime.

We can't this time.

Full house.

I really don't know.

I wouldn't let him bring my kid.

Well, you don't know how that came.

His kids are a little, they're 16.

Maybe they were away at school.

And maybe this is a weekend they're home.

Sure.

And maybe they get an invitation, so they call and say, our kids are home for recess.

And we have to spend Sunday with them.

Maybe we bring them to the White House.

If not, why would we even prefer not to come this week?

Coming back to this panel, I don't want to have to sit down and go over it, congressman by congressman, senator by senator.

Right before the couriers come back on the car, pretending to have a broadside, they, um, spread it out.

I don't know, a wagon or five times, and somebody else sometimes.

I don't know.

I guess it just lives with him.

He's kind of decided, we can't get those people in.

We can't.

They're locked up.

This kind of thing is very worthwhile.

I don't want to quit it.

It's not bad for me, but it may be very worthwhile to them.

And then it gets around to up there, which is bad, too.

You have to change all your orders.

You'll tell them our leaders will not.

Sir?

Well, well, they've got to decide on the leaders.

All right.

Go for it.

I mean, that's a loser.

You agree.

But what the hell do they, I mean, the point is, we don't need to butter up our leaves unless they're going to tell me something that I won't get somebody else to help with it.

Let it come to everybody else.

That's my feeling, yeah.

So let it all come in.

And after a time, they didn't request a meeting.

That's the way I do it.

I told you we shouldn't be meeting.

It's fine.

Then what we're going to do is shift one of those to being a ranking member's meeting instead of a leadership meeting.

I said, we ought to shift one to a ranking member's meeting.

I don't know where you have all the committees.

The military, he

We're set to go ahead on rent if you want to do it.

The negative area, which I'll be sure we consider is, and Scocco's going to talk to Jack first, and I want to move on.

The question is whether he wants to step up to the responsibility.

I guess, but he's the same.

Oh, well, he has a good time.

Only when he's off duty.

And he's very well disciplined when he works.

But if he takes the job, he's got to consider he's really on duty all the time.

You're not on a shift anymore.

You're a luggage artist.

The other problem with that is that in a way, if he takes over the senior job, they'll see less of him.

Because he's got to run the joint.

What will do that is he

Fortunately, we now have the opportunity to put a new, we'll be putting a new Air Force guy in and a new Naval guy in.

And before long, we can't get around them, too.

But at least those two.

And we can get, what we'll do is go on the Air Force, we'll go for a purely administrative type guy, an ORAC, who can go in and just be Brennan's exact track, who can run the joint.

on the terms of logistics on it, which is basically the Air Force job anyway, transportation.

And let Jack be the ceremonial leader.

And in fact, the other guy will be the administrative aide, the Air Force guy, or the Navy guy.

And the Navy guy will fill in and work in shifts on service and all that sort of stuff occasionally.

They'll all have to do that, because it takes a lot of time.

It takes a lot of time.

That's fine.

I can't even go over there.

I just feel more comfortable with it.

I don't want to get acquainted with anybody else right now.

That's part of the problem.

I just don't want to get acquainted with somebody.

I just go around the track.

He's also got to be at the highest level.

He can always feel free to call and say, look, do this, do that.

It's easy with him.

He'll be able to roll about.

Thanks a lot.

Could we, for a while, run in Armstrong into the leadership meetings?

Congressional meetings.

Can we?

Always.

It would be a good idea if she's trying to get a deal with things.

Go on.

I can't.

She can always get by.

Actually, Irwin's using her to do some of this congressional handling and stuff, too.

So it would be good if she sat her down.

Good to have a woman in there.

That's what she's for.

Good.

Excellent.

She'll call her every week.

Sure she will.

The more I think of it and the way things work,

Because it might as well make everything big.

I buy the little things unless it's just one person.

I think you're right.

The only thing is, just like you said, that's why I have a small working dinner.

You might as well go out there and buy what you want.

You have a hundred and get that right.

It takes just as long.

And it takes less of my energy than working dinner.

Really nice.

Ain't the coast of it better than that one.

I worked there.

I got a car around the whole goddamn round table.

Uh, might as well sell it.

Do you know John McAllister at all?

I don't know.

The Brass?

No.

Hardly.

The Brass?

I remember when it was electric, yeah.

Second, he's quite an impressive guy, and a sort of McGregor type.

I think he might take this job.

He's early in his candidate.

He's president of SOS and Chagard Marching.

He presides at that joint breakfast that I did and John did.

Both of us were very impressed with the guy and his loyalty to you, his intelligence.

Should be loyal to him and important for his safety.

Eight.

I mean, seven, eight.

Seven, eight was his year, I think.

Sixty-eight.

I don't remember.

Sixty-eight was the year he won.

He, uh...

I thought he won anyway.

But, uh... John had a feeling he might.

And he might be a hell of a good guy.

The other guy, he was taking him out of the stud ground.

I don't want to think about it.

I don't want to think about this career.

But it really does save yourself a lot of money.

On the child tax, you might be able to make it up to the fund.

A counselor probably would have been better, but probably not as strong.

I don't know.

It's a job that could be in the national fund.

Yeah.

