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You've got a busy day today, too.

I understand that the whole matter of the economic deal was discussed at the other meeting.

But I wondered if there were matters that we ought to discuss that there are in the area.

Yes, I wanted to say that this is what we all need to say.

also bilateral contacts at the technical and diplomatic level, because I think that the resolution of these technical problems will depend a lot on the framework of preparation

I'm very proud of what you're saying.

and also in the issue of customs tariffs, working for some indication of our tariffs.

...accompanied by some mitigations in the African territories, which are higher, on the other hand, I think it will allow us, on a technical level, not to have any difficulties during the eight years.

The important thing is that, precisely, a festive and good political preparation, which

The truth is that, in the beginning, many problems were created in the house, including the fact that there were many people in the house.

What is required in this field is that there should be many bilateral conflicts at the technical and diplomatic level.

In fact, I believe that the settlement of these trade matters will much depend on a careful preparation of this question.

and because the size of the problems is not so great as to raise apprehensions or too much concern with us.

Also in the field of customs tariffs, I believe we should do some preparatory work in order that we may lower some of our tariffs and this should be accompanied by some lowering of American tariffs which are higher than ours on the other hand.

And then, from a technical viewpoint, there should be no unsurmountable difficulties if this is done.

What really matters is to have a good and timely political preparation of these trade talks, which unfortunately was not the case with the pending round, and then this created some difficult problems.

Now I would like to say a few words on Japan.

Yes, before I say something, because I wanted to say what I said yesterday, I think that all the communist propaganda in Europe in the next few months will take this as a central point against multinational companies, against the global capitalism, so we have to

to prevent many of these themes of propaganda.

In general, I would say that this is indispensable in all fields, because we are often in difficulties, as Westerners, because the initiative of propaganda

Many times, the propaganda of these communists and their organizations, which are certainly more disinvolved and less responsible, comes to the fore.

Perhaps the only pleasure in this discourse is that the consultation of some topic of propaganda would always be useful and more specific, because

It is important to express our interest when, in some of the most difficult and irrational moments, we have been able to have an effective discussion or information, either in a united or in bilateral meetings, we have seen how the Soviet propaganda emerges with relative ease.

Before speaking on Japan, I would like to repeat something which I mentioned yesterday.

That is to say, the communist propaganda all over Europe in the next few months is going to concentrate on the action against, or on the propaganda against multinationals, against world capitalism.

So we should be able to do something in order to prevent this propaganda, or to defend ourselves against it.

In general, this is a requirement in all fields because in Western countries we are often faced with difficulties because the initiative of propaganda is taken in communist countries much more actively and perhaps courageously or without less inhibitions than in our countries.

These organizations are also less responsible than we are in our countries.

And so I would just like to touch this point now, but some consultation of our propaganda action could be required in the future.

We should agree, perhaps, on some matters for propaganda.

This is very important and this is evident by the fact that in the past, when we were able to have timely discussions, either in the framework of NATO or at the bilateral level, on some important and difficult international problems, this solution was easier and we were able to win Soviet propaganda just through timely and careful discussions.

I would like to have some information about Japan.

has two possibilities.

One is to continue to focus on its investment in the production of the Americas, in Europe, in the United States, or that of investing a lot in the Chinese market.

I would like to have some information, suggestions regarding this,

Presidente, e anche chiedere a lui se ha qualche consiglio per le confrontazioni che dobbiamo avere con il primo ministro Tanaka e con il governo giapponese.

Now, concerning Japan, since I'm also going to Japan, as you know, Mr. President, I would like to ask you some information on the present trends or orientations of the Japanese.

In fact, I believe they have two alternative possibilities concerning the marketing of their products.

They may continue their big marketing efforts in Western countries, the USA and Europe, or they may try to

have greater sales on the Chinese market.

So I would like to hear something on this trend.

What are your orientations in this respect?

And perhaps also if you can give some advice in view of the talks which we are going to have with Premier Tanaka and with the Japanese government.

does not really have an option at this time with regard to trading with the Communist China as a substitute for trade with Europe and the United States in other countries.

Therefore, Japan really does not have a choice in terms of relations, that is, the relations with communist China as a substitute for the international markets of the West.

They will talk about it, but when you pin it down, the Chinese just don't have enough to sell that they want.

And so it will be many years before the Communist China will be a major trading partner for Japan.

