On April 13, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon, Peter J. Brennan, Kenneth R. Cole, Jr., and White House photographer met in the Oval Office of the White House from 11:53 am to 12:59 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 895-020 of the White House Tapes.
Transcript (AI-Generated)This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.
Well, if you ever do, I'd like you to convey to him my proudness of coming here.
Well, I said, let me tell you, President, he can't be as proud of you anymore, that you're a man of a foreign country, and we have some of our own America drawn out of Duncan.
Well, here's what he said to me that he wanted me to convey to him.
He said, I called my father in San Fernando, Atlanta, and I told him that we will be united here, and we're going to have this dinner.
And he said, my father, and he said, that's why I come up to you, because I'd like to do what my father would like me to at least try.
My father said, if you have an opportunity to convict the President of the United States, my father, I wish you would.
Although I'm an English subject living in England, I think that he's one of the greatest men for freedom and peace in the world.
I think what he's done has been wonderful.
And we're with him 100%.
And I'm proud that my sons served him and risked his life because this man can do more than maybe people realize for all the world, including England.
And so would you give an opportunity to convict him?
I'm glad I had an opportunity to tell you.
I do it very well.
Well, I thought it was all a criticism of the draft guide, and it's nice to have this, and I'm a little bit embarrassed to be an Irishman and have to say an Englishman, didn't I?
Well, you know, I'll say, uh, excuse me, but I'll tell you, you know, a lot of police people, they just come out like anglers or something.
I'm glad to see that they're feeling it, and what they went through, and I'm sorry to go through it, but the fact that I come about this torture now has proven that everything you've said and we've said it,
Prove us to be right, but we should go to James Bond and, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh,
I want to take some of your time to talk with George Bush about Governor Cahill.
He thought that I ought to go through that with you because that represents a follow-up to the meeting we had the previous week with the governor.
He has some more legal problems up there.
He's got a case involving campaign contributions
and some devious things that were done with the contributions to avoid the payment of taxes.
No, it's not by him, but it was by his campaign manager.
And he asked us to intervene with the US Attorney up there.
And at least if we couldn't stop the whole thing, which was going to lead to a grand jury hearing, to ask him to hold off until after the primary.
I looked into it, and there were too many people involved in the thing.
It leaked out in the paper anyway.
But I had to tell them we just couldn't do anything to help them out.
And George Bush and I talked about it.
George agreed?
Yes, sir.
He sure did.
He was the only one.
He just can't get into the position.
And Cale's got to know this.
He's a farmer.
He's a lawyer.
He's got to screw around with the right of their hands.
He's got to.
Well, there was just no way to help him out.
I'm not so sure how understanding of all that he is, and he may at some time, if he sees you, mention all that, but he should be apprised of it.
The other thing that you've been mentioning a number of times, the veterans legislation, I just thought I would catch up on that.
We've been, after the meeting with Doran, have worked pretty closely with him, and I
The three problem bills that he had, one on the veterans' cemeteries, we've got cleaned up so that if we can hold that position through the conference, you'll be able to sign that bill.
The drug bill, we have got bottled up in the House, and that won't come out at all this year.
And we think that by working with the AMA and by working with people on the committee, in addition to Chairman Dorn, that we've probably got the Veterans Medical Act in a position where if it gets to you at all, it'll be one you can sign.
So we're not going to let you get in a position of having to veto
one of those bills.
The Older Americans Act, we think we can work that out with Cui.
The issue there is...
Yes, sir.
You know, they were, our call was that he will stand up and fight all these vetoes, but they said that, but as one of the Democrats said, we shouldn't have this congregation, let's try to cooperate.
Well, now, I'm all for cooperation if we don't, if they don't, you know what I mean?
And, you know, the symbolic of winning these first two is so important.
Let's win the big ones, but cooperate on the little ones.
That's the best way I would say, right down the line.
We, we,
We are trying to do that.
Bill Timmons and I have talked about some kind of overt move on your part to say, come on, let's work out some of these things.
And I'm afraid in doing that at this particular point in time, you would wind up trading away 90% of your principles just to be able to work with the Congress.
No, sir.
It's much better to work behind the scenes.
Individualism.
Individualism behind the scenes.
Absolutely.
You're right about that.
I don't want to indicate that we're going to let the Congress come to us and suggest, oh, we want a couple of them.
How do you think of the requirement?
Well, I was going to mention that one of the concerns that the Secretary had, although he didn't mention it, is this Public Employment Act of the Emergency Employment Act.
The Congress is going to move ahead with that.
They have the Senate yesterday, the committee reported out a bill that's about, it authorizes or appropriates over a billion dollars, a billion and a quarter dollars for next fiscal year and unlimited sums for the year beyond that.
The House has a bill in total is four and a quarter billion dollars over a three-year period.
And I think that we have to veto that.
Well, I think we do.
Yes, sir.
In the committee now, before it gets to the floor, we'd like to be in a position of indicating that you would agree to that bill.
You've got to.
The employment is good.
The most concerned people are the labor people.
They're always concerned about that.
The mayors are concerned, but the mayors are concerned because they're losing some money to pay people that they really ought to be paying themselves anyway.
And we have a good public argument.
Do you think we can sustain a veto?
Yes, sir.
I think we can sustain any veto that we have to sustain with the exception of a veteran's veto.
I think that that would be very hard.
But I think now...
I will not veto veterans.
Well, I don't...
Unless it's a jackass, a total, you know... Well, we're not going to get you in that kind of a position if we can help it at all.
We've got very good support for the Urban Community Revenue Sharing Act, which will go to the Hill next Tuesday.
Jim Lynn's going to brief on that.
He's doing a good job.
But they briefed the Senate and House leaders on it yesterday.
And he's got good bipartisan support on that.
And that's going to relieve a lot of this pressure we've been getting about cutting back programs from the mayors and that kind of thing.
In other words, then you will have a program.
be in place.
Do you think we can get that passed?
Yes, sir.
Yes, sir.
Based on the reports, I think we can get it passed.
I think what's going to happen to us is on that, that they're going to tie it to a housing bill.
And it may not be a housing bill that we want at this particular point in time.
We're going to have to be very careful as to how that all works out.
How do you think of the economic staples?
Are you in the middle of the right or not?
I have been on the periphery.
I'm sorry.
It's just one of those damn things that
It's an awful thing, because so much of it is what the public feels and what the public perceives, and they don't understand the technicalities of it.
Well, they want all control of prices, and the Congress is pandering to their views.
Now, the problem there is, in my judgment, once we get on that in any way that looks to be permanent, we'll never get away from that again.
Never.
Well, the thing I'm concerned about is that
Moving in the control area, if you move to a heavy control area, it's going to raise all the labor costs.
There is the real problem.
They are never going to stand still for it.
You ought to listen to Brennan in that respect.
Say, look, for God's sake, you know, these control bills are going to lead to a confrontation with labor.
We ought to fight that.
Labor talks about free prices, but not wages.
It can't be done.
There ain't no way.
is it might make people feel good for a while, like a pep pill, but there's going to be a hell of a lot of time, and what we would do is destroy the boom, you see, and not work on the inflation, you see.
And we had worse and both worse.
Today we've got an inflation with the boom.
Well, that's all a lot better than inflation without a boom.
Which is what we had for a while.
That's right, which we had in the 70s, 71 period.
Right now we've got a boom on and I think we've got to keep it going.
And that, of course, will wash out some of the inflation.
Well, there is another bill up there that we would like to signal veto on, and that's the Emergency Medical Services Act.
That's the bill that we'll provide.
Helicopters for ambulance service and ambulances for cities that don't have sufficient facilities and that kind of thing.
The problem with it is that nobody really knows what they're doing.
They're talking about a quarter of a million dollars a year, a quarter of a billion a year, and it's just way over in terms of authorization.
We have a test program, so we've got something, but the money's too much on this, so we...
That and I guess the only other thing is that the legal services corporation bill will go up next week.
