Nixon & Haig on Watergate and John Dean

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Oh, 100 million last minute.

Yes, sir, it works.

I've been with Chaffee now for about an hour.

He just can't take this long full time.

Right.

Really, it's a personal reason, but he wouldn't want you to know.

He has to do his thing.

Okay.

Second thing is he offered a man, he offered to stay with us and to come in and consult.

Right.

He mentioned that Johnny Byrne, who is a former representative of Wisconsin.

Yes.

Who's just coming to town and is with a law firm.

He thought she might know him and have confidence in him.

I know him well.

He's excellent.

Then if you would agree, I could make a contact and see if you would be available for it.

I'll talk to Bryce also.

What's Bryce like about John Burns?

He likes John Burns, except he's technically weak, he said, because he hasn't practiced for 20 years.

He's very good at knowing the politics of Washington.

He knows the Congress.

Just awful hard to bring in a man and have to teach him the whole day.

The chap is, uh, goddamn good.

He is so smart about everything.

He doesn't even know he's running into this damn Senate.

I mean, in five minutes he peeled away from all the problems.

He doesn't care.

Well, gosh.

We just gotta, gotta have something to handle that idiot problem.

How do we, how do we get it back?

Well, we had, we had 30 days.

Do you really think so?

Yes.

Can we get away with 30 days?

We've got 10 days for sure.

10 days for sure and the 30 days.

And it ought to be the Attorney General who moves in and makes a motion to block this.

Well, I think that's true, too.

I think that's what we have to do.

But he mustn't, I suppose, get into that in his confirmation.

We've got to get it confirmed first.

The Attorney General has got to move in and block this out of the legislature.

And it's tough because the two-thirds vote of the committee, if you've got a frustration, we don't want a frustration in the Congress as such that they can't see that the course of justice is going to be served in the other channel.

It's going to be taken on a number of ways.

We've just got to form this team

to deal with this.

Because every time you go, come down the pipe, there's a little twist to it.

It requires a good careful assessment.

Well, all right.

So we start with Len.

And Moore is good on the PR side.

He's excellent.

I appreciate it.

There's one young lawyer that Len has who's

martyr yes not very spectacular he's not bad though not so bad he's all right

Well, I don't know, bringing Johnny Burns, could we get Chappie come in from time to time?

Yes.

I agree that Chappie part-time is better than trying to get Johnny Burns in full-time.

Is he willing to do that?

Yes, he's willing to come in.

He just can't make it on time.

Yeah, we could bring a man up from the department if he wanted.

We could rely on him.

Maybe the defense department counsel is a hell of a competent guy.

Bazaar.

He's a competent guy.

He's kept nowhere to float for the last four years on a number of tricky ones.

Very tough ones.

Maybe that's the answer.

I've got great confidence in Bizarre.

He's a hard-working...

He knows the town, he knows the hill.

Let's try.

I'd rather take her.

Take her?

A known quantity.

I guess Johnny Ernst is the final congressman.

The person who ran the line and so forth.

I just don't think, I don't think he could get into it.

I'd have to spend too much time on it, too much.

So, could you get it bizarre or just borrow it?

I'll just take it.

Take it.

All right.

These first clients.

Let's bring him and say, you just get a man that you can work with and so you can cram yourself in this damn thing.

Now, incidentally, I do think we should continue to consult with Rogers on my...

I just talked to him.

Yeah.

He said, don't, whatever you do, put Casey in the CIA.

Okay.

But we already decided that.

He called me earlier then.

He's...

He's delighted.

Fine.

That's good.

He apparently had a couple of better yesterday on the rest of them.

Casey did?

Not really bad.

She doesn't?

Not as desirable as we'd like.

Okay.

Let's go buzzer.

Incidentally, the only reason I suggested keeping the bill is that it's a... His judgment is usually pretty good at this sort of thing.

It's much better than the four of them all seem to go together.

I just don't know how much you want me in it.

That's the point.

I guess I ought to start sitting with you.

No, sir.

Again, I'm afraid if I do, I'll just get... You know, I've got to...

The more I think about it, I've got to keep...

Above everything else, I have to keep...

a certain incompetence of spirit in my soul so that I could reflect it to people.

That's right.

And if I don't want our staff to run into you every time there's a bad day, I move them out.

The day is fine, but goddammit, they were half-cocked there.

And I hadn't often thought of that.

When you're bothered at all, it's because you have to be.

And no other reason.

And that's what I thought about this.

About the fact that he could get it to be granted again.

And yet, there's still some time.

There was plenty of time.

You know what I think?

I think that before he puts out his damn story, we ought to put it on ourselves.

That's another part of the strategy.

In other words, if we get his papers, you know what the hell they are.