Sure.

I understand.

I don't want to be rubbed on the tax.

Oh, he's not sure.

None of us are sure.

We all are.

We all pretty much...

It's all part of the same thing.

It isn't just the lack of equality, of pure status, which he doesn't have.

He is an AA instead of an AATS.

There is a lot of pizazz.

There's a thing when you get down, we're ramming this battle of the budget fight through in the crest, hey?

Finally had to roar through here, busting China all over the place to get everybody off their ass.

Early in the night, you're sitting in our meeting saying, you know, Dave Parker and the other people are supposed to be handling the strategy on this.

And I said, bullshit.

I don't know what they're talking about.

Those guys don't know.

They're asking for a hot rock on budget strategy.

Now, if you've got speakers you want covered out, you know, this service for a presidential spokesman program or whatever it is, they can find forums for them, and they can work out the train reservations to get them to Pittsburgh in time to make the speech.

But they sure as hell can't decide what they ought to say or who they ought to send it to or what congressman ought to be influenced.

All right.

You're saying, well, then I get to thinking that these four guys, and the Berundi group, and the Dave Barker's, and the Zipper's crew, and all these people are sort of hammering away, trying to do this without any guts.

So I went into their game, and I put it just the other way.

I said, you guys are being conned.

You're letting the big shots tell you that you've got the responsibility for getting this done.

And your buddy's going to give you an assignment without telling you precisely what it is you're supposed to accomplish, and how they're going to know whether you got there if they don't know where you're going.

Because if your responsibility is to make a guy, if it's Ash, or Early, or Mead, or anybody else who's using a assignment, spell out to you what is the, what means success in this and what doesn't.

We go round and round.

Anyway, it's ended up, Ash comes back and says, one guy's got to be responsible for this.

And on the back of the budget, I'd like to try it.

So I said, fine, you try it.

But then it's your ass.

I mean, you're the one that's got to put it together.

And that doesn't mean you can just smile and say, Dave Parker's going to get a lot of speakers out.

You've got to tell them who we got them to.

Well, he and John sort of picked up the cudgel from there.

But then we get to the point of congressional.

That one is a congressional matter.

There's no point sending a speaker out to talk about a lab service district because she is going to come over to us no matter what we do.

And there's no point in sending a speaker out to talk in Jack Timp's district because he is going to leave us no matter what we do.

So the question is, identify the 50 or 100 congressmen that we need to lock up and then let's put the E on that.

But then let's not just do it by sending speakers out.

That may not make any difference.

kept another righteous guy in their kitchen.

That's what I said.

Maybe the guy is owned by a woman, or maybe all you have to do is drink all the water and say, we're having trouble with Congressman Jones.

You better get him shaved off.

Another one may be owned by the coach.

Maybe you call Gene Poggio and say, one of your guys is getting off the traces here, or somebody like that.

Or maybe it's the party organization in some states like Ohio.

Maybe you call or Indiana, and you call the state chairman and say, this congressman's getting loose here.

I don't know if you're on the phone.

Or maybe it's influence in the community.

So then they talked to tenants.

I asked these guys, who are you going to ask?

Who are you talking to?

Well, we've got the target congressman for tenants.

I said, who are they?

Well, he's given us all the Democratic chairmen of the committees.

I said, well, that's a brilliant idea.

We're all chairmen of committees and Democrats.

All you have to do is open a directory and get that.

And he's given us those who are up for election.

I said, well, that's also in the direction.

You get that by finding out when they're turned up.

First of all, congressmen are up for election.

And the senators, you just tell when they came, and six years later, they're up again.

So what?

That's not the point.

The point is, Jack Kent's up for re-election, so the fellow has up with you.

You're going to treat both the same.

And neither of them is .

Well, he understands it, but he doesn't get a hold of it on his own initiative.

So we started by hanging him.

Now we're hitting him.

They've got the list now of the target types, and he's got it on an overall basis, and then he's doing it on a bill-by-bill basis on veto agreements, which is their only way to do it.

But then the question is, okay, that's fine.

Now how do you put the crunch on that guy?

Don't just tell us that Congressman Jones is a problem.

Tell us how you get to Congressman Jones.

Do we buy him off of the court of law?

I mean, is there something he's trying to get now?

Or is there something we've already done for him that we better remind him of?

Or is there a dam that's going to have all the usual game stuff?

Plus, what kind of public pressure will make a difference to him?

Is he a party organization candidate, or is he a renegade who's dependent on public support?

Publishing, financial, and all that.

Well, it's finally going to have a business.

That, he should have come up with that.

That's, he ought to have been sitting there and rambling.

And when you go over it, and you criticize, he says, OK.

I said, you need it.

And, you know, it goes on.

And he then wants to do a good job.

But basically, the problem I have with Bill is something that goes much deeper.

It's a sense of a basically negative, passing personality.

He's not a leader.

That's it.

God damn it.

He's a negative, passing guy.

And a liar.

I mean, he doesn't lie to me, but I know what he does with him.

If I can tell him to live and to die, that's a sin.

And I'm afraid it's a good thing.

I'm afraid that's a bad thing.

I'm afraid that affects the...

