Conversation 884-023

Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Hi, how are you?

I'm good, how are you?

I'd like to sit down and have you sign two nominations here before the W turn.

Sit down, sit down.

Thank you, sir.

You have a beautiful bright room.

Yes, sir.

Are you OK?

All right, Mr. President.

We're going to start.

It's not a struggle.

You're going to start your, uh, situations that are, uh, I understand, sad and deafening, right?

Uh, as of this moment, I would say yes.

Yeah.

And, uh, I have not yet.

Oh.

I'm going to do it tomorrow.

Well, you've got to announce tomorrow.

Yes, sir.

And, uh, I think it's like, yeah, every other situation.

Um, uh, it will be, uh, the last that's on the party, I think.

And, uh, it will be.

Did you have a friend who ran for it?

Uh, I did.

And I think that's one of the reasons for this.

Who was it?

Charlie.

And that, of course, is his third time.

Yeah.

And, uh...

He also ran for his case, wasn't he?

No.

No, he threatened to do that.

He always does.

No, no.

And, uh, Buddy is his third new editorial primary.

And, uh, you know, even though as well as I do, perhaps better than 50, they're scarce.

And, you know, it can be avoided aside from the cost that's involved.

I think from the standpoint of the party, uh, it would be the most desirable time.

This relates to our conversation before, Mr. Vice President.

Yeah, sure.

We want to keep these guys with God, and we need some more.

I think he went through a period there when he was wondering.

He really was wondering.

But, uh, John Muggs, Jack Williams, Rockefeller, Sheryl Ruggs, got on the phone with his own kind of thing.

We were here with all the common candidates.

We all did everything we can to get our best candidate.

And we would appreciate your help in any way that you can give to try to get them another way to force them to, or at least .

Well, the president has to get close to yours, Mike.

I don't know what he can do.

He has to get .

Well, I talked to him, and that was before, well, it was after you and I talked, right?

And he said, look, I was visiting with Charlie, and I did, and...

The problem, Bill, is that he just has made his mind up.

And I discussed with him the very thing the governor brought up, voting for the president of the United States.

He said he was very interested, but he wanted to avoid fights where possible and all that.

And Charlie says, well, I'm not just committed.

So an effort was made, and I know him well.

I went into the Congress at the same time.

And this was, you know, as you know, he's a pretty hard-headed fellow.

And part of the problem, of course, is that he just

There's something personal, I don't know whether to go ahead or not, to talk frankly.

It's more of a David Perkins thing that makes it...

In other words, it's not the situation... Bill, it's not a situation where I can say, well, invoking the president, saying, look, Charlie, is there something else you'd like to do?

I mean, I can say it, but he's sold on his view.

Normally, we've tried on a couple of others.

Sure, to say, you know...

But I don't know what the hell he wants to do.

Well, I don't know either.

What do you think?

Well, I think he might be... Well, I'll go up there again and... Well, let me put it this way.

He's a lawyer, right?

Yes, sir.

What's his age?

Charlie's about 48, 49, when you said Bill, 50.

That's right.

Yeah, because of the size.

I don't think so.

Now, that's our...

He's ambitious.

He wanted to run against the kids.

And at that time, we were in close contact with John Mitchell.

And John wanted to avoid any problems out there at that time.

And I was able to put out some fires at that time that were generating against Cliff Case.

You did a great job.

There were a lot of flyers.

Yeah, never with Brian.

You know what happened?

In that primary, he had nobody.

Nobody ever heard of him.

So he got a free run.

No, no.

This nobody had 35% of the votes.

Oh, in that primary.

That showed you what would have happened.

That's right.

You know, Harry Sears, and a few other fellows like that, and Ray Bateman, you know, some really good candidates.

You know, it was a presidential year.

Here's the way I feel about it, very frankly, and I'll say this to you in all honesty, President of the United States, it's still capable today, as the governor of New Jersey, not to run.

I wouldn't run.

I wouldn't run because I would say to myself,

This is going to be a very divisive progress.

I said that the win on the way over, look, I'm going to run.

And I'm satisfied that I can win.

And if I do, you can bet you about a dollar that I'll try and not stand out the next time in a primary for Congress.

What's his district now?

And he's got a district that's very Republican, which we gave him in a redistricting.

We had a chance to do a lot of things there, and we didn't know he played a square job.

I went to the county chairman about a year ago.

He was knocking us around publicly, and I told him that if we continued, we were going to run against him this past time, and they stopped me.

Charlie doesn't know anything but power.

And what I'm saying, in effect, is if we get involved in this thing, it's going to be pretty divisive, and we may have some congressional fights in the future.

And you've got to understand the facts of life, George.

I think he has to understand them.

Well, Stuart, let me put it to you this way.

I always

known to others but to myself, that no one, George Bush, Bill Cahill, can call nobody, in my opinion, can talk the same, in many matters.

