Conversation 913-001

Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

I'm afraid that can't introduce the penalty, uh, uh, the way it's been tested.

Oh, there's a, there should be, uh, well, you know, you can get it, or, you know, you can sign this, and that's the additional penalty, too, but, you know, you can't absolutely do it.

Uh, it's the weather out there.

Tell me how about getting the papers back?

That's right, he takes the leaders off from other people who aren't going to have access or be able to get competent.

I saw many of your comments.

He's delighted that we can't change the program because it's his department.

Right.

He's gooshy about it.

He gets, he starts his hearings tomorrow for Attorney General.

And he's very fearful that we don't

that they don't fail, and then he's out of two jobs.

And I said, you don't have to worry about that.

I said, you wouldn't have a problem with it.

No, we just got to plan the whole thing.

He's got to get through it.

It's worth being conceivable that he wouldn't.

No, no.

Particularly with his movement, especially with us.

But if it made him feel better, I said no.

I hope it's, well, it has to be.

It's got to be, yes.

It has to be, you know.

I just have to talk with Dick Moore and, you know, certain guys.

He's a good, good guy.

He thinks we need to basically be working on this.

He said, for example, until these legal cases are over.

I don't know what move is being made in that case.

Well, we...

I think we need to do it, too, because it's not a prejudiced season, and it's how...

If they truly see...

The thought now is we give John Dean...

If they get him...

If they give him immunity and put him on those hearings, he's not going to get to freeze like us, but he'll destroy them.

They'll never get a fair hearing of them.

No, it's like you're going to move a plane, you've got a strategy, which you want to cover with roads when it comes in.

And how the hell are you going to break it?

We're in on the discussion.

We've got a four-point strategy.

There are some aspects of it I don't like, that they are destroying me.

It would be to join.

We had 30 days in here.

10 automatically, we had 20 before they could go into this kind of procedure.

You mean they could join here?

Is that all?

Yes.

With this revised testimony.

So, uh, that's it.

If it hasn't signed the committee, I'm pulling the W.R.D.

for leave.

Okay, we'll watch it again soon.

We'll watch it today.

Yes, we'll watch it again soon.

We do have to have a secretary.

And what he came in with, I didn't like, it was a little too forthcoming, it was that we would, they couldn't, we'd just take executive privilege on any congressional hearings.

But concurrently we would solve the executive privilege in the grand jury by going ahead and doing away with the executive privilege.

Which means that Bob and the other witness would have no evidence of which one matter related to Marky.

Now we've got to look at it very, very carefully.

It could be that it's worth it.

But that's what I'm saying.

Some boy long as long as he's dead.

We're signing the guys on bail.

However, we take positions in due process.

There is no way that we're going to have these kinds of congressional hearings jeopardizing the rights of those in the U.N. on the lease that come out of it.

It's in the jurable process, and it will stay that way.

but we have a system in the right now of a dialogue that we probably should try to have from the torii of the world of life, of disease and revelation.

In that context, it becomes an indirect admission of guilt and salvation.

You mean the guilt of the brotherhood?

Yes.

And we can do it easy to handle.

They're just a great liability in the context of Monday, for who they are.

Well, I would say that you could say that, you know, I would let Dean have his executive there.

You mean everybody has all the, in one way you might approach it, would be to have everybody have all the privilege?

on the abuses issue, on the abuses issue, but exacting privilege with all others until the court proceedings are completed.

Is that what you would say?

No, no, sir.

What we say is, A, we are taking the executive privilege for all congressional testimony.

It won't be any.

In lieu of any congressional hearings, we insist that the whole litigation be within the jury, the established juror's process, the grand jury, every angel in the grand jury.

But in the process of doing that, we've got to iron out our current guidelines to what they say.

And make it more broad, make it much more broad, and what we can, what we need, and what's even more broad than that, just lift it totally.

No, they had no papers, but as far as testimony is concerned, they would be free to testify on anything on the water.

Now, that's the thing I have problems with.

We need chance, careful attention on the waters.

Well, tell me, the Senate, though, can offer it, but I think the judge has to rule on that, too, doesn't he?

You understand?

Doesn't Soroka have to grant it?

Has he done that?

You know, I mean, anyone who has a witness answer to that has to be heard about it.

And we occurred to Dee, and he said, yes, we'll work this deed out of here.

I don't know how he will.

So they... And then he spilled the vessel.

Everything he does is protected over here.

Except for some of the mess that has to be made.

