On April 12, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon, John B. Connally, and Manolo Sanchez met in the Oval Office of the White House from 4:00 pm to 5:27 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 894-016 of the White House Tapes.
Transcript (AI-Generated)This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.
Hi, John, how are you?
Oh, Mr. Brunson's party.
I just got the ship straight.
How are you, sir?
Well, we've got your winter clothes on, haven't we?
It's cold, Mr. Brunson.
What's happening, Mr. Brunson?
Greetings, Mr. Tungus G. Corcoran.
Oh, said the last time he saw you, the gentleman, he's quite a special hickory about, uh, this radio.
Here's a wall pole at the center.
This does look, this collection, about, I'll probably read the damn thing, Walpole.
He said Walpole was a better example than this.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So he gauged it.
I said, I'm not sure he is.
He has to be probably kind of amazing.
I know.
He looked amazing.
I'm much younger than I thought he'd look because, you know, having served in the Roosevelt administration, I hope this guy's got to be up there.
But I guess he...
Yes, he is.
He's a sedative.
He's just a surprise.
He's an unpaid man.
Just great moves.
He's in everything, too, I can see that.
At work.
Of course, his wife died years ago.
Oh!
He's amazing.
He told me about his children.
He told me he had children, so I thought he had one.
No, he died a number of years ago.
He's reared those children.
Works 12, 15 hours every day.
Incredible.
what he does.
Is he successful?
Oh, yeah.
Third, my lawyer.
He's a lawyer.
He's a lawyer.
He's a lawyer.
He's a lawyer.
He's a lawyer.
He's a lawyer.
But he knows more people and more things about more people than anybody in this town.
And I remember your time as a freshman with this fellow.
Oh, I loved Rock and I'm gonna get it again.
But if you need to keep very close to the center of Irving, isn't there going to be very close to Eastwood?
Very close to Eastwood.
So if you ever need to demonstrate again.
Sure.
You know, out of the traditional channels, he's one.
You know, the, uh, the, uh, I don't want to tell you what, uh, I mean, because we should have talked about it myself.
We'll start with one that, uh, that I want to be sure got your input in.
They told you, hey, I'm going to ask one energy.
You know, you've talked pretty much.
We're going all out on that goddamn thing.
Like there were deregulation of new gas and it's going to be, you know what I mean?
These are things that, as I ask them, my understanding is that your political judgment is that it's all right.
So far as I know, I'm not familiar with what's in there.
I know.
I talked to the lawyer, but I just talked to him one time, and that was in the early stages.
I talked to Bill Simons, a couple of times.
Yes, Simons.
And as late as last week, I talked to him earlier than just one time.
And that was weeks.
Let me ask you this.
Let me ask you this.
I'm not sure.
I don't know what's on your mind.
Well, a number of the things that are on your mind, you know, the influence, the...
research and deregulation and new gas, all of that in the future.
But I'd like to get the messages going that we're going to present to the Congress on Wednesday.
It's not going to be a big body part.
It's going to be real because everybody's going to be down.
I'd like to have Gabona, well, Gabona, just give you a little bit of a sneak copy to you.
indicated to do well, and maybe we can just get together and phone on it.
But the literal things I should have in mind.
I'm pretty much generous with it from the standpoint of the merits.
They thought over the politics pretty good.
They've been consulted with the Congress, of course.
you know people are going to get uh
But if you, I think that, I think, from what I think, I know, I have thought everything through on the political side, but I am gentlest with it, very much.
And I think if you have any, you see a real stark signal of what I think.
I don't think I will, very frankly.
I think I will.
It's a very interesting message.
Well, it's good.
I know we talked about it.
It's going to have some inflationary problems.
That's what I heard down the road.
If you do a long-term session, again, if you do a long-term session, cost money, raise the price.
But it's going to go up anyway, John.
You know, you take cattle, beef, corn, and beef.
John, the problem with beef is very, very simple.
They're very rigid.
That's right.
And everybody eats more than they ask.
And it's not easy to know because people don't want to eat.
They'll eat rice.
But it's not going to go up.
It's not going to go up.
Oh, yeah.
It's going to go up.
It's going to go up.
The price of meat in London today is higher than it is here.
It is higher than it is here.
It's higher in most of Europe than it is here, but beyond Europe.
So much for that.
We'll get that out of the way.
But that's very hopeful.
I don't think we're going to have to talk too much about side efforts because I don't want this to be a case where they say, well, the big oil and gas and other things just got to us.
So basically, you are kind of our witness to that.
I think Simon has talked some of it, but, well, he had told me, you know, that he's told you.
Well, that's all we can ask for, actually.
Max wanted to talk to you.
Sure.
He asked me and I said fine.
And he's your friend.
And he's got a great stake here.
But I don't see any real agency.
You've already had the elastic pipe on that.
Right.
You've got to go on the tariff program.
Right.
Yes.
There's no problem on that.
As a matter of fact, that will be employed by both people.
I assume that there's some...
means by which you're going to be able to protect the independent refinement in the United States.
I don't know.
These are the nuances I'm not sure of.
But I feel about this.
There has to be a way.
What do you like about it?
They have a refining capacity, and they need to use 100% of our refining capacity.
And I just am not sure that I'm going
Refiner, good.
They might not have done it.
They log in.
I know it.
But they're damn good people.
They sure are, necessarily.
The price of salation doesn't worry me.
I think you have to pay for this.
The research, I'm sure you're going to put it.
Coke expectation, all those sales that they're in.
All three.
That's right.
the environmental protection act with respect to the use of coal to burn the utility
the code that has too much software for the next three years or four years.
But you may not have to do that yet.
That would raise a lot of hell in the environment.
No question about it.
You don't want to cross that right around the neck.
I knocked it up about the... Did you notice that we got ruffles on us?
We haven't gotten the other one.
But that ruff did that on its own.
All I did was just tow it on.
I said ruff, I said for God's sakes.
The press is like too damn hard to step up to.
That's right.
The press is like too damn hard to step up to.
That's right.
The press is like too damn hard to step up to.
That's right.
Yes sir.
More, more, more.
I work in the service area.
No, I don't.
No, but that's what I was good at.
15, 16, and the cup raters were down around 11 or 12.
Well, it was harder because it was supposed to be fresh in here.
But you see, there was plenty of gas then.
It was cheap.
We were better off then.
No.
When we look at it today, you know,
get into the economic side.
You know, John, there's one thing.
As we think of what we do on the economic side, that I think I'm very, very hard here.
And before we go into that, I want to talk about this, but I've seen your preliminary views, and we've got to be very sure that we don't bust the booth.
