Conversation 915-001

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See you.

Oh, hi, how are you?

I'm fine, sir.

Well, I'll give you this one.

Thank you.

Just fine.

I feel very good, thank you.

Tom?

Did you receive the notice?

They're really going through an orgy.

Well, bring your house if you're going to get us.

You know, but you can't do it.

I think the whole goddamn thing is just plain nauseating.

And I think most Americans do.

You can't do it.

It's too cracking now.

It's too clear.

You get these clowns.

When they go through something about a man who's investigating leaks, gets cables, and that looks like a crime, you say,

On the other hand, who gets the cable, Steve, is the hero.

He's the hero, yeah.

It's just plain crazy wrong.

But this requires a return to balance, and it'll come.

Well, as you say, we'll have our time.

I'm so glad that that thing came up yesterday, last evening.

I had to talk to him.

I'd like to have Buzzard just see him on Saturday.

If you could just tell Buzzard to go out and get a job.

I also think we could have Buzzard see Colson.

Point out close to him, sir.

I don't know what the hell the situation is on this day.

That's right.

I don't see him coming.

Yeah.

Whether it's a friend, sir, or an enemy, it's very, very bad.

I don't know what it is.

Sir, is there anything I can do for you?

You must receive this.

No, no, no.

I was bugging you, sir.

Uh, any of this stuff is just... You see, the point is, Haldeman says that there is a legal question on this paper to deal with, and he says that

I think it'd be better to be prudent on it.

I don't think we want Colson to, we want Colson to deliver back.

No, no, no, no.

That's, that's a goddamn lie.

No, you know, as far as holding on to Colson, and then holding on to Dreyfus, Dreyfus means just, uh, without a gun.

They have theirs here.

And there'll be no change on that.

And there can be no give on Dreyfus on that.

No, I don't.

I frankly think, as I've told you, that once the czar gets a handle on this thing, that it's very manageable.

I really think it is.

They said this morning that I heard one newscaster that Dean has in no way, investigators have said Dean has in no way...

implicated the president.

Investigators said that.

And I just... Well, you know, I have told you about that.

I'm curious about it.

I'm curious about that very exhaustive, very important conversation, personally, because I wanted you to know that.

But basically, I'm going to work again with all of them, and I'm going to...

He said, yes, difficult.

He said, it would be difficult if the conversation were written up on Dean.

So he said, the point is that what you were doing was, what we were doing, both of us, we were saying, now what the hell do you have in mind?

He said, they want this blackmail.

And how do we, what would it cost?

If it was over four years, then you'd have to have clemency.

Well, you can't get that.

You have to get away to get the money.

And it's wrong.

That was the conversation we got through, and it wasn't the name of John.

See, there was also a property attraction that Mitchell was trying to, uh, uh, that, uh, what was Mitchell doing, you know, that he didn't want to raise money for, for his mansion.

And Dean had already talked to Mitchell about the same problem.

Dean had.

Because Dean is the one that's the legally involved, right?

He doesn't stand.

Mitchell said he...

But you see, we didn't do anything.

And I said it was wrong.

Which Dean may not have, but Hope has a fantastic memory about things that matter.

So there it is.

So I'm not going to be bothered about that.

That's Dean's job.

He wants to be used, but he's in a position where he's got to decide whether he wants to indicate his own involvement in something.

The point of it all, Al, was that he, the whole conversation was, he said, here are the problem areas.

For example, Hunt.

Hunt is trying to blackmail Early because of the things Early did in the Hummer operation.

He's going to kill some of those guys.

See, that's...

I really think... That's my sort of investigation.

I didn't do anything.

I didn't do absolutely nothing.

In particular, what we have here, they call them an inch.

Makes sense.

If I had been alone, if I had been alone, I would have had all the time.

Are you going to answer that?

But, uh, all of them were there.

All of them knocked his brains out.

Tell me if you have any questions about that.

All of them will have a problem then.