But can't it be made himself?

I don't know.

I haven't told him.

Well, that's it, dude.

And I sort of wonder, I'm looking at the cover of Life, and it says, how much did he know?

Was it sort of vicious?

I don't remember.

That's part of it.

I don't know.

I wouldn't worry about it.

But everybody's going to raise that question.

I got a word from my mom.

She said, did he recall?

No, he was shocked.

He said, well, you've got to be joking.

Because he had a list of meetings made, but somehow he was dealing with the wrong book, the wrong center.

Yeah.

I understand that.

He would have urged himself to go on if he had to.

Yeah, that's right.

Thank God we're lucky here, just as I say to all of us, right after the conference, to be sure we tell the total truth here.

That's all we want.

We want the truth.

I don't remember.

He didn't.

He didn't bother to lie, though.

It's inconceivable that he lied.

He doesn't.

He just had to go out and tell the lie.

He didn't go out and lie.

Probably because his record showed that he had been bad.

You know, we see so many people.

But, uh, nothing to do with the truth is fine.

He was very candid.

He said he handled it very well over there.

And he knows that.

You know what?

It's just that he damn near got booby-trapped.

Out of an administrative matter.

Because that bastard, uh, he said he didn't go anywhere last morning.

You know what I'm saying?

You know, I asked him about any meetings he had when it was personal.

Sure.

And he was going to have to go with it.

Sure.

And he would have just come right out.

See, he told Ron that.

He told Ron that.

I know.

But you played Ronald on that.

I didn't play Ronald on that.

I just said, I didn't get many meetings.

I just said, you know, I'm not going to get into that.

I'm going to work on it.

I'll do it.

Yeah, right at that point.

Yeah, unless he doesn't need it.

He should just play it for him.

Unless he knows it better anyway.

That's right.

So that he doesn't be able to deny it anyway.

Why do you still think that Pete and Papa don't afford the Senate committee?

That the office could survive now?

I don't know.

I don't think the office could survive.

I don't know.

I think it's going to be tough.

And we're doing an easy period here of four years since we've been one thing or another.

Yep.

This is a, this is copper, this is a master deal.

They ought to have this little son of a bitch go in there and talk about copper sessions with the president.

If he tells the truth, though, he will say, the president had no knowledge.

All right.

I saw him only in September the 15th, and I reported it.

In fact, he was pleased with the way I handled the case.

I didn't say keep the little, and I know God that well.

I never know whatever he says.

He's fantastic in that context.

Yeah, that's right.

It didn't mean anything at the time.

It's only when I literally heard it was covered up.

Then he'll go on to say that he'll put out his plan to seek around.

And he'll say that in March 21st that he told me this was a bit of a fit.

And that'll be it.

And then he'll...

He said he couldn't write a report.

Now that's historic.

Believe me, that's all I have.

There's nothing there.

He accepts it.

What is Bob's strategy in this regard?

I think that the one on the show is going to be very heavy on executive purpose.

Bob Hedges, yes, he told me that.

He didn't have to use it at all this first session.

But he knows that they're probably going to zero in on a number of things that he required.

But I can't, it sure doesn't really work against it.

The main point is that, I mean, everybody uses it.

They can just always preface the question.

The president might say he had no knowledge.

Well, I can't testify, I will not testify as to the key, but I do say he had no knowledge of it.

You know what I mean?

Yeah, I mean, there are ways to come around every time.

Yeah.

You see, he just said, I won't testify because of executive privilege.

What the fuck, that's a great goddamn curve.

How much did he owe over the price?

Oh, well, I don't have to worry about that.

There's going to be more out of that.

We'll manage every one of them.

But we do have to have this strategy in place.

We're going to work with this.

In fact, he has to.

There just can't be any worse than that.

I know what's going on.

His judgment is not sober enough.

He's good, but not balanced.

He's good alongside somebody who's used to a real tough nut-cutting.

But not to do it himself.

It's sort of the other way.

We have one more minor issue that I should clear with you today.

It's the legal services bill.

Yeah.

They linked it up a bit from last year.

All right, I'll just take it.

Yeah, the vice president does not like it.

I know.

But he really can't be seen.

I'll take it.

I know that.

I know he is.

I disagree with him, but that's too bad.

All right.

Fine, it's done.

Isn't that a recommendation of a cold?

That's a cold, which would be my recommendation.

All right, I'll take it.

Now, the vice president, I know the objections.

I agree totally, but I...

This is not an issue that I would provide on this line.