Now you understand, you know, in 71, we didn't have a boom.
In 71, what we were trying to do is to get the damn thing going.
We had the worst of both worlds.
We had basically, let's call it, we had a recession and inflation.
And so we dealt with it.
And as a result of that, we got a good break.
We curbed the inflation.
Now we've got one hell of a movement.
You know, I don't believe the last unemployment.
You can't have unemployment go up by seven, three quarters of a million and have the unemployment number go down by one tenth of a point.
Basically, there are not many unemployed in this country.
They tell me you can't get help in many parts of the country.
But the movement's moving.
Just look at the retail sales and everything.
God, everything is just on an up for ten return.
So the real problem we have here is whether the action we take to curb the inflation will make us all feel better for the next six months, three to six months.
But whether what we have at the end of that pipeline and what effect it's going to have, the boat needs to be cooled some.
But we don't want to have the debt move cool to the point that we hit the downturn in, say, October of 1974.
And I don't think it's better.
I think the people would a hell of a lot rather have a boom, which is inflation, than they'd rather have.
See, what you can do is get the worst of both worlds again.
We can have a situation of inflation and a downturn.
That's what I'm worried about.
Now, unless what we have in mind will work,
And we're, not just not, but we're going to be trying to curb the inflation.
My view is, you better, you better look at that in terms of, if you agree with that, then I'm successful.
And yet you're still pretty much on the side of, at the moment, of a freeze.
Not, no, not a big freeze, no.
That's what you were trying to do before.
I think you ought to select, well, there's certain trouble spots.
Right.
In the economy.
Right.
The greatest of which is Wall Street.
Wall Street is plagued by a number of things.
And the attitude of Wall Street is extremely bad.
Most of their problems are totally unrelated to the economy.
Many of the companies went public.
And their down stock, they always thought their stock was just going to go 30 times or 6 or 7 times.
That deflates everybody that's in the stock market because they're public companies.
Secondly, the SEC changed the commission procedures for stock savings.
And above 100,000, they charge so much.
Above 300,000, they charge so much.
It costs the stock market about 200 million dollars a year.
In 69 and 70s, you would well remember many of these companies were hanging on the raggedy edge at some or another.
You remember the Ross and Rowe things that we tried to save for you.
Well, I'm not so damn sure he's not back on the raggedy edge now, just because the local items are still every day, 13, 15 days after.
So that's hurt.
And the loss of commission is hurt.
The fear of a tax bill next year or this year, I've been trying to say to them, at least it's not coming until next year.
But they have real cause for concern.
Congress and I, we're fighting like hell now.
I say that I feel, first, our tax program would be unreasonable.
We may go for that minimum tax thing, you know, but I mean, it's what we had in the 59 notes that didn't pass, but it's not affecting anybody.
But as far as the capital gains and all that sort of thing, if they have it in there, I'll be doing what is going to be in there.
They've got three major things about Wall Street.
And everybody .
Number one, they're going to extend the holding period from six months to a year.
Secondly, they're going to raise the rate from 35 to 50%.
And then they're going to have a capital gains .
So, all of these things have a depressing effect.
You see, all of Wall Street, that's what they do with the cops.
That doesn't mean that there's not people working, that there's not a room in this country.
This is the fear of the unknown.
It's the fear of the future.
But psychologically, the only problem we have in the country today is a psychological problem.
And what I really think you ought to do, is when you get a look, I thought your actions over meat prices was exactly right.
It's unsatisfying.
It's unsatisfying, but it's something.
Because you couldn't let it.
We couldn't let meat prices go unrestrained without triggering arms, labor.
That was the original intention.
There's no question about that.
So you had to do it.
And it's going to be relatively ineffective because the worldwide shortage of meat.
And what's going to happen?
The meat is going to leave this country.
It's going to go to Europe.
Because, as you just pointed out, meat prices in Europe are higher than they are in the United States.
Brazil has already imposed a restriction on the export of meat.
Because it's triggered more inflation there, and they're trying to hold inflation at 15 percent.
It's even shipping the wheat from the world markets.
They've just destroyed their markets.
So there's a worldwide shortage.
Ireland's need is all over to European mainland now.
None here.
Japan has doubled their importation.
More than doubled.
They've gone from, I see, 80 million electric tons
8,000 metric tons last year to 133 metric tons and they make a minimum this year and in fact they'll go to 250 next year.
So they've doubled their production out of the dispute war.
So you're going to hear that continuing problem.
All I'm saying, all I said was that
When you find a loan or a particular commodity that's getting out of hand, I'm kidding, you hit it hard.
You and Federer said, well, I'd like to get that modification that you would make or select in control.
By all means, start that.
Yes.
Well, you've got the card that Congress, of course, was all in the hell of a kick, but you know what they were doing?
They were going to extend the Economic Stabilization Act with a mandatory...
So now I think they're going to extend for 60 days as is, which of course is not the best, but it's better than that.
And of course, it's good demogorgon .
But as you know, if that had come down, it would have to be .
Because basically, you can't roll these prices back.
You can't even roll them back to January.
What would happen then?
I did say to George in the final analysis, if you have to
If you feel a thing's getting out of hand, just get it again.
Break the boil for about 90 days.
Just the last bubble, it's not over.
If necessary, go do it again.
I think part of the problem is the labor contracts.
The labor contracts that are being negotiated are very reasonable.
They are damn reasonable.
We don't want to screw that up and let it get bad.
And then you see if you freeze it, you freeze, you have the danger that at the end of that jam, a bulge that has labor, the labor contracts.
But I believe there's no, we're considering that.
But I've got to get them all lined up.
But you agree, though, with the basic philosophy, the basic attitude, though, that what I ask you is to look down the road, not let there just be an issue.
In fact, don't kill this group.
I mean, the worst thing we can do is to kill.
Don't kill.
I don't care about Wall Street addiction.
I don't really know.
I'm sure you're doing well.
They're buying everything.
They're buying cars and meat and everything.
I was meeting a woman at the booth.
People like that.
They may not like to meet friends, but they like my employment.
I tell them a lot less.
Don't they?
And she said about me, right?
She didn't say that, but I don't know what she said.
I appreciate your giving me some of the dynamics.
I asked George to call and so forth and so on and so forth.
As I said, I'm tempted to get some input from outside the government
We've got good man George, we've got good man Donald, we've got good man Simon, we've got good man Simon and so forth.
Sometimes they don't know how to get their goal in the world and whatever they do, ask you to sort of give them what you feel is your gut reaction.
That's what we need.
