Nixon & Ziegler on Watergate and John Dean

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Well, we're talking about the three things we've done in the past few years.

Hitting myself and Garmin and getting this other...

were working.

Now, there are some things that are developing on their own here, which we were just talking about there, that we feel we should just let sort of settle in here.

What is that?

Well, this whole thing about people now beginning to say, wait a minute.

It's gone too far.

Oh, yeah.

First Lady's coming.

She's going to play on the wires across the country.

She said, everything's going to be all right.

It really was a soothing comment that moved out.

It was a great quote.

I think

in terms of your brief comments tonight at the opening thing.

Picking up the theme you used in there is very good about what has to be done.

Just about the same thing.

This is a group of honest, decent men.

In other words, don't be specific in terms of defense.

As much as we would like to, that's not the time to do that.

But just the overall comment of the people who are working

As you said it in there, that's a good thing to be said, and we'll get good play, too, and I hope that... Yeah, I suppose we've got to... Well...

But we can't help that.

It's got to... Well, but it's offensive in a way, Mr. President, where you say this is being dealt with,

We've got many things to do.

We're accomplishing many things.

We're going to accomplish many things.

Starting that theme, and then this is a, you know, a little bit, looking at it, I think it's, men and women, I think it's something that might be at least worthwhile considering.

The, uh,

This is part of the meeting.

That's right.

Not what others say about him.

Which would be interesting.

Well, the more I think about our discussion last night, the more we have to at this point.

We have this kind of program that I've got to do it.

He's basically our, we talk about all the things we're on.

and they'll go for the money and they'll go for the cigarette and crap.

But that's all chicken and chip stuff.

You know what I mean?

That is not in the present.

Let's face it.

This guy didn't do anything with any of those.

They all try to say that they've got this and that, but they're not going to have anything.

The big thing, the problem is that he is made by one of them.

the engine approved to be an error, an error to strike the president.

We don't do that in a lot of people.

I should agree.

Yes, I do.

I said no.

However, it's a very great, it's an error, it is an error, and we take advantage of it.

We really got to smash it because it can't be allowed, anybody can be allowed to smash this office.

he's uh really lucky did he know that they don't have to wear those papers no they don't that's right i'll have better work with this dude well you know your point what the hell one of the papers said what he's gonna say that's right

It's just all the others have it on a written form, and it's supposed to be a memorandum of conversation.

I don't even think they're memorandum of conversation.

Maybe they are, but that doesn't matter.

They prove nothing.

I'm sure he can do that.

Do it in a self-serving way.

Could have done it at Camp David.

Manufactured it to fit into his own case.

Well, the whole point is, he might have been out there and testified on it.

That's why I'm not worried about it.

Well, the point is that the other, the real attack on Dean was that you were starting to worry about

But the point is that basically he was lying.

And he was covering up.

And he was participating in that.

And as I said, who just thinks he can kill a snake or something?

I mean, he might have a bunch of jackasses that lead to a whole hell of a lot of stuff.

You might consider, for example, putting out whatever it would be to get these papers, whatever the goddamn papers are, putting all the whole goddamn thing on their shelves.

Sure.

You know, I mean, I don't mean personally, but putting out this story just to magnify, to please and devastate the man, I don't know, maybe that isn't a good idea.

But my own view is I wouldn't let the nation unbeaten bread.

Well, the one thing I can say

And he said, I told him that the president should be very sure, be very free to talk about it, and then he said, well, the president, he said, well, the one problem is that they have

conversation to me.

Well, now, there, in Garment, apparently, she had the impression that one of them had given out.

Well, you see, that's not true.

That is not true.

That is an incorrect statement to you.

Lynn Garment, from the very beginning, Mr. President, has always said there can be no presidential papers given out.

Well, maybe it's the definition of papers.

I said, Bob, any papers prepared by a member of the White House today

Johnson had them all picked up after meetings, you know what I mean?

All these things are not to be taken the hell out of here.

Henry Kissinger's got loads of stuff.

I have a separate file that I keep mine in, which the day I leave goes right to the library.

Absolutely.

And if I ever want to, you know, use it to put material of recollection...

and then you came in and then dave came here and my guess is you go back and check that what that is

that actually that happened was the day that I went to the Marine.

Yeah.

I remember my conversation with you on that day.

What was it?

Because I came in here and Kissinger was coming back from a trip.

Oh.

And you were going up to Camp David.

And I think Kissinger was coming in to Camp David.

Then it wasn't about the trip.

No.

I see.

In other words, that was the day Kissinger came back from one of his trips

and he was going to meet you, and you said to go out and tell the press, you know, about Kissinger's meeting.

But your mind, your thought process was on foreign policy.

It was on the... That's why I must, as I said to Bob, I said, Bob, I said, just, I said, tell me about it.

He says he doesn't even ever remember him coming to the Olympics.

In any of this stuff, I don't remember the many meetings that I have come to that were minuscule in terms of... You don't recall all of those things from three, four years ago.

There's no way to.

We don't recall them.

The president recalled the people of Compton and Wood.

Oh, of course.

That's why the people of Compton and Wood, we didn't have the slightest idea about them.