Only one man can talk, in my opinion.

And I'm not suggesting that, you know, that the President wants to do that, but it seems to me, it seems to me that that's the only way he can talk.

And I tell him, well, I could give him the alternative again.

And the alternative, of course, would be that

If you thought that you would give him a word, you were going to support him.

What's the next Senate race?

The next Senate race is Pete Williams, and that's not for another Senate race.

That's not for another Senate race.

That's not.

There is really not.

Is he slugging at you again after that front page story at the Times?

Oh, sure.

Because I'm so concerned about that .

Well, sure.

George, I really try to understand this, and I think I can a little bit.

He campaigned for the government of New Jersey really for eight solid years, eight solid years, not even dead.

And I came in and stole his bride at the altar.

And I just think that he's been unforgiving.

And because I won by as many as I did, and I think he always felt that he would have been the governor of New Jersey.

I don't believe that myself.

It's strange, but I don't believe it.

No, sir.

I don't.

I just, I don't know whether you follow the stories that are in the papers.

They're nailed them right now.

And I don't think Charles Samuel had won this victory in New Jersey.

But that's another story.

You know, they're dealing with a very unfortunate statement that was made down here at the Senate hearing.

I don't know if you saw the cartoons that appeared and all that.

The point I'm making is that Charlie keeps running, but, you know, this is, as I say, his third time around.

I just think myself that

We can win, but it'll be divisive, and it'll be expensive, and it'll leave some more scars.

One good thing with the president is the Democrats in the building might not agree, but they don't seem to be focused in on a central, strong candidate.

Maybe that's attesting to your being the other and stuff, but there isn't.

Isn't that right?

That's right.

But what they're proposing, though, as I gather it, they're thinking it.

As you say, the three or four strong candidates were Trump's, Jim Howard,

and Roe were the three that were thinking of running, plus a couple of members of the judiciary who were outstanding for thinking about leading the judiciary to run.

They all turned it down.

But I think what the Democrats will do, because they are a strong candidate, they're talking about filing someone in general as an unknown sort of, so that in the event Charlie is the successful candidate, they can then come up with a quality candidate

run who would generate both support from the Democrats and the Republicans.

You know, a la Ladner in New York, where they would get support from both parties.

And this is a possibility.

You know, we've heard this.

When is the final date?

The final date is the 28th, Mr. President.

That's the first or last day?

That's the final day for filing.

Wait, which month?

April or April.

What's the first day of filing then?

I'm trying to think of what the line is.

We'll certify him as Secretary of State.

We have machinery already.

We've got one.

I think we'll be in pretty good shape when it gets back to the other problems.

But I really think that you're right, George.

He's not going to listen to you.

We got out there.

The president's ought to come.

And we got out there before he had solidified his position.

And I talked to Linda, and I talked about it.

trying to do something.

And that's it.

And now he didn't come down here and try to twist his arm or anything else.

But he, you know, I made clear I was thinking of the overall party that had been discussing the White House and this thing.

And he's just locked in, Bill.

I mean, so that may need to change.

We can discuss that later on here.

But the president is failing, I think, appropriately.

Oh, Suzanne, I got your message.

Right.

And I'll talk to you later on.

Okay.

The situation, we talked to George and see whether things are available here.

To be honest speaking, I do not favor running people who ask me comments.

I'm not so senile.

That's a very true point.

As some of our... we should have run them.

I think several comments last time, they were a hell of a lot better off.

We better give them a loss of three or four seats.

Believe it or not, but there's a reason why I'm that old.

I mean, because I'm just tired of some of our guys.

Right.

That's fair.

Well, one of his friends really, and I think they are his friends, have tried to point out to Charlie that, you know, there's another time.

I know four or five of his good friends have said to little Charlie, wait, wait, you know, 40 years from now, it'll be 100% freedom.

But if you wouldn't, you don't have to say it.

Oh, you can't.

You can't.

Well, you know, I really was, of course, you know, I have some personal situations that encouraged me not to run, of course, and it was only because certain things came up that I just felt I couldn't walk away from them, and I wanted to stay there and defend, and I decided to go again, and I see Lynn, of course, and a lot of the boys, and

in the Republican government office who encouraged me to do it and offered to come in and be helpful.

And I'm, modestly, I really feel that we're comfortably located.

We're in Republican party with the chairman, and we can win in the general.

But I think that you say, George, there's very little opposition, as I see now, in the Democratic party.

I really think that's true.

That's what I think.

If Sam and Miki ability meant

I think, I think that it depends.

Realistically, I would say with the quality of the Democrat nominees as it presently exists, yes, he could have a chance to win.

Because really, as I would go to the field, they're really inferior.

I don't see anyone here that is so attractive that, you know, I feel he would.

It would depend a lot on the circumstances and the facts and, you know, all that.