Well, I gave two hours, I gave Bill Sanders and George Shultz that last Friday, right?
And part of it was the second half of the picture.
I didn't respond.
You need constantly to continue to take some actions.
And you really need somebody talking about it other than you.
He's talking about the best and real problem I've got is lack of communication.
Frankly, the problem I've got is that our good friend Pierre was talking to us the other day, talking to you on everything.
I read it on my back and he was gone, and he called John, and they were talking, and he said, and he said, George is just great at economics, but he's worth a damn.
George is a wonderful man and good in a small group, but he can't get out there.
And we have to realize, John, and I still do, that what made phase one work?
And the transition from phase one to phase two was the fact that we didn't have a double whammy.
You remember, I went on from one night, and you went on the next day, where every time he struck his head off, you kicked him in the ass, right?
And phase two, you went on, you know, and you had to sell it.
Now, for the first time, George is just capable of doing that.
Now, that's our problem with Singleton.
I mean, I shouldn't do it all the time.
No, you can't do it all the time.
The President always talked about that.
You can't do it all the time.
What do you think?
I mean, it's too depressing a subject.
Well, it isn't just that.
You just can't be on explaining things and that much.
It'll take a good once in a while, but you just can't do it all the time.
And I don't know.
What do you think you have to do, sir?
Get another salesman?
No.
I don't know.
God, I don't know.
Maybe...
You can't change George, I believe.
No, you can't.
No man can.
Well, Bill Simons ought to be our team.
Maybe.
He'll get the... Herb is great in small graphics.
Herb is not... Now, when he comes over, I'm like, nothing I'm told.
That's right.
My God.
That's right.
He looks like a...
And then on the other hand, you see, you've got these fellas like Jake with the guy that did this damn stuff while he's in Congress.
Jake, I don't understand.
Well, he predicted two years ago that the thousand-day would be 400.
I don't know, but some of it's just never been right.
That's correct.
But he depresses a hell of a lot of people, all of them, just by sitting down and having stuff here or something, just eating this stuff, all of them.
It's just unbelievable.
And, of course, the bankers, they all pay it now because the spreads are changing.
There are others in the government that are backing what I'm saying.
They want more.
Well, they just don't want the feds to tell them they've got the rovers.
Arthur's trying to get out of that job.
Yeah, well.
You'd be interested.
But he said Arthur is trying.
He's a logical man to have that job.
Yeah, he is trying.
That's what we're going to get out of it.
I understand that.
I understand that.
If you get out of that seat, yes, we might put him off.
Because George has to put him off.
He won't talk to you much.
new man on the Fed, I'm trying to hold him, is that right?
He's never been on the project.
They haven't talked to you about it yet?
No.
Robertson has resigned, which is great.
Yeah.
He's the vice-chairman.
And he's resigned.
And they've kept it very, very quiet.
And Arthur George, and I would agree with it, are pushing Bob LaHolland.
who is the director of the staff.
He's the staff director of the fed.
I understand every source for the last 18 months that he's a damn good man.
That's why we're pushing him.
What about George?
Well, I didn't talk to George about it.
I didn't raise him because I was afraid that I would be...
I like that.
I didn't think of it.
I think, well, I'm not...
He doesn't have to be a voter, but on the other hand,
Arthur's got a rough day, I'll tell you.
It's good to remember him.
Arthur also, and I'm taking stuff I shouldn't know.
Arthur, don't let him know I'm working with him.
He's mad at me.
He's mad at me.
He's trying to name George Mitchell as his vice-chairman.
George, George, George, George, George, he's a Democrat.
He's 68 years, 68 years old.
And he's tired.
In fairness to him, he votes right, his philosophy's good, and he comes to the meetings prepared.
But he's 68 years old, so I don't know really what he's going to do.
And this won't please Arthur.
And it's not worth making a fight about.
He's going to get that.
He ought to make this Jack Sheehan.
Yeah, that does help.
That does help.
You know, he's not a guy.
He's not a chef.
He's not a guy.
And he is your friend.
Above his loyalty to the heart of the people.
He works well with them.
They both have an 80% of the faith in a younger guy.
But, uh, you don't just see the problem that, you know, you talk about presidential politics these days.
As you well know, O'Brien and Rockefeller run like crazy.
But let's look at the situation in the post.
Reagan, and I think they're close to the same age, but they'll, each of them, if he should run, would be 66 or 67 years of age.
Now that is too goddamn old to be president.
He ought to be 66, not 68.
I think it's not said that well, but Rocky's the oldest of this, about two years.
He's old enough.
Now, you take off the study, and everybody can point out that, you know, the comparison with the gall, and an hour, and so forth, but those were very unusual men, Joe and I.
But I can tell you that they, you know, and I know, that it's, it's, that, that 50 is dead air to a few minutes.
You know what I mean?
You know how much, the only thing you've got in your 50s that you don't have in your 40s is wisdom.
And that, I guess, is worth it.
But basically, but you've got the guy in his 60s.
You should not run for president.
You should not run for president.
You should not run for the Senate.
And of course, you never run for the House.
Nobody should run for the House the first time if he's over for it.
Nobody should run for the Senate for the first time if he's overdue.
That's my view.
Never, never, never.
You agree?
That's a problem.
That's one of the problems with the goddamn Congress.
They took a little bit down there.
They sure are good men and so forth.
It isn't just a nap after lunch.
Right?
It's the fact that they just cannot keep going.
I've seen these guys.
I think Norris Pompadour, I love both tragedies, because he's asleep.
He falls asleep in the morning.
Well, besides the physical barrier, how do they get so committed philosophically and politically?
They have no flexibility there.
No.
That's right.
No flexibility.
No.
Absolutely not.
He was so nice.
He is crazy.
He is an absolute...
Flexibility is the right thing.
He is a doctor.
He's got some doctrinaire ideas that he constantly pounds in.
What an enormous influence he has on the country, though, John.
Sure.
Over a period of time, he has that.
Well, she had, that's something just to remember.
It's not worth, it's not worth, I'm not worth blood, but I'm worth blood for an argument.
But it's, well, you know, I mean, I don't want to get caught.
Oh, yes, I know.
I don't want to get caught.
I don't want to get caught.
I don't want to get caught.
She had a little more balls.
I think somebody ought to get this guy, Holland, if you go with him.
He ought to get him over here.
He's the right age, and he's a good man.
But if you point, if you have children come over here, be aware of the fact that he's older to you, not his daughter.
I don't say that to criticize his daughter.
He's your appointee.
I'm not arguing.
I have a different point.
You've been as true of all of them.
We've done that.
