Nixon, Shields & Scowcroft on POWs and MIA

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Thank you.

Mr. President, I'm actually happy to be staying on this life.

producer going on a great play or a great movie.

You have a bunch of stars in this one.

It's an all-star cast.

And right now, the importance of that, I think, can be seen in contrasting this operation with 600 people, nine foreign nationals, but 600 people who came to the system with the release of the three that we had last October.

I wish we had just went through

This one was much easier.

That's correct, with the P6, with Coral Weiss in that room.

This was much better because we didn't have to deal with those people, and these men were just right.

And all the people involved in this operation considered it to be a labor of love, and we had time to work it beforehand.

We had the plans laid down, the best thinking that we could fire plan and put into it.

Every man knew his job and did it well.

What is your feeling now, what is the future, of course, about the very difficult readjustment period that these folks have to go through?

They come back at a moment very late, and they're heroes and so forth, and they will always be deeply respected, but of course, they didn't kind of get into that type of thing.

So I personally hope

that I had in the service.

The service should recognize that they do stay in the service, that they are tremendous assets, and they shouldn't have jackass secret officers do this.

And I'm very content to say to these people, to the recruiters, that they shouldn't be speaking to us.

but they thought deeply about themselves and about this country.

And I just think it would be a terrible mistake if they were brought back into the service and just treated like, well, that's done.

That's going to be very foolish.

I mean, you can't get, oh, I know the service line as well.

You've got to treat the animal's son just like the son of the enlisted man.

That's crap.

You've got to be sure that the animal's son is a servant to the state government.

I believe they do, Mr. President.

I think that we have the services thinking in this direction.

I think an indication of this would be the two promotions, the general and the air force, the two general, all of which are very well deserved.

And the fact that the services have offered these regular commissions

and certainly about their duties of first-sighted duty.

You and I both have been in the service of these times very, very, at best, until I grew up.

but I do picture a lot of thought for that in their duties.

These folks must not feel, after years of being in prison, that they don't have something that is fulfilling.

They must not feel frustrated.

They must not feel, oh, God.

You see what I mean?

Yes, it's tough.

It's tough because everybody in the church has got to do what his job is worth.

But these guys particularly, that's the most important.

They're going to have a time when all these things go.

You have the elation.

There are men and women

She has tremendous inner strength.

They had that when they were in captivity, and they have shown that sense of leadership, a sense of responsibility, not to let the sacrifices that they made stand for naught, but to continue the work.

And they want to do that.

They know that they are made with it.

particularly improve off, and they're determined to do something about that.

They have indicated a desire to continue their education.

Some of them are going to be assigned to the National War Colleges and the State Service Schools.

And they're being counseled right now, and I will pass your message on to the Service District.

It's the use of that counselor.

Because obviously their idea was that they inspire.

leadership doesn't inspire everything else.

These guys have been inspired a great deal.

They know why they work in this service.

They know that it gets worthwhile.

They know how important it is to maintain strength and respect and all that sort of thing.

And what do we have?

We must risk the opportunity, not just to subversion, but also to their accuracy and their ground.

Mr. President, I think it's particularly important because

The first feeling that these men have is that there are things for them to do and be dissipated.

I think that we do have to acknowledge that we have men here who have been tempered in the fire and have experiences that none of us have.

to the people of this country.

I think it's had a great effect already.

People who call me, people who are beginning to doubt their patriotism.

It just wasn't a thing to say.

And now they're coming out and saying it because these men came out without God.

And men who suffered, so few people have died.

It's a pitiful attempt on the left wing.

People say that we're all at an excellent stage.

My God.

Isn't that something?

The men in that album answered that that far better than they said it would be.

They've been brainwashed for seven years in prison.

I mean, how could they brainwash us in a two-hour flight?

Never.

Those men are not the men to be brainwashed.

They're very frank and forthright.

I go back, as you did, in your speech to the nation a week or so ago to Captain Willidge's comment.

I never thought that anyone would question my motives and say, God bless America.

I flew back on that flight from Hanoi with Captain Denton.

I was there.

I sat down with Captain Denton.

We were concerned at the time about, we knew that there were some problems, a few problems with regard to misconduct.

We wanted to be sure that that was channeled into the right conduits.

Captain Denton said, what should I say?

I suggested that he not talk about casualty information because we don't want a family to learn that the black one died over the radio or television, but otherwise the way he felt.

And he wrote down some words and got on the PA system of the aircraft and talked to the men and said, I want to represent you and here's what I plan on saying.

Is this an adequate expression of your feelings?

And

They all gave those thumbs up.

And Mr. President, I wish he could have been in Hanoi when that first group, all of the groups were great, but to be there when that first bus came around the corner to see those men, I could have flown back to Clark without the use of the airplane.

It was a great experience.

Well, we had gone into the terminal initially to talk with the North Vietnamese about the procedures that they wanted to use.

And they were very cordial, and their procedures were, I think, normally are acceptable to us.

They said the men are around the corner in our room, and we'll release them as soon as we agree on the procedures.

we said well let's let's get on with it the men are anxious to go back and i suggested that our flight surgeon might want to go over and talk to them and we knew it was the second wounding room and see about any problems they might have and there would be interviews and said well we don't want you to disturb them because a lot of them are sleeping this was half an hour before they were we're giving to us well then we went outside and they had a table where

that were the initial, the roster of men being released.

They came around the corner of the terminal in buses, camouflaged buses, all colors that looked like service buses.

And I had been watching for them when I saw them coming, three buses in that first group.