I understand how he wants us to go further with that.
Well, he wants us to farm the whole thing out to the states.
You don't think that's stable, is that it?
I don't think it'll fly at all.
I've made a number of phone calls around on that thing and it may...
It's a good idea because it lets you break your relationships with some of these bomb throwers who have been out there running these legal services programs.
But there's no reason why we can't still sever those relationships with a national corporation.
And the state program will just buy you more trouble than it's worth.
In terms of selling it now and the public perception about your concern, Atlanta won't get through the Congress.
If it would get through the Congress, it might be worth trying.
But it won't get through.
All right.
I guess let's play it that way.
Crane, some of the very, the documentary you mentioned to me last night.
But they can't have it their way all the way.
We've gone very far with that already.
That's what the budget's about.
That's what the OEO is about.
That's what's flushing that.
A few other things.
We fought this battle.
I must say, though, that I feel that the rather dim or, shall we say, pessimistic prognosis we got from Scott and Ford about two months ago has been turned around, hasn't it?
Yes, you're very much so.
Well, I thought that this morning's news summary, I haven't seen a whole poll, had a recap of a Harris poll that indicates people's feeling about taxes.
And I think a lot of people in the Congress are starting to see this.
If we can now move to solidify on these vetoes.
That's why I hit it so hard in my Vietnam speech.
Because people hear it that way and they
That's right.
That's right.
I can't find very many people for him, except maybe Senator Muskie.
Well, of course, the tax reform thing is the kick that they're on.
They think they can get all the money out of that.
Incidentally, I want to be sure, this is not going to be a few, not what it is to an extent, but
I hope to God we can keep the Congress from passing a tax reform bill that goes into it that has an estate tax, a capital gains on estate, you know, at death.
That would be terrible.
Well, I think that also, another thing is that they're holding up raising the capital gains tax from 35 to 50 percent, extending it to a year, even if that's going to go through the Congress.
That probably is more passable than the other one.
I think, uh, it's hard to say yet.
Tito and all his Wilbur girls, I believe.
Yeah.
It's hard to say.
Well, I don't know what's going to happen on the floor.
No, you don't know what's going to happen on the floor, but maybe...
There's still some church you can pull up there, fortunately, so you don't get some of the bad stuff.
Thank you very much.
You know, we would, uh, we would have no problem, really, with Detroit.
Hell yes, we would.
If the tax bill has our Asian girl killed school tonight.
I'd have a hell of a time vetoing it.
No, that's right.
That would be very good.
I would agree with you, sir.
But the death tax business or the estate tax thing is something that, you know, Secretary Brennan's constituency, they don't think about that.
But if they did start to think about it, they'd realize that, you know, they work for 40 years.
50 years.
They have my home.
They tried to build up a little in the savings account and what have you.
That kind of thing is going to be lost.
Even that?
That's right.
I hadn't thought of that.
I hadn't thought of that either.
Yes, sir.
Although they have a very high extension, I suppose.
Well, they could.
But in my judgment, that doesn't prevent us in the process of this business demagoguing along those lines a little bit.
Sure.
And that kind of pressure can help to keep that kind of bill from coming down.
Thank you.
Okay.
I hope you're feeling better.
Yes, sir.
I won't get on again.
It's right.
You had childhood diseases when you were older.
I had measles when I was about 41 in the Congress.
Well, I said that's why I know you, but that's now I understand that our childhood diseases are not meant for us adults.
That's right.
Well, hey, how are you?
I'm good, Mr. President.
How are you today?
Oh, you've been so busy.
I've been able to see you around.
I see you at a dinner now.
Sit over here.
You've got Mark.
You've got your son here on your side, right?
You've got other people.
I'm the chicken fighter, yes, sir.
I think I'm all... You've got a little late in life.
I sure did.
Well, my daughters told me they had to share it with me.
They didn't want me to miss out, so...
I have a meeting next week on a number of general things, but you have a number of your stuff, so basically it's not in the cabinet.
That is not going into the cabinet, I don't know.
Like I saw Morgan out in California, he had, for example, Alaska Pipeline, something that's not, shouldn't be, and he's got to carry it out in the Indians, and so I talked to him.
And so we, whenever you've got things that need to be, or shall we say, independent of, or particularly your dishes compared to others, we should have a talk about it.
Sometimes if you want to elevate the cap to, when I say elevate it, I'm not going to use the word is.
You may want to just bring it up in a cap meeting.
In other words, if it involves something that other departments are interested in and so forth and so on.
And most of the time, in fact, many times it should be.
Or in the meeting that you have with the economic lawyer, Schultz and so forth and so on.
The more we can get it done there, the better.
First let me say that I
I realize you took a lot of heat from our friend George, but it was predictable.
I mean, and there'll be more from time to time.
But the point, the fact of the matter is, as you recognize and as you said, is that
As you know, we've had to roll butts pretty hard on a couple of things lately.
And as I looked over those option papers on those various things, you won more than half, which I think you've been a very effective advocate for your point of view.
And I want you to know that I want you to fight for what you think.
I'll give great weight to your recommendations when that comes in.
Thank you.
Many times I read down the thing and I say, oh, he's an actor, and I say, Brennan over here.
But tell me on this youth differential thing.
I thought that actually we made a rather modest proposal there.
And apparently he just hit the roof on it.
I thought it would be interesting or something like that.
Well, I think he's made up his mind that he wouldn't buy this on any condition.
One of the fears he has is that this will open the door for employers to hire more youth than adults.
There are some adults who aren't employed, adults with very little skill, especially minorities, lack of education, and they would be shunned aside by the youth who would get 88% of the minimum.
Now, he also is using something already which doesn't stand out, that this is going back to child labor.
Now, we know the daisies are apparently gone.
We don't have the factories anymore.
They've never seen them again.
They've come up or some down, but this is what they do again.
I understand that the previous administration, they have always skipped around the Ute differential then.
I mean, I think it's... What is the situation on that?
They never proposed it, though, is it?
They never...
Well, they think that they're going to get it by.
They think they're going to get it by there, not with the $250 an hour, but they think they're going to get it by with the new differential drought, and that they're going to get it by with coverage for municipal or public employees.
This is me.
Well, they have some support of that, because they'll have oppositions.
I don't want you to have to veto it.
And I'm trying, I'm eating with me, I call them up, and I've been keeping my cool, which is pretty hard, but I'm keeping my cool.
You're exactly right.
And when you do meet with him, you just ought to say, you know, I'm talking about this thing, and then look here, you know, he can blast off, everybody can enter him away, you know.
Well, you see, I think he's more embarrassed now, because I said, I wouldn't attack him, and I said, he, they all understood when I took this job that I would do.
I have certain moral and ethical beliefs of my own, and one is that I at least can be heard.
And I'm being heard.
I'm talking to the president and indirectly to people I trust to carry my message to the president.
And some of my views were accepted and some were not.
As part of a team, I have to accept that.
If the president doesn't agree with me, I don't say to him, well, I quit, because this is all ridiculous.
Mr. President, you see, the thing I'm looking at is that I'm not in the account of all the organics.
I told you that when I accept the job, I leave that behind.
I have to worry about everybody.
The non-union people are the biggest.
But I am concerned, as I promised you with the next three and a half years, that you have to go, that you can do the things you'd like to do at home with all the pressures.
I'd like to be able to help you to take some of them pressures off.
And we've been doing it.
We've been doing good up to now.
And I think this is what you started with.
Oh, we've been making miles like mad.
And even businessmen come to me and say, sir, because of this flat.
Well, this has opened up a schism here.
Not as much as it could go and head it off.
What is the heart of it?
The youth differential.
The youth differential is one, and of course the public employees.
Now, I've explained to public employees that I thought the position taken by the administration had some...
Probably got there.
No, I didn't.
Frankly, I like public employees.
I'd rather deal with a good union than I would with this scatterbrained thing.
You know what I'm talking about?