Now, if the other thing happened, if the other thing weren't happening, it would be my guess that a quality candidate would be acceptable to both Republicans and Democrats.

An independent citizen could win and could elect Charlie, if it were the right man.

Senator Brendan Byrne, I don't know if you know him or not, is a very important judge in the church, a very attractive man.

And there are people like that.

They can get on the ballot.

Yes, they can file, you see, for the November election.

It runs in independent now.

They will not run in primary.

We have a way of getting on the general ballot in November as long as they don't participate in the primary.

And they're thinking this is going to be here.

What about Charles Collins and House?

Well, four of them.

Peter Frelinghuysen.

I have Ronald Marazzini and Ed Forsythe have already drawn in favor of me publicly.

They issued a statement and it was in the Sunday papers.

Bill Whittemaw has decided at the moment at least to remain neutral, and apparently Hunt has decided to remain neutral.

My guess is that in the long run, Whittemaw will support me and Hunt will support Sandman, but I don't think either of them will do it openly.

So there's four of them that have already come out publicly.

And we all have basically, I really think we call them legislators who are the incumbents who will almost support

I think the reason for it, too, Mr. President, again, it's not that they like me personally that much.

I don't mean that much.

But in a general election, you know, I have had the ability to attract the independent voters, which I'm down for, and support in a general election in New Jersey, and that's very important.

Do you want to play it for me?

Yes, I would think so.

One of the problems, Mr. President, in this whole thing is that Cliff White is worth a percent, and he's a very able political operator, and he's, this is, I don't know if I told you this, but you know what I think, right?

I think I did a message to you that way.

Cliff White is, you know, this is what I encounter, right?

There's substantial funding behind this, which may be one of the third reasons why Cliff is involved.

And thus gambling has become a real issue.

As you say, the rest of New Jersey, there's a big effort on the part of the Seashore counties.

I got the message.

You know, legitimate money is not a problem.

We've got some people to be aware of and some people to be totally aware of.

The problem with John is that the fact that he's getting into one and then having to get into the other.

His son and I are going to have a bench up there in California.

We've got Rumsfeld, who probably only wants to run for the Sun.

And he's now going to make up his mind for sure.

There's John Anderson.

He's going to have one of them on the run.

And I thought, you know, I hope John knows that if Robbie doesn't, you know, he keeps playing the handball back, John will run and we'll back him all the way.

Yeah.

I told him that you felt that way about the primary, and that's about it.

He knows that now.

What's he going to do?

Well, no.

I said, listen, the president's interested, but he'd like to see this thing worked out without a fight between you two, and can't you sit down and try to work it out?

That's what he said he'd do.

In the case of...

I hold a picture of this person pretty well.

What can be done with Charlie is, I just don't know.

Let me just say, why don't you, why don't we, why don't we have it this way?

We're more than one separate skin.

Fortunately, the primaries of June, first week of June, that means you're in April and May, two months.

I'm supposed to, if you don't succeed,

and can be rugged in the sense of what is said that we would like to forget afterwards.

My only view is that you've got to stay miles away, obviously.

Whatever happens, in his case, miles away from him, he doesn't exist.

Just remember, you have to keep moving your way.

He just doesn't exist.

Don't answer.

Nothing.

I can feel that.

And, you know, as I said, they start getting this crap, you know, thrown around,

I mean, everybody, you've always got people who do stupid things.

You've got some administration, you've got some...

Right.

And the thing to do is to just stay right along and so forth.

But if you can...

In other words, in a capable position, you're just running for re-licensed governor.

You're not running for re-nomination.

That's right.

You stay right there.

And the second thing I can say as far as your race is concerned,

I can't see that state attorney.

Once you are, we'll give you all the help here we can.

If it is what you'll feel the last time it came up.

Yes, sir.

It was a good time.

Yes, sir.

It may not be this time, but it may as well be.

But you can count on it.

Yes, sir.

Count on it for your race.

Which also could have, I'm speaking now of the possibility that we've done work with sand.

If it doesn't, then we will need a healing situation.

And then I can provide that.

It seems to me, because I would imagine a lot of Sandman's right-wingers are probably referring to being hand-bagged, particularly.

And I'm fighting down that road with a broad, strong, KO support.

I think that's what kind of just screwed up over there.

I'm just trying to think of a way to end it.

I would prefer not to have it be that way.

I would prefer to get to Santa Ana.

I mean, we just have this understanding.

Well, the main point is, the main point is we want to see

Well, thank you, ma'am.

So the second point is, you can see how I'm getting involved publicly in the crime for reasons that I know that there are cases that I've been involved in a lot of others.

Let's see what we can do in other ways.

All right.

I appreciate it.

Well, here we go.

As I say, we're very grateful if you're sufficiently interested.

And, well, if you want to listen to me, why not do it?

The other thing I want to say to you, too, is because everybody wants to talk about the various things you should do, I think you should educate them about the key to farming in your plants.