That affects attitudes in the home.

That affects attitudes.

I mean, they hear that kind of thing.

Yeah.

So what do they know?

I don't know.

I see Clark didn't do that.

Clark was not charging us.

Just at the end of the wedding.

He said, I'm thinking about this.

Here's what we've got to do.

Can we get some help on this?

I can't get it back.

What would Denton do with that man?

He can't downgrade him, can he?

Now, the other way, you know, he can't be kicked back down.

He ought to go, which he wants to do, anyway.

Yeah.

I'm a little tired about him.

Well, if that's another cop, I would guess he is.

And he's got every right to be tired and terrible, so that he wouldn't wear anybody down.

I know it's not a film.

I know it's not a hit.

I don't think Bill thinks in conceptual terms.

I'm sort of getting the whole thing out.

Now, here's the battle plan.

Everybody gets in front of people.

I'm just to the degree that I believe in that.

Yeah.

They might get in.

They're strong.

He couldn't replace him, though.

I don't think there's a story that's gonna let me say it or anything.

There's a tendency for John and the United Nations, I think, to try to bring back something.

But I think that, I think that Baldwin really could do a hell of a lot more with John early.

And John, he will not deal with that.

Well, he won't.

He likes to, in the first place, he's sort of fallen into a syndrome of regional briefings will cure everything, or road checks, you know.

And then he wants to dump those on someone else.

And I say, well, we've got the road shows going.

He did it with Ed Morgan back years ago.

And he totally flubbed it.

And he's doing it with the amount of .

They can't do that.

I just know that would be the case.

That's really a cop-out.

It's a, let's get out there and see all these people, and they all cheer and so forth.

You get five or six, I mean, Troy's on it, or maybe five or, or maybe three or six, what the hell, there's the name.

I got that bit.

Oh, there's...

Everybody has to work.

Say, no, I've got the social thing.

The right way. .

And they used you to do it, but they kept the veteran stuff held up until after Easter.

And they kept the first one up, and now there's this vocational rehabilitation.

And they, on the basis of nobody they can hold them, they ran a test code on one of them in the house.

And they had 160 .

Yeah, yeah.

But I wonder if that's .

Well, Bill says they'll lose some, of course, on the veto, but they'll pick up some others.

A couple others they'll pick up that they know, and there were some assentees that day that were ours.

What is needed in Bill's case, frankly, is a deep mark of maturity.

It's needed around the White House anyway.

She's good enough.

He's a fight-seeking kind of a guy.

And he's realistic about Washington.

He understands that you don't have to explain to him about the press being the enemy and all that.

He has none of those delusions that Schultz has, you know, about the explaining.

There was something in the news somewhere.

It was a critic, not me, but I think it's correct.

Schultz is spread to death.

I think Chelsea's in too many pies, and I just think he's in oil, he's in monetary, he's in wage crisis, he's running a labor department, a commerce department.

wants to handle the credit bill and the tax bill.

Now, he's too thin where everybody's waiting for him.

We've just got to get him his son.

He did put down trade, tax, monetary, the Russian deal, the deal with the Russians.

You know, he didn't want to get that up.

I wanted to get that to them, but Henry didn't think he could handle it.

That's labor-management relations, Bob.

And basically, Schultz can't do all that.

I didn't want him to come.

He didn't want to come.

He didn't have that energy.

He's got energy, too.

Not all of that energy, but he's got a good part of it.

Energy's got science working on that part of it.

But I really feel the choice is too bad.

And I... Yep?

I do too.

I'm going to go over work in a second.

It's advisable not to be active in some too many things.

You agree?

So let's cut back some time.

In a way, we should have left the people fighting.

But people, it's not right that people are either having it or not using it in that position.

And we don't have it because they don't seem to have it.

So since you didn't have a base, I have a base for sure, and sort of a downgraded status.

But you know what I mean, is I'm thinking of you.

So you put all those down, show her.

And so you can think about this side of me.

And she's a good one.

I'd like to get more and more independent.

The more I see John's role, and this is not bad necessarily, but John's role is more and more turning out to be an advocate's role, rather than, rather than basically a leading subject to code, which is all right, a bunch of subsections, but he's going to be an advocate.

We'll have his parcel out on the way around.

You know, it's an excellent balance.

Which, of course, Pete is not.

Like, for example, I wouldn't have paid in the tax thing.

I don't have a gap in my mind.

Or a trade thing.

Because Pete has got biases.

And he's got an admiration that he would not get.

You know, this isn't capable.

John has no biases.

I said, really?

John has no biases.

John's got to get better focus.

I see he's taking a lot of what Pete was doing and talking to businessmen.

What?

Oh, Christ.

He's got a lot of business.

I asked today where he got his automobile prices.

I don't think John earlier should be having a talk to Townsend.

The rest ain't got a stuff to do.

It's the wrong thing to have an advocate do that.

Oh, gee, God, no.

You see, John, let's leave Pete the business man.

We need them to go.

Got that whole land right now.

Space.

I don't understand why the bit can't handle the death.

That's right.

Well, we have a stronger man.

He's not just a very strong man, Bob.

He's certainly one of theirs.

But he's not very impressive.