It seems so, but from a practical point of view, when you get to that point, the fact of the fact is that China really does not have enough production of interest for Japan to be able to trade.

So it will be many years before China can become an effective commercial partner with Japan.

Now, Japan is alert to space up to the fact that they cannot continue to have an enormous favorable balance of trade with the free world.

On the order of $9 billion, they have a favorable balance with virtually everyone.

Now, for example, their benchmark of the day is the United States.

But we are going to have to take measures to get more equal treatment so that this is just a one-way street.

We cannot be over them and have them close to us.

The European community has been very effective with various devices in keeping Japanese imports from destroying some of their own industries.

I think that the CIA has been very effective in hiding certain instruments to imply that the Japanese function, the importation of Japan, destroys certain illustrious...

And Europe may find it necessary to open up some to Japan.

But again, even with Europe, where Japan's favorable balance is not nearly as great as it is with the US, the Japanese must face the fact that if they can't have it all their own way, they must open up for investment.

trade to the free world.

But also in the case of Japan, in the case of Europe, where Japan does not have such favorable payments as in the case of the United States, Japan will have to face the fact that it cannot have all the advantages, they will have to open their markets and their economies to major investments and trade in other countries.

We have a delicate problem in the free world because the Japanese are the hardest barbers in the world.

And on the one hand, while we must drive some good partners with them, on the other hand, it's very important to keep them oriented toward the West.

As far as Tanaka is concerned, he is what we would call the new boy in town.

He is more nationalistic than the old regimes which ran through Yoshida, Ikeda, Kishi and so on.

This poses a problem because beneath the surface of Japan, in my view, the younger people particularly, the growing nations,

So, while we could not discourage Japan in its efforts to have better relations with China,

Our goal must be to never let Japan feel that it is outside the club.

Japan must always feel that it is a member of the great complex of free industrial nations.

So what we have to do is to make sure that while we don't have to discourage the Japanese, we have to discourage the Japanese completely from making certain relations with China, which perhaps could be considerable.

However, our goal must remain to ensure that Japan never feels excluded from the world.

So on one hand I urge the Prime Minister to be conciliatory

his talks with Kanaka and other Japanese leaders, but also realistic in terms of the need for Japan.

If it is going to be a member of the

free world of trade and monetary law to recognize that it cannot continue to have this tremendous favorable balance against the rest of the world.

And so I would recommend to the Minister of the Council to take a rather conciliatory position in relation to Tanaka in his conversation with us, in the sense that Japan, the Japanese leaders can feel this

this sentiment, but on the other hand it could also proceed based on a realistic setting, in the sense that the Japanese must realize that the way they remain, that they continue as an effective member of the free world, in terms of trade, of the free world, they must recognize that they cannot

to remain in a position that has a constant balance of payments so favorable against the rest of the world.

I would like to make an observation first, that the hope of being able to have

more or less in this period, the opening of a Chinese market, even without a great initial advantage, but for the pre-constitution of the position, it was illustrated to me nine years ago during the time that I lived in Tokyo, in the most important industrial area.

the Japanese, who shared that they could not use forever their exchange rate, also to use the market with a common type of transaction with small countries, more or less, but they thought that after 10 years, so more or less in this period, if they could open the market, not only the market today,

I don't know if in this there is also a bold move to ensure that, with agreements with Russia, they can obtain some advantage, in the sense that Russia is not too grateful that they have good relations with China.

As for the relations with us, there are sectors in which

the competition that has become absolutely impossible, like the factories in Havana, where today, if I'm not mistaken, Japan builds 60% of all the rest of the world, and prices such that you could really take even more.

I would like to make a remark on this connection

First, this hope by the Japanese to open up the Chinese market for their products more or less in this period was expressed to me nine years ago by some leading Japanese industrialists at the time of the Tokyo Olympic Games.

They told me that they might open up this Chinese market, although it was a very

with no initial advantage, just in order to pre-constitute their positions for greater expansion in the future.

In this meeting, Japanese industrialists recognized 10 years ago that they could not go on forever with this large advantage, trade advantage for Japan, or they could not go on with these more or less clandestine transactions or operating through Hong Kong or through other manner of countries with just

give their name for Japanese production.

And so they were forecasting that in 10 years or less, that is to say now, this year, the Chinese market could be opened up for Japanese products.

