Conversation 904-008

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We're both trial lawyers.

Sure.

And we've been prosecutors.

Right.

So that if I let go of an air of amnesty, could you discount it?

Right.

I just want you to make your case.

Thank you.

The first point is, we are much better informed about things than we were the other night.

I'm going to be brief on the sensitive point.

Right.

The sensitive point on both of these fellows, but for different reasons.

is the raising, or the providing of money, or the suggestion.

Yes, yes.

And in Bob's case, this began right after election, time-wise, by Dean telling him that money was needed for the families and lawyers' fees.

Nothing happened at that time.

A little later on, they came back with more pressure, and Bob said that he had already been talking about getting this money out of the White House, $325,000 out of the White House.

The one who was controlling it.

And so he said, without any intention as to what its use was, he says, get the money over to the committee, get it out of here.

Now, as far as that's, that's, that's, as far as John is concerned.

On that, the money was delivered in two installments.

I think it was.

It was to the room that was testified.

Yes, that's right.

And that was, I suppose, this, there is this significance that would be drawn having to look at it in its worst.

This is delivered at night.

It's a parking lot.

Yes.

And so forth and so on.

Strong delivery.

Now, I have to tell you, his activity this meal had to do with conflict.

This arose early in the summer of 71 when the appeal was made.

Probably, it's all right.

.

. .

That was the case for this February of this year.

And here again, I've read notes on the callback, and he insists that he did humanitarian services on it.

And I haven't in doubt that he was.

And this is the area

for different reasons of the two of them.

I am found that from questions of the press, that they think Bob is more involved, I mean, I'm having to discuss facts and pressure, than John, who I don't know why we're representing both of them.

And the answer was the same.

So if I think if we could talk quantitatively

John is lower on the ladder than Bob, but the character of the subject matter is quite similar.

John Irwin called Kambach, as well as Dean called Kambach, at least Kambach associated, I should say, inside government information, other sources, not Kambach, and said it's all right to raise money for some of the tenants.

In Bob's case, he was aware that it was going to be very costly to use for this purpose.

Now, the weakness of their position lies in the fact that somebody down the line, or even Dean, said that the plan was to shut the mouths of the

The purpose of this was rather than to help them with their fees and their families.

Yes.

Humanitarianism.

But these guys are going to talk once we give them money.

Ah.

Yes, that's it.

That's the statement.

And even if...

But in terms of directly attending, if you would raise a question about the illegal problems...

Now, the weakness of the subject matter, and the answer is the same, the weakness of the subject matter.

So if I think, if we could talk quantitatively, John is lower on the ladder than Bob, but the character of the subject matter is quite similar.

Basically, so you're trying to reclaim the state of the...

John Irwin called Kambach, as well as Dean called Kambach, at least Kambach associated, I should say.

So I got a little information from other sources on Kambach, and said that it's all right to raise money for some of the tenants.

In Bob's case, he was aware that it was going to be very costly to use for this purpose.

Now, the... Now, the... Now, the... Now, the...

And incidentally, there is a case on the Federal Circuit in U.S. State.

Incidentally, there is a case on the Federal Circuit in U.S. State.

In a late case, 4 and 55...

This is not contentment.

I am in doubt.

This means that the mental state of these two boys is an exception.

And in failure to prove that, my creation case would mean a direct verdict.

Now, the 1510...

is a mild intent to a prediction.

And in failure to prove that, whoever willfully endeavours by means of and so forth to obstruct, delay, or prevent the communication of information leading to the violation of any prediction, and in failure to prove that, in a minor patient case, it would mean that the verdict would be 15, maintain not the

by any person to a criminal investigator, whoever willfully condemns.

Now, you know, sir, it is a 1510.

Whoever, in milder intents, willfully condemns by means of bribery and so forth.

Willfully condemns by means of bribery and so forth to obstruct, delay, or prevent the communication of information

to obstruct, delay, or prevent the communication of any violation of any criminal statute by any person of information relating to a violation of any criminal statute by any to a criminal investigator, whoever willfully, person to a criminal investigator, whoever willfully condemns.

Now, you know, sir, condemns.

Now, you know, sir, that willfully has had different connotations.

In some statutes, willfully means that willfully has had different connotations.

In some statutes, it means for the evil purpose.

In other statutes, it means only consciously or knowingly.

In other statutes, willfully means for the evil purpose.

In other statutes, it means only consciously annoyingly.

I can make a plausible argument.

It's what we mean for the evil purpose.

In other statutes, it means only consciously annoyingly.

How convincing to a judge how to be annoyingly.

I can make a plausible argument.

How convincing to a judge how to be annoyingly.

How convincing to a judge I would be not certain that I think he could make one especially certain that I think he could make one especially certain that I think he could make one especially certain that I think he could make one especially certain that I think he could make one especially certain that I think he could make one especially certain that I think he could make one especially certain

I think while they're reaching for something like this, I think while they're reaching for something like this, I think it's mostly the thrust of the misconduct of the defendant.

The thrust of the misconduct of the defendant is mostly the thrust of the misconduct of the defendant.

That's a good argument.

So if we can come back, we can make a specific intent.

Now that.

And this is an attempt, actually.

Now, you know, sister, say you have to compete.

Now, if the court would build a conspiracy on top of whoever willfully condemns this, the conspiracy still, while the conspiracy willfully condemns

If we don't agree, make up peace.

If we can make up, there's living intent out of that.

And this is an attempt.

A conspiracy must commit a crime.

And you must go, they must go to these statutes.

If it's a conspiracy, they must go to these statutes.

And a conspiracy is very, very bad.

And this is an attempt statute.

The analysis doesn't work.

With a corrupt legal statute, the analysis doesn't work.

So you have to compete.

Now, if it, or willfully, whichever it is,

And I'm coming to something that's confusing, saying you have to compete.

Now, if you can build a conspiracy on top of this, the conspiracy still on top of this, the conspiracy still, while the conspiracy has its own grievance, the conspiracy has its own grievance, the conspiracy must commit a crime.

And you must go...

The conspiracy must commit a crime.

And you must, they must go to these statutes.

If it's a conspiracy, it can be these statutes.

And so, they must go to these statutes.

If it's a conspiracy, it can be these statutes.

Conspiracy is labeled as burdened with corrupting.

And a conspiracy is labeled as burdened with corrupting, whichever it is.

And I, I'm coming to something that's absolutely corrupting or wilfully, whichever it is.

And I'm coming to something that's a few minutes.

But I do not think that these men... A few minutes.

But I do not think that these men...

Criminally...

I don't know...

Criminally...

As long as he sees the other, as I say, even if you make him a criminal, as long as he sees his factors, I don't know, he just shot them in the spirit.

Now, if I make his factors, I don't know of any other, as I say, if I make, as I say, even if you make the other, as I say, just shot them in the spirit.

As I say, even if you make it, just shot them in the spirit.

Drop my role as an advocate for a moment and be arrested.

Now, if I make, if I make,

If I may drop my role as an advocate for a moment and suggest certain things.

I was an advocate for a moment and wish to be a recommender.

May I be permitted to do and find a way to care for our people?

May I be permitted to suggest certain things?

to suggest certain things.

I would, I would wish that of the theory in which they are buzzing around these two boys.

I'd like him to put down on paper, which won't be easy, how he, how he would find a way to do it.

Mark Peterson would give you a written memory.

I'm the fairy of one which they are buzzing around these two boys.

I'd like him to put down on paper which won't be easy.

How he...

I wish that he would find a way to care to impart peace and forgive them and remember him.

I'm the fairy of one which they are buzzing around these two boys.

I'd like him to put down on paper which won't be easy.

How he...

How do we conduct a crime?

I'll pass that over.

That's my recommendation.

I'll pass that over.

Second, Nate.

There's some suggestions.

I'm going to be putting it a little bit under a month.

I'm very from our clients, but our clients, it's something that could be done.

It will be done in a moment.

I would recommend to you, I would recommend to you, I would recommend to you, I would recommend to you that you take a position firmly with being a man to you, that you take a position

that you take a position primarily with the fetus.

Now, I'm not suggesting anything to you.

I'm not suggesting anything to you that I don't think exists.

I think it's...

I'm coming to that.

And a couple minutes.

And may I?

Yes.

Let me say this.

While we've got two clients, I know you're going to believe us when we say that we're just going to sit and wait a minute.

Just when we sit and wait a minute.

If you're interested, if you and the president, if you and the president, if you and these two men in the president,

And we don't want you to get hurt.

I didn't want them.

Matter of fact, I didn't want them.

Matter of fact, I'm sure we're going to say we want them.

Matter of fact, I'm sure we're going to say that we want you to get hurt.

I think we're going to get hurt.

And I think they need them.

Now, yesterday we went to the courthouse.

Now, yesterday we went to the courthouse on a deposition in a wheel case.

A deposition in a wheel case.

We had a perfectly good excuse to be in CODIS.

And we were, we got through about five.

Hunt, now, really, he's, you know, there was a loose talk about clemency, do you understand?

Well, yes.

There was no damn promise of clemency in the present.

I'm not that stupid.

I don't believe it.

On the other hand, I'm very sure that they were told that.

I was very sure that they were told that.

Everybody said, gee, we're going to try to get you clemency.

Mitchell may have told them that.

Colson may have told Colson's a friend of Hunt's.

My guess is that Colson told Whitman, a friend of, from what I've heard, the attorney for Hunt, who's going to talk to him if you know Whitman.

Oh, I know him, and I know he's an avaricious fellow, and he and his other staff didn't tell him.

But in this case, he's got his checker right here.

Actually, he's going to be indicted.

Do you?

I think there's a lack of information.

Indicted what?

Because of the...

Lack of information.

Blackmail about what?

Well, he went to Colson, I think it was Colson, and said that if one didn't get $120,000, I think it was, that one was going to spill all the steamy side of things at the White House.

And also that, and that was also...

That was the one that was even conveyed to me, you know.

And so I had a dean.

Dean told me about that one, and told all of them that early on.

So they were aware of that.

Nothing was done from here.

Nothing was done.

But that's when we started our, I started my own investigation.

I forgot to say something.

I'll be blanking on it.

But that happened.

So, you see, that's tough, Teddy, isn't it?

It is tough.

What's better than when he gets blackmailed?

I mean, when he gets indicted, what does he say on that?

Is he going to come out with that?

I'm not sure of a deal.

There's words to speak through, for example, that somebody named Rivers called in and said, come downstairs.

There's a package for you.

He's in a good law firm.

He's at Hogan & Robinson Law Firm, which is high grade.

And a gentleman goes downstairs and gets a round package of $25,000 in currency.

An exception, Mike.

Runs through the firm.

Rivers is the roof.

Is it?

That's what I hear.

Understand, Mark?

I say I think it is.

You know, these lawyers in practice, there's really some incredible law.

You've got to write hard practice.

Now, Frank and I get in and out of it in cases over the years, but the fellas are good at it.

That one does nothing but this.

Uh, he's pretty callous to the ethics.

I bet, I bet, without any question.

I'm trying to shake down one of his attorney's fees and so forth.

I don't know whether he got it or not.

He may have, he may have.

He sure didn't get it from home or earth.

He didn't get it from us.