That's right.

That action's taking place tomorrow, and we'll see what the ruling will be tomorrow.

I'm getting those papers.

That has to go before Soroka, doesn't it?

He might not have enough money.

I don't think so.

I think he had an unbelievable amount of money.

Give me the one that reported the fee.

How did the story get out, Alvin?

He did have the papers in the safe.

Did he say so?

He said so.

He said, I'm turning over the key to a safe deposit box.

the government secure security of us five days.

Well, he probably was charging that over because he thinks it's a damage to us, don't you think?

Why did he want that?

You have to know.

Yeah, I guess you're right.

You just have to know.

It might even be better to see what we've got there.

To counter it.

Maybe just put the

Yeah, and probably putting them out would probably be a vicious thing.

Maybe better though than having to aim for it out of the Senate, but you can leave them out.

You've got to prevent this Senate action.

You just cannot.

You cannot win.

Yes, I agree.

We can't let the center go forward with Dean while the grand jury's going forward.

I don't see a chance.

He said, God, he said that nine times out of ten, the chances are he will never accept that jury.

Because while on the surface it looks very good, he is still liable for everything else he testifies to that can be corroborated by other sources so people can do the prosecutor's work for them.

Well, as long as it can be approved and filed in his testimony, he's liable.

But has he already accepted it?

No, he has not accepted it.

And they haven't served notice on the Attorney General of what they're doing, so the 10-day clock hasn't started yet.

So it's not anywhere near as bad as it was supposed to be today in terms of time.

And that's what I don't want to happen to you.

You've got so much to worry about and to work on.

We've got to keep people from...

I tell you, I'm going to be anxious to get those, if we can't get those damn documents and see what the hell, what the shit is.

And it's an M.A.

Let's just suppose it's the worst.

Don't worry about it.

We'll figure it out.

We know it's going to be bad.

From what he's already said, the crap that he put on him this week.

We can always take everything he's eating in the head with me and twist it and turn it.

Right?

And that's fine.

We don't take it on.

We're going to beat the son of a bitch.

But we have to do it.

And I just don't know.

I just don't want me to have to do it.

The idea of, I mean, like, Joe Brown, he's going, well, people aren't going to suggest that, like, tomorrow, or the next day, I didn't go on national television and injure John Dean.

Absolutely not.

I can't do that.

No.

I think you want to really destroy this office.

Have me out there fighting John Dean.

Somebody else has got to fight him.

That's right.

That's exactly right.

And it's not your task to do that.

It's the practice of the military.

We'll work out a way that's why we'll get this thing grooving and get a beef up our capability with a real tough guy who operates.

It works.

I think Buzzard would be good if we get him over into it right away.

I agree.

If we get Rose for every hour he can get in.

That's right.

See, they can prepare if he can come in when there's a dispute.

You mean that you can't get him out of it?

Yes, at the end they have.

He said he's not too good for this purpose because he's primarily a laborer.

He doesn't forget it.

Again, as a matter of fact, I'm a champion, too.

He said he's a laborer.

Well, I wish I knew another name.

It's unfair to be President of the United States and got that White House under assault and not have a name.

Yeah, don't we know?

Having been through the Dean operation, for Christ sakes, that's what you can pick here.

Now with Buzzard, you've got a guy that you know that is loyal and everything.

I'm going to take a loyal guy and put him to work on it.

And a smart guy.

And a smart guy and a loyal guy.

And somebody that is not on the outside.

And when you really have the inside, I think that's the best thing you can do.

We may develop a roadblock here, but I don't want to smoke it out right now.

Just think we'd like it here in the United States.

You know, we can put it in defense.

That's what I'm talking about.

See, we had Bob and John earlier, and earlier his mind was very good.

He had a strategy to work with us.

See, we don't have a good, soft, mature lawyer around right now.

You see, as soon as this guy comes in, he goes right to the heart of it.

Well, you know, you compare it with Garland, right?

Garland is a mature fellow in the way he approaches the business.

He's very stable.

He's useful, useful as hell, but he's excitable and not too balanced.

Now this is the second perfect thing too.

We've got to write it.

Certainly, in a way, before the grand jury, they don't get a presentation paper instead.

No, we just discussed that.

What did John say about that?

He said, that's right.

He said, but remember, as long as you control it, you can decide what to give.

And if you decide that it's to your advantage to give something, fine.

You just don't give it.

It should just make a straight prohibition across the board, which looks like you're getting the stand.

Well, generally, we need to practice, shut down any of the practice unless, you know, the papers will not, just something, you know, we're not buying it.

It's a little fuzzy.

It's fuzzy.

Nixon & Haig on Watergate and John Dean

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on May 8, 1973

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