This might also be a very smart move on the part of the Japanese in order to gain some advantages from the Russians

if they enter into any agreements with Soviet Russia because Russia could not like very much that they should take good trade relations with China and so in exchange Russia could offer some advantages to Japan.

Secondly, concerning their relations with Italy, or with us in general, there are some sectors already in which competition is no longer possible with Japanese products.

This is the case of shipbuilding, where the Japanese already have 60% of the world market of shipyards and shipbuilding, and they sell at so low prices that they could even take up more of the world ship market.

So perhaps we should conclude some special NATO agreements with Japan, indicating some sectors in which their expansion can be tolerated or even further fostered, and some sectors in which, instead, their expansion should absolutely be curbed down and stopped.

I would like to ask you, since you did not speak at the meeting in October,

Avendo delle pressioni per accelerare la parte del portatore del suo parolo, perché mi sembra che a fine anno ci saranno dei contatti molto approfonditi,

Russia, Japan, and now we would like to be able to discuss first so as not to find further competition.

I don't know how objective this is and how diplomatic it would be, but I think it is an argument to be considered.

Yes, I must also say that before we went to Soviet Russia in October last year, we received some pressures from the Soviet ambassador in Rome, who suggested that we should speed up our visit to Japan.

To Russia, sorry.

We should speed up that visit, which we made last October, to Russia.

Because at the end of this year, they are going to start important contacts between the USSR and Japan.

So we would be faced by even another competitor.

This is what he said.

I don't know whether this was an objective statement or just a diplomatic device.

In the end, I say that since I believe that there will be an expansion of trade unions in Japan, and this will probably bring their costs of production to a higher level, because today there is a great amount of control over other countries,

And lastly, I believe that there is going to be an expansion of trade unionism in Japan, which means that their production costs should be raised, and so they should gradually lose this great advantage, which now they have in the other countries with production costs.

President, if you allow me, I would like to talk briefly about another topic, and that is Argentina.

In recent months we have had contacts, I myself have seen them twice, but in Rome I have seen President Cacquara, and I am concerned about their fundamental position, which is a position that is not friendly to the United States.

For the time being, in our relations, given the composition of the assets, we have a very favorable availability.

We have to say that if we can do something to be able to establish better relationships,

that has said how much it can be done in Latin America.

We are at your disposal.

If you know me, Mr. President, I would like to briefly touch another issue, that is to say, Argentina.

I had some thorough contact during the last month with the Argentinian leaders.

I met Perón twice in Rome and also met the new president, Campo.

And I must say I'm very concerned by their basic attitude, which is not very friendly to the United States.

Concerning Italy, there...

This is nothing new.

I believe that in 1943, de Ronde was even thinking of making war to the United States.

In any case, their attitude towards us, on the contrary, is very favorable because also half of the Argentinian population is of Argentinian origin.

So we are at your disposal.

We can do anything to help the United States to get better relations with Latin America or to clarify its position with Argentina.

That's very important.

We have a difficult relationship there, but I think that to the extent that the ability of the Prime Minister to keep the lines in Argentina

and see that they don't become completely radicalized and will greatly serve the interests of peace in the whole Latin American continent.

Of course, we have a very particular and complex relationship with the construction forces in that sector, with Argentina, but as long as Italy and you, with your leadership, Mr. President, are able to maintain these lines of contact with Argentina, so that the situation

Yes, I would like to suggest, if I may,

I would like to recommend, if I may, to encourage contacts

trade unions from the United States and from Argentina.

This is the type of relations between unions which can improve their effect.

Yes, because, first of all, I know that Erdogan had a great ambition in Egypt.

He said, the governor Rockefeller, but maybe he was more inclined, according to me, I don't know much about the language, but maybe he was more inclined for that purpose.

In fact, I remember that once the governor of Russia went to Argentina on a good, good mission and had the greatest esteem of him, but perhaps he was not the best person for the kind of mission to have.

Oh, shall we?

I think that our trade unions are interested in Latin America.

And Henry, let's make another meeting on that.

We'll see if we can step up that trade.

In Argentina, unfortunately, the problem is that most of the trade unions are very terrorist.

In my opinion, our trade unions have a strong interest in Latin America.

The President suggested that we contact Mr. Mini so that he can identify our activities and our interests.

I would like to add that in Argentina, however, it is difficult to see that many trade unions are oriented in the Peronist sense.