Like the postman, if you give us a good post, you can really make the deal.
He has not told me any of that, and he knows it.
The problem you've got is that the state and the local government are still afraid of the law.
Yes, sir.
They really give you the business.
We've got to work with these governors.
We are working.
Your move now to decentralize things and send it back to local government.
One of the two of the things I raised as an argument was,
The federal government didn't include the states when they passed the Civil Rights Act, and they didn't include the states when they passed the Discrimination of Age Act.
But then I'm aware that both of these are not an economic issue.
Because they could be, but in most cases they wouldn't be.
Because if you're talking about a man being black or white, or a woman being black or white, or a Protestant or a Catholic or anything else, they can still do the job.
You're not talking about somebody getting more money because of their color or so forth.
And as far as age would be the same thing, a man 45 could probably be as good as a man 40 in certain jobs.
But when you get into the minimum wage, you are then saying to a state, we're not going to give you the money for this increase you have to pay, but you have to pay it.
And then the state says, we may have to raise the taxes, and this becomes an argument against you, the administration.
So I thought I had to defend you in that position.
And I did.
Well, I just felt, well, you know...
And, of course, the meeting made the mistake.
He said, I carry the Chamber of Commerce at all.
The Chamber of Commerce is talking to the next stage.
I wonder what took him so long.
As a matter of fact, the Chamber of Commerce is how a lot more disturbed the meeting is.
I know.
Really?
Well, that's what I said.
You want more than half.
And as a matter of fact, I looked it over, and I don't know the Chamber, but they have a young boy.
I want, I want to be a, I want to be basically a, I want both sides.
Both sides, I think everybody's doing the right thing, if you do the right thing.
But also, I want, I want, it's like with, like with the bus with the farmers, he's not winning many of these days, because the price is too high.
But, uh, bus has to keep its credibility with the farmers by saying, look, I'm going to fight them for what you want, but on the other hand, you're going to win them all.
I mean, we've got to, we've got to do that, and, uh,
I know.
We'll do the best we can.
Let me ask you a couple of...
I'll tell you a couple of things if I can.
Uh...
The, uh...
The situation on this meeting on Monday, I thought I'd go by and just give them sort of an informal greeting.
I don't want to make a major later speech at this time.
I think that's what you're craving.
I would like going to the issues like this and so forth.
What would you suggest I do?
I think it would be a very good idea if you would come over to the White House, be right
And then probably you would stay.
Well, he means he's going to be there.
He wasn't supposed to be there.
He was supposed to be in New Orleans.
I understand he switched.
Right.
Well, that's right.
So I checked out.
Somebody said he was going to be there to stop the last of you.
And then I told him, I don't know if he was going to be there.
We expected you were going to be there.
Now, this may be so, but I mean what he said.
You should tell him that I'm going to be very conservatory and so forth, but that a public confrontation is not going to help you.
Mr. President, the group you will be speaking to, most of them are not simply what it means, because they call me.
They just thought it was attacking the person who was wrong.
It was like that one you made on me and my nephew.
Right.
That didn't help them.
Not with the building trades.
They present it now.
Many of my friends are in town already for this conference, and they've been calling me.
I don't want to start anything.
This is...
A lot of them are already saying, well, maybe when he gets out, he's going to attack his friends, he's going to accuse people of selling out.
Well, he hasn't.
It's about his big picture, actually.
Meaning the sharpness of time.
Well, he does, and so forth.
But between us, a certain rigidity, let's not say senility, does set in for some older people, all older people.
And I saw it happen at DeGaulle.
I saw it happen at Anaheim.
I saw that in the neighborhood.
And by that, by the rigidity he did, you know, McGall and Adenauer, both of them might be when they were in the United States.
And I knew that in the United States.
And we're just as sharp mentally then as they have been when I knew them earlier.
All of the flexibility had gone out.
And that's George Meany's problem, I think.
At times, at times he's flexible.
Don't even think that's possible.
I've never, I've never wanted him to say that, so I, no.
He was a strong fighter and all the rest.
But me, as his greatest and the fastest that I knew that he could be, served flexible.
And he cannot figure now to just get out and take an old hard line.
It's us or them.
That isn't going to work anymore.
It isn't going to help the labor movement.
It's not going to help the people.
The building trades are in good repute with this country because you know
The building trades were the construction industry, and getting that labor thing done on a voluntary basis before we ever had any control there.
That was a good deal.
And the building trades are, for a story, was major on the building trades.
Right.
And of course, the building trades, I have to tell you, they don't always agree with a lot of the policy of the U.S. general, especially the radicals.
They're a different type of group.
And because of this, they're accused of not caring.
They don't care.
But they're a little more balanced people.
Now, I think some of the things you can say, just as number one, there were great supporters of yours on Vietnam and all the way down.
I thought I did that.
The parade in New York was 75% full of praise marks.
So right at the end of it, I think just to mention that and repeat your thanks and again to tell them how proud you are to have brought the field up to something like this.
I thought I'd make a plea for strong national defense.
Because you see, basically, a lot of people who say, well, we'll cut the budget.
The thing to do is to cut the defense budget so that we can do more spending on it.
We can't cut the defense budget.
And I think I should tell them that.
All right.
Those are the only who do not come to the domestic tax.
What should I say about that?
Well, the domestic problems that some of them...
I plan to say one thing, of course.
I'm going to say...
I thought I would say in a personal sense that it means that I believe this administration has the open door policy and so forth and so on and so on.
I thought in a personal sense I'd say something about you.
It's very important that I do that.
You fight hard for the cabinet.
You're the most articulate spokesman for the few points of labor that I've seen in the many years I've been in the cabinet.
I think I'll just say that.
Is that all right?
I don't know if that hurt you.
I think it's the, you could even mention it, this is the problem with the procedure that's been done in the labor movement, where we, as I said to the press, we fight amongst ourselves, and when we take a vote, among the minority, I have to support the majority, and I may be the biggest fighter for the majority when it gets out, but we have to fight.
But that's democracy, and that's the way we operate.
I have to do this as part of your team.
I have my opportunity to debate my questions, either with you or with somebody who you try to carry back.
given myself some of the failure, my story's being brought back to you as the man to make the judgment, then I have no complaint.
If somebody was depriving me of this and I was not getting it, then I don't belong here.
I'll take that one.
And I think this point is a good comparison.
They do it every day.
Now, the other thing they're concerned with is the, some of them, I'll tell you about the CSRC, which is the control group, you know, their wages.
I think this, the general presence are happy with it because it keeps a lot of pressure on them.
It's good, I think, for the economy, and I think it's good for these men themselves if they understood it, because some of them are going so sky-high on their costs and prices that that's why they're not in any competition in the problems developing around the country.
I think, without getting into that, the touch that the administration is looking over the whole ballgame now, we're concerned with the fairness of all the work they're doing for the construction.
The other thing that they've been uptight that they've been looking for 20 years, which President Eisenhower supported, and President Truman, and President Kennedy, and President Johnson,
I know you wouldn't dare to be eyes on.
That's the size-picking right.
This has been one that's been discriminating against them, that they cannot defend themselves.
I'm going to tear a part of them up.
They get involved in secondary boycotts, so they pick it, and somebody else recurs across the picket line.
Because the building trades, not having one employee for the job, the general contractor sublets maybe 20 contractors.
So one does the brick, and one does the paint, and one does the electric.
So if the electrician has a problem against the electrician,
forced to picket a protest, and the others back them up, and electricians in trouble because they're not allowed to help them.
Now, this was a plant.
This was one factory where everybody worked for the one boss.
They could do that.
There'd be no problem.
So it's a little discriminatory.
It's been recognized and almost corrected until Arnold Powell, who was then head of the committee, played games with everybody and got it messed up.
And we had worked it out with the OCI also.
There was no schemes there to put anybody politically on the spot.
Now, this is one that would be as important, meaning it would come down to over a year.
I think that... We have any process.
I haven't heard of that for so many years.
