Nixon White House Tapes — Conversation 911-004
Date: Thursday, May 3, 1973 at 9:11 AM
Participants: Nixon, Richard M. (President); Packard, David; Bull, Stephen B.
Recording device: Oval Office
Source: https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/911-004

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite it as authoritative.

[0:00] Nothing's more important.
[0:12] Wait till you guys get a better view.
[1:28] I wanted you to be Secretary of Defense.
[2:07] selling problems are because these are not just anything of my own feeling.
[2:13] When I came out here before, I put the Hewlett-Packard stock that I had in a terrible trust, a two-year trust under the terms of which all of the income from the stock went to charity.
[2:27] And in order to sort of assure that nothing that was done while I was here would include my benefit in regard to this stock,
[2:36] I also agreed to give the charity any appreciation of the stock.
[2:40] In other words, the value of the stock when it came out of the trust was more than the ones that I made.
[2:47] I agreed to give that to the charity.
[2:49] So on a note of this, did I receive either any income or any appreciation?
[2:55] And it's when I went to present this appreciation, I gave away about $18 million in pushes.
[3:08] One of the reasons that I thought I had this idea is because some things have been happening in the economy.
[3:16] I didn't know the economy was going up.
[3:21] I didn't know there was money in the economy.
[3:24] So just to give you a little calibration, I had stayed another year and made $200 million out of this stuff.
[3:32] And that seemed to me, and I anticipated that, and that's the way it came out.
[3:35] Now, the first problem is that
[3:37] The short-term trust, the terrible trust, was taken out in the Revenue Act of 1969, so that mechanism is no longer available.
[3:45] And where I don't see, well, in the first place, there's no possibility of selling this stock under these conditions.
[3:56] And I don't see any basis on which I can insulate myself from this, and it isn't just whether the Senate
[4:14] I don't see any ways that can be done again.
[4:16] I've talked to Mel about this and he's troubled with it.
[4:22] So that, now I'm going to talk to Senator Stennis today, and I will explore this, but I wanted you to understand that is a very difficult problem, and not just in terms of what the Senate would do, but, you know, especially in these times, if I came back here with someone I could like,
[4:42] If I had any question to it, it wouldn't be good.
[4:48] I think it might be true of almost any of you, but even accepting your confidence in me, one of the reasons that I think I did it,
[5:17] The second problem is with Mr. Hewlett.
[5:19] He and I have been partners for 30 years now.
[5:22] He agreed to take over the responsibility, not only for the company, but for some other things that we've had in common.
[5:32] He was very enthusiastic about my coming out in 69, and he was very unenthusiastic about it today.
[5:39] Now that, I think, could be handled, but
[5:46] It would involve my having to impose on him again.
[5:49] I don't want to bother you with all of these details.
[5:57] I am going to talk to Bill Rogers, to Elliot, and to Senator Stennis.
[6:04] But I don't see any way in which this talk can be handled at this time.
[6:12] Now, there are...
[6:15] some other things that I think I'd like to mention.
[6:22] If I did come out, and if I could work these things out, I would definitely want it understood that I don't have the complete control of the appointments in the department.
[6:32] I couldn't tell him that he had any cases, and especially under these times.
[6:40] That would be essentially legal.
[6:51] There are two other possibilities.
[6:55] If I couldn't work it out for the full time, it might be feasible to work out something that would be acceptable on a transition.
[7:25] I could come out here and spend some time helping
[7:54] about some of these problems, I could come out and spend a substantial amount of time and get into some of these specific things.
[8:02] I could help lucky perhaps up on the Hill, some of the issues on the budget and these other matters, and I could do that without any question.
[8:12] That would have to be, of course, subject to whether the people over at the Pentagon and you felt that would be of any value to you.
[8:22] Yeah, you see, that would help.
[8:42] You know, the last, I see, the last couple months, I stayed over after my official resignation.
[8:49] I'm helping now, and I was able to do some things there that would help, would be helpful.
[8:56] And I could do that, and I do want to see that, if we can't work on anything else.
[9:09] I'd like to assure a fair man, Mr. Kestrel, he's
[9:14] You need to talk to Bill, talk to, I'm going to talk to Bill, and I'm going to have lunch with Senator Severson.
[9:23] But you don't see any way that it could work?
[9:26] I don't see any way.
[9:28] No, but you don't have any other candidates, do you?
[9:32] No, ma'am.
[9:32] There really isn't, by any chance.