Yes, but this can be quite the effect of, among other things, a better reception of contact.

I do not think it is the means that has the possibility of having results, while other means are more difficult.

Yes, but this can be an advantage in order to resume these contracts in a more effective manner.

And I believe this channel of the trade unions can be effective, whereas other channels may be more difficult.

We'll explore it.

That's a very good idea.

And nobody would like to ask me any questions, Mr. Perkins?

I wonder if the Prime Minister has any feelings about the NBFR.

Does he feel that these consultations are going forward in the correct manner?

In that connection, I would say that there were several Senators that the Prime Minister was very strong in his appearance before the Foreign Relations Committee and were grateful.

I would like to ask the Prime Minister to consider any

I have a question regarding the reduction of the forces.

I wonder if you think that the movement in this sector aims to have a progress, an adequate progress,

In this regard, among other things, you have said that you have been quite strong in your speech in front of the Commission of Eastern Relations in relation to NATO, and we are very grateful for that.

I think that Russia, to be able to accept a disarmament,

and to be able to do it also with force the politicians against the Russian military need to have counter-parties.

One of the counter-parties can be

to link, if not legally, but as times, link the European Security Conference to the first steps that can be established for the reduction of life jackets.

We have already discussed the European Security Conference yesterday.

It is certainly a fact full of dangers, but it can also be a fact

useful for the West.

If we knew how we are doing so far, we would know that we aspire very well as a NATO country, as a Western country.

So, the first point should be this, to encourage the Commission, if it wants, and if it gets some results, to the European Commission, to make concrete steps in the matter of the reduction of armaments.

The second question, the reduction of human rights, has a technical value but also a symbolic value of use.

I believe that for this reason we should

to set, again, especially in the case of the cabinet, to set the times in which it is necessary, for example, to add a Europeanization of these ideas, of the defense of Europe, and then work to present, to connect this also with the financial solution of the government.

In this respect, I believe that in order to convince the USSR to agree to a reduction of armament, and also in order that their politicians, Soviet politicians, should be in a favorable position vis-à-vis the military,

we should offer some advantages in return for such a reduction of armament to Russia.

One of these possible advantages to be offered then in return can be to connect, not from a legal viewpoint, but just from the viewpoint of timing, to connect the Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe to the early stages of armament reduction.

We spoke already yesterday on the conference on security in Europe, and we said that this involves many dangers for us, but also it may prove useful and worthwhile for the West if, as we have done so far, we go on having a good part and effective action within this enhancing peace conference.

So, first, I would like to say that 8.1

We must say, the USSR, that if they want to achieve a great result within the CSCE, they should take some concrete steps for the reduction of armament.

The two things should be connected from the viewpoint of timing.

And secondly, this reduction of armament has not only a technical value, but also a symbolic value.

It shows the path towards which we wish to go.

This is mainly obviously now a problem for the United States, but I think among Western nations we should agree what should be the timing for Europe to take on herself the burden of defense.

This burden sharing of defense in Europe should be usually agreed upon between the United States and European countries.

And the second idea is to connect this reduction of armament with the conference.

and with the NDIS funds?

We, as the Prime Minister, can be sure that we will try to maintain our own strength in Quebec until there is a future reduction.

I want to assure you, Mr. President, that we will make every effort to maintain our strength and our commitment until there is a truly reciprocal reduction.

What the Prime Minister says about Berkshire, of course, is music to the ears of our senators in Congress.

We know what a difficult problem it is for the nations of Europe.

But we are also

confronted here, as the Prime Minister finds when he talks to our senators, with considerable numbers who think that because we've met with the Russians and the Kremlin that now it's a very safe world and that we can unilaterally reduce our portions.

Perhaps you have noticed the fact that we have some contacts here in Senato, as deputies, with considerable numbers.

The idea is that since we have had certain contacts with leaders of the youth,

This means that now we live in a safe world, and that we can live our lives unilaterally.

One of the reasons for controlling the Roman Empire is to believe that the Adeltsani were the ones who lived and not the ones who died.

This was one of the reasons of the collapse of the Roman Empire, that the Romans thought that their territories were weak and not what they really were.

This is really the... in all the... in all the oppositions of the radical and libertarian world, always brought to the grave.

And to not...

to recognize that in this stage, they create a theory, that is, the theory that the millions have changed, that they are good, that they did not want to do bad things.

