Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 909 › Conversation 909-015

Nixon & Ziegler on Watergate and Clemency

Wednesday, May 2, 1973 · 10:15 AM–10:21 AM ET · Oval Office · 4 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Ziegler, Ronald L.Conversation909-015 on Tape 909StartWednesday, May 2, 1973 at 10:15 AMEndWednesday, May 2, 1973 at 10:21 AMRecording deviceOval OfficeSourceNixon Library record for 909-015 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Press Secretary Ronald Ziegler discuss strategies to manage the Watergate narrative, specifically by denying any presidential involvement in or discussions regarding clemency for involved parties. They also address the Daniel Ellsberg psychiatrist break-in, with Nixon asserting he was unaware of the operation until March 1973 and defending his administration's surveillance activities as necessary for national security. Additionally, Nixon instructs Ziegler on how to frame his public interactions to emphasize that the President was focused on governing rather than political maneuvering.

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Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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I told you this whole thing is clemency.

And you, the law manager, have not ever been discussing clemency with me.

Right.

And I don't want to deny that flat again.

Yeah.

Right?

I mean, I don't think, I don't know what they're saying.

Well, they're not the president promised clemency.

He should not have promised clemency.

I mean, for Christ's sakes, I don't, to anyone.

Right.

Never discussed.

Right.

We've said that.

I'm sure eventually, most of the other problems is, you know what I mean?

It's hard to say.

I can't control that.

But I need to call her.

Okay.

Do you have just one more moment?

Sure.

Um, Stu also called me, and he said, Ron, can I have lunch with you today?

I don't know, uh, if that would be worthwhile or not.

Uh,

and in the background of decisions and so forth.

But he might be a good bellwether, a good sensitizer.

Well, this is the time to get in the background to see the president working and so forth and so on.

It's time to talk about moving ahead.

I had to tell him that they didn't want to go.

There's the real story.

That's right.

And so on.

This is not the thing.

We're going right ahead with things and so forth.

It's just one of those things where the president was too busy being president.

Right.

Just didn't pay attention to politics.

Moved that line.

Loved other people.

Moved that line.

Don't take any of the crap.

You know what I'm saying?

But I did the leak thing.

You bet your life.

I did that hard.

Yes, sir.

We had to tell them.

We had to get that.

We had to get the Pakistan thing.

You know what I mean?

It had to be done.

both from the White House and from the FBI.

And it's always been done from both, right?

You know what I mean?

Good.

But as soon as this particular incident occurred in the White House, it didn't.

Of course, you, as you said to me, you were not aware of the break-in.

No, excuse me.

I mean of the psychiatrist.

I wasn't aware of it until

I was informed of it by in March of this year.

You know, my own investigation.

Never heard of it.

That's right.

See, that leads to the question about expressing confidence in early fitness.

Well, I guess they just didn't want to tell me that they had screwed something up.

But my God, I'm like.

I think the present people don't mind people who technically break in.

I have absolutely no information.

For Christ's sakes, I don't do stupid things.

No, I'm not suggesting you do.

You know what I mean?

No, that's the point.

I was just trying to emphasize that.

Absolutely not.

I'm sure of that.

I'm sure.

Nobody informed me of it.

And again, it's just hard to believe.

Why?

They didn't get anything.

And nothing more was done.

But nobody informed me of it at all.

No, I didn't know he had a psychiatrist.

I was involved in the whole thing.

Okay, good.

If you stole the gun, then not.

Let's get it back to the supply center.

Okay, okay, sir.

Bye.

NARA Description

On May 2, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and Ronald L. Ziegler met in the Oval Office of the White House from 10:15 am to 10:21 am. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 909-015 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 909-15

Date: May 2, 1973
Time: 10:15 am - 10:21 am
Location: Oval Office

The President met with Ronald L. Ziegler.
                                            -23-

                    NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                                            Conversation No. 909-30 (cont’d)

       Watergate
             -Clemency
                   -Discussions with President
                           -Ziegler’s denials
                   -John N. Mitchell and Charles W. Colson
                   -H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman and John D. Ehrlichman
                   -Stewart Alsop’s telephone call to Ziegler
                           -Request for lunch
                                   -Possible topic of conversation
                                           -Haldeman and Ehrlichman
                                                  -Leave of absence
                   -President’s activities
                   -Leaks
                           -India-Pakistan war
                           -Surveillance
                                   -White House, Federal Bureau of Investigation [FBI]
                           -Daniel Ellsberg break-in
                                   -President’s knowledge
                                           -March 1973
                                   -Ehrlichman
                                           -Statement regarding President
                                   -President’s knowledge
                           -Ellsberg’s psychiatrist
                                   -President’s knowledge
                           -Documents

Ziegler left at 10:21 am.

Also recorded on May 2, 1973

045-134 10:08 AM · 10 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 10:08 am and 10:14 am.
909-012 10:08 AM · 8 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 10:08 am and 10:14 am.
909-013 10:08 AM · 11 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and unknown person(s) met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 10:08 am and 10:14 am.
045-135 10:14 AM · 15 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Julie Nixon Eisenhower talked on the telephone from 10:14 am to 10:15 am.
909-014 10:14 AM · 15 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Julie Nixon Eisenhower met in the Oval Office of the White House from 10:14 am to 10:15 am.
045-136 10:21 AM · 10 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 10:21 am and 10:24 am.
909-016 10:21 AM · 3 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Stephen B. Bull, and White House operator met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 10:21 am and 10:24 am.
045-137 10:24 AM · 7 min — President Richard M. Nixon and William P. Rogers talked on the telephone from 10:24 am to 10:31 am.

All 82 conversations from May 2, 1973 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 909-015, May 2, 1973. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/909-015 (accessed October 5, 2026).