Where does it stand now?
That hasn't been up since 1969, I think.
Well, it's been way more than that.
We have anything.
We...
I would have to review our position on that.
Yeah, but the main point is this...
I think if the position can be developed so that people can, in other words, if he can take the lead on the thing.
Now, understand, it's a very controversial, I know you're Congress, you know, but on the other hand, it's just not, I'd like to see it, I'd like to see a little intervention with people around here.
I think George, George is always been, you know, for that.
Oh, he is.
What I'm suggesting, Mr. President, and we beat them at their own game, that I don't want you to make any commitment to them or say anything other than if you feel you should, that many things that we've talked about, you and I, and one thing that you know is very dear to my heart is the site is picking for the construction.
This will set them right off.
And then, if you so feel that we could make room for that, perhaps you'd want to look at this and see what merits it or something else.
without committing yourself.
I don't want you to make any commitments.
I don't want you to get involved.
My opening it up is that if I open it up, I want to get in a position where I don't go through with it.
They're going to meet how long.
Well, that'll be about four days.
And they've had this thing pretty well moving up until six weeks.
that if we can get a position, if we're going to get a position, rather than my doing it, you do it.
In other words, you make so that you get the, you say, I am, I'm not going to be able to do it.
And I said, I don't know.
I don't know what we'll do when we get it.
I want to take a look at the pros and cons and see what the tennis group says we can get through now and then.
But, and get, you know, get a readout.
My only reason I'm in the park is because this is the
Building Trades Group is a whole other country.
The best group we got out of supporting our re-election.
All the way.
And they were very helpful all over the country.
They're still very strong following me.
It's good to open it up to that.
You get them right up with your hat.
And your thanks for their support on Vietnam.
They're still very emotional over helping the POWs.
And I think a good thing to do is, if you feel that you agree with me, is say that you and I have an understanding to help these veterans, to rehabilitate them and get them jobs.
And we want them to help them.
I'll tell you, I appreciate the leadership the Secretary of Labor has taken to provide
All of our parents, and the entire operation of the building trades for those jobs.
They have been helping.
They've been giving us training.
And that is dear to my heart.
And how are you feeling?
They feel very close, because so many of our own men were involved with the war, and their sons.
And as you know, you met Mike Donovan, who lost his boy over there.
We have quite a few of them.
What's his last name?
Donovan.
Now, he'll probably be there.
He's right beside the table.
I remember his table.
I'll never forget his face.
I appreciate their support, not politically, but their support.
We want to work together on building a strong America and a strong Iran.
We want a strong Ukraine.
A free Ukraine needs to be removed from this country.
I want to hear your views.
The door of this office is open all the time.
So that they can know that.
We may not always be able to agree with you or you with us, but we try to work it out right away at least.
This way they know that.
And I'll take that.
I'll say that.
I'm sorry.
They smile at me at events sometimes.
That's great.
That's all right.
We've got to keep them in line.
They'll appreciate that.
They know very well they can.
And they know they shouldn't have.
And they know you can.
That's right.
I can never deliver it.
Well, I can.
This paper is all the labor you can take to seal some of the business.
People have gotten it.
Why are you burning our table?
See, some of them don't believe that.
They think, well, I can't tell them everything, but I don't think I should.
I should.
The business I'm talking about, I don't think, the little business talk to me, they're concerned.
I don't think they're around, but they're exaggerating in some cases.
They're really worried.
I think they're concerned, but then it puts us, Mike had the right to suggest that somebody worked for him.
public wages.
I don't think I have.
But at the same time, I can't say to a man, well, I can't worry about you.
Go out of business.
I think if a man worked hard and put in some savings to get a little business, you can't be callous with him and say, well, I'll drop this.
So why don't you really balance it?
It's tough.
And the president has enough troubles, and I don't want to answer them.
But I think if these fellas understand that I am talking about their problems, you are listening.
But there are times when you can't
give me what I suggested, because there are other people on the other side whose problems are just as strong.
I'm glad that you feel that, because that will allow me to make an honest speech, rather than one that's pandering.
No, we want to be honest, and I said when I talked with the Secretary the same thing, that when I took the job, it was the basis that the President would give me, and I'm going to express my feelings, and we have an understanding that
We wouldn't always be able to agree, but we're not going to get into a battle.
We're not going to let the country down.
Because, see, the worst thing could be happening, that I'd say, well, I have to resign, and then it becomes a political issue.
And the newspapers would love this, because I watched this play.
Some newspapers were trying to zing me to zing you, and then zing me.
And I said, listen, this is not going to, they're not playing me in this account.
Well, some of the friendly papers I talked to last night, like Mr. Kaufman and the Washington Star set next week at the dinner,
He said to me, you know, Mr. Brown, you've got a controversial man, but more people will respect you.
You're an honest man.
I said, well, thank you.
He said, I know you could have ran out on the president.
You could have done things for good.
I said, I run out on anyone.
I said, I'll fight this.
I'll fight to take Mr. Meany on.
I can take him on.
But I'd rather go my way because...
He's not him, but a lot of people would like me or attack me because he has a lot of enemies on the label.
They're not my friends either, but they love me.
So I said, I'm not playing.
He said, no, you're doing the right thing.
Don't keep your phone.
He said, I don't mean your wrong time.
And he says, he's getting a little out of my wood bag right now.
He said, maybe you should retire.
Because he said, he made sense some years ago.
He said, I only attack the president every time he needs the president.
I do what he wants to attack people.
He said, it's getting a little foolish.
He said.
But, uh, and the president of the U.P.I.
had the same feeling, and they weren't anti, at least they weren't taught that way, but this is the reaction now to this kind of outburst.
And, uh, the feeling that he attacked me personally, if he wanted to attack the administration, this is expected, right?
If they come by the administration, we share that.
But making it personal, he opened the door to people that would fight him, and my friends would get mad at him and get into that, so I had to pull my people down and everything else.
And we're doing that.
We don't want to get into a room, Bob.
I told him, we've got to accomplish things for the country.
And I won at this time because the Industrial Peace Commission has been named.
Dave Coleman, he was upset.
He said, I can't understand, George.
You know, Dave's been around a long time.
And he said, I just don't understand.
He said, you've developed credibility around me very quick with business and all this.
And with great respect for what the president did at one point in the election.
Let me ask you something.
The fact that Meany attacked you helps us reassure business and get through some of these more progressive things.
I get my point.
Yes.
Because they'll say, I'll handle that.
That's right.
Maybe you see the point.
And it's a weird, so what you do, Ken, is to ensure that the dangers from others always go back to, look, Meany's attacked us for being too pro-business.
Let me ask you about that.
You had some concern.
I heard this about your, you know, your appliance clearance and so forth and so on.
I worked out, Ken, and I told Bob all this morning about it, and I wrote a special deal made with the, where Schultz,
If they agree, that's it.
Now, Jones, of course, if it is him, and he's got to get the FBI checked, but we just want to be sure.
The only question here is to be sure that if they take on an FBI check, I know one of the base fighters, we've got to make those checks for the reason that if the guy gets up there before the committee, then some silly thing comes up.
The FBI is too slow.
It's too slow.
We've got a new manager.
I'm going to kick him in the ass and make him get him faster.
But those checks should take five weeks.
How long do they run?
They run too long, as you say.
They should take 48 hours for an initial check and then the full background investigation.
Full field.
Full field.
It shouldn't run.
It shouldn't really run any more than three weeks, but they drag on and on and on.
I've got a lot of people since we last talked about it.
I know we've got time out of your call.
I'm the secretary and we shouldn't have any trouble.
He's a good man.
He's a good man.
He's a good man.
He's a good man.
He's a good man.
He's a good man.
He's a good man.
religious, and a man with all the things you want to do.
And he likes being at the desk doing the paperwork you and I talked about for me to get out.
Because I went up to Boston with a group that was going to demonstrate against me and you and everything else, and I had some advanced guys sent up to take care of that.