They're businessmen.

Nothing else.

He's a pretty good judge of businessmen.

I'm fighting him to death.

He's embracing.

I'm fighting him because of the businessman's guy around here.

They all get the job.

We're in real trouble.

Because they do demand a hell of a lot of time.

I forget that.

I must throw up the coal whenever I possibly can.

I have a, I'm just saying, John's a hell of a property, and I think it shows it, but I think we've got to find a way to direct them to fight the homeless confederate.

Maybe they're going to use that as a warrant.

I must say, I haven't heard a lot of impressions on it.

I just think it's, I don't want her to come to the press conference and all that kind of stuff.

But my aim is in the House, as far as the budget matters concerned, my aim could be

But he must have some leadership people.

They wouldn't have put him ahead of that joint breakfast.

He's head of SOS, as such, is also running the .

Maybe he just rotated around and came out his turn.

Could be.

He's a positive guy.

Intelligent.

Right.

I had to go like, well, I have to see.

I have to meet him.

Maybe do a few receptions.

Big guy.

Always.

Yeah.

Good looking guy.

Very presentable looking.

I don't know what, if you're going to replace a fellow, I mean, you've got to do it with a member.

You do.

Well, where else are you going to find somebody who knows anything about cops?

And you do have to have some basic, unless you're going to have another lobbyist to run us over.

But the lobbyist tendency is to kiss their ass rather than to fight them.

I don't think he did that.

No.

Thank you.

Well, they've been serving us as children.

And I'm convinced of the best man.

They've got the best man for the job.

And he's been considered as a press secretary for the kind of people he works with around the White House.

He's the best man.

And he is much deeper than any others, even in approach.

You know, it's a curious thing.

They were working for Colson's all the time.

Your idea of this being a congressional man is excellent.

He's exactly the kind you need.

Jack Marsh isn't strong enough to do it.

He seems to be very pleasant.

It's got to be one of the costs of the collections.

You've got to pay the price.

You don't really think of it as too very evil then.

You have to give up on what it's costing.

It's cheap.

If there aren't many around, there are each.

There are.

Each in its own way.

That's absolutely correct.

Oh, no, that's indispensable.

We've got to figure it out.

I did not have, I didn't want to say that the cabinet meeting arrested me was good for me to get out and do things.

But I did not have a hell of a lot of confidence in this keeper, uh, setting, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh,

It won't have much, except here and there.

But maybe it's good.

Well, one value it has is it forces them into the battle.

It gets them thinking in terms of fighting the thing.

It gets them out.

Now, of course, on this battle with the Conquers, now, let me say this.

What I did to Rogers and the other guy, we've got a white bird that worked, for example, on the budget battle.

And he's going to take it two days.

I'd be taking an old cab, and I'd say, all right, how are we gonna do it?

Well, I heard her hand in this cab.

I feel that it's outside there.

And Len, who's a hell of an effective guy, I mean, he's, uh, I think he ended up, he pulled him out of that job to be a goddamn good impressionist.

He's not gonna let me.

He wouldn't be because he's bucked down.

I put more emphasis on it.

I think John does, or you do, on it.

And what I call this, cheer everything.

Because I just feel that we had, I'm too accustomed to it, until we got Gregor to do it.

And, well, the president's got to kind of cheer everybody else, cheer everybody up.

And that's the way it should work.

You know, Gregor has to do it here.

That's why he's not that good.

And, uh, it takes a certain kind of personal knowledge to cheer.

Just, just love.

Right.

Yeah.

He doesn't come in, uh, all, uh, you know, full of problems.

You know, he's saying, well, gee, that's great.

Well, that's not so bad.

Yeah.

No hang-up.

Unusual.

But you ought to listen to him in this way.

It's much better if you spend time in Washington, believe me, than going out into the country, speaking at a Rotary Club in Mississauga.

So that's what I get.

The Lynn, the white guys that work at Congress, they work at the grass and they're working.

I don't know whether he would want the bench, but he fortunately is totally free on the market.

There's no question about that.

He does want the bench.

His idea was to go out and

make money for three years, and then hope that he can come back on it.

Fortunately, before you, uh... No, he's given up on it.

Oh, okay.

Sir, I don't know what the hell's here.

You never know.

And this is the white thing, the white thing.

The hell with the money.

He takes the bench, sir.

He, of course, is taking the Supreme Court or something.

No.

He's out of the car.

He couldn't do that.

He couldn't jump in there.

But you could put him on the circuit board.

You know, that's what he did.

You could put him on the circuit board in the district.

The way I would approach it is to bring a man as a consular to the president for congressional elections, or somebody who has some sort of authority.

See, consular authority was not present.

I had the same sort of authority.

So it's a different position.

No, what he wanted to be was counsel to the president, or legislated counsel to the president, or something like that.

So he kept his lawyer title and legislation, rather than congressional relations.

Could you possibly tell us where he is and bring him in as counsel to the president?

Let him run the battle.

No, I don't think so.

He's got to run the office.

He's got to have the office, too, physically.

I don't think he's going to go with that, too.

I think that's the thing.

I'm sure it wasn't going to be a virus thing.