But Dean, Dean knows that the threat was made.

That's, Dean knows this.

Now, looking at Dean,

uh, that loose cannon.

Dean said no problem.

Basically, there's a possibility that Dean could get invited for the act itself.

You know, he, he's in and out.

I don't know.

Probably maybe he could get out of that for a second, but he's in and out of touch with the police, so let's leave that.

There is a possibility that he could be indicted for his conspiracy with regard to this, except that he might get out on the same ground all the time.

Earlier, he said, look, I'm sure I'm going to get money for these defendants, whether it was humanitarian and so forth.

That would be his defense, wouldn't it?

Yes, unless, you see, he had more contact with the people over at the committee.

He may have said things over there, which Bob and John had said.

John had said it.

Yes, of his.

He says, no, we're doing this to keep these people quiet.

I think it's very likely he would have done that.

But on the other hand, let's put it this way.

I'm thinking of all of my good friends.

Of everything else, I don't want them to be on purpose.

I know that, I know that.

And that's your job.

My point is that with Dean's testimony alone, that's what you leave out there.

This would be, this would be dependent on him on, uh, on what he says and what he says on us.

Yeah, on Dean.

And, uh, uh, Dean is, uh, Dean is, I don't know, he's playing a horror game, playing a

But he talks about, well, he talks about one side of the matter, and he says he's not going to do that.

Well, I'm sorry, he says he's, uh, you know, I, uh, as my customer, I used to call him on staff.

I didn't call him, uh, just, I don't know, maybe, uh, but I suggest you do.

But, uh, let's see, he mentioned that, but nevertheless, my point is, on the...

As far as Dean was concerned, what he did, he was doing it, he was doing it, and could claim that he was doing it, with the knowledge of Holden and Irving.

only has this this takes us into one place where we as lawyers recognize the risk but we also recognize that for dean to really implicate john and bob you've got to put yourself in the middle and this is the dilemma that faces him

I said, I know they put strong through.

I said, I should know too that they put strong in.

They both put strong in.

I know they're true on me.

They believe in Ruger and they don't believe in Strong, but that should not concern you too much in one sense, because Ruger's a vessel wire.

He's told about 18 different stories.

Strong's a straight arrow kind of guy.

I hope they've got any more written in there.

I don't know where.

What's the problem?

I don't know.

Uh, he's just a figure-closer.

I know, but he's not a lawyer.

Not yet.

That's impressive.

Uh, my point is that the lie detector guests don't mean anything.

You know, it depends on... Shh!

Uh, I wouldn't use it, but my point is...

I think, I think... ...that they've got to do something about it, or they're going to be blown out of the water.

And I don't know that...

I would certainly like that.

You, representing our guys, whoever represents my children's beliefs in the Grand Jury, can then practically poison this case, or does it have an impact on this case?

That's my question.

Attacking the Grand Jury as a functioning body is a very difficult task.

We need all those people.

The second point is that our getting back to the

Uh, if you get the problem of a billion per day, uh, we've discussed that before.

Uh, I held a, I looked at a little checkbook, so we checked on it last week, and we used it in the transaction.

And I understand, at the present time, there is no transaction.

Am I correct that the transaction in 1970

that they can grant a call of community only with regard to those matters that he testifies that might affect him.

But as far as other things, they get that from other people, they cannot get it from him.

But they could, on the other hand, they could say, look, we've reached you very well, boy.

That's it.

If they use him as a witness, unless he is the most convincing soul in the world, he'd fall into the hell.

in the cross-examination.

What have you been taught in this interview?

You take two men of the character, Calvary and John, and you put character witnesses on them.

If you go as far as that, you don't regret it.

And thereby, having someone destroy D,

You're right, Dave.

Well, I think we'd have to do this with Dane.

Dane is the head of all the S.E.S., Trevor.

He went to...

I don't think he would go this far in a number of conversations in this office.

We believe that we can talk about shutting the body down, but to be graceful, even with me, he should never have done it.

This last business that I've been in is setting me up.

And that's when I, we were, and that's when he raised our, that's blackmail.

I said, blackmail.

That's what started my, that was about the 21st.

What is it?

He's a damn fool.

He's not a very experienced guy.

He's a professional ethics at least.

He's shown a great deal of blackmail.

It's the Dean that ran it against me.

It's a movement invitation for him to put the name at a higher level.

Oh, yeah.

He put it in all her.

Now, his might be prosecuted, too.

I have an example on that score.

I mean, I have an example on that score.

I mean, Rube.

But you see, Hunt.

Rube.

But you see, Hunt.

Now, knowing that he isn't jailed at that point.

Now, there was a loose talk, really, that he isn't, you know... Now, there was a loose talk about violence, if you understand.

Well, yes.

Now, there was no talk about violence, if you understand.

Well, yes.

Now, there was no bad promises, bad promises.

No promises in the present, I'm not that stupid.

I don't believe it.

I'm very ashamed.

I'm very ashamed because if he isn't brand new to the county, let's look at it the other way.

That he hasn't been sent in there to drag everybody down or to spit even on the president.

That's what they're saying.

That's less than too sad.

I don't know what you're doing on that.

Well, of course, this is possible for Judas to do.

Uh-huh.

That's right.

But, uh... What you saw in the deep point, you see, is that he's going to go down.

No.

Don't put me in the deep point.

I would...

I would take it.

I mean, I...

I...

It's got to be yours.

They were told that.

I was very sure that they were told.

I was very sure that they were told that.

They were the ones that said, gee, we're going to try to get you out of this.

Mitchell may have told them, or the rule for Mitchell, or Colson may have told them.

Colson, I had told Colson, I was a friend of Hunt's.

My guess is that Colson told Bittman, a friend of Brenda Hunt's.

My guess is that Colson told Bittman, a friend of, from what I've heard, the attorney for Hunt.

From what I've heard, the attorney for Hunt, who's going to talk to me, you know, Bittman.

Oh, I know him, and I know he's an avaricious fellow, and he really knows that.

You know, Bittman.

Oh, I know him, and I know he's an avaricious fellow, and he really has overstepped his bounds.

In this case, he's got his checker right here.

I think he's going to be indicted.

Do you know who indicted this?

I think there's a black man.

In this case, he's got his checker right here.

I think he's going to be indicted.

Do you know who?

I think there's a black man.

He indicted one because of the black man.

Black man about what?

Why, he went to his...

He indicted one because of the black man.

Blackmail about what?

Well, he went to, uh, he went to Colson, I think it was Colson, and, uh, and said that, uh, that if, uh, Colson, I think it was Colson, and, uh, and said that, uh, that if, uh, I said, I had expressed my view that no major thing had happened.

I said,

I said, on the other hand, I also think you've got to make a decision based on a very close call, and that is, which way is I getting to tell the truth?

If granting a dignity isn't incentive, or if two, but...

they can grant him a guarantee and make the price so high that he has to get hold of the girl.

Or they can not grant him a guarantee and make him a defendant.

And then he's a defendant.

He's got to be concerned about getting himself.

But then the business might say, well, now we've been trying to get the president.

Well, that's a ruin.

Bear in mind, sir, that... We have discussed this possibility ourselves.

I understand he does have a base there.

Oh, bear in mind...

I think, I think that we have, we really have to destroy him before we find him.

Yes.

I don't know what kind of attack, if I may.

Uh, President, bear in mind, sir, that Dean faces a perjury indictment.

Any way he, any way he knows if he falls apart.

And the department,

No, but I mean, he does.

Because Hunt did get $120,000.

He did get $120,000.

I think it was.

That...

I think it was.

That... Hunt was going to spill all the steam inside.

He was going to...

spill all the steamy side of things that the void has.

Of things that the void has.

And so, and also that, and that, uh, that was also, uh, that was the one that would even convey to me, you know.

And so, and also that, and that, uh, so that was also, uh, that was the one that would even convey to me, you know.

I had a deed being told.

So I had a deed being told.

to me about that one did and told all of them that early one about it.

So they were to me about that one did and told all of them that early one about it.

So they were to me about that

So, uh, you see, that's, uh, that's tough, Teddy, isn't it?

That happened.

Yeah.

So, uh...

It is tough.

What's better, uh, you see, that's when he gets blackmailed, I mean, when he, when he gets, uh, denied, that's tough, Teddy, isn't it?

It is tough.

What's better, when he gets blackmailed, I mean, when he, when he gets denied, does he stay on that?

Does he come out with that?

Does he stay on that?

Does he come out with that?

I'm not sure where to speak through, for example, that somebody named Rivers called in and said, called in and said, come downstairs.

There's a package for you.

Now, he's in a good law firm.

He's in Hogan & Robinson's law firm.

Would you come downstairs to the high grade and have Zettman fill the down package for you?

Now, he's in a good law firm.

He's in there and gets a brown package from Hogan & Robinson's law firm for $23,000.

High grade.

And Zettman goes downstairs and gets a brown package for $25,000 in currency.

An exception, Mike.

Runs through the firm.

I say I think it is.

I doubt whether he is given immunity or whether he just is indicted and wants to spill his guts.

If he lies, perjury is saved from immunity in every one of these situations.

And he faces that.

Now, going back to my recommendations about Peterson,

Let me preface it with this remark and I want you to be sure that, I want to be sure that you understand that we are not mean to suggest anything improper.

You are, you are Peterson's boss.

That's right.

You are not, all you want to know is certain vital information.

That's right, right.

Not, not in regard to protection of individuals.

I know that.

Now, on the fourth point I made, I made, getting to give you a memo, sir.

I saw that.

Getting to cut short this crazy month idea is nothing worse than a scheme on their part to let this volcano erupt, uh, two or three times a day for the next month to see the losses coming forward in line.

Now, thirdly, and I didn't, I got this in my notes, though, but I think if you, there'd be no propriety if you were asking him, is Dean going to be indicted soon?

And the reason for that is...

I know.

I know that.

But I have questioned Dean every day.

I've said, what the hell is your deal with Dean?

So we're still in Orange Land, still trying to make some sort of arrangement with his attorneys.

Well, you see, he's got to break this to a close sometimes.

You're about it, but... You know, these lawyers who practice extremely incredible laws, you know, these lawyers who practice extremely incredible laws, get away with incredible laws, get away with hard cuts, hard cuts.

Now, Frank and I get in and out of it in cases over the years, but the fellas are good at that.

Frank and I get in and out of it.

in cases over the years, but the fact that he bought this, uh, he, uh, the fact that he bought this, uh, he, uh, it's pretty, it's pretty callous to, it's pretty callous.

I bet, I bet, without any question, we're kind of in shape now, uh, one of his attorneys and so forth, you know.

He may have.

He sure didn't get it delivered.

He may have.

He sure didn't get it delivered.

From home on Earth, not sure if I knew to get a question, but D, D knows that the Freckles made this.

D, no.

From home on Earth, not sure if I knew to get a question, but D, D knows that the Freckles made this.

D, no, this was, this was, not looking at D. Yeah, that loose cannon.

D said, not looking at D. Yeah, that loose cannon.

Dean said, hold on, hold on, hold on.

Basically, there's a possibility that Dean basically could have, there's a possibility that Dean could have got in with the act itself.

You know, got in with the act itself.