[9:46] What about Ken Ross?
[10:14] I think that the combination of Ken and Clements wouldn't be too bad.
[10:22] My judgment is that I didn't get too out of play with Rush, but he understands some of the international aspects of the job, and I think Clements understands some of the other side of the job.
[10:36] I think the combination would not be too bad.
[10:43] and that would be a circumstance in which I would sit in the room, help them, and your father would help them.
[10:50] I'll tell you what you do.
[10:52] First year, first choice.
[10:56] I think you'd be a much better man.
[11:01] You'd be an awful lot to us.
[11:16] It's just too complicated for me to understand.
[11:17] But we have to decide very soon.
[11:21] Well, I think this matter that I want to talk to Bill Rogers, I want to talk to Elliot, and I'm going to do all that today.
[11:36] Fine.
[11:36] So I can let you know.
[11:39] Well, at the end of the day or tomorrow, whether George thinks there's anywhere...
[11:42] I'll be...
[11:43] I'll be gone until I report to the argument.
[11:44] No, no, no.
[11:45] Oh, you mean you're trying to phone...
[11:47] I mean, I'll be in Florida, but I'm going to put the White House phone in.
[11:52] And I'm available with this description at any time you want.
[11:55] I'm just... Let me put it this way.
[11:58] They can possibly do it.
[12:00] Possibly do it.
[12:01] And if you can't do it, I'll understand.
[12:03] Well, I'm not going to give you that heart or so all of a sudden...
[12:13] I don't want to help you.
[12:15] It'll work out.
[12:16] Yeah, well, I know it'll work out.
[12:19] But at the end of the day, it's pretty hard, you know, to have to take two of the decent men, like all of them, and early ones.
[12:29] And eventually it had to be done.
[12:32] But you agreed.
[12:33] Well, I, well, I did.
[12:36] It's one of the things that I think that you might feel would be helpful.
[12:41] Uh-huh.
[12:42] and tell them where it stands to release the names of the donors prior to April 7th.
[12:47] I told you at that time.
[12:50] Now, I think, well, I know, I know my old dad.
[12:54] I've talked to him.
[12:55] He feels he has a commitment to those people that their names wouldn't be released.
[13:01] But I think the issue is bigger than that now.
[13:04] And you didn't make that commitment to them.
[13:05] I think you ought to tell them to do it.
[13:09] If I told them to do it, the moment it rose,
[13:12] You know, in the spring, I said, Marty, put it out.
[13:15] But I told him, I don't know, maybe he's got names in there.
[13:20] He goes, what?
[13:21] What the hell?
[13:22] What difference does it make?
[13:26] That's right.
[13:27] I think it's critical that be done.
[13:34] I think it would be, I think it would be a very secondary thing if you told him or if you made it public that you told him.
[13:42] And if there's some names on there, that's a problem, but I think we'd better get one out right now.
[13:53] Because the collider, I don't know what it might have been.
[13:56] You know, those vestal things, the damage from being ever hurt, the...
[14:12] Whether he did or didn't, I haven't gotten that to my home.
[14:18] But believe me, we have what a shocking outfit he is.
[14:43] They're all sorts of people that either want to get money, they don't get a thing out of us.
[14:50] We don't really know.
[14:51] Well, I hope you understand that if I can't do this, I will only be a cause sign.
[14:59] I just don't see any way in which I think you'll stand the light of the scoop in here.
[15:06] I think that's very important at this time.
[15:14] You really don't think so?
[15:15] Well, you know, that other arrangement was absolutely clean.
[15:19] There was no way that anybody could criticize that.
[15:21] And that mechanism just isn't available.
[15:23] I'll explore this very carefully with Senator Stanton, and I think he'll be sympathetic.
[15:44] or anything that might be all right, but so far I haven't really seen any way it can be done.
[15:54] And I can agree to give away the income, but then it gets all complicated to the taxable.
[16:07] Well, I don't want to argue.
[16:16] Well, I'll tell you, I appreciate what you've done.
[16:27] I'm going to work on it.
[16:35] I'll talk to the rest of you.
[16:41] Good.
[16:42] Let me know.
[16:43] You can do this or do whatever else you can.
[16:46] I appreciate it, David.
[16:48] I appreciate you taking that long flight.
[16:50] Do it if you can.
[16:53] That's quite no problem.
[16:54] I certainly will.
[16:54] Thank you.
[16:55] Thank you.
[16:56] Thanks a lot.