It wasn't going to happen like this.

I mean, I'm part of it, but I expect it to be a very important thing this time of the slide.

My guess is that Steve is bored and doesn't know what he's doing.

He may have thought he just needed the money, he just liked the job.

And he's also very excited to get a raise next year.

I don't think so.

Well, I think he's good at standing up and pushing.

I don't think Bush is the organizer.

I think Bush has never added the rest of it.

And it's one thing he's got to watch is to be there at the time of death, but he gets it all in one day, and this fall, another day, and this fall, another day.

And maybe you'll get more of that commandment again, you know, sitting down.

Well, back when we were running, Dr. Archer was good.

But we bring him along because we need him to get the greater.

He's going to take the goddamn thing and put it in the election.

He's not looking for it.

That's a bitch.

I'm going to say that one thing, and I'm going to have to talk to Dean a little bit more about this.

The one thing about this so-called, this strategy of having some sort of white paper that you want to call it, is to give another open love of other animals, other questions, and give another story.

At least, it says the president is disquieting.

And you see that, it's important.

But let's be clear, I haven't spent my time .

That's the president.

And if the president is saying to the Congress, do you?

I will not, but .

Yeah.

Of course, I do say to provide .

They've been used to think that's really the problem.

All of our people really need to hear that.

You know, the people in the Bible, the people in the conference, our supporters, everybody.

They're saying, oh, God damn it.

That's what it is.

So forth and so on.

How's it going?

Awesome.

So I've been pushing you all along through this.

I think this kind of thing, you just like all these other investigations, but where one thing does lead to another, you're better off trying to jump ahead of it and cut it off in the past, and you aren't just trying to revive while you get evoked in a way that's like that.

But it is a problem.

When you try to figure out where he is, draw a box.

And then the SD, I don't know if anybody's got into you, but then the other thing that I think worries me the most is that you then get into the human factors, and he's playing that.

I'm not going to tell you what happens to the woman, but when the woman has a small possibility,

Well, you keep them bottled up.

On the other side.

One guy gets out.

There's not that many in here.

One guy goes down.

He's got four others with him.

A lady will come down.

And you can tell the people are getting, you can tell he's bitter, of course.

But other people, because he can tell, are getting a lot of those things.

Proof, recent experience, I'm sure.

Second one's not all.

That's the thing.

I'm not making any money.

I just need one of those things.

That was a very limited character.

What if the situation is to let you come up with a concept and of course it's something that we have to be concerned about?

That's one of John's, he's concerned to a degree with Saul.

See, Saul has no idea, as I understand it, if it can cause any harm or really unscrew anybody else.

The only thing would be if he decided to go off

speculation type thing, which of course is a congressional one where there's no rules of evidence and all that.

You can go off and speculate with Magruder.

You can get into a shooting match type of thing between Magruder and so on and stuff.

I don't believe John Peel of that's any real danger.

I think he thinks all that's a job.

We've got to get that done.

John Dean is concerned about not making a case.

Letting the whole thing out is because of where, how Sloan comes out.

Well, how Sloan comes out, or whether Liddy does it.

Liddy creates some problems if he decides to talk.

You've got a hunt balance now, but if you changed the other bench, maybe you wouldn't.

See, Liddy, that's the one problem with the whole Segretti thing, is that at one point, when they chop Segretti off completely,

from whatever he was doing over here, they moved him over to working for Lilly.

And Segretti worked for Michaels.

Segretti worked for Michaels.

He didn't work for anybody, really.

But Segretti was, he was recruited by Chapin.

And he was, actually Chapin said that in his testimony, and he did recruit the guy to do this, to work as an independent operator.

But I really feel that Schultz was too thin.

Yep, going to do the overworking second job.

The advice will not be active in some 20 minutes.

Do you agree?

So let's get Max's parcel around.

In a way, we should have let the people buy the bulk.

It's not right that people are either having the area or not be using it in that position.

And we don't have it because they don't seem to have it.

So since you didn't have a base, I'm sure if there was anybody out in the field, they ought to be coordinated.

So he did have some time for a while, I think, to live in.

And that's how they got him to begin with.

He didn't know what was living.

He said, I'm not supposed to know that.

I don't put his time on once I have any idea.

But that's your danger, is these crazy, cruel, incidental crossroads, the names in someone's phone book.

I suppose all men want to tell them.

It is, huh?

That's what I mean.

It already is.

I suppose it all comes out of mistake.

What dick was the man?

What's living on the side?

The question is, who's Liddy?

Who's Liddy talking to?

I suppose their weak link is the problem with the crew.

Liddy's probably...

I suppose if he's pressed, he would have to say, he would have to say, well, who the hell ordered you to do this?

Who suggested it?

And what's his answer to that?

See, I say, it's his idea alone.

That's what he's saying up to this point, right?

And he might stay with that.

That's what they think he'll do.

That's what he said so far.

So that's that.

So if he breaks over, he can say, well,

that he would bring Bruder in, right?

Could they have had Bruder bring Benjamin?

That's what I, the way I would see the chamber.

Well, Bruder would also bring Goldstein.

And for that matter, Dean.

Dean Zillow.