You know, he's in and out.

I don't know.

He's in and out.

I don't know.

Yes, unless you see...

Yes, he had more contact with the people on the committee.

He may have said things over there.

We may have said things over there, which Bob and John had said, which Bob and...

In other words, they made a cruise from the D.S.

A busy man.

Says, no, we're doing this.

Keep these people quiet.

But on the other hand, let's put it this way.

I'm thinking, oh, my good friends.

I don't know.

My point is that with beings.

My point is that testimony alone.

With beings, testimony alone.

That's what I'm saying.

That's what you read out there in the passage.

This would be, this would be dependent on it.

That's what you read out there in the passage.

This one would be, this would be the dependent on him on, uh, uh, he says, he says, he says, uh, on gross, and, uh, uh, on gross, and, uh, uh, he's, uh, he's, uh, he's, uh, he's, uh, he's, uh, he's, uh,

Because he's talking about eating.

He talks about what's happening.

Because he's talking about eating.

He talks about what's happening.

I'm sorry.

Thank you very much.

As far as other people concerned, what he did.

On the other hand, as far as Dave was concerned, what he did.

He was doing it.

This takes us into one place where we as lawyers...

This takes us into one place where we also recognize that for Dean to really implicate, we as lawyers find...

John and Bob recognize the risk.

You've got to put in something.

And this is, we also recognize that for Dean to really implicate the dilemma that faces him.

Well, the point that Dean, I'll mention first, is John and Bob, you've got to put in something.

You've got to put in something.

And this is the dilemma that faces him.

And I said, I said, I said, I said, I said,

Because I know they put strong through.

I know they put strong through.

I said I should know.

They put strong in.

They won't put strong in.

They put strong in.

They won't put strong in.

They're true.

They believe in her.

They don't believe strong.

But that should not concern you too much.

They're true.

They believe in Ruger and they don't believe in Strong, but that should not concern you too much in one sense.

Because Ruger is a facile wiser.

He sails about 18 different stories.

Strong is a straighter one.

Ruger is a facile wiser.

He sails about 18 different stories.

Strong is a straighter one.

He's just a figure of clothing right now.

He's not a lawyer, not yet.

That's accredited.

The lie detector tests don't mean anything, you know, it depends on...

Uh, I wouldn't use it, but I... My point is that the lie detector tests don't mean anything, you know, it depends on...

Uh, I wouldn't use it, but I... What happens is that you are faced by the press with a man who is being quoted.

He doesn't...

They don't know his direct testimony.

As admitting involvement and involving others.

And you're kicking me, and this is what the press says.

Well, the fact of the matter is, Patrick, I understand your point.

We've all got to understand it.

There's no need to send in a whole little part of your team.

Except for me.

It's not at the end, Dave.

Next week, let the press... Quiet, sir.

Quiet.

I don't know.

Now, on the other hand, if you've come to the point where you've got to get rid of it, and if by that time there have been developments that you feel you've done it, and it's for Bob's and John's recognition, these coincidences

I'm gonna be very bad.

And, God knows, I don't mean to... Now, I'm not trying to say that anywhere is near as smart as downtown.

But, I certainly feel that if you did call for

or receive resignations, which would be somewhat privately inspired, in the next few days, the explanation to the public is going to be very difficult to make on the basis of true plausibility.

Words, yes, but not true plausibility.

And I come back to you and say, sir, what I think is our number one

point here today with you, that if you keep them, and they are indicted, you are handed the best reason in the world to ask for their reservations.

And if you think well of it, and you have our letter, this gives you a public explanation of the fact that you were

Yeah.

Influence to believe.

Coming.

That's good.

I think that covers me.

That covers, perhaps, what I read on the article.

I think we have to realize, though, that I will still be faced with the higher judgment.

Yes, you will.

There's no question about it.

Basically, you should not discuss this with Father John Hunter Bittes.

The higher judgment is...

It's a tough thing in politics, the world of politics, where many good men leave who are notorious of anything wrong with it.

But they leave because, basically, their uselessness is impaired.

And the difficulty is that all the crime that has been put on us today, which is perhaps mild compared to what common beings are fresh around, you see.

You've got to remember that.

Then you've got the problem of infracting the poisonous case.

I don't remember.

Is it infracting the poisonous case?

The grand jury, as a functioning party, is a very difficult...

The need almost... Sacrifice... Sacrifice... Sacrifice... Sacrifice... Sacrifice...

There is no transaction in the present time.

whether or not, first, these men's ability to, frankly, represent the President, to work with the confidence, to have the confidence and so forth, is a good question.

And second, whether the President says, well, the standard of conduct here is only skating on that thin ice, which avoids

As you would do.

I know it is.

They all come down to the other side.

Well, may I?

They're not there to make me wrong, but the point is, they look at it.

That's where it's at.

They're not looking at it from the other side.

They, I don't know what we're about.

uh even though the most innocent

They can grant a call of community only with regard to those matters that he testifies.

With regard to those matters that he testifies.

That might affect him.

But as far as other things, they get that from other people.

They cannot get it from me.

But as far as...

But they could, on the other hand.

They could say that they get that from other people.

They cannot get it from me.

But they're good on the other hand.

They look and read you very well, boy.

You'll be able to prove and retrieve them.

Not weeks, just trails between months.

It's all a show, if they ever go to that show.

Over months.

The question will raise, does the president approve this every press conference, every press conference, every press conference?

Does the president, does the president believe, does the president believe that the $322,000 should be used for the purpose of paying the benefits for humanitarian things?

The question stands here, so I'm not going to comment on the case at this point.

But you know, that's a good technical answer, isn't it?

Hopefully.

But you use him as a witness, unless he is the most convincing.

Unless he is the most convincing, so the world he can follow.

So the world he can follow.

Hail to the cross-examination.

What have you done, Thomas?

Hail to the cross-examination.

What have you done, Thomas?

You take two men of the character of Calvary of John, and you put character witnesses on them.

It's because... And you put character with this.

That's what that's...

It's on.

It's because, boys, that you don't retract.

And they're not having... having... someone destroy...

They're not having... You would destroy me, well, I think... Having... having... someone destroy me.

You would destroy me, well, I think you'd do this with me.

You'd have to do this with me.

I don't think you can go this far in a number of conversations in this office, Bert.

We will get it on the SEC's credit even, too.

I don't think you can go this far in a number of conversations in this office.

The way I am facing things, and I can't talk as much as I would like to.

As a lawyer, I'm not going to let I say that, because I can throw that off the line and read that line and so forth.

But we have a different situation here, Bert.

We believe we can talk about shutting, but we don't talk about shutting.

But to be raised among, even with me, the destiny that we've never done.

Of this last, I'm coming up.

But to be raised among, even with me, we've never done.

Of this last, the things I have to weigh.

I just like metaphors when they're dealing with serious things of a sort.

But my reply to such important people and wise people is kind.

And that's when I, we right there, and that's when he raised, and that's when I, we right there, and that's when we were, and that's when he raised, and that's when he raised, and that's when he raised, and that's when he raised.

That was about 21st of May.

Well, let me say this, and I'll get to the point.

An expert has got to get to the end of my story.

A professional ethics, at least, has shown me a great deal of wisdom.

Then this is what makes, at least, has shown me a great deal of wisdom.

Then this is what Frank Wright has made, is that Dean has ran into the entity and has put an invitation for him.

Let's look at the other question.

This is this is possible for Judas to do.

Well, of course, this is possible for Judas to do.

All right, that's right.

But you saw the dates when I came to see you, is that he's going to go down?

You saw the dates when I came to see you, is that he's going to go down?

No, no.

Don't put me in these points.

I would say, I would, I would, I would, I would, I would take it.

I would take it.

I mean, I would take it.

I would take it.

First I had to tell it to you.

I said, first I had to tell it to you.

I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said,

First, the vitals are here already and deserve to be sold.

This was a hell of a bad thing to do.

And the cover-up, which there was, there was a cover-up.

You know, Dan Welch's cover-up wasn't intended.

But some of these clowns must not be talking because of this event.

But nevertheless, we know that.

And people around were involved in it.

That's what we know.

Bob and John certainly were involved in it.

But I don't need to be participating in it.

I said, I said, I said,

They might say, well, he's not an invasion because he's an agent.

Of course, that doesn't get him out of a crime.

They might say, well, he's not an invasion because he's an agent.

Of course, that doesn't get him out of a crime.

I said on the other hand, I also think you've got to make a decision based on a very close call.

And that is, what do you think you've got to make a decision?

What do you think you've got to make a decision based on a very close call?

And that is, what do you think you've got to make a decision?

What do you think you've got to make a decision?

So we're, the question is now, you've got three and a half years left in the presidency.

uh, sure you, you have to take, you don't get really angry, but the point is, the patient's gonna die.

And the argument, and other, the other point is, Bob and John, two of the most powerful men, the most trusted men, the president, and the president continue to function effectively with men who do not have

Yes, I know this is bad.

There's a problem.

Now, on that point, you see, you can make your case to God.

God will pray every night that you do.

And you will.

You will.

You've got to do it.

Because these are innocent men.

But the point is, if you've got three and a half years, they'll say, ah...

And I don't mean by that that it's inviolable that Bob's arguing about it.

He's the butler as long as he's here.

They'll shoot at him rather than the president.

They're going to shoot at the president.

They're going to continue to shoot at the president.

That's it.

But the point is, the business of this country is going to go forward.

He's got to be concerned about not getting his seat at all amended.

And then he's got to be concerned about getting it sold.

But then the minnows might say, well, I've been trying to get the president.

The minnows might say, well, I've been trying to get the president to leave this office of room.

Very much.

We have discussed this possibility ourselves.

I understand he does.

I have to think that we have to destroy him, but we're not.

I don't know what kind of attack, if I may.

Where do they very much, sir, that faces, where do they very much, sir, perjure that in any way, any way knows if he falls apart?

And the department, you know, I guess, he knows if he falls apart, and the department,

So you don't testify against him?

No, but I mean, he does.

Because undoubtedly, whether he is a given immunity, or whether he just is a day-to-day that wants to spill his guts,

If he lies, perjuries, he's saved from immunity in every one of these situations.

He wants to spill his guts.

If he lies, perjuries, he's saved from immunity in every one of these situations.

And he faces that situation.

And he faces that.

Now, going back to my recommendations about privacy,

I make a preface to this remark that I want you to be sure that you understand that I want you to be sure that you understand that we do suggest anything in common.

We are not mean to suggest anything in common.

You are, you are Peterson's boss.

That's right.

But not all you want to know is certain.

That's right.

That's right, right.

forward as best we can with uh recognizing recognizing that the the the the needs i mean that let's let me look at them

We are in the European community, a defense of NATO against the bad rights of communism.

But there are other things going on.

Later in the month, I've got a couple of days where I'm going to go to ISA and probably in June, probably in June, we'll have fresh air over here.

We'll keep it warm for some.

We'll have all our, we'll have all the rest of us warm.

So now the point that I'm making is such that for me to move forward with that, I didn't move forward with it, even though the country,

I mean, they're always gonna say that.

Now, it all comes to the public mind.

People.

Protection of individuals.

I've told you that.

