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Conversation 886-002

TapeTape 886StartWednesday, March 21, 1973 at 8:11 AMEndWednesday, March 21, 1973 at 8:21 AMParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Scowcroft, Brent G. (Gen.)Recording deviceOval Office
AI Summary

President Nixon and General Brent Scowcroft discussed the logistical challenges of the U.S. military withdrawal from Vietnam and the potential risks associated with North Vietnam’s proposal to exchange prisoners of war by the 25th. The pair evaluated the timing of planned air strikes in light of ongoing uncertainty regarding the formation of a new Laotian government and North Vietnamese troop movements. Nixon ultimately decided to maintain flexibility regarding the withdrawal deadline, instructing Scowcroft to inform the North Vietnamese that U.S. forces would be out before the 28th without committing to the accelerated 25th deadline.

Vietnam WarPrisoners of WarMilitary withdrawalAir strikesLaosLogisticsForeign policy
AudioNARA Description

On March 21, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and Gen. Brent G. Scowcroft met in the Oval Office of the White House from 8:11 am to 8:21 am. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 886-002 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 886-2

Date: March 21, 1973
Time: 8:11am - 8:20 am
Location: Oval Office

The President met with Gen. Brent G. Scowcroft.

       Vietnam settlement
            -Infiltration
                   -Latest reports
                   -Civil administrator groups

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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
[National Security]
[Duration: 2s]

       SOURCE OF INFORMATION

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
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                NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                     (rev. Sept. 2010)
                                                              Conversation No. 886-2 (cont’d)

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                -Truck movement
                       -Significance
          -Prisoners of war [POW] release
                -Four Power Commission
                       -North Vietnam’s representative
                -Deadline
                -US withdrawal
                -Laos
                       -North Vietnam
                             -Public statement
                -Laos
                       -Number of prisoners
          -Air strikes
                -Possible dates
                       -Release of POWs from Laos
                             -Postponement
                       -Laos
                             -Government formation
                                    -Cabinet
                -Message to Henry A. Kissinger
                       -Response from Kissinger
                -Decision deadline
                -Souvanna Phouma
                -Timing
                       -Release of POWs
                -Laos
                -US assurances to Nguyen Van Thieu
                -Cease-fire
                       -Implications
                -Cambodia
                       -President's authority after troop withdrawal
                             -State Department
                             -Constitutional questions
                                    -Gulf Of Tonkin Resolution
                                              -3-

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                       (rev. Sept. 2010)
                                                               Conversation No. 886-2 (cont’d)

                                           -Cease-fire
                                    -Justifications
                                           -Protection of troops
                                           -Guarantee of cease-fire
                                           -Congressional authorization
                                    -Possible action by North Vietnam
                                    -Treaty obligations
                                           -Thailand
                                           -Laos
             -US withdrawal of troops
                  -POW release
                  -Deadline
                        -Logistics
                  -US message to North Vietnamese

Scowcroft left at 8:20 am.
Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

We have had a report, sir, that 16 groups of civil administrator forces are now moving out of North Vietnam.
There is some indication...
Some of the trucks which had started to go north are now coming south again.
We don't know what the significance of that is.
The DRB representative on the 4th Power Commission has just offered to release all our prisoners by the 25th and to guarantee those in Laos by the 28th if we will withdraw by the 25th.
all our courses see our deadline is the 28th and of course it could be just the way you mentioned yesterday that they want to get us out this is looking possible assuming that that will lend itself to what I want to make
We haven't answered yet.
It's difficult not to agree, because I'm sure if a person likes it, I'm sure they'll make it public very shortly.
The only catch is that we would physically have withdrawn our forces before we had in hand those prisoners they hold them out.
you know they've only admitted nine americans and one canadian we're still arguing with them about other things they must hold there
And that's, uh, that's not the only change that, uh, that's come here so far.
Well, with regard to this strike, the 22nd is out for everyone.
That's right.
It's, uh, it's a different, we just, uh, well, let's see if we, uh, flip it now.
A, we were originally thinking the 22nd and the 23rd.
The 23rd is out then.
Well, no, no, the 22nd is out now.
Well, the 23rd is not allowed.
Why?
The 23rd is out.
Because of the Laotian.
Well, that's the day on which they're supposed to... Well, it's an argument.
I don't think it's a controlling argument, but it is an argument to postpone it slightly.
There's been no indication
Yes, that they will in fact be able to form a government by the 23rd.
There still aren't any cabinet posts.
Why don't you get a message from Henry, what he said, that he's got the latest facts as well.
That's right, that's right.
I'll do that and I should have an answer from him by shortly after noon.
He hasn't agreed to request it.
He's agreed not to object to it.
it's coming down it would in fact now almost coincide with the
That's right.
That's right.
We did it now on the 23rd or 24th or even 24th and 25th.
Well, I think that I agree.
I agree.
I think that looks
So I agree that I think we just have to forget the lock.
The lock is open and going.
We have a very serious problem here.
Despite all of our insurance, the children can find it.
It's probably going to take a little bit of anything for Frank's policy.
I don't know what your question is.
Well, we're already getting better.
It makes it very difficult.
We're already being pressing, for example, if we continue to strike in Cambodia after our troops are out, what is your authority?
We haven't answered it yet.
The state had sort of an off-the-cuff answer, and I said, no, we don't answer it.
This is a very important question, or a very important answer.
In a way, it's a constitutional question.
We don't have the top yet.
We've got a ceasefire supposedly on the way.
We don't have any troops.
No.
No troops.
Protect.
Protect.
The purpose of it is to be able to cease fire.
We don't have an authorization from Congress to do that.
Well, I think it is.
Because, but on the other hand, the argument is not done.
Oh, no.
Having done this now, there, I'm going to do something on that, and you're going to do it next time.
You see what I'm doing?
That's right.
That's right.
And the argument, we're doing it now.
That's right.
That's right.
Without some great advantage, which would... Yeah, even a great advantage.
A great advantage.
We'll see.
We'll see.
We'll see.
I will and I'll get a place to scrub on you and tell it this.
If the message means something, but if the message just means less, there's no sense in taking one at a low risk.
By getting out on the 25th, that means 25th our day, 25th their day.
That means the 25th their day.
So that's the night of the 24th.
They'll come out about usually, probably about midnight on
We don't have any control over our future.
We do not have to withdraw those money, eh?
I would not agree to withdraw them.
I don't think I would say to take it out on them.
I would just say, we'll be, we'll be, we'll be, we'll be, we'll be, we'll be, we'll be, we'll be, we'll be, we'll be, we'll be, we'll be, we'll be, we'll be.
Don't, don't, don't just say that we don't have it.
We should have done this.
We should have been on the plans, logistics, but we will be out before the 28th.
All right.
Not answers specifically.
We'll be out before the 28th.
We'll be out before the 28th.
We cannot make it until the 25th.
Very good.
We can make it until the 25th.
We will start to move, but we cannot make it until the 25th.
But it will be well before the 28th.
Leave it that way.
And we get another response.
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