Nixon White House Tapes — Conversation 906-016
Date: Friday, April 27, 1973 at 5:00 PM
Participants: Nixon, Richard M. (President); Ziegler, Ronald L.; [Unknown person(s)]
Recording device: Oval Office
Source: https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/906-016

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite it as authoritative.

[0:01] Well, that's over with.
[0:13] A couple things I think should be called to your attention, Mr. President, to see how we proceed with it.
[0:21] There's information coming into my office from a number of different sources.
[0:28] One is from
[0:30] Shumway, who was told that Hirsch, Seymour Hirsch, in the New York Times, was told, told Bittman, that they may have information that takes this whole story to a new level.
[0:47] And Shumway's source for this was apparently O'Brien.
[0:51] And as a part of the transfer of this information, which comes from O'Brien, O'Brien being one of the lawyers, O'Brien,
[0:59] Hirsch told Bittman, apparently Hirsch and Bittman are good friends, Hirsch told Bittman that they have information which will take this matter to a new level, a new plateau.
[1:11] That means the president, of course.
[1:12] Yes, sir.
[1:13] Now, Bittman apparently communicated this to O'Brien.
[1:18] They had their discussion.
[1:20] And O'Brien told Shumway.
[1:23] Shumway reported it over here.
[1:26] As a part of the transfer of this information,
[1:29] they indicated, and this is what makes me somewhat skeptical of it, of course, that Dean, in his testimony or statement, is reported to have implicated the president.
[1:43] Now, Dean has not testified.
[1:46] Dean has made a statement.
[1:49] But that would be information that Peterson has had and therefore would have
[1:58] in his discussions with you covered.
[2:01] Now, also, okay, that's that side of the thing.
[2:07] Woodward has called several people here.
[2:10] Woodward is a personal friend of Gergen's from college days and so forth.
[2:15] And also called Warren, and I had both of them milk as much as they could out of Woodward.
[2:21] And Woodward's point is that they have very serious reports coming in today, stories reviewing, again, a new dimension, new plateau,
[2:30] Two basic stories, the new level story suggesting, you know, someone implicating the president.
[2:36] And the other one suggesting that the vice president is going to resign.
[2:39] So they both fall into those, excuse me.
[2:44] They both fall into these categories.
[2:45] Now, the point, the reason I raise this is to how to head it off.
[2:52] Now, there are several ways to do this, at least to approach it.
[2:57] the direct dean approach, which I don't think is worthwhile.
[3:00] The dean-garment approach, which I don't think is worthwhile.
[3:04] Now, there is another approach, perhaps, and that would be a conversation that Gergen could have with Woodward and tell Woodward, look, you're looking for perspective on this.
[3:23] You're looking for guidance on this.
[3:25] You're confused about it, as Woodward said.
[3:29] Stay 100% away from it.
[3:31] There's no fact to it.
[3:32] There's no substance to it, and so forth.
[3:35] I've got Peters in here, and I'll talk to him and see what it is.
[3:39] He says that Woodward says that they have this from Dean.
[3:42] No, no, no, no.
[3:44] Woodward does not say that.
[3:46] The reference to Dean came through the Hirsch-Bittman-O'Brien channel.
[3:52] Hirsch says that Bittman says that Dean says that.
[3:56] Hirsch told Bittman that they have information that indicates the presence.
[4:02] Bittman told that apparently to O'Brien.
[4:04] O'Brien told it to Shumway.
[4:07] Shumway then passed it back.
[4:09] Yes, sir.
[4:10] You still don't think he carried the tape recorder?
[4:15] I don't think it matters that he did.
[4:19] I don't think he did.
[4:20] It don't mean anybody would believe you?
[4:22] No, sir, but this again gets to the point of timing.
[4:25] Yeah, I mean, this is the way, the reason I'm in races.
[4:28] No, uh, yes, sir.
[4:30] Yes, sir.
[4:32] I sold that deal about 10% of all the rest of our economy now.
[4:51] The point is that they have very serious reports coming as a new level story today.
[5:05] Stories reviewing a new dimension, new plateau.
[5:08] You know, someone implicating the president.
[5:11] And the other one is suggesting that the vice president is going to resign.
[5:15] Two basic stories.
[5:17] The new level story.
[5:19] And so they both fall into suggesting, you know, implicating the president.
[5:24] And the other one is they both fall into these categories, suggesting that now the point the vice president is going to resign, so they both fall into this.
[5:35] The reason I raise this is they both fall into these categories as to how to head it off.
[5:43] Now, there are several ways to do this, at least two ways.
[5:48] The point, the reason I approach it, the direction I raise this, is to how to head it off.
[5:55] Now, there's the Dean approach, which I don't think is worthwhile.
[5:59] The Dean Garment approach, which I don't think is worthwhile.
[6:01] There are several ways to do this, at least to approach it.
[6:05] Now, the direct Dean approach, which I don't think is worthwhile.
[6:11] The Dean Garment approach.
[6:13] There is another approach, perhaps.
[6:17] And that would be, I don't think, worthwhile.
[6:20] Now, there is another approach, perhaps.
[6:28] Conversation that Gergen could have with Woodward.
[6:33] And tell Woodward.
[6:37] And that would be, you're looking for the perspective.
[6:40] Conversation that Gergen could have with Woodward on this.
[6:44] You're looking for guidance on this.
[6:46] You're confused about it, as Woodward said.
[6:49] Stay and tell Woodward, look, you're looking 100% away from it.
[6:54] You're looking for perspective on this.
[6:56] You're looking for guidance on this.
[6:59] There's no fact to it.
[7:00] There's no substance to it, and so forth.
[7:03] You're confused about it, as Woodward said.
[7:09] Stay 100% away from it.
[7:11] There's no fact to it.
[7:12] no substance to it.
[7:13] He says that Woodward says that they have this from Dean.
[7:17] No, no, no, no.
[7:18] I've got Peters in here and I'll talk to him.
[7:23] Woodward does not say that.
[7:25] He says that Woodward says that they have this.
[7:28] The reference to Dean came through the Hirsch Whitman O'Brien.
[7:34] No, no.
[7:35] Woodward does not say that.
[7:37] The reference to Dean
[7:43] speaking through the Hirsch.
[7:45] Hirsch told Bittman that they have information that O'Brien is channeling.
[7:50] Hirsch says to Bittman that in the case of the president.
[7:56] Bittman told, Hirsch told Bittman to O'Brien.
[8:00] O'Brien told it to Shumway.
[8:02] Shumway then said that they have information that in the case of the president.
[8:10] Bittman told O'Brien to O'Brien.
[8:15] I don't think it matters.
[8:19] I don't think it matters.
[8:21] I don't think it matters.
[8:23] I don't think it matters.
[8:26] I don't think it matters.
[8:44] No, uh, yes, sir.
[8:45] I still hold that, no, sir, but the deal is that money gets to the point of money.
[8:50] Yeah.
[8:51] I mean, there's a way, for the reasons I'm going to raise, that are extraordinary.
[8:55] Uh, no, uh, yes, sir.
[8:57] Yes, sir.
[9:03] I still hold that deal about Kendrick Carter and all that.
[9:19] We'll be right back.