And when I went up, it turned out wonderful.
The black leaders were very pleased.
I was someone who could talk straight to them and not visit the center.
They had a wonderful center.
But I think that's something in the down drain, we don't give it help.
And that's why I'm on with it, because for some reason, I'm checking this out now, the manpower has put all the money into Newton, which is a very influential, rich section, and took it out of Boston.
Both the governor spoke to me in the mail, and both the different political parties, but they agree on this, and I assure them that the president wants to do the right thing.
My feeling as a secretary is that any program that's not working, I want to get rid of it.
Anybody wants to argue about it, I want to argue about it.
Where it's good, we want to look at it.
I'm sure the president wants to keep it.
We want to expand it.
And this program up there is working on it for the school.
I've seen what they're doing with the enthusiasm of the kids and the teachers.
It's one of the best I've seen.
And I told them that I wanted to say this to you before I told that guy.
In fact, Julie was very much concerned with me.
It was the one day we flew back again.
She was happy because she heard about it.
What is the name of this?
It's the Boston Community Development Association, I think, of ABCD.
By the way, it's one of them because it's business and the Chamber of Commerce plays a big part.
They gave awards to that thing.
What about your community action?
I don't know.
I don't know.
Well, some of them are funded through the end of the year with federal money.
Others can continue to fund themselves for administrative expenses out of program money, as opposed to strictly administrative money that they've been getting from OEO.
And still others can go on with money from the particular local community.
Now, we can, I'm sure, make funds available so that this can continue, but I'd need to look into it in detail.
I'm not sure they can check on it.
Well, I'm not in my manpower check.
Why does money go into the...
areas of massachusetts where they don't have a copy from like newton which is very rich doesn't make any sense to me why do you want to miss everyone down and then of course with the announcement the day i was there the navy i was going to close down and be honest oh boy i get hit with that but i want to say this mr president both the mayor and the government are very understanding which is good they said look we can understand what the president's out there
This was even Mayor White.
I'm glad he's saying that to you.
I wish he was saying that to me.
I said, you know, Kevin, I said, because I knew his uncle well for many years.
He was in the labor room.
As you know, Kevin, time has come for us to work as emergents.
And if you agree with me, privately at the present, right, it wouldn't do any harm for you to say this, forgetting about, you know, maybe you want to use it to run for office.
I think we straightened out the country to run for office and get elected.
But we have to do this now, right?
One actually has been sort of a bridesmaid and never a bride for so many years.
He'd be better off if he weren't quite so partisan.
You know what I mean?
And then he might make it for governor one day because he's what he wants.
What I could tell him up there, I said, I'm sure that whatever my department is doing, I'm sure we would have the blessing of the president to help them.
We would look to see what we could do to help them.
I personally talked to my friends in the late moment of building trade that we could absorb some of these minutes.
We did New York and Brooklyn again, but I said, I'm not familiar with it, and I'm not the Secretary of the Prince, so I don't want to get into his department.
Disgusting.
But they were, as I say, they were calm, they were very concerned, but they weren't blasting you, and they didn't get into anything.
They realized these things have to happen with the winding down of the war and so forth.
I just mention that because... As you know, we're going to have a real problem because we're going to close 45...
or cut back 45 bases around the country.
And it'll break somehow, but on the other hand, you just can't keep them open if they're no use to the country.
You have one issue, Paul.
The people that are going to attack me, the people that are going to attack me won't hold.
So what I'm saying, I'm going to say, fine, you want the president to end the war, right?
He did that.
You want him to cut a defense block.
He's trying to do that, but still defend the country.
How do you cut a defense block?
Well, they have no place to go.
And I think this is what you have to give them.
You're doing everything you can to build a strong defense.
I was thinking that you were just talking about the Anderson-Carrie so forth at the cabinet meeting next week.
My understanding was that it would be the energy.
So what would be the purpose of having the cabinet then?
Discuss energy.
I've seen the message you've made already.
Well, I think, though, in the sense of the following support for this thing, because we're going to get kicked, I think, by a number of people saying we're soft on business and we've caved it from OEO.
And still others can go on with money from the particular local community.
Now, we can, I'm sure, make funds available so that this can
continue, but I need to work into it in detail.
I'm not sure they can check on it.
Well, I've had my manpower check why the money went to the areas of Massachusetts where they don't have a property property, like Newcomb, which is very rich.
It doesn't make any sense to me.
Why they went out and this area went down.
And then, of course, with the announcement the day I was there that the Navy was going to close down and the Army was going to close down.
Oh, boy, I get hit with that.
But I want to say this, Mr. President.
Both the mayor and the governor were very understanding, which was good.
They said, look, we can understand what the president's out there
This was even Mayor White.
I'm glad he's saying that to you.
I wish he was saying that to me for 10 years.
I said, you know, Kevin, I said, because I knew his uncle well for many years.
He was in the labor movement.
As you know, Kevin, time has come for us to work as Americans.
And if you agree with me, privately at the present time, it wouldn't do any harm for you to say this.
Forget about, you know, maybe you want to use it to run for office.
I think we strike out the country to run for office and get elected.
But we have to do this now, right?
You know, one actually has, you know, been sort of a, sort of a bridesmaid and never a bride for so many years.
He'd be better off if he weren't quite so partisan.
You know what I mean?
And then he might make it for governor one day, you know, because he's, what he wants is governor.
What I could tell him up there, I said, I'm sure that whatever my department's doing, I'm sure we would have the blessing of the president to help them.
You know, if one would create a black postman in Indiana, we would look to see what we could do to help them.
I personally talked to my friends in a late moment of building trade that we could absorb some of these men, as we did in New York and Brooklyn, if you have, but I said, I'm not familiar with it, I'm not the Secretary of Defense, so I don't want to get into his department, especially.
But they were, as I say, they were calm, they were very concerned, but they weren't blasting you, and they didn't get into anything.
They realized these things have to happen with the winding down of the war and so forth.
I just mention that because back in the day... As you know, whenever we reopen, we're going to close 45...
or cut back 45 bases around the country.
And it'll raise some hell, but on the other hand, you just can't keep them open.
There's no use for them.
If you had one of these polls, people that are going to attack me, people that are going to attack me won't hold.
So what I'm saying is, I'm replying.
You want the president to end the war, right?
He did that.
You want him to cut a defense block.
He's trying to do that, but still defend the country.
How do you cut a defense block?
You cut...
Well, they have no place to go.
And I think this is what you have to give them.
If they're doing everything they can, it's going to be a very strong defense.
I was thinking that we were just talking about the Anderson-Carrie support at the cabinet meeting next week.
I don't know what we're going to have on the agenda.
We might have something on energy, but we will send a message that I
My understanding was that it would be the energy.
So what would be the purpose of having the cabinet then?
Discuss energy.
I've seen the message you've made already.
Well, I think, though, in a sense of the following support for this thing, because we're going to get kicked, I think, by a number of people.
We're saying we're soft on the business and we've caved in.
Because of the environment?
The environment business.
Well, you've got to have the energy.
That's great.
Oh, 100%.
I think this is becoming cold.
This is not one thing you can do.
Get over the cold line.
If you tell them to get off their bus and support this message, I see where you're going to go for tremendous use of coal and that sort of thing.
You're certain, right?
Yes.
Well, this is another thing, this group you talked about, they're very much behind you on this environment.
People want to protect it, but they're aware that it's all about projects too.
We've got to build it.
I think the idea of having it built through cannon is so ridiculous.
Like how the Canadians were talking about... Well, they had to find a throne.
Well, the Germans also had a throne.
So you have to oppose that.
That's probably why, for many reasons, for political reasons, Bobby Kennedy wanted to do it.
I like that.
You've got to have the energy.
Oh, 100%.
You tell them to get off their bus and support this message.
You see, we're going to go for tremendous use of coal and that sort of thing.
You're certain, right?
Yes.
Well, this is another thing.
This group you talked to Monday.