You know, the organization, the cabinet, the rest, every secretary, every assistant secretary, they all know and I've seen them all.
I've seen every system.
Now, there's the one of them that the Cavaliers don't like.
They all know, take like Bill Clements.
He's like, oh, the guy's doing a great job.
Bill Clements knows that he has to work here.
If you don't have him coming in, that'll make basically what might be Richardson's line.
If he knows my lines get very hard.
Correct.
I don't think that's right.
It's got to be that way.
They also have to understand that if you work under the Cavaliers, you never disagree with them.
There's a lot of, he'll work, you know, he'll, uh, he, uh, believes there's no, there's total, uh, there's no problem.
I mean, this guy, we always introduce each other.
You know, it's worked out quite well.
That's good.
This kid is a classic example.
Now, he, he is loyal to you.
Now, after you, he's loyal to Mark.
And, and, and Chip, he, he works, works well with you.
Well, actually, the thing is that now that Mark's helped, he came over here, uh, like, you know, he,
The Fed was responsible for, really responsible for some economic downturns, and he didn't need to have that as a tactic.
And John report, what the Fed does has immensely more.
And so, speaking on the positive side of the vote, I've been pleased with the way they've done it.
And it's the state's first two details.
You bet.
That's great.
They brought it right down the line.
They said it couldn't be done.
I've had all the congressmen, senators, and Democrats in my party have voted to sustain over at the House, the 535 House, just to thank them.
Because that took a lot of guns.
And surely the 36 senators, 189 congressmen, senators,
In other words, we're keeping the budget within reasonable control.
But it's not easy.
You can do it.
You do it under adverse circumstances, but you do it.
It's great.
Well, the people are getting to some of these guys that they do not want increased spending if they think it's going to be either higher taxes or higher prices.
That's the line we're putting.
because, uh, the cars you get as a result, I've found that I may work hard, I might help physically, I might help the poor folks and all the rest, but I just interpret you can't have it the way it's going to.
And the thing to do, get that line held.
Now, you've got to just get one first.
There's one more color in two states.
And every time you get somebody accused of that, I'd have one there.
So this is probably the way to do it.
You've doubled him up for domestic violence over the past four years.
That's right.
Did you point out what you've done?
Because in nearly every program, if anything, you've been on the property with him, haven't you?
You know, you haven't been in two years.
I figured that.
I figured that you were supporting the program.
That's right.
You financed him to a remarkable degree.
The court has now, the district court has said, we can't go forward with our disbandment.
We've got that damn thing so torn up now that it's going to be hard to put it together again.
we will kill i saw where they get where they sit there but you really have to do that
I get it from the other end, you know.
I get it from people who call and write to our educational program.
I have a university people that I know.
I've got people from Alabama talking about the space program.
I just answer them.
Yeah.
And I said, well, you know, I appreciate y'all got part of us, but we've got to get Houston to cut down on the use of the space.
But we had to, I guess.
So I said, I'm an actor.
And I said, after Houston, y'all come first.
So I get out and do that.
And the university people, I just say, I don't know anything about it.
They'll survive.
Oh, of course they'll survive.
But they're doing damn well financially.
That's the trouble is that part of the problem aren't too many damn associate professors running around.
That's exactly what happened.
That's exactly what happened.
Stanford has a program of $300 million that they're going to raise.
Stanford University, first year, they raised $100 million.
I just say it's a vote.
I vote for that same vote.
I don't think it's also a vote to vote.
spending is a vote for higher taxes or higher prices.
And a vote against more spending is a vote against higher prices and against higher taxes.
Now you just take your choice.
Do you want this program to where you want to spend this money for, or do you want higher taxes?
Right.
Take your choice.
But the point that people come down hardly at it is most of them aren't beneficiaries and aren't donors.
Right.
I've got a question.
Go ahead.
Let me down here for a moment.
Sure.
I'm afraid of this.
I probably don't do this.
Right.
But if you will, though,
That's what's coming.
He is the chairman.
Yes, he's the chairman of the Board of Dr. Kirkland.
He's also the chairman of Veterans Salutes on June the 2nd in Dallas, Texas.
They're going to have the damnedest celebration in the United States.
I've been clear with the past, at least I've talked to somebody at the White House about it.
They have already invited all of the people that have
and their advantage.
They're going to have a two-day affair.
Bob Hope's going to be the master serviceman.
They're going to go to a nine-minute television show, which is going to be carried by CBS and ABC.
They're also inviting many of the members of the Missing and Action Families.
They're going to fly in to the POWs and their families, wherever they are in the United States.
They're going to have a two-day affair coming in Saturday night with this tremendous show that each of the 50 governors are going to do.
But they're really going to find out.
They're going to find out.
The first official event that we're having for POWs is the, we're having a dinner for them here, just for them, to try to deal with us and their wives.
And we'll have their final salon on May 24th.
And all this comes on June 2nd.
I don't know whether it would be yielding to Lily to,
I don't know if it works quite enough to go down there with that, too, but maybe not.
No, I don't think it would, very frankly.
Frankly, I must say that that's one of the stars in our crown.
You know, those people that visit Great Plains are saying, you know, you really haven't made a public appearance with them at all.
With them at all.
And I'll certainly have thought, after the stories from the atrocities.
Oh, that's right.
You'll have them here, and that's wonderful, but this is going to be a closed vehicle.
This thing about us, we know we can't motor by people in the past for security and so forth.
Where would they have it?
In the State Department?
In the State Department.
They'll fill that place.
Of course, it's going to be a hell of an emotional place.
It involves all the talent out on the West Coast.
As I said, me and I ain't talking to them too that much.
They've got death without me, but I know you'll be there.
I'm sure this is an invitation from heaven, or probably in Chernobyl, but I mean, not in Chernobyl.
Let's come to our problem, the urban planning and so forth.
Let me say that, as you can imagine, it's spending a lot of time on a lot of water.
And it isn't really a question, I can assure you of it.
It's not a question anymore.
I guess you first have to come to the point as to what the hell the backs are.
Nobody can be shown, we don't care at all whether anybody's lying.
Except them.
The facts as far as we have been able to determine here, we have, there's also an investigation going on in my different routine, under my title of student board, the Iron Force, is that nobody
who is currently in the White House staff or who was on a period that had the knowledge, operating participation, and authority in that period.
I mean, that's the situation.
Now, on the other hand, there's the question in most people's minds that over at the campaign committee that there had to be knowledge and participation.
The question is, what of it?
Now, uh, Bruder has testified before the grand jury that he did not have property, did not participate.
Uh, there is strong reason to believe that that will be disproved.