Of course, that's already out to the Dean Zillow and the recommendability to him to be in.

No, that's a thing that was not a illegal activity.

So how would they help people getting people in there?

That's what people are going to be concerned about.

That's the real problem.

The fact that he would be involved in Watergate, that's a criminal thing.

Segretti is not.

That's the thing, actually.

Colson, the question is whether he knew Watergate and whether he was close enough to it for it to be criminal, you see.

I still don't think Colson did help out the way I did.

I did something that he didn't do.

I made it safe.

We were apparently told other people what I did about it, so.

He has.

But by other people, he's not residing in his testimony.

What was he talking about?

The lawyers.

Somebody that he's been working with there.

He could then be the viewpoint, couldn't he?

Could be.

To some of this chatter.

Yeah, plus he's not super solid emotionally.

He's not a .

He's very self-concerned.

He's an ambitious, people-young guy who is not going to let himself get burned.

But he feels that he has no shakiness himself.

He thinks he did a superb job in the court trial and that he will do a superb job on the animal.

He's looking forward to it.

And he didn't.

Sariva believed him completely.

He told himself afterwards.

so that all this will lead us to the conclusion that it would not be wise to have the white paper.

I don't know.

That leads John to that conclusion.

He knows more than I do, so I'm confused.

I'm not so sure.

Well, we all know that.

It comes with white power.

You have to have it.

It's sort of a downgraded status.

You put all those down on the shoulder.

And so you can think about this stat of being something.

Ash is a good one to talk about.

I'd like to get Ash more and more in the management side.

The more I see John's role, and this is not bad, Mr. Secretary, but John's role is more and more turning out to be an advocate role, rather than basically

The exceptions to coal, which is all right, a bunch of exceptions.

But, uh...

I think we'll go ahead and parcel out on the way around.

John's an excellent development student.

Which, of course, Pete is not.

Like, for example, I wouldn't be in the tax thing, out of the gap of my mind, or trade thing, because Pete has got biases, and he's so goddamn rigid that he would not get, you know, this isn't, this isn't capable of, you know, John has no biases.

That's really what John's about, is he takes no biases.

John's got to get better focus.

I see he's taking a lot of what Pete was doing and talking to business people.

Oh, Christ.

Hey, let me know.

This is him yesterday worrying about his automobile prices.

I don't think John Earl should be having a talk to Townsend.

First of all, that's depressing kind of stuff to do.

It's the wrong thing to have an advocate do that.

Oh, gee, God, no.

You see, John, let's leave Pete in the business.

Really?

Well, we need them about the goddamn whole land right now.

Let's face it.

I don't understand why you have them.

No, didn't.

Can't handle the debt.

Betrayed him.

Plays for, well, we have a stronger man.

He's not just a very strong man, Bob.

He's certainly one of theirs.

But he's not very impressive.

They, they, they, they, a businessman, nothing else is a pretty good judge of a businessman.

Finally, they got him.

Got him, got him, got him.

He's embracing.

I can tell you, he's a good businessman's guy around here.

Because they do demand a hell of a lot of time.

It's a problem.

See, because John also had his gun here, so my coal can't get to him until I get to John.

And I catch myself thinking, ooh, I see him.

I forget.

I must throw up the coal whenever I possibly can.

I have a, I'm just saying, John's a hell of a property, and I think it shows it, but I think we've got to find a way to direct them to fight the homeless confederate.

Maybe we can use Ashmore.

I must say, I haven't heard a lot of impressions on any of the states.

I don't know whether a congressman from Nebraska can understand all that, thank God.

But my aim is in the House, as far as the election battle is concerned.

My aim could...

But he must have some leadership people.

They wouldn't have put him ahead of that joint breakfast.

He's head of SOS, as such, is also running the Chattanooga March meeting things, which is joint meetings.

Maybe he just rotated around and came out his turn.

Could be.

He's a positive guy and intelligent.

Right.

I had to go to my web now to see if he could do for receptions.

Big guy.

Always.

Yeah.

Good looking guy.

Very presentable looking.

I don't know what, if you're going to replace a fellow, I mean, you've got to do it with a member.

You do.

Well, where else are you going to find somebody who knows anything about cops?

And you do have to have some basic, unless you're going to have another lobbyist to run us over.

But the lobbyist tendency is to kiss their ass rather than to fight them.

My grandmother still lives here.

She lives in Washington.

I don't think I've ever seen her.

She's doing well.

I don't think he'd get it back.

No.

Probably a sort of comedic song, but I just want to be patient.

Well, they've been serving us as children.

And I'm convinced of the best man.

They've got the best man for the job.

And he's been considered as a press secretary for the kind of people he works with around the White House.

He's the best man.

And he is much deeper than any others, even in approach.

You know, it's a curious thing.

They've been working with coasts all the time.

Your idea of this being a congressional man is excellent.

He's exactly the kind you need for a team to try to purchase or to satisfy.

Jack Marsh isn't strong enough to do it.

He seems to be a very pleasant person.

That would be one of the costs of any collection is that you're going to pay the price.

But you don't really think of it as too very evil then.

You have to give up on what it's costing.

It's cheap.

There aren't many around there.

