Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 909 › Conversation 909-021

Nixon & Cole on White House Counsel and Personnel Selection

Wednesday, May 2, 1973 · 10:47 AM–10:49 AM ET · Oval Office · 3 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Cole, Kenneth R., Jr.Conversation909-021 on Tape 909StartWednesday, May 2, 1973 at 10:47 AMEndWednesday, May 2, 1973 at 10:49 AMRecording deviceOval OfficeSourceNixon Library record for 909-021 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Kenneth R. Cole, Jr. met to discuss potential candidates to replace John W. Dean, III as White House counsel. The conversation focused on the qualifications required for the role, specifically evaluating Edward L. Morgan as a potential candidate due to his reputation as a solid thinker and his limited involvement in campaign activities. Nixon expressed concerns about pulling Morgan from his critical duties as Assistant Secretary of the Treasury, ultimately directing Cole to consult with others regarding Morgan’s suitability and recommendations.

Audio

Download MP3 · 5.7 MB

Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

Download transcript (.txt) · JSON data

· Click a timestamp to play from that point; the page address then links to that moment (e.g. #t=125).
Do you ever talk to yourself as the head of the public?
I don't have the top of my head, Mr. President.
I wouldn't want to give that to you.
He's got to be, you know, have a little experience.
There is one lawyer that I have met during my tenure here in Washington that I have a great deal of respect for who has been on the staff.
I think he's got a good sound thinker, and that's Ed Morgan.
I don't know.
I have a tremendous amount of respect for him.
He may be too close to everything now for that kind of thing, but he is one of the most solid people that I've had contact with.
He would be very good, but...
I don't know whether he's... Was he involved in the campaign?
No, sir.
He worked with us on the staff and was involved...
strictly in the business of working with the Congress during the last portion of the campaign.
To the best of my knowledge, he had no involvement at all in campaign activities.
He was out, as some of us were, making some speeches and that kind of thing.
But beyond that... Why don't you get a call to John Irvin and see what he thinks of Ed Martin?
Ed is Assistant Secretary of the Treasury right now.
He is handling the law enforcement area over there, the Secret Service.
I'm afraid that's too important.
No, no.
That's a critical, that's a critical.
No, no, no, no, no.
We don't need somebody like that.
We just need a good guy who can run through the, you know what it involves, and the counsel's office, you know, getting the clarity and all that sort of thing.
I might ask Ed for... Ed might have some thoughts on this himself, but another call that I'd like to...
check is uh jim all right

NARA Description

On May 2, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and Kenneth R. Cole, Jr. met in the Oval Office of the White House from 10:47 am to 10:49 am. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 909-021 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 909-21

Date: May 2, 1973
Time: 10:47 am - 10:49 am
Location: Oval Office

The President met with Kenneth R. Cole, Jr.

       White House counsel
             -Frederic V. Malek [?]’s possible conversation
             -John W. Dean, III’s replacement
             -Leonard Garment
             -Qualifications
                    -Age
             -Edward L. Morgan
                    -Previous role with White House
                             -Campaign activities
                             -Congressional relations
                             -Speeches
             -Possible telephone call to John D. Ehrlichman
             -Current position
                    -Assistant Treasury Secretary
                             -Law enforcement, United States Secret Service [USSS]
                             -Critical position
             -Requirements
             -Morgan’s recommendations
             -James T. Lynn

Cole left at 10:49 am.
                                             -28-

                    NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                                              Conversation No. 909-30 (cont’d)

Also recorded on May 2, 1973

  • 045-138 10:31 AM · 13 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 10:31 am and 10:43 am.
  • 909-018 10:31 AM · 8 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and unknown person(s) met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 10:31 am and 10:43 am.
  • 909-019 10:31 AM · 12 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 10:31 am and 10:43 am.
  • 909-020 10:43 AM · 3 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Ronald L. Ziegler met in the Oval Office of the White House from 10:43 am to 10:46 am.
  • 909-022 10:49 AM · 48 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Thomas Hart met in the Oval Office of the White House from 10:49 am to 10:54 am.
  • 909-023 10:54 AM · 25 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 10:54 am and 11:04 am.
  • 909-024 10:54 AM · 11 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and unknown person(s) met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 10:54 am and 11:04 am.
  • 909-034 10:54 AM · 7 sec — unknown person(s) met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 10:54 am and 11:04 am.

All 82 conversations from May 2, 1973 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 909-021, May 2, 1973. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/909-021 (accessed October 5, 2026).