I'm sorry to mention, but he didn't say anything.

Did he say that he was involved in the diet of the guys today?

Not a thing.

Or he may have, in terms of the thrust of his investigation, he could have even in the course of that said none of the White House people were involved and you had total confidence in the fact that he was conducting an investigation.

And secondly, I'll say that again.

Sure.

Well, I can say that too and I

For God's sake, I would never have said no one in the White House was involved unless somebody had told me that.

You know that.

I asked Hall, and he said, no, nobody was involved.

And basically, earlier in the course, Hall, when he said, I don't mean, you know, I'd ask, remember the line, we all said that, that no one in the White House was involved.

That was our constant line.

It was Dean's line.

Archie didn't think enough about Archie.

He said, well, you know,

all the wagons around the White House, you know, or something like that.

That was the line.

Right.

Well, it was all of that.

Because it was Mitchell who said, well, that's where he did mine.

That's where I screwed.

God damn it, he knows that.

Well, this will pass.

Yes, sir.

This attempt to, I agree with you, this attempt to drag that president down, is that he knew about this plan and prepared a ship.

I mean, I mean, coverage.

It doesn't use the word participate and so forth.

It isn't just, I mean, you don't need to worry about it.

It's a knowledge you've got to lead up because it's participated or authorized or so forth.

Or aware.

See, in other words, awareness of a cover-up.

Now, what does it mean?

That means to me, and it means to any logical thinking person, that you are not aware of a process to cover up a story or a process to pay hush money.

But that doesn't matter.

March the 21st is when you begin.

Just like this other story.

But not of Dean's involvement.

You sensed his involvement.

No, that's right.

I was aware of the fact that they wanted money.

That's right.

That's all.

But that's not participating in the cover-up.

Now, just like this...

Well, but that was part of it.

Now, just like this matter in terms of the Ellsberg burglary and the national security thing, this New York Times story yesterday, as I recall that, in other words, that you had asked not to have the information on national security go to the trial, as I recall that, that was raised with you.

not in specific terms of the Ellsberg Burglary, but it was raised with you by Peterson, I think, in terms of providing information to the

I did not say that Berger had anything to do with that.

I said that his question was, was any of that information furnished to the prosecution?

Is it in the hands of the prosecution?

And I said, no.

As I understand it, the investigation conducted by my level produced nothing.

Now, that is a total concurrency.

Your call, please.

I have a comment.

And then after that conversation, then after this conversation, you met with the attorney general who said that they felt this material had to go to them.

And they had conducted, they had for 10 days conducted an investigation.

He met with me, and he said, we have conducted an investigation, and we have found that they did do a murder.

You know,

we feel that we should inform the judge.

And I said, I should be the one that's in direction to inform the judge so that there's no possibility that this be brought up at a later time.

And I want the judge to be aware of it during the trial, before the trial, and Jesus Christ, the record's clear there.

But the point is, I did not know.

And the third point is, they existed.

The information that they have

was this camera game.

Yeah.

Which they had, understand, they twice did that.

The prosecution had a camera.

They got back to the CIA, they had a roll of film, they had a picture of Hunt, and they got that picture.

That's what that is all about, but understand, that isn't the president holding information for the prosecution.

This is evidence.

They didn't give that to the prosecution either.

But Peterson's case to me, they say that, that I, you know, my recollection is that I, that I met him around the conversation.

My conversation was that he could go to anything except National Security.

I informed him that there had been a National Security investigation conducted by him in the Pentagon Papers matters.

And he asked me a question on the name of the information.

he said that's very good that's good glad to know that that is what the conversation was and then at a later time

Now, that's the case, right?

Right.

But let me say, in your attention, and then we'll weigh it.

That's a, I guess it's a, well, it's hard to deal with.

Well, I'm good.

I don't even think I'll get into it.

I just, if I'm asked a question at the briefing, I'm going to say, gentlemen.

I said, this trial's going on.

This trial's going on.

I'm going to consider it.

I think you've got to say this trial is going on.

And don't draw any conclusions.

I didn't source stories.

Yeah.

They say they have a source in the Justice Department that says that Biden said they could not go into the... What is the Times trying to say?

They're just trying to...

It's not that big of a deal.

They're just simply saying that at one point, there's an indication that the president did not want national security matters to be discussed, which is...

True, true.

In this case.

Okay.

In this matter.

But I didn't...

but i didn't but as far as the elsewhere cases i didn't i cooperated totally on getting whatever information i hope peter stands up

I just said because he felt that his record was very different than actually my record.

I said, no.

It may be that there's a time for pictures.

Okay.

I can call him.

Yeah, I'm going to get him.

Call me and tell him to talk to me.

I don't see where they're going.

Peterson's temperature is up to 30, huh?

Hold on.

Okay.

Or do you want to go with me?

Yeah, whatever you'd like to do.

I can call Peterson about 10.30.

All right, do it right now.

I'll go in on the reason for the accident, Vincent.

Okay, good.

All right, Vincent.

I'll do it right now.

Call me back.

Yes, sir.

Yeah, man.

Okay, good

Nixon & Ziegler on Watergate and John Dean

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on May 9, 1973

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