I am convinced that if President Trump had been behind the military force that the United States and the alliance have, he would not have been able to do his right politics in Russia, in the control of China and in general of the world.

So it seems that his commitment is absolutely consistent and responsible.

Yes, you know, in any situation we find, all over the world, that the radicals are always tending to yield in positions and to surrender vis-a-vis their opponents, and in order not to confess this moral attitude of cowardness, they build up an entire philosophy saying that the others, the opponents, have changed and now they have

I'm convinced that if President Nixon had not had behind his shoulders the strength of the United States and of the Atlantic, he could not have undertaken his just policies, whether it be Russia, China, and the rest of the world, whereas you have shown a very consistent and responsible commitment in this connection.

I couldn't agree more.

I think that if only the big five, if only we can

to a more effective job of winning the opinion makers in our various countries, to a more realistic point of view, that's our problem, and that's something that I will work on, and I know the Prime Minister will work on.

Any other questions?

As I said before, it will be possible for the five greats to be more and more effective in winning this contest.

to win the minds of the public opinion, especially in those environments that most influence the public opinion of our respective countries, so that they can give a more realistic position to the problems of the world.

This is our true goal, and I will work hard to protect and solve these problems, as I know that the law will do.

The Prime Minister, I know, has a, I'm sorry, a new luncheon with members of Congress.

Very important to us.

We had just a few last night, and all those that didn't come would be very angry with us, so you give me that line, you don't have to hear me.

I want to say to the Prime Minister before we leave that in our talks that his presence here has been most reassuring.

He's encouraging to see a European leader who is not blind to the real dangers.

that still exists, and who is willing to take great political risks to stand up, stand for a policy which will meet those dangers.

We are encouraged to see the example of a European leader who is not blind to the dangers that continue to exist in our world, who is willing to accept political risks to represent, to defend a certain setting, a specific setting that allows us to face these dangers.

But I guess you talked before about the natural terror.

The Prime Minister was then the owner of the gas bridge.

And I can say, in complete honesty, that he was right.

And that's the highest compliment I can pay to any leader.

I have to say that I have no doubt that Elia is right about this.

And this, in my opinion, is the only compliment I could give to any political leader.

Thank you very much for your presence.

I take this as an observation, as a wish to know and be aware of this situation.

As far as taking into account the problems of the defense, perhaps I have had the advantage of being the Minister of Defense for seven years and I have been able to say that in one thing alone I am a witness

I have never seen NATO make an offensive plan, but only defensive plans, and this defensive structure must absolutely be maintained to the extent of its needs.

Thank you very much for your statement, Mr. President.

I take it not as a factual observation on my person, but as a wish which you expressed that I may stand up to the situation and face it as it is required.

Concerning the fact that I always take into account the problems of defense, I had the advantage of having been a minister of defense for seven years, and I was able to take a seat in something of which I stand as a witness.

In NATO, I never saw any plans being made for offense.

I always saw only defensive planning being made within NATO, and surely these defensive plans should be retained in the future.

We will try to maintain our own strength until there is a mutual reduction.

Until there is a mutual reduction.

I want to assure Mr. President that we will make every effort to maintain our strength and our commitment until there is a reduction.

What the prime minister says about the British, uh, What the prime minister says about the British, of course, is music to the ears of our senators in Congress.

We know what a difficult problem it is for the nations of Europe.

We know what a difficult problem it is for...

in Montana, the nations of Europe.

We are also here, as the Prime Minister finds when he talks to our Senate in Montana.

We are also here for considerable numbers who think

confronted here, as the Prime Minister finds it, because we've met with the Russians, and he talks to our senators with the Kremlin, but now it's a very sacred number to the world, and that we can unilaterally produce our forces.

We've met with the Russians.

But now it's a very safe world.

Perhaps in our Senate, as deputies, you, as a member of the Legislative Council, consider, among other things, the idea that, since it is possible to observe the fact that we have a certain appreciation for you in our Senate, as deputies, we have had certain contacts with the leaders of Friuli, does this mean that, as a member of the Legislative Council,

The idea is that since we live in a safe world, that we are safe, we have our moments of light.

Some contacts with the leaders of the youth, etc.

This means...

This was one of the reasons of the collapse of the Roman Empire.