Now, on the points I've made, I've made, I've made, I've made, I've made, I've made, I've made, I've made, I've made, I've made, I've made, I've made, I've made, I've made, I've made, I've made, I've made, I've made, I've made, I've made, I've made, I've made, I've made, I've made, I've made, I've made, I've made, I've made, I've made, I've made, I've made, I've made, I've made, I've made, I've made, I've made, I've made, I've made, I've made, I've made, I've made, I've made, I've made, I've made, I've made, I've made, I've made

Uh, getting it cut short two or three times a day for the next month.

It's a crazy month idea.

There's nothing in the world but skiing on their part to see the lobsters coming forward in line to let this volcano erupt.

Uh, two or three times a day for the next month to see the lobsters coming forward in line.

Now, third, and I don't want this to work.

Now, first, I want to look at...

I think you...

I got this in my notes.

I want to look at...

I think there would be no propriety in your asking, Ian.

Is Dean going to be indicted soon?

I know.

I know that.

I know.

I know that.

But I am questioning on Dean every day.

I am questioning on Dean every day.

I said, what the hell is your deal with these?

Well, we're still at our joint.

Still trying to make some.

I said, what the hell is your deal with these?

Well, we're still at our joint.

Still trying to make some.

Radio, what is it?

You see, he's got breakers close sometimes.

Well, you see, he's got breakers close sometimes.

And what is particularly interesting is that people who are afraid by the press, where people in a press, where people in a, a man who is being quoted, who is being quoted, he doesn't, they don't always direct testimony.

He doesn't, they don't always direct testimony.

And so many involvement, and many involvement

and involving others.

And this is what the press said as well.

The press said as well.

I understand.

We all understand.

There's no need to say we all understand.

It's not at the end, Dave.

Next week, next week, let the press say what they please and wait for them.

Let the press say what they please and wait for them.

Now, now, on the other hand, on the other hand, if you've come to the point where you, if you've come to the point where you've got to get rid of it, and if by that time you've got to get rid of it, then the bottom line is that you'll be

And if by that time, there have been developments that you feel is effective, then it's for Bob's and John's readiness.

It's for Bob's and John's readiness.

It's for you.

Take Adams, who was so close to Eisenhower, and got called on a stinking little thing.

I mean, not really bad documents.

He should have never been.

He should have been reprimanded.

So I'm interested in probably checking.

But Eisenhower, Eisenhower being the general that he was and one of the terrific heaths that he was from the Congress.

And me, George L. Adams, I'm going to be a very good citizen.

I'm going to be very vague.

And, God knows, I, and, God knows, I, I don't mean to, I don't mean to.

Because he's putting Bob and John in the same bad state.

Now, uh, because he's putting Bob and John in the same bad state.

Now, uh, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I,

Anyway, now I find this.

A year later, six months later, does anybody remember that Eisenhower, Adams, who was all in a hurry to throw it in one lap?

No.

They think it was sad.

But they realize that Eisenhower was trying to do his best to run the show.

See, that's the problem I've got here.

I've got to get out of this.

I haven't made a decision.

I'm not talking about that.

But I've got to wait.

I mean, if you were to get down to the line, I think your normal cabinet people are George Bush and all the guys, and Schultz and the rest, and say, Jesus Christ, I'm being fired.

I've never even heard of Watergate, to start with.

But I certainly, but I certainly think that if you did feel

If you didn't call for a resignation, call for a resignation or receive a resignation, which would be somewhat frightening and inspiring, it would be somewhat frightening and inspiring.

In the next few days, in the next few days, it would be very difficult to make

on the basis of true plausibility.

It's going to be very difficult to make on the basis of, come back to you and say, sir, what I think is our number one point here today with you, that if you keep them and they are indict,

you are handed the best reasons in the world to ask for their resignation.

True plausibility.

And I come back to you and say, sir, what I think is our number one point here today with you, that if you keep them and they are indicted, you are handed the best reasons in the world to ask for their resignations.

And

If you think well of it, you have our letter.

This gives you a public explanation of the fact that you do a public explanation of the fact in those that believe you were

Influenced and believed.

That's what they'd say.

Of course, I would never do that.

The other day, I had trouble with all the hard lines.

Hard as hell.

And rockets.

He's a tough shrew.

He's not necessarily a hardliner, but he's like you two.

He doesn't think of this crap about, you know, about the lawyers and what they got because they're proven.

Tying.

That's good.

Tying.

That's good.

That covers perhaps a little on the criminal side.

I think we have to realize some of the...

I will still be faced with the higher church.

Yes, you will.

There is no question about it.

Yes, you will.

There is no question about it.

Basically, you should not discuss this with Father John.

The higher church did say it.

It's a tough thing.

You should not discuss this with Bob and John.

The higher church gets it.

It's a tough thing.

The politics of good men.

The politics of good men leave who are truly innocent.

But they leave because the politics of good men.

The politics of good men leave who are truly innocent.

Basically, they're useless.

But they leave because it's impaired.

The difficulty is that the

So that has been dropped off today.

Their usefulness is impaired.

Now, the difficulty is that the old, which is perhaps more private, so that has been dropped off now compared to what will come in the means of the day.

There's fresh around, you see.

You've got to remember that.

That, which is fresh, indeed fresh.

You've got to run on to a lead wrap for that.

Then you've got the main traction on the problem's housing.

You've got to run on to a lead wrap for that.

Then you've got the problem's housing.

You've got to see which is the way out of your current approach.

I talked to Bryce Harlow, these are the guys who are total aces and liars, but also terrible, and love and respect John and Bob, but they say that the problem is how can you continue to run this simply, Leah?

whether or not, first, these men's ability to, frankly, represent, these men's ability to, frankly, represent the President, the work of the President, the confidence they have, the confidence they have, or this group of questions, and second, the work the confidence they have, whether the President says, well, the confidence they have, or this group of questions, and second, whether the President says, well,

That's what I do.

I know it is.

They all come down to the other side.

They're not there to make me wrong, but the fight is.

They look at it.

That's where it's at, and they're not looking at it from the other side.

They're not there to make me wrong, but the fight is.

They look at it.

That's where it's at, and they're not looking at it from the other side.

They, they, they, they, they, I don't know what I'm talking about.

They say, how long can you continue to run this?

without the occurrence that the president does not condone illegality.

The president, frankly, does accept and will defend what is the radness of not being on the counterfeiting side, whether or not their ability to function as assistants to the president is as sincere as it appears, regardless of how this comes out.

Even though the most innocent things, I guess they will be able to decide whether or not their ability to function as assistants to the President is sincerely impaired.

Regardless of how this comes up, we will retrieve them on weeks, this travels between months.

Always, you know, if they ever go to drugstore, over months.

The question will raise, does the President approve the Senate, even though the most innocent things, I guess they will be able to prove over a period of weeks, this travels between months.

It's always, you know, if they ever go to Russia, over months, every press conference, every press conference, every specific, because the President, because the President believes, they believe that the country has to be balanced.

The question will range, does the President approve this every press conference, every press session?

No, should it be used for anything specific?

Does the President, does the President agree that the leader must pay these defendants for humanitarian things?

First, you say, here's why I'm not going to comment on the case, too.

If you have a point, $20,000, should it be used for a group of people who must pay these defendants for humanitarian things?

You see the proof that you

They are.

They really are.

So I don't know.

What if trouble throws a leg at me and I want to...

I mean, we got that.

That's the way I have to face it.

I can't talk as much as I would like to.

As a lawyer, I can talk as much as I would like to.

I mean, we got that.

That's the way I have to face it.

I can't talk as much as I would like to.

As a lawyer, I can talk as much as I would like to.

I can throw that ball behind and beat that ball and so forth.

We have a different situation here.

Those are the things I have to weigh.

I dislike metaphors.

When they're dealing with serious...

But my reply to such...

But...

My reply to such important people and wise people as Kanye and Billy Rogers would be that when you annotate Rogers, would be that when you annotate

I want to do the right thing for them.

I've got to do the right thing for the country.

We cannot allow all hopes for peace abroad and some kind of security at home.

We go down because people lose confidence.

I tell you what, he's not a Bob and John, but a president.

The president has that around him.

The country thinks it's a lot of money.

They didn't do anything illegal without them.

I'm not going to say I'm starting out at $20,000 in the middle of the money.

So that's what you mean they didn't know that?

And I believe that.

I don't think the president knew that.

Sure, cutting them off doesn't mean that people aren't going to still think, well, perhaps the president just got rid of those guys because they got their hands off the cookie jar.

But you see what I mean?

It is a different order of thinking.

No, I.

First.

The vitals, the vitals are already and deserve to be sold.

This is a hell of a day and deserve to be sold.

This is a hell of a bad thing to do.

And the cover-up looks like a bad thing to do.

And a cover-up, which there was, there was a cover-up.

You know, Dan Welch was a cover-up.

There was, there was a cover-up.

You know, Dan Welch was a cover-up.

He wasn't a tenant, but a tenant.

But they, some of these, they, some of these clowns, clowns must not be talking, must not be talking because of this event, because of this event.

But nevertheless, we know that.

And people around, we've heard all that.

That's what we know that.

And people around were,

So we're the question is now so we're

The question is now, you've got three and a half cubes left in your presence.

You've got three and a half cubes left in your presence.

Sure, you amputate.

You don't get really angry.

But the point is, the pain is going to die.

And the argument is, the pain is going to die.

But the other point is,

The other fight is Bob and John, two of the most powerful men in the world.

Bob and John, two of the most powerful men in the world.

You see, we've got to face the facts as they are.

What I'm getting now is a question in my mind as to time.

That's keeping the presidency in mind and all the considerations that you have and also keeping the best interest of these.

Is it a week?

Is it two weeks?

Is it when the grand jury is active?

Is it before the grand jury is active?

I don't know.

There you are.

Now, there you are.

Now, and I don't mean by that, and I don't mean by that, it's inviolable with Bob's argument, but he's the butler as long as he's here.

He's the butler as long as he's here shooting him rather than the president.

They don't hear.

They don't shoot a camera that's present.

The point is, the business of this country is going to go forward.

And it's the country of the need to move forward as best we can.

Recognize it, recognize it, recognize it.

of the European community under Venezuela.

They go against the bad rights of communism.

I've done the whole project and I've mentioned very important decisions about the economy.

And there's a lot of odds and ends that you could imagine.

But there are things that we've got to do.

I am wrong coming into that group.

It's a very important decision regarding the European community under Venezuela.

They go against the bad rights of communism.

but there are things going on with it.

Later in the month, I've got a company where I'm going to go to Iceland, which is that fall, and probably in June, probably in June, we'll have fresh air.

But here's the problem.

Let's talk about that.

Let's talk about all the United States that are going to be supporting this.

Maybe you can share this with my team.

right away to be examined on any of these damn things.

And this damn grand jury getting his business done is leaving all over the place and destroying the reputation of the Department of Justice.

And he better get it wrapped up or he's gonna get himself screwed up worse and worse and worse.

And maybe we can escape.

Sorry, I won't do all that right now.

Thank you.

I mean, they're always going to say that.

Not that it will be seen in the public mind.

People take ads who are so close to eyes and heart.

People .

I mean, not really bad documents.