Bobby Kennedy wanted to buy the power of Canada instead of building plants in New York.
I fought him.
I beat the hell out of him on that.
Oh, yes.
He was down on his knees.
I was able to just let him go until he got way out on a limb and I said, fine, now.
This is an American senator who says, we're all going to work for Canada.
We've got to employ the utilities, the construction.
We're training minorities.
What, we're going to send them to Canada to work?
Well, he just, he was in a hell of a spot.
What he was saying, trying to play up the people in the environment, the ecologists, okay, don't build plants in New York State.
Don't have any nuclear plants.
They're dangerous.
Where the professionals are saying they're not.
And we built the biggest in India, finally, though.
So he was saying, we'll buy it off Canada and have them bring it down through the grid system and so forth.
Well, we knocked the hell out of it.
I was able to knock them out of their jobs.
They were number one.
Plus, if we ever had a former...
They're very much behind you on this environment.
You know, people want to protect it, but they're aware that it's all...
It's Alaska Pike, you know.
I'm starting out of it.
We've got to build it.
The Interior Department of Canada, they can shut us off whenever we need to.
Now, I think that comes up again on the pipeline, Mr. President.
You're in the same position.
You say, look, number one, I'm President of the United States.
My obligation is to the Americans, to the workers, to the businessmen.
And if we go to a foreign country, although it's a friendly country, we do not consider this a country.
We have a good argument there for your opposition, worried about how wide the trenches and all that is.
Now, we are, in the construction business, we're pretty...
Good.
Doing things you don't even know was done.
We could build from there and put that back.
You wouldn't even know you had a pipeline.
Of course.
Of course.
There's no reason to defend.
You know, another thing, too, is this, that looking at Canada, sure, it's a friendly country, but you can have unfriendly governments in friendly countries.
Trudeau is no friend of ours.
No, but you have some real runners up there.
Yeah.
Why don't they sabotage the pipeline?
We can't protect them.
The idea of having to go through Canada.
We have to depend on them.
Suppose they decide what they need to do.
They want to share a source of water, they want to raise the tax.
It's like the old days with the grass and range, you know, Texas.
Well, if you want to get to my water hole, you've got to get to your fucking head.
And, you know, how do we stop this?
We don't get into an international problem.
Well, we're all, and incidentally, the environmental business in Canada, it doesn't mean, in Alaska, it doesn't mean it's what happens to that crap up there.
You've been there.
There's nothing there.
And the fact that the reindeer, whatever they have, aren't going to have snow and all that.
We wouldn't know that.
If it had been the environmentalists who had their way, America would still be a primitive country with no development.
It was like an alien's book.
It was like an alien's book.
I've had these fights in New York, and one of them got quoted three times in the Times in a row as the quote of the day.
And one of them was just what you're saying.
We were fighting for housing in a road to downtown to speed up the traffic, and a fellow pushed on his butthole.
This is one of the great geniuses of my time.
I feel like he's been in touch with me.
He's another old fellow, but he's still sharp.
He's still sharp.
He's actually in your program about Vietnam.
He thinks it's great.
Put him down for...
or uh moses and pass his name into rose to come to him in there he's able oh yes he's 85 but he gets around it'd be great to have moses down and just put him on the dinner list now i think the next two or three are different but he's been a great he's been a great supporter he's a strong but american one of the things i used out there to hear in the city all the times when all the things that caught on there when i testified i said listen to these people they're up there well i'm not going to say
Here's New York, the greatest city in the world, and moving ahead.
We'd be outside of the Cal Passage.
I said, we're still shooting the Indians, and we wouldn't be any further ahead than they were.
Well, this one, I hope the papers picked it up, and the Times made it a quote of the day.
So we were going to have to get mileage out of this, and we got things done.
But we had a good team, and Moses was a strong man.
But a man who did his homework didn't know what he was talking about.
And we even had people testify that
You know, Charlie's in a hole, but good, don't lift down the houses.
Well, we wouldn't know what you're having, you know.
Well, you know, another thing, you've got to be honest.
Take the nuclear thing.
People shouldn't be as scared of nuclear power.
I mean, that's ridiculous.
Well, at least it's like the SST, you know.
Now, we should have built the SST, because basically somebody else is going to build it.
And I don't want to hard drive people riding around.
There'll be some time, and probably, you know, the Russians will get it first.
And that would be a hell of a no-go.
That's why I think the machine is, when they oppose you, rather than mine, you're their friend fighting for this, which meant George Rensselaer was out, besides the fact that McGovern was against it.
Strictly stupid.
Well, he was pretty partisan, I think.
He's a name of God when he's very partisan.
We, uh, well, I'll, uh, I'll give it a good shot.
I'll talk about it in a few minutes.
Well, I think these are the things that they would, uh, they would, you know, unite them and, uh,
And let me just stress and say that the things that you've shown us, and I can talk to you, and we've been listening, and we're looking, and this is not making commitments.
It's not making promises that you couldn't keep.
I got it.
I don't want you to do this.
I want you to be in a position where you may not be able to do it, or you may not want to do it.
And so that would be, he was on the list, the public list, and they listened to him.
Yes, yes.
In the secretary's hand.
Yes, sir.
That would be cut down.
We'll know that he was in the office.
And we're cut down.
Yes, sir.
I think for that cabinet meeting next Thursday, which comes for Easter, it would be a nice touch to invite each undersecretary as well.
If you give them a feeling that what we do in a case like that is you will have all the cabinet
That way, first they get a feeling of being in the cabinet room, which most of them do, and then they can go back and see how lucky you were there.
See, we don't do it about once a year.
This would be a good thing.
Right.
Undersecretary of Commerce job is not filled yet.
It isn't?
No.
My fellow's not in either.
He's been announced.
He's been announced, but not confirmed.
Well, he could still come.
That's right.
We can have him.
He could still come.
And he may have an undersecretary.
We don't have an undersecretary.
I would say, if we miss on e-commerce, let's go ahead anyway.
All right.
But you do check it out.
Check it out and see if anything's going on.
All right.
But I'd rather think that this would be a good time.
All right.
Mr. President, one other thing you should be aware of that may come up.
I'm discussing now... See, you have proposed that.
I'll tell you why.
For many reasons, but for political reasons, Bobby Kennedy wanted to do it.
Bobby Kennedy won the fight.
He's uptight, he's re-infreshing.
And Fred, by the way, is a great guy.
He is.
He is.
He's a sweet guy.
Him and I worked up now very close.
We're going to bring in, uh...
I suggested we would force him to board, and he boarded right away.
And I said, you know what, we're going to have to do this.
We're going to have to do this.
We're going to have to do this.
Everyone may be taken to Blair House.
We probably can feed them.
No agenda.
Just talk.
And do this.
Everyone.
But he agrees with one of those.
He's agreed.
But he's uptight over something that we've already worked out on the unemployment insurance bill.
And that is where Georgia said to me, you want to, you do not want to include the states that have a payment strike.
So we're trying, and this is another one close to me, because he did it in New York.
It's New York and Rhode Island.
So we're putting in the two states that under the new program, they would not get it unless they
you know, to pay the strikers.
But in there, we also said, to take the innocence, which is one of the problems with the local law, that if a strike is called by one union, one group in a plant, that they lock out everybody else, and they cannot get the benefits either as a lockout or as a victim to the strike.
Now, we're saying that, okay, we don't pay the striker, but we should pay the people who are unemployed due to a strike.
They have no control over it.
Conway's power of Canada, instead of building plants in New York, I fought him, and I beat the hell out of him.
Oh, yes.
He was down on his knees.
I was able to...
I just let him go until he got way out on a limb, and I said, fine, now, whatever.
This is an American senator.
He wants us all the way to Canada.
We've got to run for the utilities, the construction.
We're training minorities.
What, we're going to send him to Canada to work?
Well, he just...
He was in a hell of a spot.
What he was saying was trying to play up...
Okay, don't build plants in New York State.