Uh, but he's hanging to it.
Now that brings me to a big question.
What about my children?
And Joe has denied it.
I have never asked him.
And if you agree, I probably shouldn't ask him.
I don't want to be in a position where John actually will be able to say, he's running the committee and all the rest of it.
I have asked people here.
I've asked .
I've asked .
I mean, I said, no, I want to meet his children.
I've got to have a proper basis for .
And I've also, I mean, everybody's got to know
When I, when I, uh, step out, as I have, whether it's on the ground or not, that I, that I have at least, well, apart from, apart, in other words, from the other investigations that have taken place, I have asked, I have asked myself, I haven't conducted the investigation myself.
Very beneficial.
Uh...
My guess, based upon what I have heard, my guess is that Mitchell did not approve of the water.
My guess is that Mitchell did approve and did have to approve.
much lower budget, they asked for a million dollars, and they gave $250,000 for the purpose of campaign security.
And then from there on, Libby and this group of nutheads proceeded to do Watergate and 18 other different things.
But Watergate was the main thing, that was the only, I think Watergate is the major issue.
All the other stuff went through, like Seat Ready and that sort of thing.
It's just crap.
I mean, it's the kind of thing that happens with every campaign.
You know what I mean?
You have the only other guy, and you've got a big cup, and you've got a ton of nonsense.
But the Watergate thing is the important thing, because that's illegal.
The critical point is, did John Mitchell, did he receive reports he didn't know about the soldier?
I, Daniel, I know.
I haven't asked him.
He says nothing.
I don't know what the point is.
I think I'll be able to prove that he did.
And I don't know.
Now, you see, they're now questioning secretaries, inaugurators, you know, people like that and so forth, how many copies were made to them, where they were delivered and so forth.
And here comes the other point.
If a recruiter, if they get him, it will obviously be on, it would be to a person, you see.
Now the question is, if they get a recruiter, they won't get him again.
But the question is whether under those circumstances, Magruder had looked up the disability of the stranger.
The question is, does Magruder say anything about Jim?
So, what I'm simply telling you for your own information, Jim, don't get me on here, because it doesn't matter.
I'm sitting ahead, telling you for your own information that the owner of the person was probably
Now the question is, what makes you want to do it?
What do you want to do?
And I don't know what we are with.
In his own interest, rather than being, rather than being caught by a grand jury, which of course, as you can imagine, the U.S. and Chinese governments aren't terribly reluctant to do a former attorney general in the United States of Texas, which would be urgent.
the perjury about this goddamn thing.
And so I went and said, well, guys, I take full responsibility.
The White House doesn't know about the goddamn thing, which is true.
I take responsibility.
I must say that I was not running a tiny shot.
And this big plan was submitted, which I rejected.
I thought it was general.
And it was not general.
And I'm very, very sorry about that.
That's what we're going to do.
What you see is why, up to this point, it's been one of the earliest stonewalling.
So, there you are.
Now the question is, what can we do here?
Now, what we are planning, John Erdmann has been meeting with Erdmann and Baker.
trying to work out a procedure under which members of the White House staff, former members of the White House staff, charged with any kind of activity, whether it was proper or improper or illegal, can walk right into the committee.
Now, the best way to do it would be to go to a public session, particularly if, let's see if I got that right,
uh the question is the real question is whether
The person we're really concerned about is Colson, or John Colson.
He's not that close.
He's outside of anybody.
John Dean, who they know as John Dean, I mean, he's a young lawyer here and so forth.
But the real question is Hall.
And the question of Hall, of course, is very, very circumstantial.
Which, which I can assure you, he has kept, he has kept the honor.
He had absolutely no knowledge.
no participation, whatever.
I mean, he's a hard driver, but he doesn't do that.
And I think perhaps, you know, you could tell more about that sort of thing through a person's conduct at the time.
I was in Florida with him, and the damn story broke.
And I remember, I was, I was so goddamned amazed.
I said, what in the hell is this?
It's a joke.
And I heard a human, and what in the name of God is this?
And all of it was just a surprise.
So, and also the other thing is, at the end of the period that was going on, the LIC all over every day, I cannot believe that there would not have been a guy who would have come in and said, look, we've got a very good source that's telling this thing.
Never once did he ever mention a thing.
Never once.
I don't mean by that to be, you can say, well, a guy like that, maybe he knew.
he didn't want the president involved in it, why not?
but, of course the other line, the other line he said, maybe it was such a dry hole it was a reporting, word reporting, I think that is true also, it was a dry hole uh, that's why they were backing her, because they didn't have the bug on O'Brien, O'Brien wanted to call his name Oliver, and then get rid of him, but not, um, had no effect on the party.
Okay, he has a, the main thing at the present time is that
Baldwin cannot do his job here unless and until he gets out and gets himself basically in the public mind at least exonerated.
Now, you take it from there, Tony, what do you think we ought to do?
And as I said earlier, he's had two talks with Irvin, one the last time, one with Irvin Baker.
They're making some progress.
The scope, of course, has to be limited.
You must look into how did you develop the campaign issues and how did you sort of finance this Democrats or Democrats.
I don't know.
Bullshit.
That's not fair.
It must have been hilarious.
Also, we're going to be sure that in the political matters that we're going into, I think there are 86 cases of violent demonstrations and all that sort of thing that occurred, some of which were directed to a government headquarters in the area.
It's one of the most dangerous ones.
That's just a sort of blurb.
But coming to this one, it's really a question of what to do and so forth.
Of what to do at this time.
And let me say that there have been evolutions.
I know the services.
I think the main thing to do is to cut our losses and get it behind us as quickly as we can.
But I haven't any, and yet, I have to wait for the goddamn grand jury to burst to a certain extent.
Because they've called everybody, they haven't called all of them, because they didn't have, and believe me, they've had the word.
I told one of these, I said, I've got that.
If there's anything, if you can get anybody, the wire must get his ass down there before that grand jury.
But they've had it changed, they've had it strong, they've had it usually worked for all of them.
And they've had him seat ready.
And so they run the White House pretty good.
And they're continuing to do good.
But I think at the present time, the grand jury has found Amy pretty much sort of a hooter.
Amy must have been a joke.
That's where she stands.
No, I mean, Sam heard it, but he had too much affection for both of those sons.
But he's going to be more interested.
The guy is here, and he wants to do him in.
And it could be that, you know, you come in there clean as a houndstooth.
Most of the time, you need to tell me you didn't know about that patrol.
You need to tell me that, you know.
Well, this is him that don't have all this prepared to go and respond.