Should never have been reprimanded.

Slacking the rest of it, probably checked.

But Eisenhower, Eisenhower gave the general check.

Eisenhower wasn't one of the terrific heath that he was from the Congress.

Eisenhower gave the general that he wasn't one of the terrific heath that he was from the Congress.

And we go tell others.

And we

He can't break the event, believe in this race.

They're suspended.

You know what I mean?

June said that, and I am.

They're suspended.

I apologize.

But forget that.

And anyway, now my point is, a year later, six months later, and anyway, now my point is, a year later, does anybody remember that Eisenhower, Adams, who was six months later, does anybody remember that?

No.

They think it was sad, but they realize that Eisenhower was trying to do his best to run the show.

See, that's the problem.

No, they think it was sad, but they realize that Eisenhower was trying to do his best to run the show.

See, that's the problem.

I don't know.

It's colored by what the press is doing.

I don't know.

It's colored.

Maybe it's much less or higher than it has on that newscast.

I don't know.

Okay.

God, I mean, I, if you were to get, and I haven't talked to the salt liners, get down to the line, if you're in our whole cabinet, people who are, George Bush and all the guys, to God, I mean, I, if you were to get down to the line, if you're in the graveyard, show us the rest of it, say, Jesus Christ, I mean, fire our whole cabinet, people who are, George Bush and all the guys, if it was ever even heard of Watergate, to start with, it didn't seem a graveyard.

I mean, if they move now, I mean, I don't mean this like today or tomorrow, I mean, I don't know if they move today or next week or, I don't know, we just gotta talk about that.

But if they do,

But I don't think we would say no to the business.

The business must go ahead.

All these malicious charges, and lies, and slanders, and so forth, those are going to be.

We can resign.

We've asked the president to move forward.

We're going to fight this case.

We're going to prove our innocence.

Now, if they go out that way, I'm thinking about if they go out that way, that to me is a hell of a lot better than having to go out.

Presidents, aides, and kind of, I don't know, maybe I'm wrong about that.

Well, they would have got ill, but I think the point would have gone to the other nation as if it were.

Well, the other point is, now let's look at it from the president's standpoint.

Is it better for the president to find that his men should leave, or is it better for him to have the grand jury?

Well, but they would be for different reasons.

You would not have that meeting because of that criminality.

Exactly.

The indictment would be a charge of criminality.

And you would be in the, shall I call it, ambiguous position of the public.

What motivated this?

Was it guilt, or was it the functioning of the presidency?

Yeah.

Wait a minute.

You mean we did it now?

Yes.

I would certainly do it.

Now, as I say, when it comes to these political considerations, I don't pretend to be a Tom Connolly or a Bill Rogers.

But I think that we left out a factor in the equation.

That is the timing and the treatment of Dean.

He is a self-confessed crook, you might say, if I can be very extravagant.

Are you going to let him resign as if it's voluntary?

Are you going to discharge him?

One player says what they'd say.

The other player says what they'd say.

It's true, he's not necessarily a hard hiker.

He's hard as hell.

If you discharge him, you build up a whole new front of attacks, of enmity.

If you let him resign, you let him resign in a kind of a plateau of his own voice.

And they're not, they shouldn't be targeted, Dean.

You're not targeting them.

I mean, the circumstances would target them.

So, so that would argue for what?

For letting him run its course?

I would, I would press the hell out of Peterson's foot.

for immediate action as far as some things are concerned, and then let it run its course.

This is none of my business, but you don't mind my saying, and I wouldn't say that you don't get rid of, you get rid of a sinner even if you're discommoding yourself, but won't you have tremendous administrative problems?

Functioning, uh, funny.

Uh, I talked to, uh, Bryce Harlow.

Uh, I talked to, uh, Bryce Harlow, guys who are total ex-boyfriends.

But they say that the problem is how can you continue to run this thing?

They say how can you continue to run this thing?

leaving out whether or not they get off without an indictment.

They say, how can you continue to run this thing without the occurrence that the president does not condone illegality because of that?

Without the occurrence that the president does not condone illegality because of that?

The president, frankly, does accept that will to defend.

You see, the proof that you are

They really are.

They are indeed.

So I don't know.

What kind of trouble throws something at me, and I want to get that.

And I think Bob and John are worth it.

They are.

They really are.

I want to do the right thing for them.

I've got to do the right thing for the country.

We cannot allow all hopes for peace abroad and some kind of security.

So I don't know what I'm going to do.

When trouble throws something at me and I want to do the right thing for them, I've got to do the right thing.

We go down because people lose confidence in the country.

We cannot allow all hopes for peace abroad and some kind of security at home.

We go down because people lose confidence in the country.

Not replacements, but substitutes.

Sure, it'd be hard.

It'd be hard any time.

It could be done.

I mean, he didn't have an equal skill, but not an equal knowledge.

I know, but they, let's face it, we have to face that possibility.

They could die, but they're expensive.

They've always been.

And these men have built themselves.

I mean, no, no, I don't know.

I didn't have an enormous problem replacing Christopher, but I could.

And so I've always figured nobody could be considered inexpensive.

No, they can't.

But let's put it this way.

The administrative problems I would have in the place that he spent are like that compared to the problem I used to have in the place he had.

Administrative?

He ran the White House.

What was that stuff?

He was more powerful than Bob and John, the president.

The president has that around him.

The country thinks that this guy, the president, has that around him.

The country thinks that, you know, I kind of did it, didn't I?

You know, I kind of did it, didn't I?

He'll leave it with Bob, and I want to help assess.

Bob is powerful, and John is powerful, and history is.

He had us.

I could not have ran on the chief of staff basis.

And I run on the basis of several chiefs.

History is just that very...

Paul was chief of staff for scheduling, personnel, and all the other things.

He's a fantastic man.

Yesterday he was chief of staff for foreign policy.

Earlier he was chief of staff for economic policy, right?

You see, Eisenhower, he called it Adams.

You know how young a general is.

Adams basically was his...

You know, uh, Deputy, uh, whatever they call him, the, the, uh, the, uh, the guy, in other words, he calls it an ad, it's a bill of justice, you know what I mean?

You know what I mean?

Sure.

Cutting them off doesn't mean that people aren't going to still think well.

The president is just getting rid of those guys.

He's going to lay down with their hands on the cookie.

He's going to lay down with their hands on the cookie jar.

Do you see what I mean?

Yes, I do.

No, I do.

We must, we must, we must face the facts as they are.

What I'm getting now is a question, now is a question in my mind as to time.

In my mind, that's keeping the president as to time.

That's keeping the presidency in mind, and then all the considerations that you have, and also keeping the just interest of these.

All the considerations that you have, and also keeping the just interest of these.

Is it a week?

Is it two weeks?

Is it when the grand jury is active?

Is it before the grand jury is active?

I don't know.

The grand jury is active.

I don't know.

Here's the problem.

Let's talk about time.

Let's talk about .

I told the vice president what the hell it is.

Yeah, I'll tell you a little story about my connection with Adams.

In 55, when he was still there, you may remember that Roland Hughes was in trouble.

The chief of them was after him.

More suggestively, he committed perjury up on the hill.

Dixon Yates and all that sort of thing.

Oh, yeah, Dixon Yates.

Well, Jerry Morgan asked me,

to accept an appointment from Roland Hughes and advising.

And all that summer, 55, I must have been over here three days a week.

And Adams was still there.

And we were going to Brownell and Beaton and Adams and the whole Jerry Parsons thing.

Yeah.

And I was immensely impressed with that.

I thought no man could have a more loyal man around than that.

Totally loyal.

Totally selfish.

Cool.

I had the greatest admiration for him.

The greatest admiration.

But let me point out something else that you have at least.

You've got that Congress over there.

What is it?

I'm not speaking to her.

And he better get it wrapped up, or he's going to get himself screwed up worse and worse and worse.

I don't know what that is.

Strasburg is coalescing all the Republicans and they call on Eisenhower to get rid of him or else.

The personal entities have been to the same statement.

That's right.

That's part of it.

But also the personal entities have also been all the way to the White House and the Congress is there.

He just shares health and stuff around.

The Republicans want to get out.

I can see right now my desk with the next person.

Weather, basically.

These men, these, aren't they?

The chance to break these men, aren't they?

The chance to break these men.

The Republican caucus called in one person to clean this house of pennies and pillow.

There is the problem.

We've got to face this problem.

We can't argue.

We're not in a position to plead.

This race.

or whether or whether

Recognizing that the risk of advice from John's case may be 25% of the risk.

Recognizing that the risk of advice from John's case may be 25% of the risk of Bob's case may be 60%.

Bob's case may be 60%.

Maybe it's less, maybe it's more.

I don't know what the test is doing.

I don't see how I can just be a witness to you.

I don't see how you can just be a witness.

I agree with your points, though.

Your points are brilliantly made with regard to my resignation.

But there's no good answer.

What's that then?

What's that?

Second, putting them, having them resign isn't going to cure them.

It's not going to take out the anger, and I realize that.

But you've got to do something.

You've got to do something.

You cannot have the president to operate if there is a constant nagging business.

What about all of it?

What about early?

I mean, if they go down, I mean, I don't need this.

Like, okay, all right.

Thank you.

Now, if they go out... Now, if they go out for, you know, this cracker coming up, for a month, you know, that's a great... Mitchell's trial is going to take a hell of a long time.

There's a time.

Oh, of course there will.

It's already well.

I have all the nerves in there.

I didn't hear a terrible listen.

unindicted co-conspirators.

Well, and they don't have a forum, you know, for a defense, except to hand out to the press.

I mean, if I had to take a choice between being indicted and being named as a co-conspirator, it would be a hard choice to make.

That's right.

But you certainly at least have a tip.

When you talk to the telephone manager, do you want to turn that up?

that way, that to me, that way I'm thinking about, if they go out that way, it's a hell of a lot better than they're having to go out.

President, that to me, is a hell of a lot better than they're having to go out.

President's day is a night, I don't know.

Maybe I'm wrong about that.

Well, I never would have got out.

I think the point was with God, right?

Not in those words because we weren't sure yesterday afternoon.

His opening remarks were that, well, what are you doing here?

I told you we would contact you.

He has this in his mind, and when it's convenient, his schedule, he has to call us to bring him there.

But that wouldn't prevent us.

No.

They find him.

Well, the other point is, now let's look at it from the person's standpoint.

The other point is, now let's look at it from the person's standpoint.

Is it better for the president to find that his men should leave, or is it better for him to have the grand jury?

But they would be for different reasons.

You would not have that legion because of their criminality.

The indictment would be a charge of criminality.

And you would be in charge of criminality.

And you would be in the...

until I call my ambiguous position to the public, until I call my ambiguous position to the public, that what motivated this?

Was it guilt or was it the functioning of the presidency?

What motivated this?

Was it guilt or was it, was it the functioning of the presidency?

Yeah, it was, you know, earlier.

Now, whether they were taken or not, I don't know, but we, we're not, we're not committed to waiting.

I had thought the other night, you know, so that, that waiting was, I don't like to precipitate anything in a criminal case.

You never know what happens.

But I, I must say that, that right now, the situation calls for some affirmative action.

This week, we're all sitting ducks right now.

That's right.