Don't have any nuclear plants.
They're dangerous.
Where the professionals are saying they're not.
And we built the biggest in Indian Point, New York.
I think in all fairness, this is the position we're taking.
It's only two states, but we feel that there's a lockout.
If I'm fighting with him, there's no reason to hurt you.
But that's what happened.
You become a victim because I knocked the plant down.
You're willing to go to work, but you can't.
So he was saying, we'll buy it off Canada and have them bring it down through the grid system and so forth.
But we're not doing that.
We don't give unemployment insurance and we force them to be unemployed for no fault of your own.
We're saying that that person is a victim and should be paid unemployment.
Not the guy who voted to go on strike.
So this is coming up then.
We've been talking all day.
This is working on the language.
That's my understanding.
Now, I was able to write them on my jobs.
Number one.
Plus, if we ever had a foreign country, they could shut us off wherever we'd be.
Now, I think that comes up again on the pipeline, Mr. President.
You're in the same position.
You said, look, number one, I'm President of the United States.
My obligation is to the Americans, to the workers, to the businessmen.
And if we go to a foreign country, although it's a friendly country,
We have a good argument there for your opposition worried about how wide the trenches and all that is.
Now, we're going to meet today.
This just came up.
We don't understand.
Fred got this.
Well, you know, some of the congressmen raised it with Pam last night.
They said you've got sex there.
I don't know what about this.
I don't know about the strikers and so forth.
And I said, well, I don't think anybody's contemplating that.
But there is a great reason for this.
There is a gray area, which the Secretary mentioned, where some people are affected because of a strike, but they're not on strike.
They're out of work.
They're not drawn any wages or anything, and yet they need some kind of coverage.
We are, in the construction business, we're pretty good at doing things you don't even know how it was done.
We could build from there and put that back.
You wouldn't even know you had a pipeline.
There's no reason to defend.
You know, another thing, too, is this, that looking at Canada, sure, it's a friendly country, but you can have unfriendly governments in friendly countries.
Trudeau is no friend of ours.
No, but you have some real radicals up there.
Yeah.
Why don't they sabotage the fight?
We can't protect.
We have to defend on him.
Suppose they decide what they need to do.
They want to share the sauce.
What do they want to raise?
The tax cut would be... Well, he's getting suppliers.
They're objective.
My feeling is that, number one, we want to... We won't get ladies 100% support on that, but they won't fight us 100%.
because they're not on the box.
It's like the old days with the two states.
But because it's Meany's baby at this stage, Meany's going to try to put on a real battle.
My thing is that we can say that we're, you, as a man with some compassion, we should try to say, you know, I'm saying you do care, that you have compassion.
You can't go around and see everybody's individual.
I'm there to do it, so are other people.
But if we can show them that
A fellow, a woman, who was an incident with the grass arranging on Texas.
Well, if you want to get to my waterhole, you've got to get to your fucking head.
And, you know, how do we stop this?
We're not getting to an international level.
Well, we're all, and incidentally, the environmental business in Canada.
You're trying to help them, and we are all of them.
But the fellow who does take upon himself a strike knows what he's doing, therefore he takes a consequence of it.
And the victim has to wait a week under the law, seven to ten days as it is.
But if they're penalized, like in New York, they have to wait 13 weeks like the striker.
Now, after 13 weeks in New York, that's when the striker gets his unemployment.
But the victim has to wait 13 weeks also, which is wrong.
They should get it in the first seven days, just as if they were unemployed because they were laid off.
Now, it's a humane thing.
It's the right thing to do.
If there's any proof that the person who was a victim of the strike had anything to do with the strike, either lent to the victim, supported it physically or financially, even though they had a bond, then they shouldn't get paid.
They helped to bring it about.
We have that safeguards in there so that somebody who says, well, it doesn't mean in Alaska, it doesn't mean it's what happens to that crap up there.
I'm a victim, but we can prove that they were victims, but they helped the creative by supporting some other group.
We had that safety guard in there to show business that, look, we're just not letting somebody have some conspiracy there.
We're paying one group to conspire with the other.
We think we have that protection in there as we put it in.
One of them would be happy to hear, I must tell you, I was up at that parade.
America would still be a primitive country with no development, you know.
I've had these fights in New York and one of them got quoted three times in the Times in a row as the quote of the day.
And one of them was just what you're saying.
We were fighting for housing in a road to downtown to speed up the traffic.
And a fellow pushover was one of the great geniuses.
Thank you.
I couldn't believe the damn New York Times playing on the front page.
Well, you would have felt great to see how these fellas reacted against the war.
Now, they permitted him to march his veterans group, which probably was smart.
I had some job to build the trade.
They wanted to go to war.
They touched with me.
He's another old fellow, but he's still sharp.
You think he's so sure?
He's actually, the old program about Vietnam, he can just put him down for, and we do, for Moses, and pass his name into Rose, to come to a dinner.
He's able, isn't he?
Oh, yes.
He's 85, but he is.
It would be great to have Moses down and just put him on the dinner last night.
I think the next order would be different.
He's been a great, he's been a great supporter.
He's a strong, long-haired, the cops were upset, the police come and said, we're glad you're here, Mr. Brennan.
He goes, these men don't listen to anybody else, and they want to put them on the parade.
I said, look, let them march, we know what will end.
So what we did was enough for these thousand men in uniform, plus the healers.
When this group got to about 50 feet from the stand, everybody, just like a valley, turned their back, completely around the area, bowed the door, stood there.
Well, that was as much as slapping.
They sure did.
Don't turn your back on us.
The TV picked it up, and they screamed, and the women and the people across the street called them bums and everything else.
But the heroes there and their peers, all of a sudden, ran their back.
One of the things I used out there to hear in the city all the time was when all the people that caught on there, when they testified, said, listen to these people.
They're up there all night.
And I said,
here's New York, the greatest city in the world, and moving ahead.
We'd be outside of the Cal Passage.
I said, we're still shooting the Indians, and we wouldn't be any further ahead than they were.
Well, this one, I opened the papers, picked it up, and the Times made it a quote of the day.
So we were going to have to get mileage out of this, and we got things done.
But we had a good team, and Moses was a strong man.
But a man who did his homework didn't know what he was talking about.
And we even had people testify that
Well, you know, another thing, you've got to be honest.
Take the nuclear thing.
People shouldn't be as scared of nuclear power.
I mean, that's ridiculous.
It's like the SST, you know.
Now, we should have built the SST because basically somebody else is going to build it.
I don't want to barge by people, right?
And the police won't be doing the horses and so forth, kept them open, but they, they were, all they screamed, because this was a big insult, that, everybody, that night I was at the banquet, and I had them screaming on their feet, I said, did you do the right thing?
They turned their back.
I said, there's a man in this town who said they were the real heroes, the draft doctors.
I said, but if they're heroes, why don't they come back like heroes and take their punishment and settle it?
And I'm sitting there like, I don't want to fall on the street for about 20 minutes.
But the thing I'm doing is good, and I don't want to hold you up.
I'm sitting there with a congressional member, one of the two prison wardens.
I know this kid, he lost his legs, the power of his legs by attacking a pillbox.
There'll be some time, probably now the Russians will get him.
That's why I think the machine is when they oppose you, rather than mine.
You were there fighting for this over there, and the mine went off, and he killed a few people in the east.
And in the final, as a matter of fact, his madame, and one of his greatest things is someday to be able to meet you with his two daughters, and he said, get in the range.
I said, well, I came, and I said, this is rough, and I'll try.
Well, I was talking to him after the dinner, and a young man came up, and he wanted to talk to me, and I thought you'd get a kick out of this.
I stood up and met him.
He was a corporal.
He was an American who had formerly had a real heavy British accent.
He was called the boss, which meant George Red Smith was out and started to fight.
And the government was against it.
Strictly stupid.
Well, he was pretty partisan, I think.
He's an able-bodied, very partisan.
We, uh... Well, I'll, uh...