And I walked over that way, and some of the northeastern police guards tried to push me back, but I towered over them when I saw the men.

I gave them some assistance.

Yes,

in civilian clothes and much as I am right now, I looked at them and I smiled and they broke out of the grave and stuck their thumbs up signal outside and I said, you'll be with us in just a few minutes.

And that C-141 was just about 40 yards away with the American flag on the tail.

The first man out off the bus was a senior officer for that bus.

He was a Navy commander named Boat, and he was on crutches.

He had a bad injury to his leg and leg dandruff.

And as soon as they got off that bus, he said, And those men stood in line there, tall and proud and very dignified.

They said, what should we do?

I said, I think you're supposed to go through this little gate here on this side of the square and out this side, and then you're out.

And they walked through there, and they didn't look to the right or to the left, but just hands held high.

As soon as Commander Bowden, the first one, went through the other side, he threw down his crutches and threw his arms around me.

He said, I'm home.

And I said, you sure are.

And it was great.

Just threw it away and

I walked him onto the ramp of that airplane.

It was just, it was unbelievable.

You could see the dignity of those men and Captain Devlin on board the aircraft as we closed that tailgate.

He said, we wanted to come out in honor.

He said, we succeeded.

And I said, you have succeeded.

And that's what they wanted more than anything else.

on the bus had a signed tape on his jacket.

I guess Daniel Kramer was the one who pulled the little flag out and said, God bless America and President Nixon.

And one of the other men had tapes on his jacket, God bless President Nixon.

They knew of your efforts and the company's efforts, and they were proud.

They felt that they were ready to serve 20 more years there if needed.

Those men knew what we had been trying to do.

You were.

Yeah, I want you to say, in the context you had with that, I personally have said what you're going to do.

I'm going to follow this through within our relationship with our Vietnamese, that we're going to insist on superfluous adherence to the agreement, what that's supposed to do with cooperating with us, that I consider the highest importance to see the media,

I think the main thing is certainty.

And I know we can move on that and say, well, it's over now.

It's over.

We can't find it.

But it goes, let's continue our research.

But without, you see, that's the delicate thing.

They've got to figure we're doing everything we can to be sure that we have found everybody.

But on the other hand, we must not destroy the certainty that they have as much better to be certain that the man is gone than it is to be uncertain that the man is dead.

Okay, Mr. President

the president said he has not considered this job now he does not

uh... uh...

to get out and go pray for the North Vietnamese, or at least that he did.

Frankly, that's what the December bombing was about, among many other things.

The men themselves that day on that, I don't think that he started robbing those things.

I mean, he had to be paid the North Vietnamese every day on the agreement.

They had attached conditions with regard to the return of the U.S. that attached to that.

The men are bare most eloquent testimony.

And they, as you know, you've talked with them, but they understand that commitment, and I will pass that on to the families of the missing.

We do have two missing for every man who did come home.

We're in frequent contact with them, and they will be extremely pleased to know, and they do know of your concern, but this will be a chance to raise concern.

How long have you been here?

About two and a half years now, Mr. President.

I came here from the University of Texas.

You're from Texas?

I'm from Texas.

You're not from Texas?

I'm from Texas, I accept.

I'm a part of Fort Worth, Gainesville.

Oh, did you go to the University of Texas?

I graduated from the University of Florida.

Oh, you did?

At the University of Virginia, I graduated from there.

Did you graduate from the University of Virginia?

Where did you get your PhD in Texas?

The University of Virginia.

I was on the faculty in Texas.

Oh, you were teaching in Texas?

Theoretically, I'm leaving the absence from the University of Texas now.

Right.

That's correct.

That's right.

And you came to the Defense Department there.

I think the greatest.

I was 33.

I was elected to Congress when I was 33.

I started the investigation.

But you've had it better.

Mr. President, it's been a great experience.

And sometimes I feel that that should have been the capstone of my time.

And we know those men are going to be great.

I became involved in that, but very quickly, I became involved in imprisonment and missing work.

Well, follow up, that's all.

Put all that weight here right behind you, please.

And we will.

We're going here today enough to be able to walk back.

I did that one time from the line.

Where are you going to tackle?

Have you played tackle at a university?

At Lawrence.

Well, I hurt my knee.

I had a carpenter's injury.

What year was that?

Graduated in 1961.

Well, we have...

Now, that was just before.

It was just before the great one, Steve Spurrier.

He came on just after that.

This was a young fellow named Mary Lieberthorne, who was a 145-pound quarterback.

We did meet Miami that year.

The reason I follow him is

and the whole place comes apart.

It is a great rivalry, and I guess now Florida State is beginning to... Oh, yes, Florida State, they have these marvelous hands between them.

They're pretty good quarterbacks.

They have the... Also, they honor our blacks, which is another one of the heroes there.

It took a long time.

We've got these great basketball teams.

I saw the UCLA...

It's a great sport, and I can say that was part of the drawing card of Texas.

I'm a cliffhanger, and that was appreciated very much.

Oh, gosh.

Wow.

Well, uh... Oh, wait a minute.

I'll give you a minute.

Are you married?

Yes, I am.

Is this your daughter?

I tried to be.

I didn't have as much time.

Thank you very much.

Here's your coffee.

That's all you get.

Thank you very much.

It wasn't my idea.

Nixon, Shields & Scowcroft on POWs and MIA

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Transcript (AI-generated)

Also recorded on April 11, 1973

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Nixon, Shields & Scowcroft on POWs and MIA

AI Summary

Audio

NARA Description

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Transcript (AI-generated)

Also recorded on April 11, 1973

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Cite this conversation