The question of being this kind of language is actually a good question.

I mean, the entity...

The judge, I guess, has got to give it to him.

I guess the judge will.

Yes, because it's a service.

And the responsible judge knows what we're talking about.

It's a professional service.

And we should have this...

Does anybody want to make an argument with the judge?

I have.

That's what I've asked Linda.

Why does the judge consider the matter?

I don't know.

In fact, I really don't know whether it's a formal means for it or whether he just exercised it so I could object.

I've got a little problem about tomorrow night.

I take water breaks.

This is a dredger.

All right.

I'm waiting on whether I should talk about water breaks on tomorrow or if there should be other things.

See, if I don't look like I'm afraid of it, I do.

It's all around here.

I guess I better say something about it, don't you?

Yes, you do, sir.

It should be.

You're a good man.

That's right.

You're a good man.

Yes.

And life imagines you as very, very pretty, if at all.

Excuse me, Mr. President.

The center will be delayed about 20 or 25 minutes due to three Senate votes.

So we can perhaps reschedule it.

Would that be alright?

I just don't think it's a good idea for you to say very much about it.

If I could find four or five, I mean, just a couple of sentences.

I think something like this, as you know, we're having some difficulties.

But I don't know if you know one thing.

We will get to the bottom of this because it's important to restore.

There must be comments about it.

Something that's sort of a little, maybe a little out of the way for Elliot Richardson.

If you have some instructions for a special prosecutor, the important thing is to visit the paper that you saw just towards that.

They might see if they can find just one, about three lines, you know, a circle along those lines.

You know what I mean?

About that, uh, sort of that offhand way.

I mean, I did this very often so that they would say that I was enough that I had to ignore them or I don't break anything to ground.

Goddamn, I just can't imagine.

I just can't see this being that going before and sent to me.

You know, we, we don't kill.

We don't stop.

I guess we don't kill.

How do we stop it?

I mean, we claim to serve the purpose, and we don't stop it that way.

We just say we, the matter is under litigation, and it came to the proper forum, and the Senate is not running for it.

We would have gone along with it there, except for responding, which is a total limitation.

The worst way to get it got through there.

We just need it.

And I think, I think we could prevent it, and I think every jurist could agree on this.

If there were a grand jury, they'd know that it'd be in that case.

We've talked a lot about due process on that, you know, and ways in which

What we can say is that with regard to matters other than Watergate, there will be complete cooperation with the Senate Committee under the, you know, under the rules that we have, the ground rules that we've worked out, whether or not there's certain chances that as long as it matters to the Board of Regents or the Rights Division to be checked out instead of, instead of the President's order, we might not.

The big cry there will be the President covers up

That's why you have to, that has to be the law.

The shot loosening, the degree to which we loosen it, we can't do it anyway.

So God, this we were faced with right now, is to loosen up our guidance before the great jury.

If it became justice, testimony, just, just worthy, and no documentation, and no case,

I understand from Lynn that Bob and Soler should be fixed as men if you want for that.

Testable.

Yeah, but not papers.

No papers.

Then you had no more charges of cover-up of any harm.

They just put me.

Well, what they said, Al, that we were trying to

out of the presidential papers.

But no, they can't.

We can't.

We can't let them get into the White House files.

There's no way that that could be true.

Because that's the problem.

And that's not how it's solved.

Four years of operation.

Most of it has got a damn thing to do with Watergate.

But there are a lot of other things that do all the same with that.

And the other time in the history of this country, it just can't be.

It won't be.

What if, for example, a hunter goes and testifies against documents that he's used, studies he's made or something?

Not studies, but investigations he's made through the White House files?

Well, we can select and repeal things on purpose, and that's not going to be championed.

Well, we can say that, except in the national security order, we can just say anything in the national security order.

Oh, I see.

I think we've gotten over, I mean, on this stuff, the national security order.

Don't you agree?

I don't think we're going to have to look at each case.

That's right.

And that's easy to do, and I don't know whether we're going to do any damage.

Should some of us come up to them?

Well, I'm sure some of them are here right now.

Yeah, sure.

They'll be here.

They'll be so glad to be here.

But we also have the gear for it with the right people.

So yeah, I'd like to have a bit more.

In fact, we can.

Always available for council on, for public handling of things.

And garbage too.

How about a price, Shafi?

Uh, no.

It's racist, don't do that.

No, he takes too long, but anyway, Buchanan, Buchanan, Moore, Chappie.