One thing, too, is the discussion, of course, is that they didn't mean that until this is over.

But I just think that's a... You mean if we did it now?

Yes, yes.

Your advice, if we did it now?

Yes, yes.

Just wait a minute.

I would sort of do it.

Your advice, then, is to wait a minute or not.

I would certainly do it.

Now, I have to say, when it comes to these political considerations, I don't pretend to be a Tom Connolly or a Bill Rogers, but I think that we left out a factor in the hand maker, which

which you could then have, don't you?

Or how do you want to do it?

I'm afraid that there isn't a whole lot of difference between having reservations.

So you may as well have one.

Or once a girl, you and I have a match on the interviewer.

Yeah, I would, of course, I'm not the kind of guy who would try to soften the blow.

And I could exclude things.

Well, that would mean that she would take Steve Maddison.

the timing and the treatment of Dean.

He is a self-confessed crook.

You might say if I could be very extravagant.

Are you going to let him resign?

Are you going to let him resign as if it's voluntary?

Are you going to discharge him?

If you discharge him, you'll have a hold in front of attacks of entity.

If you discharge him, you'll have a hold in front of

of attacks, of enmity.

If you let him resign, you let him resign, you let him resign in a kind of a plateau of his own voice.

And they're not, they shouldn't be tarred indeed.

In a kind of a plateau of his own voice.

And they're not, they shouldn't be tarred indeed.

You're not tarred, though, I mean, you're not tarred, though, I mean, the circumstance would tarred.

The circumstance would tarred.

Are they still

So, so that would argue for, so, so that would argue for one for letting it run its course.

I didn't talk, I didn't press the hell out of the townspeople.

One for letting it run its course.

I didn't talk, I didn't press the hell out of the townspeople.

Peeps for, for immediate action as far as the peeps were concerned.

for immediate action as far as some things are concerned, and then let it run its course.

Some things are concerned, and then let it run its course.

This is none of my business.

But you don't mind if I say, and I wouldn't say mind if I say, if you don't get rid of it,

And I wouldn't say that you should get rid of a sinner even if you're discommoding yourself.

Discommoding yourself.

But won't you have tremendous administrative problems?

Functioning problems.

Functioning...

funny, funny, funny.

Good man.

He doesn't give any judgments.

Just take it like the legal stuff.

Like a cannon fire.

And, uh, God damn it, I can't find any money to go stand with this.

That's why I need substitutes for these, uh, not replacements for substitutes.

Substitutes for these, uh, not replacements for substitutes.

Sure we are.

Doesn't matter any time.

It can be done.

I mean... Sure we are.

Doesn't matter any time.

It could be done.

I mean, if you get that at equal skill, but not at equal knowledge.

I don't, but they...

I mean, if you get that at equal skill, but not at equal knowledge.

I don't, but they... Let's face it, we have to face that possibility.

They could die, but... Let's face it, we have to face that possibility.

They could die, but...

They're going to always face it.

They're going to always face the problem.

If your supporters will not stand with you,

See, it's quite different.

Let me give you a couple of analogies which they agree to.

They say, well, what about that one thing, and so forth.

Well, I mean, there are two great differences.

First of all, these men have built themselves.

I mean, no, no, I know.

These men have built themselves.

I mean, no, no, I know.

I would have an enormous problem replacing this here.

That's what I've always figured.

Nobody can be considered inexpensive.

No, they can't.

Let's put it this way.

The administrative problem should have been expensive.

No, they can't do that.

But let's put it this way.

The administrative problems that we have with the place you need to spend are like that compared to the problem Isingham had with the place you need to spend are like that compared to the problem Isingham had with the place you need to spend.

And that's good?

And he ran the wilds.

And he was more powerful than God.

He was more powerful than God.

And that's, you see, an option these guys don't have.

If they think they can save themselves, I've got to, you know what I mean?

I've got to keep the arm around them.

You know, they're the first in this, because they can't want to make a speech.

The second thing is to regard it as one thing.

There are a whole lot of people wanting to own the ticket, but the whole town went to the party.

I remember Bob Taft sent me a wire to stick it out.

They were for me.

So in other words, I had a body of support.

Yes, you did.

That was the point.

And I won.

Yeah.

I mean, I won, basically.

And the only reason I kept me was not because he had any love or affection for me, although he was very nice about it.

But the nature, he said, he kept me was the public support that I was able to generate through those things.

You look at the decisions, the very talk that we made on Cambodia and on May, December 18, the bombing, and I was pretty much alone, I must say, except for out in that country.

And within my own job, there were a few, at least.

And quite a few said, well, by God, we have confidence in the president.

They said, Bob is powerful and John is powerful in history.

They said, I was powerful and John was powerful in history.

They said, I ran on the chief of staff basis.

And I ran on the chief of staff basis.

And I ran on the basis of several chiefs of staff.

or on the basis of .

Your problem we've got to face here is that there's just a question of confidence on this .

It isn't just the President's family.

It's our own people who have done it.

Yes.

I mean, when he pops off, and McGregor pops off, and so forth, don't you see my point?

Yes.

And there is the thing we've got to face very, very hard.

We've really come to that expression over the history of America, and that is the President is alone in the final decision.

Yes, that's true.

The President has to do something.

I know there are arguments there.

Arguments are going to be for themselves, as they should be, and then we would be for scheduling, personnel, and all the other intricate things.

And he's a fantastic man.

And then, yes, he was chief of staff for scheduling, personnel, and all the other intricate things.

And he's a fantastic man.

And then, yes, he was chief of staff for foreign policy.

Or he was chief of staff for economic policy, right?

But you see, I have an argument.

He called it anti-border policy.

Early on, he used that for economic policy, right?

But you see, Eisenhower, he called it anti-border policy.

I've got to make the argument that you make it better because they don't make it.

With regard to the five points that were predicted, with regard to the fact, well, cut off the leg, again, hearing the still later truth,

But it's there, but my hope, my understanding is that it's, you know, how young a general is, and his adage basically was his, you know, how young a general is, and his adage basically was his, uh, you know, uh, deputy, uh, you know, uh, deputy, uh, whatever they call him, the, uh, the, uh, whatever they call him, the, uh, the, uh, the guy, uh,

In other words, he called out, and said, and said, the guy, in other words, he called out, and said, and said, go jump, jump, jump, jump.

Addison, go tell me.

I told him.

Addison told the vice president what the hell it is.

I told him.

Addison told the vice president what the hell it is.

Yeah, I'm so sorry about that.

I can explain it.

I'm so sorry about this.

In 55, Michael X. Adams, in 55, when he was still there, when he was still there, you may remember the present time.

We may be based on this fact that the conduct of the presidency requires that thought that way.

And then doing the very best we can to get a good artificial one.

I hope that it will be.

That, uh, Roland Hughes was in trouble.

The key follow was after him.

Dixon Yates and all that sort of thing.

Well, Jerry Morgan asked me.

I thought your answer to me was pretty good.

The problem is whether the patient dies or not.

I think that's a pretty good retort to my metaphor.

And we don't want that to happen.

Thank you, sir.

Well, I appreciate it.

to accept an appointment from to accept an appointment from Roman Hughes and advising and all that Roman Hughes and advising and all that summer 55 I must have been over here 55 I must have been over here three days a week and Adams was still there and we were around here three days a week

And Adams was still there, and we were going to grab him.

I see.

God knows who you're... Tell me this one, John.

What about that bizarre incident, that furnishing those damn papers to Pat Gray and all that sort of thing?

Nothing important about that.

I'll get something great over the horses.

No man could have a more loyal man around, more loyal man around.

He was totally loyal, totally solid.

Cool.

I had the greatest ever.

Cool.

I had the greatest ever.

Yes, yes.

I don't think this will be a new invention, sir.

I think it was one of a kind.

Yes, it is.

Can you reveal a little bit of the timing on that?

Apparently, Dean was a week holding the papers.

Yes.

A week, nearly a week.

Six days.

But when the FBI was brought in, they were given most everything.

And John did not know that anything was being held back.

It was before that day was over.

It was six or seven o'clock that night.

that Dean insisted that the grave be sent for over there.

And John said that they, the three sat down, and immediately in the last four minutes, Dean Haley went unbroken, big unbroken.

It's a big unbroken.

Well, John said they didn't describe it.

Somebody says they were sensitive to national security problems, question.

Of course, that and this remark of John, that John said he didn't make about it, to get hot out of the country, and deep-six the state.

This is spitting on the sidewalks case.

Now, the point of view of publicity and newspapers, yes, it is.

But the point of view of criminal law, it doesn't understand.

It's a great...

They're going to be, they're going to be, they're going to be, they're going to be,

That's right.

I can see right now my desk within a week.

The Republican caucus called it a week.

The clock is calling.

Declaim this house of Mary St. John.

There is a problem.

We, we gotta face this.

We can't, we can't.

There is a problem.

We can't argue.

We're not in a position.

We gotta face this.

We can't, we can't argue.

We're not in a position to argue against that.

Nor are we disposed to do it.

If you please, because it's against that.

Nor are we disposed to do it.

If you please, because it's against that.

Resonation.

What is the expression that it isn't?

Most people say money is the root of all evil, but it's a lot of money, isn't it?

No, I don't.

I would... No, no, I wouldn't do that.

Just these two street things.

And, uh...

I, uh, I, uh, I'm urging you, uh, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to,

You cannot have.

I feel confident about this without in any way being open to the criticism that you're causing.

But this man is a dangerous man to me.

And I think if he's your friend, he's only your friend because he's got a tail in his back.

You know, this crap will come out.

Vermont, you know, that's the thing.

Mitchell's trials, you know, this crap will come out.

Vermont, you know, that's the thing.

Mitchell's trial is going to take a hell of a long time.

Yeah.

It's going to take a hell of a long time.

Yeah.

It's going to take a hell of a long time.

Of course it will.

It's already been.

Of course it will.

It's already been.

All the earlier ones are ignited.

The earlier ones are ignited.

Pyramid.

Parabolism.

Unindicted co-conspirators.

Parabolism.

Unindicted co-conspirators.

Parabolism.

handouts to a foreign tracker, you know, for a defense, except to handouts to the tracks by this.

I mean, if I hadn't taken a choice between being indicted and being, I mean, if I hadn't taken a choice between being indicted and being named as a cop, I'm afraid he's your enemy on that account.

I don't trust the inspector.

I told you so the other night.

And, uh, just tell us the crack, because he basically cooperated with me in the cover of the piece.

Yes, I'm joking.

And I don't know whether we talked about this or not, Mitchell goes out against Hundley and his lawyer.

Who?

I met the lawyer named Hundley who was in the department.

He's the man that I told you we had experience where Peterson spilled our whole conversation to his buddy Hundley on the golf course.

Now, it's fair to be a hard choice to make.

What the, what do you, what the, what do you, your son at least had a tip, your son at least had a tip.

When you, when you talk to, uh, when you, when you talk to, uh, would you tell him, would you tell him, I'm sure he wanted your man up there.

I'm sure he wanted your man up there.

Uh, uh, not in those words because, uh, not in those words because, uh, uh,

We weren't sure yesterday afternoon.

His opening remarks were here.

What are you doing here?