They know you can come in and talk about this.

Just the weather, one of the things.

And I think you might say that we've talked about various state problems and so forth.

I can't go to the domestic council.

I understand, too, you're concerned about the food rights thing.

You can say I expressed an armistice.

I took the floor.

We're working on the imports.

We're working on the supply side.

The imports, the increase in supply, how certain actions, executive actions, can be effective.

I consider it the highest priority.

Let me tell you the purposes of your election most importantly.

We don't want to do anything right now.

You'll have a lot of your friends around in the New York area who've never been able to ask the first person about what they're doing when they're home.

They're rotting.

It all does.

Rockheads are coming from Wall Street, and that's why they all are.

The point is, what they'll tell you right now is to freeze food prices at the retail level and the fire level.

It's not the easiest thing to do.

It's tempting.

Tell you what they're going to do.

particularly affect your election this year.

If you freeze it now, it'll work in about 60 days or 90 days.

And then the pressures are going to be enormous because the goddamn farmers, you know, they're starting to freeze it.

and the stuff doesn't come there, and they'll wait until the freeze goes off or something in that case.

But whatever the case might be, the consequences, in my view, at least this is the present price I get, would hit September, October, November, this year and next year.

We don't want that to happen.

On the other hand, if we work, continue to work, take the heat now, we will have bad numbers in CPI for two, three months, at least three months.

We'll have a bad number this month, we'll have a bad number next month, we'll have a bad number the next month.

But if we can then get the thing evened off, say, in July, that would be fine.

In fact, we discussed it now.

It would mean that when it comes up in September and October, it will not be an issue that will hurt you.

It will be an issue that will be available.

for you as the governor to say, you can't have to express it.

and so forth, and I said, I understood.

I totally share their concern.

We're doing everything we can, but we want to be sure that we don't do something that makes the problem worse or require a ration of a lot of other things.

And we don't think that there's going to be a release.

That puts you in a bad place.

I say, what do you want?

Don't talk.

Well, it's going to be a job.

It should be awesome, but it'll be

well before your election, in our opinion, doing as much as anybody can ever judge an economy as big as ours.

If you could be sure to wear it, or wear any other things, too, it would be useful.

I think the most important thing that I had to give, and be very hopeful, Kenneth, were you going to help him.

There are ways that we can help fall without getting out.

If we have to go through the primary thing, if you don't want to get in a position where you see where I am, to in fact say, I endorse this man in a primary, which puts it to me in writing.

There's a reason for that.

We've got to snag it, really.

Yeah.

You come in here.

You're going to snag it.

You should hear Ronald Reagan.

Yeah, yeah.

Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

You can come in here.

If you can come in here.

What I want you to do is do this.

I want you to do the little gesture of struggling.

Here's

Okay.

In other words, between now and then, the fact that you have good connections here, you will always be here, this is very subtle in your head.

It's very subtle.

So we'll do that.

Right.

And you can feel that.

Now, is that... Oh, Mr. President, more than generous.

The fact that you even gave me your ear,

No, I would do, I would, I don't really, I, if we had a party, if we had more of the, we had the, if we didn't have this problem in some other places that are very close to me.

I, I really do.

I go to California, I understand that you do for one of the other states.

And Illinois.

Generally speaking, we don't have the luxury of having more than one candidate.

Usually we haven't even got one candidate.

There's more than one on hand.

But you, I think you, my guess is that you're with the primary and certainly, well, let me put it this way.

You're in a position somewhat different case.

You've always, he's got the first case, basically.

If he could get the Democratic nomination, he would always be essential.

He's an ideal position.

He gets Republican by default.

Well, the day they ran, the day they ran a real tough candidate against Casey, the day they ran the last time, they had beaten Kushner in a frantic way.

Maybe he lost the final.

Maybe.

But maybe not in 72.

No, a good man would have won in 72, just with the kind of goals we've got.

That's what I'm asking you and others.

up there, but we didn't have them.

But the point is, in your case, you do have that appeal in the Senate, and so I'm keenly aware of it.

And I think that what we will do, and we must do, is if you can keep me out of it in terms of endorsements, that was my spot on advice, I may just see what we can do in other ways.

Let us, we will help you through our good offices here, so that you're as well-known as Katie Ellis.

I asked the question, how would you like me to respond to the question of what did the President say when he informed you of Canada?

What would you like me to say?

I didn't even say that you could say this.

I considered the off year

and the other state where we've done this, that it's been a very, very important election.

I think it's very important that if we win, that at the present time, that the possibility for primary, that I'm not going to take any position on that, but that I, that I, that, I mean, let's see if we can get that done.

I think what you could say is that, uh, that I, uh, I mean, I said that I, uh, that while I could not

Well, it's the policy.

Well, it has to be my policy of not taking the position of getting primary at this point.