There are.

Each in his own way.

There are.

Each in his own way.

That's absolutely correct.

Oh, no, that's indispensable.

We've got to figure it out.

I did not have, I didn't want to say that the cabinet meeting arrested me was good for me, but God did things.

But I did not have a hell of a lot of confidence in this keeper of setting, uh, Sarah Davidson, our assistant, Sarah Jarvis, et cetera, et cetera.

I had a, I had a really, sort of, great, my teeth were tall, and I didn't have a good idea about how important it was.

So I just don't know.

One value it has is it forces them into the battle.

Gets them thinking in terms of fighting the thing.

It gets them out.

Now of course on this battle with the Congress, now let me say this, what I did to Rogers

The other guy, we've got a white herder who worked, for example, on the budget battle.

And he's got to take it two names.

Is the virus going to take over?

I'd be taking on a whole cast on this.

I don't know how we're going to do it.

White herder, analyst.

You know, that's outside their base.

And Len, who's a hell of an effective guy.

I mean, he's a...

I think we ended up, if we pulled him out of that job, it would be a goddamn good progression.

He's not going to get it.

He wouldn't be, because he's bucked down.

I feel more interested in it.

I think John does, or you do, on what I call this cheerier thing.

Because I just feel that we had two of us that were there until we got Greger to it.

And well, the president's got to kind of cheer everybody else, cheer everybody up.

And that's the way it should work.

You know, Greger has cheated here.

That's why he's not that good.

It takes a certain kind of personal knowledge that you just, you just love.

Right.

Yeah.

He doesn't come in, uh, all, uh, you know, full of problems.

You know, he's saying, wow, gee, and that's great.

Well, that's not so bad.

You know.

No hang-ups.

Not usual.

But you ought to, you ought to listen to him in this fight.

He's much better at spending time in Washington than he is going out in the country speaking to the Rotary Club of Mississippi.

That's what I get.

Lynn, my wife, the guys that work that conversation, they work better than I do.

I guess you could.

We couldn't.

I don't know whether he would want the bench, but he, fortunately, is totally free on the market.

There's no question about that.

He does want the bench.

His idea was to go out

make money for three years and then hope that he can come back on it fortunately before you uh

Sir, I'll come out of here.

You never know.

And this is it.

A white thing.

The hell with the money.

He takes advantage of it.

He, of course, is thinking Supreme Court or something.

No.

He's out of the car.

He couldn't do that.

He couldn't jump in there.

But you can put him on the circuit board.

He's on the circuit.

You can put him on the circuit board in the district court.

The way I would approach it would be to bring him in as a consular to the president for congressional elections.

The consular authority was not present.

I had the sense I wanted to be.

So it's a different position.

No, what he wanted to be was counsel to the president, or legislated counsel to the president, or something like that.

So he kept his lawyer title, and legislation, rather than congressional relations.

Is it possible to leave Dennis where he is and bring him in as counsel to the president?

Let him run the battle.

No, I don't think so.

He's got to run the office.

He's got to have the office to do it physically.

I don't think he's going to go with that, do you?

I think that I'm going to have to make sure that those parents and fathers think of us with an action like this.

I mean, I'm not part of it, but I understand it could be a very important thing this time.

That's fine.

My guess is that Steve is bored and doubtful about what he's doing.

He may have thought he doesn't need the money.

He just likes the job.

And he's also very excited to get a raise next year.

I don't .

I don't think Bush is the .

Because I think Bush has never added the rest of it.

And that's one thing he's got to watch is to be never dying to death.

But he gets it all on schedule one day, and this fall, another day, and this fall, another day.

I mean, that's it.

Just remember, he's got nothing else to do.

What are you going to do?

I mean, he could be doing the kid in his brain.

He could be doing it instead of you doing it.

I don't sense that George is a minor, strategic commander, basically, as a part of leadership.

But I think he's fine from our standpoint.

He does exactly what we need.

And maybe he'll get more of that command and then, you know, sit it down.

He's been a great example of himself.

So I know he must have a faith of two.

He has contact with all the crimes.

I see him all the time.

He gets his memorandums out soon.

And so forth and so on.

Actually, we had contact before.

I just didn't have as much.

We were on board.

It's a different kind of guy.

He's negative.

He always had a problem.

So he had contact with me.

Well, after we were running, too.

After Archie was good.

But we bring him in a lot.

We just needed to get him a greater.

even to take the goddamn thing to the election.

So I look forward to that as a bench.

I'm going to say that one thing, and I'm going to have to talk to Dave a little bit more about this.

One thing about this so-called, this strategy of having some sort of white paper that you want to call it, is to give another open club of other evidence, other questions, and give another story.

At least, it says the President has this law for him.

And I get a mind that says, if you see that, it's important.

But let's be clear here.

I have to spend my time .

That's the President.

And the President is saying to the Congress through you, I will not let you testify.

Yeah.

Of course, I do say to provide .

They've been used to think that's really the problem.

All of our people really need to hear that.

You know, the people in the Bible, the people in the conference, our supporters, everybody.

They're saying, oh, God damn it.

That's what it is.

So forth and so on.

How's it going?

Awesome.