This is what I told him.
I said, now, I said, hey, you're on trial.
I said, you can go up there and keep your sense of humor.
You can at times be tough with them and just smile at them and say, well, sir, you know, I'm not going to answer that.
You know, I'm not going to do that.
And just make a, I said, unless you're prepared to take some active lessons.
And then act when you get up there.
That's very good advice.
I said, then don't go.
But if you're prepared to really go and put on a hell of a show for the American public, then that's something else to do.
Let me ask you a fundamental point.
Should he go?
Well, I think it depends on what I'm talking about.
I would approach it this way, Mr. President.
And there's certain things that you start with knowing.
On one hand you have it, or on the other hand you have it.
Between those two, they don't find out what happened.
Sure, but you have to assume they are.
Maybe they won't.
Maybe they won't.
There's too much evil in this town.
Well, I would find that book.
And actually, John, they should.
Well, that's right.
They should.
It's a hell of a lot less so-called crime.
I think the way that Syracuse has been 40 years for that word, that's unheard of.
That's an outrage.
That forces people to talk.
It's a story.
That's so good.
Well, let's see.
Well, what would the civil libertarian say if this were against the law?
Well, then comments all go to him.
Right.
Those two things.
So you have to assume it's going to come out.
There's going to be comments, right?
Now the question is, and the trouble is, because at this moment, you don't have anybody masterminding how it's going to come out.
Yeah.
That's true.
Colts runs up to actual attitude to the students, and they're, all right, this doesn't help you or anybody.
I'll tell you what.
I'll tell you what.
puts everybody on the gun, throughout, immediately.
Now, that's right, now I've talked to everybody so I can thank you.
Sure.
All right.
I have talked to Peter and I, because, uh, what in the name of Christ, it's been out there.
Nobody, you and I, of all people, I think you see John Mitchell in the room.
They're the two tiniest, nicest, great, cleverest, compassionate men I know right now.
Also, they were all doing whatever they did for a good cause, especially on that.
They're loyal, they're decent.
Every good human trait almost you can find in a human trait.
And so it's going to be tragic if they're involved.
But if they're involved, they'll come out.
If I were you, I would get, as I told Bob the other day, I'd get a lawyer.
Or two.
Or three.
I sure would get more than that.
I don't know who it would be.
uh but inside inside major common park he's involved in this great thing but not the but not the uh the watergate let me ask you this curiously enough uh it's totally had nothing to do with the campaign in that sense we really don't remember that's government apparently it's jewish but beyond that he
He is one of the best trial lawyers in the United States.
And I can put it totally on him.
I haven't got it totally on him for the rest of the time.
That's why I had to hand it to him.
And now he's down with Michigan.
And we'll agree to it.
But that's the problem.
The problem, John, is this.
We cannot control what you agree to.
But we can talk to their lawyer.
We're not just going to be able to deal with their things or anything.
You've got that part.
You know what the Justice Department knows very much.
Talk to Dick.
Right, Gary, we try.
All right, so it's difficult.
It's difficult.
It's difficult.
But at least you get a fee or so that you have somebody calling the shots here.
Right.
And once you find out, once you get the best estimate you can possibly get about whether Mitchell was involved or who were attending or what extent, they can decide what to do.
But until you get that, I don't know what you're going to do.
I don't know what you're going to do.
I don't know what you're going to do.
Well, if the facts justify it, what do you mean now?
If Mitchell is, let us write a scenario.
Suppose we find that the grand jury is going to be sent on Magruder's show.
That'd be my question.
If Magruder's involved, then I would try to say that Magruder's lawyer, look, let Garvin say it.
And Magruder's like, look, Magruder's involved.
Period.
He lied.
Now, I think it would be useful to write a changed damn story, which he could do, which he'd do before they catch him.
He could do it as a matter of being a very embarrassing thing, but if he doesn't have it, they can't get him on purchase.
That's correct.
Now, that gets, that power will get him involved.
All right.
All right.
But that's better than perjury.
Yeah, damn right.
It's better than perjury.
Because that's the worst of both worlds.
They say you work at Bob's and number two, Eli's bank.
So they get you on both accounts.
So somebody ought to be advised of you with respect to that.
And somebody has to orchestrate what these people are doing until you say that you can't do it.
Because if you don't try, as of right now, everybody you want to know is for himself.
He's in business for himself.
He's in business for himself.
And you couldn't have a worse situation.
And you have to work it to a conclusion somehow as soon as possible, as you say, cut your losses.
But one thing we have done is the negotiations with Irving.
uh, which is, they don't want him because he's apparently a jackass and a great bad witness, but nevertheless they want him on first.
Earl is now a guy very promptly in the system that if he goes on, that they then must call everybody he names next to them.
In other words, get all of them posted.
Both of them will be probably indirectly named by one or the other end of every name.
If we want our people up there first, now that, uh, that, uh,
Now that at first gives us, after our people are out and they testify and so forth, that gives the committee something to gnaw on for three or four months.
But, so be it.
At least we get out our story and tell your client, yes, you need to do that, yes.
Now there's another way to do it, too.
There's another way to do it.
There's another way to trust the committees.
You see, the damage, the attacks have already been made on all of them.
By the way, all of them are just up and saying, because the damn committee is going to put this up for the first time, I'm going to make a statement like, let's have mail in the next two or three days.
And here's everything I know.
Just as I'm talking to you right now.
The problem with that, of course, is that it gives them too many times to check and so forth, so they can question anything that gets out there.
But in a sense, if you look at that, they probably can do that anyway.
But consider that for a moment.
And you see what I mean is rather than, rather than going out there and having the White House man be dragged out before the committee and the truth dragged out of the White House man and saying basically the committee is getting all this stuff, we, so-called the White House, in effect, they say we want everything out of here.
We put it on ourselves and say here's the story.
And let the committee conduct its investigation.
Does that appeal to you?
I think if Bob, and I accept his, what he told me the other night, that he really knows nothing about it, that under those circumstances, I think he'll take every opportunity he can to say it.
In every form.
Absolutely.
And be out there.
Absolutely.
And take it to my brother.
Absolutely, this one I said go, go tell him he would have to do this, he would have to do this, he did, he thought he was going to have to admit that he did prove the Chapin Recompense.
Right.
But he ought to just say that he started, he said he regressed in some of those activities, but it was, yes, it was a big, tough operation, it was set up.
It was set up now, and the reason it was set up is for the
We said, they're not trying to protect themselves, but I charged them.
I said, we set up a right to vote.
We were tired of you upsetting our ideals in San Francisco and in Los Angeles and in New York.