And I felt that yours was one of the major victories, and I think, you know, a very good season to observe the distinction as governor.

And I...

I...

See, you don't want to build a fire now.

I don't want to say anything that you don't want me to say.

I didn't know.

Here's what I don't know.

Here's what I don't want.

I don't want to get something for salmon.

I don't need the time.

That's what I'm trying to avoid.

I don't want salmon.

I'm going to say, look, I'm going to...

Now, I'll say that I think maybe a better way to say who formed the government.

He said, well, that he said that he was the

I appreciate the fine service that you've been rendered as governor.

And also, you're handling this campaign.

He's going to have to follow the usual practices of not getting involved in a primary.

And, of course, he'll be following the choosing of the ownership very, very closely in terms of how it turns out in the end.

You could go as far as you need to without remembering, and you don't want to put us in a position to stand up and say that.

How do you suggest?

Well, I would... By the way, I'll accept whatever you...

I would probably... What would you like to say?

Well, what I'd like to say is that I informed you...

and that we had a very friendly meeting, and that, as always, you were complimentary as far as my stewardship as governor.

You can say that I spoke very highly of your record as governor and also expressed appreciation

Well, for the work I've done for your chairmanship of our campaign in New Jersey, that's all I'd say.

I'd say that.

That's correct.

I'd say those two things.

Those two things.

And then if they say the president ought to be participating, I would say no.

Not on the front.

No, that's not on the front.

But you should say this, an evil survey of the president wants to be hopeful in the final, you know, in the general general.

I think you should say that.

That's correct.

I don't really want to put you in any embarrassing position at all, you know, with any person, but I know once they know that I'm here, that this question will be answered.

We're going to the press conference tomorrow, so help us out.

Bill, it's not, it's not, it's not as, as Donald, you've also talked about the problems in the U.S.

Yes, yes, my domestic counsel, the executive secretary was there at my request, and I called him, and he might say, and then they went over several problems, and the virus would be very helpful in working with some of those problems, and transition, and all that kind of stuff.

i will try and i just trust us and charlie supported the president and you know if it comes out wrong i mean it's so close that he doesn't know that he has that big of a problem and i i think i should be the negative this year but just so we don't lose him a couple of real key things we got coming

You're going to have to understand that one of the things we're really going to find, Charlie Sandlin, in New Jersey, is his vote against revenue sharing.

Okay, well, that's fine.

I got it.

Don't get me to go, don't you say that word.

No, no, no, not, you know, revenue sharing, you know, has been so helpful for the state of New Jersey.

Oh, tremendously helpful.

I just said these expressions of appreciation so that we don't get into the position of saying anything that can't be said.

Oh, no, I don't know.

I really didn't.

I didn't say anything.

I shared it with the president.

Well, I certainly won't.

You said the president, you said, Mike said the president, he's, is he going to get involved in the campaign and so forth?

Well, he's going to follow what you do in practice and not...

If you just say that.

I think if I just say all the positive things that you want me to say, then I'll say it.

That's good.

I shall.

I think I just limit myself to your, if I may, your warning marks about the stewardship.

And your leadership.

And also the... Fair enough.

The, uh... That's right.

Don't break your words.

No, no.

I'm going to try to sneak back into Virginia without knowing what I'm hearing.

Yeah.

No, they didn't know we were bailing.

We didn't want to get in trouble.

It's all right.

It comes on.

And if you get back.

He can do it in a few minutes with this announcement tomorrow, but I can stay out of it.

That would be a question.

After the announcement, Mr. President, we'll come up with some further initiative.

You want me to take the trial here anymore?

Yeah, I'll try.

Let me see.

Let me just see what we can do.

You can only do what you can do.

I understand that.

People get their bit.

I know.

I really do.

We've got people liking it.

And some of them only take a bit.

That's it.

I understand.

I really do.

You don't promise to.

I promise to.

I'm going to decide now.

I don't know what I'm going to do.

He doesn't.

He's got to get on his butt and go.

We just want our guys to win.

Yes, good.

That's great.

You know, that could mean something to the house.

It's not sad.

No, he won't.

Well, it's a wrong issue, Bart, if you're talking to him.

Whitehorse is first to embark on it.

That's a defense for him.

Now, Whitehorse comes out for, I'm really amazed that he did, because I'm an understanding guy.

He came out on it.

for a basically a moratorium on spending for our for trident and our other programs uh pending negotiations with the soviet well that is

Well, it's not easy.

I mean, you can't have a person go and negotiate with the president and say, and have the Senate Congress say, look, we aren't going to approve your funds pending negotiation.

The only way you get that's out of what you're doing is hitting him over the head with an ax and to say, look, either you do this or we're going to do that.

So you see why there should not be on the unilateral disarmament side.

A good and tough hawk would kill him on that.

And frankly, I'll have to take it home.

He was the leader.