Chappie and Hunter.

And I think we're going to meet.

Rogers.

I don't want John to come if it's a big one.

I don't think it's a big one.

Those guys are...

Yes, they didn't in the context of Wednesday and Thursday or last week before the Dean thing came out.

Yeah, but we didn't.

How did we anticipate it?

We couldn't anticipate it, but we decided we should have.

I didn't think about the guidelines very quickly, given what you thought.

I'm sorry to say I should have.

Well, it's not this...

it isn't a tragedy in any sense now we've got a good reason to remind it's like everything else when you put something in it's tough and you take it away it's a you get some benefits and we get some benefits and it's going to help us practically to fight this thing so i can say also visiting a good idea we've got something to trade which we wouldn't have had

Because the guidelines of interpreters being covered up, conversating with the president about illegal activities, is that the problem?

It should never be.

I know, I see your point.

Parts that say we're going to get a benefit from it.

It's going to be the main factor.

The president shows that any conversations, any conversations will be related to this problem.

I would say that any conversations that involve charges of illegal activities

How do you keep the, how do you keep an extra security, how that helps?

You see, they're basically, even if it's illegal, we want to keep them out.

You could say we accept her matters.

Licit by action security or something like that.

But we have to refine this very carefully, and that's the issue we have right now.

What do we get in return for snuffing out the Senate money?

and keeping it strictly in the Grand Jury.

Scott, you have it in the Grand Jury, right?

That's right.

Okay.

You can't get the demon up there.

But the Senate having offered their community today, the question is, the court is against the

I don't know the range, the processor isn't operating, but yeah.

Is that correct?

That's correct.

We try every time.

That's right.

I can see the pieces in this period.

That's our problem.

We've got some things to do in each station.

Like John Cotton says, freeze prices or roll back prices or something.

That's a great one-day story.

If it isn't the right thing to do, you know what I find.

If it isn't the right thing to do, it's the worst thing.

The thing is that even then, though, if there's any, if you declare war on Cambodia or Thailand or...

Mexico.

I just want to divert attention to this son of a bitch.

You know that, huh?

No, but what is going to divert attention is an association that is already taking place.

You're a hero.

Yes, sir.

I do.

The only guys that don't have it already are the New Zealand sense bitches who are going to destroy the presidency anyway.

Yes, we have a little more time, although it might appear, because we do have this 10 days.

10 days?

What?

It was an automatic 10 days, as I understand from Glenn, before they could execute this kind of testimony under these conditions, and that we could assist on 24.

Now, that's just a holding pattern to work out the strategy.

I don't think we would like to ask for the 20 days more.

That was bad.

But to just actually say, ask us to waive the 10 days, I don't think we should do that under any circumstances.

We've got to waive the 10-day provision, which is supposed to be, in effect, before an offer of this kind of immunity can be...

but we also have the ability to insist on 20 days delay, but that's a conscious act.

We have the 10 days automatic unless we wait and then we can have a conscious act.

What a part of that, pal.

Counsel for Bob.

They must be.

What are they doing?

They may expect us to do it.

Because these, these, these, they look...

you know this is big we should be preventing this we should take the initiative to prevent this kind of thing from happening and that means really at this point now they've shown their irresponsibility to this kind of an offer to just snuff out the whole damn senate hearing process from this point on that's the bold movement i think it's the one that's justified

We will raise all of our friends in the Senate.

But we will, we will stop it out only for the Watergate matter.

You understand?

That's what I, to me it's, it's worth it.

I don't know if they see that and leave it open.

We will, they will go forward and, uh, we will address any reference to the Watergate matter until the, uh, court proceedings have, uh, have been completed.

That's what I think we have to do.

They were heading for that kind of thing anyhow.

If there had been some indictments, they couldn't have gone on with the hell of a lot of this anyhow, sir.

If there had been indictments.

We should have given this advice to Mike.

That's why we may have to ask for the extra clients.

That's why getting Richardson confirmed is so important.

We're still going forward with our campaign, aren't we?

Yes, sir.

I think we should.

I think we should go forward with it.

Play it all the way.

Play it as well as we can.

We're going to do it.

We've got some good changes to make.

I was going to say, you know, it's been a while since he said he was going to call you and recommend Sussex.

But Colby's good.

No reason to understand.

Get those two.

They're good people.

He's not only good, he's...

Prairie's still good.

Good.

And I'll tell you this, let the investment council let that ride a little while.

Until we get it.

I agree.