Mitchell knows how close these two men are.

That's the reason he hired you.

He could have, but let's see, let's see whether this time Peterson is going to lean over backwards, where Huntley's concerned, or whether he's going to be friendly to Huntley.

This is, this is an unholy alliance between Huntley and, uh, and Christian.

That's a problem.

Thank you all for your service.

I'm going to say this.

I'm going to say Christian, you're going to be served by crime if you compare it to Paul from earlier.

And Colson, I guess, put the pressure on him.

I told you we would contact you.

He has this in his mind.

It's convenient.

He has to call us to bring him in.

No.

Bumps.

No.

Bumps.

Bumps are private.

And, uh, well, you know, I, I don't know, uh, I mean, I, I have a way of minding, minding everybody's business, and I hope you'll forget it, but, uh, I had a question on it earlier.

Now, whether they were taking it or not, I just, you know, earlier.

Now, whether they were taking it or not, I don't know, but we, I don't know, but we...

We're not, we're not, we're not committed to wait.

I, I am committed to wait.

I thought, I had thought the other night, the other night, you know, so that, that waiting was, you know, so that, that waiting was, I don't like to precipitate any, I don't like to precipitate any impression from the press.

Colson was a pretty good guy.

But having read the paperwork these boys had given us, I think he was in a lot of this stuff.

What did he do?

And do you know, and this is not a question of jealousy, that Coulson recommended to John Erickson that he hire Coulson's partner as his lawyer?

Now, this is a...

Yes.

Now, we talked the other day, did we make a mistake in representing both of them?

Did we tie them in the same stick?

Uh, young Larry Higley had a conversation with me yesterday morning with the, uh, somewhere, I don't know where it was, and he came in and said, you never know what happens, y'all.

But I, uh, you never know what happens.

I must say that, uh, that, uh, right now, the situation calls for, that, uh, right now, the situation calls for some, some affirmative action.

This is this.

This week we're actually.

This is this.

This week we're all sitting ducks right now.

Sitting ducks right now.

That's right.

Being a bit shallow.

One thing or two.

That's right.

Being a bit shallow.

One thing or two.

That's right.

Until this is over, it's over.

But I just think that's a hat.

But I just think that's a hat, Major.

Which could that have, don't you?

How do you want me to know?

Which could that have, don't you?

How do you want me to know?

I'm afraid that there isn't a whole lot of difference between me and Adam and Rosie.

I would put conflicts, and I found no conflicts.

I found them.

Yeah, I would, uh... Yeah, I would, uh... Of course, I'm not the kind of guy who would try to... Of course, I'm not the kind of guy who would try to solve the problem.

And, uh... And, uh...

It's new things.

Are they still?

I guess I feel that Dean is probably out there more than all of them.

I don't know.

Dean's a desperate man.

He is, he's, he's, he's a very desperate man, and, uh, you're, unfortunately, you've worked with the, you've worked with the Congress of the West and so forth, and I can't believe that the men present there could be always under attack from somebody in some place.

I've got to use Congress of the West and so forth, and I can't believe that the men present there could be always under attack from somebody in some place.

You see, there is a problem, and I see there is a problem, and I've got this.

I know you do, but you've got to think about it with me, and we've got to be quite honest with each other.

I've got this, and they must not do this.

I know you do, but you've got to think about it with me, and we've got to be quite honest with each other.

I've got this, and they must not do this.

You see, the thing is...

At the press of time, I can't find it.

I've only chosen the hard liners.

I mean, if you can, liners.

I mean, unless you can, unless you can't.

I'm a good man.

I guess I am in a fairly good position.

When he did tell the President about the fact that Han wanted more money, the President

said this agreed with the conversation this is blackmail and if i got that's when i started my investigation well this was in march i mean this was way after the fact and everything else on it oh god yeah sure sure in other words he was he was not not a current fact

Oh, no, no, no.

Oh, really?

Well, sir, I bet you should not have said this to him.

That's right.

And they went up and over him, and they told Paul, no, sir, no, sir, probably not.

If your supporters, probably not.

If your supporters will not stand with you, will not stand with you.

See, see, it's quite different.

It's quite different.

Let me give you, let me give you a couple of them.

He made a cut.

What does that taste to you?

He didn't mention to me as to what I should do.

It wasn't that, but he said he told me, informed me, that Bittman had talked to Brian, the counsel for the attorney, and said that they needed an update.

Eisenhower didn't say me.

He said, you need to go say your son.

And I said, you need to go say your son.

And I did something.

They think they can save themselves.

I've got to, you know what I mean?

They're the first in this because they can't want to make a speech.

The second thing is regarding the funding.

There were a hell of a lot of people wanting to help them dig it.

But the whole town went to the farm.

The second thing is to regard it as one thing.

There were a hell of a lot of people wanting to help them dig it.

But the whole town.

I remember Bob Cass sent me a wire to stick it out.

He heard it over the day at a park summer field.

They were working.

So I had a body to support me when I went to the farm.

I remember Bob Cass sent me a wire to stick it out.

But you said right away

No fun.

We all discussed it.

We discussed it as a matter of fact.

I think all of us here are at least part of the conversation.

But I said, well, what the hell?

I had a discussion with the parts of the police pretty well.

I said, first of all, how can you do that?

It's blackmail.

That was the point that we made.

That was the point.

And he agreed.

And I won.

They said the only reason I started kept me was not because he had any love or affection for me, although he was very nice about it, but the nature of the reason he kept me was that the public supported that I did what I did.

You look at the decision, it's the very top one we made on Cambodia, I don't know.

May 8th, September 18th, the bombing, and I was pretty much alone, I must say.

Except for without that country.

And with it, without my own job, there were a few of them.

And for the end of my own job, there were a few, at least.

And coined a few, who said, well, by God, we have confidence in the president.

Thank you.

Well, by God, we have confidence in the president.

I said, well, suppose, I said, where does it end?

I said, what would it cost to be able to continue to pay the dependents, you know, for four years?

And he said, about a million dollars.

And so I started wondering.

And I said, well, I guess you should get a million dollars.

The problem we've got to face here is that there's just a hell of a question of confidence on this point of view.

There's just a hell of a question of confidence.

It isn't just the process on this point of view.

It's our own people who are coming.

Yes.

I mean, boy, it pops off.

It's just the presence coming.

It's our own people who are coming.

Yes.

I mean, boy, it pops off.

And the greater pops off, and so forth.

Don't you see my point?

Yes.

Don't you see my point?

Yes.

And there is the thing.

And we've got to face it very, very hard.

There is the thing.

We've got to face it.

We really come to that to face it.

We really come to the left over the history of America, and that is the expression over the history of America, and that is the president is alone in the final decision.

The president has to do something.

I know that argument's there.

Arguments are going to be for themselves.

It should be very difficult to hear them either present or present.

And I don't know what I'm going to do in this.

I must sit down.

I know that argument's there.

Arguments may be arguments that do make very good, but they don't make it.

With regard to the defilements that were taken, with regard to the backwoods,

Cut off the leg, the gang's going to be for themselves as they should be, and they'll be for the president and the president, and I've got to make the argument that you make, very because they don't make it.

With regard to the defilements that were predicted, with regard to the back weldings, cut off the leg, the gang hearing is still very true.

But it's there, but my whole point is the hearing is still very true.

But it's there.

But my whole point is, maybe in the present time we've got it.

Maybe in the present time we've got it.

We may engage with this fact that, we may engage with this fact that, that the conduct of the president of the presidency, that the conduct requires having on that leg.

And how that would manipulate the president as we can in the presidency, requires having on that leg with our officials.

I hope that it builds, and that it builds the very best we can to get a good artificial one.

I hope that it builds fast back.

You understand?

I thought your answer to me was... You understand?

I thought your answer to me was pretty good.

The problem is whether the patient dies pretty good or not.

I think that the problem is whether the patient dies or not.

I think that's a pretty good retort to my metaphor.

That's a pretty good retort to my metaphor.

And we don't want that to happen.

We don't want that to happen.

Thank you, sir.

Well, I appreciate your advice.

God knows who you're... Tell me this one, John.

What about that bizarre incident that I saw?

God knows who your... has told me this one, John, earlier.

What about that bizarre incident of that... furnishing those damn papers to Pat Gray and all that sort of thing?

Nothin'.

Furnishing those damn papers to Pat Gray and all that sort of thing?

Nothin' to work about that, yeah, yeah.

Uh, well, did something make Gray look like a horse to work about that, yeah, yeah?

Uh, well, did something make Gray look like a horse to assassinate?

Yes, uh...

I'm quite confused.

Yes, uh...

I don't think this will do it.

uh apparently dean was a week holding the paper

Uh, apparently, Dean was a week holding the papers.

He held the week.

Six days.

But!

When... Six days.

But!

When the, when the FBI was brought in, when the FBI was brought in, they were given most everything.

And, and John did not know they were given most everything.

Everything was being held back.

Everything.

And John did not know that anything was being held back.

It was before that day was over.

It was 6 or 7 o'clock that night that Dean insisted the grave be sent for over there.

Dean insisted the grave be sent for over there.

And

Uh, somebody says...

Somebody says they were sensitive to national security problems.

Of course, I had that and this remark of John.

John said he didn't make about to get hot out of the country.

And Deep Six said he didn't make about to get hot out of the country.

This is spitting on the sidewalks case problems.

Now, on the point of view of publicity and newspapers, yes.

Now, on the point of view of publicity and newspapers, yes, it is wrong.

But on the point of view of criminal law, it is wrong.

But on the point of view of criminal law, it does not have a bad sign.

You know that?

It does not have a bad sign.

You know that?

It does not have a bad sign.

Boiled down to that fallible face and all the money.

All the money.

What is the expression if it isn't?

Most people say money is... What is the expression if it isn't?

Most people say money is the root of all evil, but it's another funny dude.

He's a fraud.

He's the root of all evil, but it's another funny dude.

You don't know what's going to happen to Scott, but he's going to die.

He's a fraud.

You don't know what's going to happen to Scott, but he's going to die.

No, I don't.

I would die.

No, I don't.

I would die.

No, I don't.

I would die.

I'm not asking Peter Schumann goes on with her injury.

I figured I'd...

I can't...

I'm not asking Peter Schumann goes on with her injury.

I figured I'd... No, no, I wouldn't do that.

Just these two-street things.

No, no, I wouldn't do that.

Just these two-street things.

Oh, I'm not asking for that.

And, uh...

I, uh... And, uh...

I am urging you to...

I feel confident about this.

Without in any way being open to the criticism that you're coercing.

But this man is a dangerous man to me.

He's a dangerous man to me.

And I think if he...

I don't trust Venus.

He's your enemy on that account.

I don't trust Venus.

I told you so the other night.

And his tail is a crack because he... And his tail is a crack because he basically cooperated with me in the cover-up.

Excuse me.

basically cooperated with me in the government because he was on a jury.

And, and, and, uh, I, uh, I don't know what... And, and, and, uh, I, uh, we talked about this other night.

Mitchell goes out against Huntley.

I don't know what we talked about this other night.

Mitchell goes out against Huntley and his lawyer.

Who?

That lawyer named Huntley who was in the department.

He's the man that I told you we had...