This was one of the reasons of the

In all the oppositions... ...of the Roman Empire, the Romans of the 13th century were... ...in the radical world... ...we and not all the... ...universities... ...always brought to the... ...really were... ...in the middle... ...and... ...this is really the... ...pardon... ...in all...

to recognize that in this stage of blackmail they create a theory of the oppositions of the radical world, the universal, that is, the theory that I have brought to the people who have changed, who are dead, who do not want to do such things.

I am convinced that you are dead and forgive me,

I'm sorry.

The military force that the United States and the Alliance have, they create a theory, that is, a theory that the others have changed, that they have absolutely failed to create their rightful policy, that Russia and the United States are going to do things against China and the world in general.

I am convinced that they have always had the military force at their back.

Yes, you know, in any situation we'll find,

The radicals are always tending to yield in positions and to surrender in the face of their opponents.

And in order not to confess that this is more an attitude of cowardness, you know, the NMCA gives up an entire philosophy saying that the occupation will find all over the world that the radicals are always tending to yield and others, the opponents, have changed and now they're having...

to surrender to be their opponent, become friends.

Unconvinced that if President Nixon had not had, and in order not to confess to this immoral act, and had it behind his shoulders, the strength of the United States and power in it, they used up an entire philosophy set by the Atlantic Alliance.

He could not think that the others, the opponents, had undertaken his just means, and now they

He could not have undertaken his justice.

I think that...

If only we can...

I think that...

to a more effective job of winning the opinion makers in our various countries to a more realistic.

If only the big five, if only we can, that's our problem and that's something that I will work on and I know the Prime Minister will work on.

to a more effective job of winning the opinion makers in our various countries.

To a more realistic point of view, that's our problem, and that's something that I will work on, and I know the Prime Minister will work on.

Thank you.

This is, as I said in the past, if it will be possible in the past, that the five great...

They could simply be more effective in winning this contest.

to overcome the elements of public opinion, especially those that influence the public opinion, especially those that influence the public opinion of our respective countries, so that they can give a more realistic position to the world,

so that they can give an impulse.

This is our real goal.

And I am the most realistic of all the people in the world.

This is our real goal.

And I will do my best, I will do my best, in order to protect and solve this problem, because I know that it will also do justice.

In order to protect and solve this problem, because I know that it will also do justice.

I'm sorry.

We had just a few last night, and all those that didn't... We had just a few last night, and all those that didn't come to be very angry with us.

So if you come to be very angry with us, you can get me that line.

You don't have to hear me.

So you can get me that line.

You don't have to hear me.

My mother.

I want to say to the Prime Minister, in our talks, that his presence here has been most reassuring.

He is encouraging.

The European leader is not blind.

He's not blind to the real dangers.

To the real danger that still exists.

That still exists.

and who is willing to take great political risks to stand up, to stand up, stand for a policy which will meet those dangers.

Which will meet those dangers.

It's really...

still encourages us to see the example of a free European who is not blind, nor does he know the example of a

The European leader is not blind to the threats that continue to exist in our country.

If he responds to the threats that continue to exist in our country, to accept political risks,

Dr. Gessner told me before we met Dr. Gessner told me before we met that the prime minister was in the mold the prime minister was in the mold of the gas brain

uh

And I can say to you in complete honesty that he was right.

And that's the highest compliment I can pay to any leader, that he was right.

And that's the biggest problem I can face in any country.

And I will be there.

Thank you very much for the invitation, Mr. Nixon.

What does it mean to be free?

Thank you very much for this, Mr. Nixon, for this.

I take it more as a song, as a wish.

I take it more as a song to know how to be

to be aware of the problems, of the defense, perhaps, or as far as taking into account the importance of

to be perfected in defense and I wanted to say that in one thing alone I am a witness that in NATO I have never seen

I have never seen NATO make an offensive plan, but only offensive plans, defensive plans and this structure, but only offensive plans.

Thank you very much for...

I take it not as a fact of observation on my person, but as a wish which you express that I may stand up to the situation and face it as it is required.

Concerning the fact that I always take into account the problems of defense, I have the fact that I always take into account the problems, the advantage of having been a defense for seven years, having been a minister of defense for seven years.

and I was able to take a scene something which I planned as a witness I was able to take a scene in NATO I never saw anything which I planned as a witness in NATO I never saw any plans being made for offence I always saw only defensive planning being made I always saw only defensive in NATO

and surely this planning being made within NATO, the defensive plan should be retained in the future.