So I've been pushing you all along through this.

I think this kind of thing, you just like all these other investigations, but where one thing does lead to another, you're better off trying to jump ahead of it and cut it off in the past, and you aren't just hiding by while you get evoked in a way that's like that.

But it is a problem.

When you try to figure out where he is, draw a box.

And then the SD, I don't know if anybody's got into you, but then the other thing that I think worries me the most is that you then get into the human factors, and he's playing that.

I'm not going to tell you what happens to the woman, but when the woman has a small possibility,

Well, you keep them bottled up.

On the other side, if one guy gets out, there's not that many in here.

Or if one guy goes down, he's got four others with him.

The other people go down.

Okay.

And you can tell the people are getting 70 spirit points, but other people are getting 11 points.

Who is getting the spirit?

Seven, I don't know.

That's the thing.

I don't know.

That was, that was a little dirty.

Limited character.

Right.

What if the situation is to let you come up with a concept, or something that you may have to be concerned about?

That's one of John's...

He's concerned to a degree that Swell... See, Swell doesn't know anything.

As I understand it, it didn't cause any harm or really unscrew anybody else.

The only thing would be if he decided to go off and...

speculation type thing, which of course is very aggressive when there's no rules of evidence and all that.

You can go off and speculate with Magruder.

You can get into a shooting match type of thing between Magruder and so on and stuff.

I don't believe John Peel does any real danger.

I think he thinks all that's a job.

We've got to get that done.

But that's why he's...

John Dean is concerned about not making a case.

Letting the whole thing out is because of where, how Sloan comes out.

Well, how Sloan comes out, or whether Liddy does it.

Liddy creates some problems if he decides to talk.

You've got a hunt balance now, but if you changed the other bench, maybe you wouldn't.

See, Liddy, that's the one problem with old Segretti.

At one point, when they chopped Segretti off completely,

from whatever he was doing over here, they moved him over to working for Lilly.

And Segretti worked for the White House.

Segretti worked for the White House.

He didn't work for anybody, really.

But Segretti was, he was recruited by Chapin.

And he was, actually Chapin said that in his testimony, and he did recruit the guy to do this, to work as an independent operator.

He did put a compound construction into the band.

But then he was operating independently doing this stuff, and his lines crossed with Liddy who was doing things, and that created a big flap at some point.

From which time Mitchell decided that it all should be put under Liddy, everything that was being done.

If there was anybody out in the field, they ought to be coordinated.

So he did have some tie for a while, I think, to Liddy.

And that's how they got him to begin with.

He would know it was a living.

He said, I'll put his time on once I have any idea.

That's your danger, is these crazy little incidental crossroads, the names in someone's phone book.

And so I suppose all we're going to tell them.

It is, huh?

That's what I mean.

It already is.

Suppose it all comes out of a mistake.

What's the living else saying?

I don't know.

The question is, who's Liddy, who's Liddy talking to?

I suppose their weak link is the problem with the recruiter.

Liddy's probably

I suppose if he's pressed, he would have to say, they're going to say, well, who the hell ordered you to do this?

Who suggested it?

And what's his answer to that?

He's going to say, it's his idea alone.

That's what he's saying up to this point, right?

He might stay with that.

That's what they've been doing.

That's what he said so far.

So that's that.

So if he breaks over, he can say, well,

That he would bring Bruder in, right?

Could be.

That Bruder would bring him in.

That's right.

That's what I, the way I would see the chamber.

Well, Bruder would also bring Colson in.

And for that matter, Dean.

Dean's in on it.

Of course, that's already out too.

Dean's in on the recommendability to him to be in on it.

I know, I know, I know.

Not on the Watergate.

No.

That's an illegal activity.

So how?

Who the hell would be getting people in there?

That's what people are going to be concerned about.

That's the real problem.

The fact that he would be involved in the Watergate, that's a criminal thing.

Cicretti is not.

That's the thing, actually.

Colson.

The question is whether he knew Watergate.

And whether he was close enough to it for it to be criminal, you see.

It isn't.

Now, everybody makes close-ups.

I still don't.

I still don't make close-ups.

I didn't know how to watch it.

I did some.

I mean, that needed to be really good.

All right.

Because I made the statement.

Yes.

I mean, we were apparently told other people what I did about it, so.

He has.

And, uh, but, but, by other people, he's, I reside in his testimony.

What was he talking about?

Me.

There, you know, the lawyers.

Somebody that he's been working with there.

He could then be the, be the viewpoint, couldn't he?

Could be.

To some of this chatter.

Yeah, plus he's not super solid emotionally.

He's not a .

He's very self-concerned.

He's an ambitious, feeble young guy who is not going to let himself get burned if he can help him.

But he feels that he has no shakiness himself.

He thinks he did a superb job in the court trial and that he will do a superb job on the handle.

He's looking forward to it.

And he didn't.

Sir Reba believed him completely.

He told himself afterwards.

So that, all this will lead us to the conclusion that it would not be wise to have the white paper.

I don't know.

That leads John to that conclusion.

That was one that I knew, so I...

I'm not so sure that... Well, we have a...

There comes a point, Bob, where you have to...

Thank you.