And I knew what you were going to do.
You were going to try to do just what you did to Democrats.
You were going to try to do to us what they did to Democrats in 1968.
We were afraid of our convention.
We thought that we ought to try at least to protect ourselves.
And yes, I did go, but that's a great thing.
And you say, he led.
And you say, if I had lived it in vain, then half of it would have walked in vain.
And you say, if I had lived it in vain, we have to be loyal to ourselves, we have to protect ourselves against what we knew were going to be the violence.
They talk about it several times in the Revenant in Christ.
But you know that the entire campaign, whatever was there in it, he was never shouting down.
Never.
Alright.
I still know that in our campaign,
And, you know, I ordered it.
I said, don't.
I don't want any burden.
Because, you know, I know how hard it had to be the first time.
And I did also leave it an hour ago.
But I never appeared without the outshining to the actors.
And in several places, it was violent.
That's the way it was.
And then, on their convention, if you remember their convention, of course, you remember, all the radicals were inside.
I mean, there was nobody breaking up when it was their convention.
And they tore the hell out of ours.
It wasn't as bad as the tolerators said, but they punctured the tires and smashed the windows.
They had tear gas.
And I went down to make my speech.
I was first.
I had followed the barn with all of that and documented it with newspaper accounts and little pictures.
And when he gets up there, I had him say all that.
They just said, this is why I did it.
The senator interrupted him and said, well, I thought about it.
They just said, now, sir, would you mind if I ask you a question?
You've charged me with setting up for this type of an operation.
I want to tell you why I did it.
I didn't set that, but I agreed to it.
I agreed to finance it as a protective measure.
Let me ask you this.
Is it your opinion that the damage they will do to Bob by this kind of hearing and all the rest of it, with the white candidates going to Seoul,
And here is the .
I think he did survive.
I think, yes.
I think if you get up there and he's innocent and completely candid and just take these things on and be prepared to take them on, as I know he can, I think he comes out as a very strong person, a very strong person.
And if you don't believe him, you have the minds of people that, first of all, you have the minds of people that are interlocking between the subreddit for everybody and they're not connected, not at all.
So you need to separate that out first.
And second, this is a great operation law, no violation of any laws.
And the only reason we did this was to protect the device.
And if you don't do that right now, you'd have a problem of divorcing your son.
That's what it's all about, for this little boy.
There's no question about that.
The President seems to have said a message right here.
Well, what about the suggestion that Haldeman has to go then?
No, I don't think he has to go.
You see, that's where, that's where some would come out.
Well, they'd say, well, why?
You know, why?
They'd say that he should do the same.
The President and Nixon should do the same.
Haldeman is, I can argue with that.
I assume he's guilty.
That's, I assume he's guilty.
True.
But this is also the point.
The point is, the point is, they'd say, well,
No, no, I'm just getting my arguments and I just want to ask you, if I simply say that if he's innocent, and I believe it to be, and you believe it to be, then you do have a great disservice to the justice system.
And after all, sir, you've got to have something to do with it.
You've got to have something to do with it.
I wouldn't have done anything to go with it, but I would have did.
You have to have something to do with it, but if they're not the man's guilty, that's something else.
You have to look down the road.
Digging your responsibility to the office you own is probably greater than your loyalty to the man.
But where a man is innocent, digging your loyalty to your office doesn't mean that you have to do the sacrifice.
If it is, then the office is no damn thing.
You've got to be able to stand by this man.
As you know, everybody feels he should be.
That's correct.
And I think Bob is smart enough and he was informed enough to go up there and defend himself and protect himself.
And frankly, I think he could make the company look better.
I think he could make them look like they're arrested.
I think any couple that got into his job, I'm not guilty.
He's got to improve the position he's in today.
Yeah.
Because they've got him in a terrible position.
Because they've got him in a terrible position.
He can't lose.
He can't lose.
Now just what period of time he does it, who he follows, I'd ask the following if I could tell you.
Mr. McCord does it, yes.
Mr. McCord gets up there and testifies for it.
Now I have a hard one to manage, you know.
And just say that he's asking for it.
You could even say that he is, but he doesn't answer.
Well, you could even go before McCord or something.
He could say before the committee does it, he could put out his statement.
before the committee meets, before the committee meets, you know, will they go on?
Well, I would let them try, I would let them, you see, again, Glenn's judgment might be better than mine, I mean, I'm not sure I'll follow that up with all the judges who want to justify it, but I would like to let them get McCord way out of the way.
Obviously, most of them say that McCord was nothing to Pearson, everything to Pearson.
Well, let him get out of the way.
If Bob puts out his statement before him, McCord shuts out.
He's very careful about what he says about Alderman.
He doesn't want to contradict what Alderman's statement says.
And the Canadian federal court doesn't want to push him to involve Alderman because they pretend to respect Alderman's statement more than they would McCord's.
Here's the thing.
So, they let out on McCord.
He said, he called him with what I'd like to see him do.
They just let McCord get up and say, yes, he said this, and I understood this, and I gathered that, and then let you do a public commemoration.
You've got to hit a finger.
They're going to say, I understand.
But say, you don't know that.
He didn't say that to you.
He didn't pin it down for you.
Clearly, you're saying that.
And then let Horland come over and ask of you.
And I posture in such a way that he has asked you to waive.
The executive perfected respecting him so that he can go testify because his name had been brought into the area by the court.
And he ought to be in the court and say, I will go testify.
We're in right now.
As soon as you get through to the court.
And I've asked the president to pay the executive perfected respect to me because I've been blind.
This man's blind about me.
And she said, I'm going to stay.
I'm going to stay for today and I will go testify publicly.
Let him put out a statement in a day or two days or more, the committee will hear it and let him go up and testify.
Now, I think this is more effective because if he can leak the core into extravagant statements, and then a parliament can just cut him off, just really show that he's either lying or it's complete hearsay, then you tend to discredit the whole committee by indirection in the minds of most people.
I doubt, I doubt that they've proven it then.
Here again, this is why a leader needs to be checked.
Oh, absolutely.
We want to know every damn thing.
Because FBI's interviewed all these secretaries.
I think so.
Well, that's what I understand.
But I see what they say.
I see what you want to say.
I'm assuming this is all going to be done before all of those who testified to you tonight.
Sure, sure.
So if you can get one man to work together I would suggest one other thing that once that has been done that you then think about another outside lawyer that you can bring a man unquestioned in whom you have a conversation
Uh, if he had been living, it would have been a trauma to me.
Yeah, I know.
Uh, I don't know who it would be today.
It wouldn't be an RC for me.