He was the spokesman.

And actually, they used him, these people.

Why there's basically a guy who did great, well, I wonder, but he shouldn't get off on that.

Because everybody wants to cut the fence.

But don't cut.

Tell the other guy, that's what we're going to negotiate with.

Don't cut him.

That's all we're trying to say.

Well, it's hard to take it very much.

You know, it's hard to move.

But, uh, even as late as 10.30, Michael, for your conference.

And George's friend, Ted Coleman, it's true.

He's trying to get John Dalton off of that ticket for lieutenant governor.

He's got to go to such a repulsing party all day.

Who's one?

Marty, the guy.

He's the one that got arrested as lieutenant governor.

One of her.

more traditional republicans he's been in the house for 10 years if you get two of them

Just the same guy.

They represent the same thing.

Now, Dalton is not liberal.

He's not even moderate.

He's conservative too, but he represents it.

That's pretty funny.

You know, Stetson's the business team.

He's a great guy.

Look, I know Stetson.

Don't let him get to the top now.

God damn it, he's really got to stick.

If the deal has been made, who the hell cares?

That's right.

Who the hell cares?

It's just the governor.

The president might be around.

I'll just show you.

I can't myself.

Well, I will worry about it.

Incidentally, no.

You get the bar.

Well, this one, I'm sorry.

I think it's worked out all right.

The mayor, here's what he had on Markey.

I talked to him.

He called me yesterday.

He said, Markey's playing tough.

the beginning layer to be the,

Alex Rose, the man, and the Republican man.

Rocky's having trouble with some of his leaders.

So Marky wanted to get in.

And so now Rocky, as of last night, thinks he hasn't talked yet.

He said, gee, if he could come to that Italian dinner for the, he speaks Italian, he goes to it.

So I talked to Rose, and I said, this is primordial.

And let's do that.

And he's a supporter.

He's a supporter.

Rodney says that's all it takes, and maybe someday if there's a meeting going over to study culture in Italy, because he goes all the time, but it's a small one, I don't know.

But the only thing is the deal wasn't quite as easy to develop as...

Yes?

She said she'd put that on.

Yes, and we'll all tell her now, apparently.

He gave four names, and she told him, he said, this one is much more important to me than any of the other four.

That's correct.

And more about that, we have this quarter that's supposed to occur, so...

And I wanted to see this earlier than that to make it easier out here.

Yes.

Hold on.

I need you to step back.

I'm going under here.

I was going to say that I'd like the next meeting to have a little bit of an equity on it.

Michael will drop it at that time.

Well, it's doubtful.

And I'm not going to ask that.

I remember your instructions that if we do that, we're going to accept it.

We've got to really see how it goes tomorrow.

And they're not there.

If we get Michael on board on the right basis, then I think you'll cooperate fully.

I'm essentially lazy on this thing, but we can run it.

We can.

And so, but Bob, I'd say right now, let's wrap this question up.

Well, I think that thing can run the candidate thing.

And Michael, what I hope will come if we have the meeting with Michael Brogdon is that you say, Bob, look, the thing you know, and we all know here, that that needs to be shaken up.

And once that's done, then I think the candidate recruitment thing can...

can be handled, but he'll get somebody else.

He'll come in without Wilson.

I think he could come in without Wilson.

I would prefer that.

If you could make...

He can't talk Canada.

No, because there's...

I'm not going to make this just a brief meeting and then meet later.

And it's not essential.

I just thought that it would get it off on the right foot.

I like the idea.

We said, if you'd rather postpone for, you know, 10 days.

Oh, no, I think what you should do is come in and say, look, we want to come in so I can congratulate you.

All right.

Yes, sir.

And I'll give you about 15 minutes to give them a little story about the candidates.

Because tonight I want you folks to go back and spend a couple weeks and come in with a talk.

Yes, sir.

How's that sound?

That sounds perfect.

And we've now grown up.

We've come up with a pretty good one.

And Bob will buy it.

And Bob will want to see it.

It just grows.

George has got all these new kinds of tags and prints he's talking about.

The one we do have to get in is Marquis.

Marquis.

Yes.

Okay.

He's a very good scholar.

Okay.

You might have to talk to him.

Well, you should meet your friend, Lindsay, for nomination for mayor.

So he must be wonderful.

Rocky says, this is one of the last words I'm talking about, Rocky says, Markey is being used by Lindsey.

And Lindsey's going to Markey and says, Markey, I'm for you, friend, I want you.

And what Lindsey is doing is what Rocky told you he was going to try to do, is confuse it so that Alex Rose has to go with Lindsey, and Lindsey once more is mayor of New York.

Markey says, Rocky, it's too dumb to say it.

Marquis says if you come to that dinner and maybe come later on and solve it.

If I see a change in it, I'll just call Rosemond.

No, no, no.

I haven't been to the dinner.