Until we get to that FBI thing.

I think we'll have to do that.

We don't have to do that.

Let's wait around this apartment.

Things are running well there.

We may not want to put that thing in such a high profile for a while.

And we'll handle that.

Coal is a good thing.

He'll carry it better.

You got any thoughts about getting Timmons?

Yeah, sure.

He's working.

I don't know.

I'm going to see him in San Francisco.

He's got some nominees for him.

I don't want to believe that.

Nominees for him, anybody he wants.

And this is good.

But we'd actually be able to announce those on Thursday, too, if we could.

You know, if we could have...

Or even the fact that it was a big enough system.

That's what's horrible about an old lawyer friend of ours, Ed McCabe, and what he thinks he might be useful to bring in.

Okay.

You know Ed McCabe?

No, I just don't.

The redhead guy used to be very good.

Ed McCabe.

He wrote me a letter, which I very fondly remember.

Asked Bryce how he thinks that the cave would be, whether he'd be useful in it.

Not in the remedy, but in coming to help out with some of this.

Despite the fact that the garage, the vice of the garage, was just frankly trying probably to right this, you know, this.

And he was working with another option that was worse.

Yeah, close to the right.

Let's face it, we can do it.

No, the move I guess you're right is not the right move.

This is the one to...

I need to go thinking, but I think we have 10 days to do it.

We should do it before then, probably.

We should probably do it a little after.

Yeah, because we're paying the price every minute now for this.

That's right.

and the appetite for whatever they get and this type of truth and facts.

But only when we're absolutely sure about it.

You don't think we should go to the front and indicate the guidelines?

Is the other thing we should indicate?

Yeah.

Oh, well, we pay the price.

You say we pay the remit.

That's basically the sense that it doesn't really...

It hurts some for a while, but

We can kill it by strong action.

That's what I say.

He's got all his hindsight, double hindsight.

Having imposed it, now we've got an asset to trade.

To get that Senate here, it's not bad.

If we'd been in the soft position, we wouldn't have been able to get a good offer.

You see the problem?

The pension donors, they get ourselves into an urge, and it's hard to be innocent.

Every time we try to say we want to appear for an urban committee in a country, they raise their arms and say, well, we're trying to cover up.

But I think that we can hammer that completely.

Provided we can say that we can go forward with everything except

Watergate, but since that is a matter and we want to get the... And if you're talking about protection, protection of the right of witnesses, the right of defendants, the right of defendants, the right of defendants, the right of defendants, the right of defendants, the right of defendants, the right of defendants, the right of defendants, the right of defendants, the right of defendants, the right of defendants, the right of defendants, the right of defendants, the right of defendants, the right of defendants, the right of defendants, the right of defendants, the right of defendants, the right of defendants, the right of defendants, the right of defendants, the right of defendants, the right of defendants, the right of defendants, the right of defendants, the right of defendants, the right of defendants, the right of defendants, the right of defendants, the right of defendants, the right of defendants, the right of defendants, the

Say that fast.

That would be very helpful.

You see, that's what it ought to be.

A transgeneral should be able to do that.

He may make it tomorrow.

I don't know if that will go on another day.

He could be running the service.

I mean, they'll testify all day tomorrow.

I bet they have a permit for it.

He's handling himself very well so far.

I'm sorry.

I'm sorry, Captain.

There's a loop coming in.

It's where he's going.

Captain, did you think of that?

Maybe get Dean's papers tomorrow.

Yes, sir.

How is that move being made, Al?

We just... Well, the Attorney General's office has put a man down.

And it's been asked to move back and forth between that office and the prosecutor's office.

Prosecutor's office has the papers?

Yes.

They've got the papers?

No, they don't have the papers.

They have the key to the strong box.

Or the safe deposit.

Well, have they seen the papers?

Nobody's seen the papers.

We haven't looked at it.

Those papers belong here.

They belong here.

As far as we know now, they make what they make unless there's a compromise.

Take a look to see what character the papers.

And if they're, uh, they're not governed and not licensed on that line, he might make a room to judge them.

I suppose the papers, if they have all of Dean's memoranda, what are they?

We shouldn't.

We have to stand firm because the count and the presidency can't run in the future with this kind of challenge to us.

We can get only the testicles.

And if they ask us... Well, we could take them case by case.

There were such a funny place.

But we'll be in the doctor's office.

There'll be.

Well, boy, this is a hard day.

Yes, sir.

We'll fight to the fight.

Yes, sir.