I don't know.
I don't have any good ideas.
I mean, what do you know?
Maybe it's her right now.
But I don't think there's that good a trial over here.
You bring him in to the record.
So the purpose of visiting was to let the environment regenerate him and gave him all of the information in the event that you needed an outside lawyer to be a storyboard.
Oh, I see.
You spoke to her.
Or a defender.
Just in case.
Yeah.
Now, uh, you would do that, right?
Not as soon as you get the facts.
Right.
But who, uh...
by a spokesman.
You and I originally rather that person be a spokesman.
I'd love to be a spokesman.
Yes, because Lynn's an in-house man.
Yeah, that's right.
Right back to you.
Because we want to get it away from you.
If you want to get it away from us, why not?
So any of these fellows who might have trouble.
That's right.
Then they've got a lawyer out here who understands it and can take it on and say, this is a sham.
You can use him as a spokesman.
Because what's hard with those, for instance, is testifiers.
Did he not say nothing more?
I don't know.
I don't know what we need to do.
Who was, I was thinking of this fellow who was the dean of the law school of Texas, right?
We consider it's a pretty good court.
I think so.
I don't know who he is.
I haven't heard from him in years.
I don't know if he's dead.
He's dead.
I don't know if he's dead.
I don't know if he's dead.
I don't know if he's dead.
I don't know if he's dead.
I'm sure he could take off, I'm sure he would take off.
I don't know.
And come to it, you may never use it.
Just to get it out.
And you go back, you go back to the McCarthy hearings.
Yes.
Do you remember Welsh?
All these witnesses, it's an hour-by-hour, day-by-day thing, and you don't know what you're going to do.
Sure, they just come and try to, and you just need some outside lawyer that's following this thing.
All the time, who has some independent judge that you can call and represent, if you want to represent someone, the secretary.
Or somebody else.
So in the case of Paul and John, you wouldn't listen to those like the white that's interested in Paul and must go, oh hell, because by value, he is tied to this thing and he had to know it because of his position and so forth and so on.
You wouldn't do that question.
you know here's the argument for it they say this is the way the president divorces from this whole contact thing and uh so and it's true you have to realize the moment this is the argument he's out
It gets a lot of steam out of their hearing.
That's true.
The other side of that, Ron, is the one that you mentioned.
The President back away from an incident.
He's just going to shut you down because he's been doing his job.
I don't have to worry.
The whole world is not my problem.
You are.
That's true.
They're not that horrible.
They're after you.
They're after you.
You threw them.
Now you here, all I've got to say is that this proves that all that's guilty is evil, and you sacrificed it.
And you just threw it into the wolves to protect yourself.
But you have to admit it.
That's a good argument.
That's a good argument.
Now, as I say, the way it's guilty, then you, that's another, that's another matter.
Sir, I'm convinced he did it.
And so I think all of them do other things that are not a good liar.
And so you write it out.
What if you watched him over 60, you've watched him now since last year, almost a year, did you say, you know, what his reaction was, you know, about the fact that he had the digital, or of course he did, you know, something, well, he'd get it like, he'd have something like 3,000, you know, one out about what I, yeah, because I tried to bring it around, you know, like,
Let me say one other thing before I have to run for the session, I'm sorry.
You didn't get to meet me yet, you told me you were going to go on the internet.
Yeah, I had to go, I had to go.
Yeah, I thought I was going.
You know,
I know that, you know, with the current state of things, this problem, you know, of politics and switching and so on and so on is certainly not an opportunity to do anything.
What I hope, though, in your case that you would very well consider is that it's very important, John, that as we understand the country,
you know, that you do not encourage and discourage any of your friends.
It's a matter of how much you encourage.
And as far as your mood is true,
But you know that nevertheless, that's what the situation is.
They're in no way strong.
And straws may be that he can put it together in a different way, but he's got to know in his own heart that it's going to be him.
He does want that.
I didn't know it was going to be him.
As against Kennedy, I would support him.
I believe he would.
I would support any number one side.
I don't support a rock and roll or a reggae.
Any.
On the other hand, let's face it, John Brockmore may have been too old and would have a hell of a time playing very hard.
And he also said with great respect, for instance, he'd have a hell of a time being in his office because he's, you know, otherwise you're going to
or extra drive, or anything.
I mean, you cannot lie through this office.
Not the office, right?
Each of us does it in a different way, and I always agree with that.
I'm hard.
I don't lie.
No, you sure don't.
You don't lie.
Now, it just happens to be, you know, instead of what they just say online, that particular thing or thing, here you are, live well, feel well, enjoy life, all right?
And frankly, you're the only one that can stand on us.
I just want you to know that that's my conclusion.
And I don't ever want to pressure you.
I'm telling this without switching anything.
But I want you to know that that's my conclusion.
And I don't want you to come to me whenever you want to do anything.
I was prepared to move.
I was prepared to move.
I was prepared to move about a month ago.
And it just opened the way to getting in and getting a lot of it.
That's right.
And I remember all the years he had gone down and responded after that death.
That's right.
Thank God.
But anyway, I'm prepared to do that.
And I bought it with him and I said, this is the truth.
I said, what difference does it make what I do?
Nobody cares.
There's no conflict.
Let me tell you the basis of it.
In this room, please.
for 1,500 people at lunch.
I said, just let me tell you what my thought process was.
I said, no secret of that.
I said, first question I have for you, I came by the philosophy and policy of the Democratic National Committee, and I think I've made that decision.
Now the next question is, well, I'm just retired from politics, or if I'm going to remain, I have no choice but to go with the Republican Party.
And that's the way I've managed it.
But I said, whatever I do to decide on the basis
what I believe is the best interest of the country.
And I said, now, uh, and that's a major, major innovation.
It's not going to be a personal innovation.
So I'm just saying this over and over and over and over.
Right?
It wasn't my understanding.
I said, I'm going to try to achieve the most advantageous time I can.
Where we get the most mileage out of making the change.
One thing we have to deal with is trying to figure it out.
This thing ain't going to let up soon.
No.
Well, it may.
It'll have things to balance on it.
Well, I guess if we shouldn't, we'd get you away from it.
All of them.
All of them away from it.
All of them.
I guess so.
Well, yeah.
I think after that one, the others might go for it.
Well, that's good.
That's good.
That's good.
I can't go, but I'll get him.
No, no, no, he can't go.
We're going to go this weekend.
Are you going to Florida this weekend?
Next weekend.
Next weekend.
It'll be good then, this weekend.
No, no, I just have to be, I want to see your money.
Who is this?
Oh, no.
Thank you.