Anyway, Marquis is a big Republican.

And he could knock off Lomento or some of those others if you have to tell him to stop.

I would probably tell him to come.

Yeah, on the reeds, the firemen, that's good.

Are you in attendance there?

Well, I'd love to come to dinner, but I don't know if I can't pass the physical.

Hey, uh, Reed, what is the situation there?

Uh, I saw something of the effect that they were bitching about in the lobby.

That's got a better hold on the question.

Ah, that's not... That is such bullshit.

It is so... You know what I mean?

We...

It's a whole free world video.

I know.

And I, uh, and my brother, who came from down here.

My, huh?

He came from down here.

Oh, did it?

Yes, sir.

I thought maybe it had come out like some little shit stack.

Well, I don't think so, but what I asked reads as controversial, much more so than when I asked him to do the job.

I bet he got a lot of people sore-headed and arrogant, young guy.

Arrogant and confident.

But confident.

And I talked to him about it since all this publicity, and I was up in an ORU, and I said, Kim, what in the hell do you do to make everyone so mad?

And I said, really, I don't care, but there is a deal.

We're working with the House and Senate that you're going to have to, it's not one campaign in 80, and we're going to have to work.

I think you'll do a hell of a job.

He's come up with a first-class program, but I don't have an awful lot of flack on it, and I think it's as broad as Kevin Phillips is just being an author.

The other thing is Brock was a ball player all the way to the East.

Oh, I'm sorry.

No, it's the latter.

Brock's embarrassed to death by it.

It's an ignorant thing.

Oh, I think it's coming out of, God, it might be from Antichrist.

Didn't you say from down here?

There's nobody down here.

This is for reals.

No, it's coming, well, it's coming out of some place over, and I don't know that in and of itself, but it's coming out.

I know that because I ran it down with Bob Novak, and he said, I said, where is this stuff coming from?

I said, it's just not fair.

It's not fair at all.

I don't know if you were in any of those.

I don't know.

It's a, could that be from that research I was doing there?

They love to talk politics on jackasses.

I don't have any idea.

There's three or four guys around here with feet.

I think you're right.

I think it could be any of them.

Well, it could be.

And I've talked to the vice president personally and said, look, please, if you have any questions about any of these opponents, this committee is not going to feel towards or away from anyone.

And that can come out there, you know, to anything.

We are going to do stupid stuff here.

I'll probably have to I haven't heard.

But anyway, what I was going to say, speaking on the candidate that you've got on this camera, but let me say, George,

We've got to be careful about that part of the old parts.

Some of those people .

There's a good example of George's 74th shade when the time comes to run.

We've got them all to be running for the House of Representatives.

So it's a job.

And there's others like that.

But I think we'll have a .

So we're going to go after all of theirs and .

I think it's going to work pretty well, and I think we can do it.

I think this is getting out better.

The reason is I don't think certainly the reason .

I just don't want you guys in the house trying to push it.

We don't give a damn what you do there.

We just want it to work.

The main thing is if you've got something going,

You haven't had a short view of it at all.

We haven't had it for the House.

And Greece has to bring every bit of China to the place of love.

We have the House candidates.

That's why those candidates, he just took good, strong, vigorous young House candidates.

And the chance of winning is good.

You have the target going all the way.

The target's against you anyway.

House fellows want it too.

That's why I think once we get the leadership change and once I explain to Bob, here's the program, it's a great thing for him.

It's a great thing for all the House members.

And I know we can sell it.

So it's just getting over this Wilson thing, which happens tomorrow morning.

And then the deal is set and out he goes.

I think we're going to be in pretty good shape on that.

And I think the word next to those fat hairs is beginning to filter out.

The politics will come back through here.

But the press conference is the only damn question.

Who do you have to talk to to see?

That's a procedural thing.

But don't worry.

I've seen more.

In six weeks in this job, and I did two years.

You know, you end up, you have to talk to Hall about it.

You have to talk to the girl.

It's a, it's got to be this game in town.

But anyway, that's it.

That's it.

We're getting bit a little bit, Mr. President, on the Watergate around the country, but we're just saying, like you told me, it's building up.

And I'm just simply saying, look, we don't like it.

I've changed the images of it, you know, and all this, and try to get on to the next question, but it's built, and the mail's getting heavier, and that kind of thing.

Thank you, sir.

What do you think you can do about it?

I don't know.

Any more that could be done?

We, uh... Well, I have...

The hair we set, the hair we set, the hair is coming up.

The hair is going to make worse.

If you're concerned about Watergate, why isn't the president sending?

I said, you're confusing two issues.

One of them is a great constitutional issue that's going to transcend and importance Watergate.

That is the executive privilege, which may be determined by this grand court decision.

Don't mix that in to an issue that I'll agree with you is a drudgery issue.

It's this kind of thing that this disclosure is what they're calling for.

One or two.