I'll give it a good shot.
I'll give them...
I won't...
I'll talk about it in 15 minutes.
Well, I think these are the things that they would have been able to accept, unite them, and, uh...
And if you just pass and say that the things that concerns none of you, that I can talk to you and you can listen, and we're looking in, this is not making commitments, it's not making promises that you couldn't keep, you'd have to back out of.
I don't want you to do this.
I don't want you to be in position.
He said to me, Mr. Secretary, a real heavy English he said, I want you to know that I'm an English subject.
I was proud to serve in the American Army in Vietnam.
I think you've got the greatest man in the world as President.
And he went out in this heavy English accent, you know, and I was just looking to make sure he's not getting me mad.
And a fellow who brought him up in person was one of the commanders, and he said, I don't know if you get to talk to the president very often.
You may not be able to do it, or you may not want to do it.
And so that would be, he was on the list, the public list, and they listened to him?
Yes, yes.
In the secretary's hand?
Yes, sir.
That would be good.
They would have noted he was in the office.
The second point I was going to suggest, going out of this meeting, I think for that cabinet meeting next Thursday, which is on the 3rd, it would be a nice touch to invite each undersecretary as well.
It would give them a feeling that what we do in a case like that is you will have all the cabinet people at the table and in the back row, instead of having staff people, put the undersecretaries.
What do you think of that?
That way, first they get a feeling of being in the cabinet room, which also
And then they can go back and then the LIB can say how lucky you were there and see.
We don't do it about once.
It should be done more than about once a year.
This would be a good thing for us.
Are all undersecretary jobs filled now?
No, sir.
The undersecretary of commerce job is not filled yet.
It isn't?
No.
my father's not delighted he's been announced but it's not announced or not confirmed but you do check it out and check it out but i rather uh
Mr. President, one other thing you should be aware of that may come up.
I'm discussing how Fred Demers uptightens the impression.
Fred, by the way, is a great guy.
He is.
He is a sweet guy.
Him and I are now very close.
We're going to bring in...
I suggested him when we first came forward, and he brought it right away.
Everyone may be taken to Blair House.
We probably can feed them.
No agenda.
Just talk.
And do this every month.
Well, he agrees, and we're going to do this.
He's a greenback, but he's uptight over something that we've already worked out on the unemployment insurance bill, and that is where Georgia said to me, you want to, you do not want to include the states that have a payment strike.
So we're trying to, and this is another one close to me, because he did it in New York.
It's New York and all that.
So we're putting in the two states that under the new program, they would not get it unless they
you know, to pay the strikers.
But in there we also said, to protect the innocent, which is one of the problems with the local law, that if a strike is called by one union, one group in a plant, that they lock out everybody else and they cannot get the benefits either as a lockout or as a victim to the strike.
Now we're saying that, okay, we don't pay the striker, but we should pay the people who are unemployed due to a strike and have no control over it.
Conway seems to think this is going to open up a can of wine and stuff, and it may, but I think in all fairness,
This is the position we're taking.
It's only two states, but we feel if there's a lockout, if I'm fighting with him, there's no reason to hurt you.
That's what happened.
You become a victim because I knocked the plan down.
You're willing to go to work, but you can't, so you don't get unemployment insurance and be forced to be unemployed for no fault of your own.
We're saying that that person is a victim and should be paid unemployment.
Not the guy who voted to go on strike.
So this is coming up then.
We've been talking...
Yes, sir.
This is... That's my understanding.
We're going to meet today.
This just came up.
Thank you.
But what we don't... We have to understand.
Fred got this.
I don't know what about this side.
I don't know much.
I don't think anybody's contemplating that, but there is a gray area.
There is a gray area, which the Secretary mentioned, where some people are affected because of a strike, but they are not on strike themselves.
They're out of work.
They're not drawn any wages or anything, and yet they need some kind of coverage.
And that feels like it would be... Well, he's getting some flyers.
They're objective.
Now, my feeling is that, number one, we want to... We won't get labor's 100% support on that, but they won't fly us 100%.
Because they're not all involved.
It's only two states.
But because it's Meany's baby at this stage, Meany's going to try to put on a real battle.
My feeling is that we can say that we're... You, as a man with some compassion, will try to say, you know, I'm saying you do, Jim.
that you have compassion, you can't go around and see everybody's individual.
I'm there to do it, so are other people.
But if we can show them that the fellow or the woman who is an innocent victim, that you're trying to help them, and we are all of them, but the fellow who does take upon himself the strike knows what he's doing, therefore he takes the consequences.
And the victim has to wait a week under the law, or seven to ten days as it is.
But if they're penalized, like in New York, they have to wait
13 weeks like the strike now after 13 weeks in new york that's when the striking is on appointment but the victim has to wait wait 13 weeks also which is wrong they should get it out of the first seven days just as if they were unemployed because they were laid off now it's a humane thing it's the right thing to do and anyway we say so that we we don't protect anybody that's what we say in our recommendation labor fund if there is any proof
that the person who was a victim of the strike had anything to do with the strike, either lent to them, supported them physically or financially, even though they had a bond, then they shouldn't get paid.
They helped to bring them out.
We had that safeguards in there so that somebody who says, well, I'm a victim, but we can prove that they were victims, but they helped the creative by supporting some other group.
We had that safety guard in there to show business that, look, we're just not letting somebody have some conspiracy there.
We're paying one group to conspire with the other.
We think we have that protection in there as we put it in.
One of them would be happy to hear us tell you.
I was up at that parade and...
I read about it.
I read about it.
Well, the parade was terrific.
I couldn't believe the damn New York Times playing on the front page.
Well, you would have felt great to see how these fellows reacted to the end game, the veterans... No, no.
Against the war.
Against the war came up.
Now, they permitted them to march in the veterans' room, which probably was smart.
I had some job in the building trade.
They wanted to go to work on it.
The cops were upset.
The police company said, we're glad you're here, Mr. Brennan.
He goes, these men don't listen to anybody else.
They want to put them out of the parade.
I said, look, let them march.
You know what?
We'll handle it.
So what we did was enough for these thousand men in uniform plus the reviewer's staff.
When this group got to about 50 feet from the stand, everybody, just like a ballet, turned their back, completely around the area, while the dogs stood there.
Well, that was as much as slapping.
They sure did.
The dogs turned their back on us.
The TV set up, and they screamed, and the women and the people across the street called them bums and everything else, but the people were standing on their peers, all of them, and they were right on their back.
And then they screamed, and the police moved in with the horses and so forth, kept them open, but they were pivoting.
Oh, they screamed, because this was a big insult.
Everybody could hear that.
One of the men I talked to at the banquet, and I had them screaming on their feet, I said, you did the right thing to turn your back.
I said, there's a man in this town who said they were the real heroes, the draft doctors.
I said, but if they're heroes, why don't they come back like heroes and take their punishment and settle it?
And I'm just like, I don't want to fall asleep about 20 times.
But the thing is, I was good, and I don't want to hold you up.
I'm sitting there with a congressional man in two prison wards.
I know this kid.
He lost his legs, the power of his legs, by attacking a pillbox over there, and the mine went off, and he killed a few Vietnamese people.
And finally, as a matter of fact, his madame, one of his greatest things is someday to be able to meet you with his two daughters.
And he said, can I get your name?
I said, well, he came and I said, this is Robert.
I'll try.
Well, I was talking to him after the dinner.
A young man came up.
And he wanted to talk to me.
And I thought you'd get a kick out of this, Mr. President.
I stood up and met him.
He was a corporal.
He was an American who had formerly had a real heavy British accent.
Mr. Secretary, a real heavy English he said, I want you to know that I'm an English subject.
I was proud to serve in the American Army in Vietnam.
I think you've got the greatest man in the world as president.
And he went out in this heavy English accent, you know, and I just look and I make sure he's not kidding me.
And the fellow who brought him up in person was one of the commanders.
And he said, I don't know if you get to talk to the president.