That is his lawyer.

Who?

That lawyer named Huntley who was in the department.

He's the man that I told you we had experience.

We had experience.

Where Peterson, spilled Peterson, spilled our book, our book, conversation to his buddy Huntley.

That's the reason he hired him.

He could have...

But, uh, uh, let's see whether this time Peterson is going to lean over backwards where Hundy's concerned.

Let's see whether this time Peterson is going to lean over backwards.

Let's see whether he's going to be friendly to Hundy.

This is where Hundy's concerned.

Let's see whether he's going to be friendly to Hundy.

This is a holy alliance between Hundy and, uh... Holy alliance between Hundy and, uh...

Well,

You know, I, I don't know, uh, I mean, I... Well... You know, I, I don't know, uh, I mean, I, I have a way of minding, minding everybody's business, and I hope you'll forget it, boy.

I have a way of minding, minding everybody's business, and I hope you'll forget it.

Uh, I had, boy, uh, I had an impression from the press, from the press, that Colson was afraid to die.

Colson was afraid to die.

But haven't the men done the paperwork for these boys to give us?

I think he was going to want to end the love of this stuff.

What would he do?

I think he knows, and this is not a pretext of jealousy, but he was going to want to end the love of this stuff.

That's what he would do.

And Colby, you know, and this is not a pretext of jealousy, but Colson recommended to John

Now this is a... Now this is a...

Yes.

Now, uh, we talked the other day prior to this.

Yes.

Now, we talked the other day, did we make a mistake in representing both of them?

Did we tie them together?

Did we make a mistake in representing both of them?

Did we tie them to the same stick?

And he came in and recited it.

I was somewhere around where it was.

And he came in and recited it to the four of us sitting in John's room.

And, uh, Dee had said, uh, it was a mistake to get the same four of us sitting in John's room.

And, uh, Dee had said, uh, it was a mistake to do it the same way.

It's collusion.

That's collusion.

Christ.

Uh, uh, uh.

That's the last thing that, the last thing that exists here is collusion, exists here.

I, collusion.

I look for conflicts, I look for conflicts, and I found no, I found no con, conflicts.

I found, uh, conflicts.

I found, uh, different paths to, to the two, different paths to, to the two problems.

What's that?

I guess, I guess I feel that Dean is probably out of the area with more of the problems.

What's that?

Yes, I guess I do.

The Dean is probably out here in the North Pole.

I don't know.

The Dean's a desperate man.

I don't know.

The Dean's a desperate man.

He is.

He's a very desperate man.

He is.

He's a very desperate man.

Thank you.

In fact, he told the president as well as I guess I had a fairly, fairly good position when he did tell the president about the fact that the position when he did tell the president about the fact that the president said this agreed with the conversation.

I agree with the conversation.

This is blackmail, and it's blackmail, and that's why I started my investigation.

And what this was in with Mark, I mean, this was way after the fact.

That's why I started my investigation.

And what this was in with Mark, everything else on it.

Oh, God, yeah.

Sure.

I mean, this was way after the fact.

He was in everything else on it.

Oh, God.

He was in production.

Sure.

But I'm missing, not a current fact.

Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

I will serve, I will serve.

Then he went up and told Erwin, he told Paul, I will serve, I will serve.

He made a current presentation to you.

He didn't mention to me as to what I should do.

He didn't mention to me as to, wasn't that what I should do?

But he said, he told me, informed me that Bittman had talked to

Brian said that, but he said, he told me, he informed me that the counsel for the attorney had said that they needed a hundred and had talked to Brian.

The counsel for the attorney had said that they needed a hundred and twenty thousand dollars.

Now he told me that.

And that was in this office.

And then he got up and told that to... And then he got up and told that to...

It's you, so you said right away.

No, we all discussed it.

We all discussed it.

I think all of us here are at least part of the conversation.

I said, well, what the hell are you going to do?

Why are you having a discussion?

I said, first of all, I said, how can you do that?

That was the point that we made.

I said, what would it cost to me?

So I sort of let him.

That's what I did.

Good thing he died.

I sort of let him.

That's what I did.

Good thing he died.

But that, at that point, is when I got engaged.

So that's, of course, what I would say.

I don't have to say it like that.

I do.

I did not believe that Peterson or Deaton would go so far as to try to create any conversation with the president.

I don't either.

That's what I wanted to talk to you about.

I didn't want you to think I was naive.

But I think the worst Judas in the world would think twice before he put anything at your doorstep.

Well, this, uh, this recalls Larry... Go ahead.

This recalls Larry and Dean's remark yesterday after walking in the park with Dean, and Dean said he was a big man and he would not go under to anybody.

And that he was not going to...

When they walked in the park yesterday?

Yes.

This is Larry's report.

They had a little meeting yesterday.

Larry and Dean.

And Dean would not go under?

Dean said he was not going to go under to anybody and he was not going to go under.

He was not going to take the risk.

Now, this conversation takes on new weight in light of this matter.

In other words, we must conclude that there's a chance he would turn on you.

Frank, did we hear from Higby yesterday that the dean said to him that the president must be careful with Peterson?

take his counsel, but he's not his lawyer.

And be careful that the president doesn't get in the position of instructing the president.

You know, that's it.

He said substantially that.

He said Peterson was your best counsel.

He used the word counsel, but not your friend.

And then he used the phrase.

Now, this, this, this is not, this wasn't said in my judgment.

Of course, I got it second-handed.

But this wasn't said with an idea of sympathy.

This was said with an idea of a threat in my judgment.

Equals his present, which is counsel, but not his friend.

Counsel, he said.

Do you think he meant C-O-N-E-S-U-L, C-O-U-N-E-S-U-L?

I think it was counsel, but not his friend.

And to be cautious with Peterson that he doesn't get in the position of, well, how would I be in the position?

Why are you crossing off of this and this?

No, I'm asking you.

If there is, I need to know because I must not.

I've got to tell Peterson that he's going to get out of these things.

We do not have any information as to how it should be.

Well, we've taken a lot of good time.

Yes, I feel like I've taken too much time.

Oh, well, I didn't know that.

This is the substance that I recall.

I don't remember the exact words, but I remember the thought.

And I want to be sure that he was the source of it.

Yeah, well, the second thing, Augustus, as I said, that's the only conversation that I can ever recall that we had in that whole period.

I never saw him in February.

and they were talking about the case of February.

And I never knew about the Lacostean language.

I was in California that time, and I didn't know about it.

So that was the last call I knew about.

I knew about it.

But I didn't.

This was blackmail.

So that was, well, I think that was basically the end.

As I say, that was the date that I'm not sure when he first died.

I don't think, I can't imagine...

And one thing that perhaps you should know the flavor of the prosecutor's office here, we've seen it in other cases.

Seymour Glanzer, I don't know about Silbert because I don't know him, but the people in his office will put the pressure on potential witnesses.

If they get something off Mike Dean, they'll put the pressure on him.

to go after the higher-ups and promise them immunity, and they will make misstatements to me as to the strength of their case against him, to cite him into giving testimony, maybe factual, maybe not factual, against the leader.

We had precisely this set of facts that Frank's telling you, and we stood up to it.

That's not my job

I did it.

You know, I stayed.

Nobody, you know, I ought to have said anything.

I said no.

No major figure, it is my view that no, I have expressed the view that no major figure should be granted immunity.

Now the point is that I have, I've got to reiterate to Peterson that he's got to make the decision.

Oh, absolutely.

I didn't, I didn't check that before.

I think it's a very close call there on this.

It's a very close call.

Isn't it?

Selfishly, from Bob and John's point of view, I'd hate to see him get immunity.

From your point of view, as we expressed earlier, it may be.

immunity is going to be granted there's always a quid pro quo there

character pieces of cross-examination.

You see my point?

Certainly.

In other words, there's going to be a favor for his testimony, and this is always, without corroboration, this is always a very weak lead.

Don't you think so, Francis?

We agree, but then look at the juries we get here.

Six-man jury.

Not too intelligent.

All they've done is read headlines for a year.

No, wait.

He's not a six-man jury.

He's a criminal case.

Well, what you get is, this president, you get 10, at least 10 black people.

And 10 of those 10 will be Democrats.

Sure.

We're going to have to change the value, aren't we?

Well, we mentioned that this morning.

I think, without boasting, that we can get rid of Sirica now.

Because I'm representing Sirica in the Court of Appeal in the controversy with the District Attorney.

If my man or our man's in the night, he can't sit with me, as he goes around downtown to invite John Wilson's mother over here.

Now, on the other hand, if anybody's in the night, these two boys of ours have to be caught with witnesses, just plain witnesses.

He can't try, because we'll be down there protecting these two witnesses.

So that, uh, if we want to get Minnesota, and what's happened this year, John, I've known John since we were the DA's office together, almost 40 years ago.

And he's a, I don't know, a more devout Republican than John.

But what's happened to him is that he's got the idea, he's got the clue, and he's so goddamn fair that he's leaning over backwards against Republicans.

And so, and getting back to... And I don't, I think he has gone far beyond what he should have.

Oh, there's no doubt.

I mean, getting Liddy 20 years on six years, and out on six years, that's just unconscious.

No, it's not.

I mean, Liddy is not coming.

He has lost his head about the whole thing.

But John, I'm very fond of him personally.

He's not profound.

And he's...

He's just wrapped in a cloak of purity around him in this situation, so it's dangerous to everybody.

But we can get rid of him.

We can get another judge here who would be...

Worse.

Might be worse.

We could go elsewhere.

If we could get him a change of review.

Well, let's hope you don't have to step in.

Let's hope you don't.

Well, you've been very, you've been very, you've been very, you've been very, you've been very, you've been very, you've been very, you've been very, you've been very, you've been very, you've been very,

Oh, wait a minute.

I'll give you a look.

Here.

Should I give you a check?

No, you didn't.

And I've heard a good thing you did last night.

You told me you would do this.

Thank you.

All right, all right.

All right.

Are these the ones that got the inauguration?

These are there.

I was just a wife, and you take care of her.

I do play golf, I swear to God.

I do, I can't afford it.

Another jet.

But John, I'm very fond of him personally.

He's not here who would be worse.

If we could get him to change the plan.

And he's just wrapped and choked.

Well, let's hope you don't have to.

Let's hope not.

Well, he's been very impure to you around in this situation, so it's dangerous to everybody.

But we can get rid of him.

He's been that little talk that he may have with Dean.

That's very interesting.

You know, another judge here who might be worse.

His counsel, but not his friend.

He might not let the president get to live.

If we could get him a change of venue.

Well, let's hope you don't have to step in.

Let's hope you don't have to step in.

Well, you've been very important.

You've been very important.

He's been that little talk that he may have with Dean, that very interesting one.

He says, he either says it's his counsel but not his friend, that he might not have the president get to the legal structure.

What's he thinking?

I don't know what he's talking about.

Basically, he's thinking, I don't know what he's talking about.

We'd rather not be together.

Basically, we'd rather not be together.

I don't know what he's thinking.

No, you didn't.

I was hoping you would do this.

Thank you.

All right.

Thank you.

I do play golf.

I'm just a wife and you take the door.

I do play golf I do play golf I do play golf I do play golf I do play golf

Thank you.