I know they say there's no issue with disclosure.

I mean, as the President said at his press conference,

We have cooperated totally with the grand jury, all the White House staff and so forth who were asked to testify in statements to the FBI and so forth and so on.

The only question is how you operate.

And the president has a constitutional responsibility, I'd rather use the term executive privilege, a constitutional responsibility to defend the principle of separation of powers.

That's my job.

I have that responsibility.

And they say, well, what about, they ask, what about Chairman Adams going up?

Why did he go up?

You don't know why.

He was charged with a crime.

This is a totally different matter.

He is a lawyer, a lawyer, who has done all of that.

Nobody, there isn't any question about him being involved in the crime.

You see the point?

And the point is, my point is, we have cooperated with it, and under the circumstances that you see, we are cooperating, we will, there's no question of holding back.

It's simply that it's a question of

We cannot agree to have members of White House staff rock the board of congressional committees and for that person to be for PDP in New York.

That's really what it gets down to.

But why not?

We are cooperating.

We have offered to.

It's up to them.

They don't want any cooperation.

They aren't the issue.

They aren't interested in getting the facts.

They're only interested in the issue.

Well, they want the issue.

I know you're getting the bird hunt.

It's a tough one.

I made a statement the other day to the press in New York.

How do they know they're credit cards?

These little plastic sustaining membership cards.

And it's funny, though.

It's not a real, it's more, until I understand this, it's not going to say I'm screwing with this man's party.

It's more, and I think that is some, the president's record.

They don't want to break with the president.

They don't want to disassociate themselves in the war and revenue.

But it's kind of a you owe us an answer kind of thing, you see.

In New York, they asked me at the big press conference there, they said something about, well, what about Watergate?

And I said, I want to make an observation.

The Watergate issue is mainly one which where the questions are concentrated on here in New York and in Washington.

And they believe me.

I said, well, when I go to Kansas City or Cleveland or wherever, they don't ask.

They might have one question on it at a press conference, and we can sit here 15 minutes and talk about nothing else.

Well, it came out, you know, in the press that this is it.

I was saying, well, it wasn't a national issue or something.

So I get letters coming in from people saying, well, yeah.

But the truth is, when you go to Minneapolis the night before your head press conference, be well-attended, you know,

The question wasn't that.

Now, we started it off on the 15% tax, you know, getting into the thing, so they concentrated on that.

Maybe there was one question.

In New York, the minute you get off the plane, or Washington, it's either that, or do I talk to her early, then I call her, and I'm about to see the president.

And it's the funniest damn thing.

And you get outside, and nobody cares about that.

There are questions for George.

I don't know if there's anything that's maybe for the administration.

This is basically a much more liberal, left-oriented press here than it is in the country.

The country has its problems, but it's much worse here.

And we're going to get there.

I wish there were an answer to it, but I just don't know.

I don't think it's going to be that good.

I don't know about that.

I don't know what they have to do with it.

That's a problem.

I mean, I think it's a very good idea.

People say, put out a state that we have.

Nobody's going to understand us.

Nobody will leave.

Yeah.

Right.

Well, what did they say?

Let us all testify.

Thank you.

I don't believe that come fall of 74, the impoundment or executive privilege or even Watergate, unless there's some damn unexpected thing, are going to be issued.

I just don't think that people are that, in these press conferences around the country, nobody's ever said, what's your view on impoundment?

I have yet to get the first question, and these are pretty sophisticated reporters, on the impoundment issue.

I don't know what the polls show on it, but I don't believe it.

That's enough.

Yeah.

Good luck to you.

Well, thank you.

You want me to talk to Charles?

Oh, here's the thing.

John knows this.

The thing on that one is there's some grubby stuff in that picture.

And I agree.

Yeah, I agree.

There's some grubby stuff.

I don't think that he better not try to get it.

There's some grubby stuff.

And it's worse than, I mean, I don't think... Where's the KO?

We'll pay.

The KO is underestimating this.

That's why I was hoping, you know, we could be an arm that could calm down.

So, you know, it's the kind of thing we don't need.

It's the kind of thing that...

So I think, unless you'd like me to talk to Charlie again, I can.

We've done enough for him.

I mean, Charlie isn't going to get off.

The thing we do is to simply...

I think you should tell Charlie one of the good things that we're saying.

I do not think, I don't want him to come down here though.

He's not, he's not to come down here as a, to an office that runs for governor.

Because that does put me in a frame.

This vote came down to talk about domestic issues and inform me that he was going to run for governor.

I understand.

the governor and that was the basis of my maybe I should have done that.

So I think that you're going to say, look, I appreciate you.

The second time the president has told him that he will not get the primary.

He said, of course, he will support the ticket to the ball.

But he did say that he appreciated what Jay Hill had done in his campaign.

That he appreciates what you've done.

Can you handle it that way for me?

Okay.

Thank you.