However, in the beginning, and it's one thing we've got to work out with regard to concentrations of these revenues, because we, in that instance, on a specific basis, would waive the revenue.

That's right.

My view is that if you don't, I think that in oral conversations, we should have a rule we would waive in specific areas rather than on this laying down general guidelines whereby

It's totally, it's totally, you know, I mean, it should be totally with regard to comments, with regard to other conversations with the president, that if there's, on matters involving any information which could lead to apprehension of illegal activities, then the president, on a case-by-case basis, would be weighed, you see.

I think it's fine.

I don't think we should articulate it.

I think we should say, of course, we're going to be flexible winners.

I would say something along the lines of, yes, we'll be flexible.

That's the way we do it.

It's really a concern, and I think rightfully so.

God damn it, that guy's a paper tricker.

Now, I'm talking about what everything in this office.

I'm not talking about things that are illegal or that affect you.

very great, concerned his psychiatric problems and his women problems and his this and that and the other thing.

Now that, if you ever get a lot of speakers, somebody going through or getting them out, if you don't think that it's gonna be a charity, then it'll make us a laughing stock in the world.

We can't do that.

So,

Well, one of the things I was going to suggest was, as a matter of fact, I don't think Buzzard should be in the meeting today.

Right.

Due to the fact we're not in the economy.

I just don't think it's good to have him there.

I think he just said that he's not a senior staff member, right?

Also, I think he should get to work on Elliott.

I'm on Elliott.

Is there anything at all that we can do on that?

Do you have any thoughts regarding this?

I had one other thought with regard to a name, Tracy.

That is, the former governor immediately asked the president of the government association to serve.

Hurt.

Work.

Lawyer.

He's pardoned himself.

He's chosen.

But I think it would be patriotic.

Because it seems that Elliot's whole thing is tied into the whole business of whether to defend a prosecutor or not.

But the point that I make is that if you talk about defending a prosecutor, to whom the hell does he report?

He's got to report to somebody.

That's right.

Well, of course, he took a strong stand on that yesterday.

He said he wouldn't want the job if the man didn't report to him.

And that's good.

That's right.

Actually, we could add, if they didn't clear Elliot, I don't think he'd be any use of Secretary of Defense.

He wouldn't have been a vote of no confidence.

He wouldn't.

This committee is just out of hand.

These bastards are out of hand.

And we've got to apply some reason to them.

But you should.

Yes.

I'm sure it's just a handful of guys on Elliot.

My God, what is the matter with these women?

What's the matter with our guys on there, right?

You see, here's where you have some witness on the image shop.

It isn't just basically having people to back him up.

You need a stronger man at the top to go down there and work with those people.

Also, be able to get a little Rogers on us and then go to the chapter.

No, sir.

No, I was with you, and then he ran to the dinner one time when I got back.

I'm calling to him right now.

No, I think he's... Yeah, no, he's comfortable.

It's a little shattering when a man's integrity is questioned, especially in that kind of a situation.

So I think we were a little shaken yesterday.

But man, not discouraged, just man.

I'm confident that he's going to get through.

It'll be later than we thought.

Buzzard will work on Stenison.

I don't know whether that's a...

He has greater confidence in Stenison's ability to whirl a Senate around than I have, but it's worth a wait.

It's worth getting his counsel.

We'll see what hand he takes to go on it.

Yeah, I must say, that sounded a little... Like Stenison's a little stronger than I thought it would be.

I don't see him.

We may just face it that way.

It's going to happen.

It's going to be all right, too.

Why don't you...

The other options theory that we took is not without some validity.

The other option is not without some validity.

I think we were forced to have it.

You mean to just go out to then fight in the public arena?

Yeah.

And we had a PR operation.

And then every time one of the witnesses said something,

The point is that there's going to be a goddamn deal involving the president.

As you see, some of them will call him.

Call him what's not.

Make him listen to him.

Burn him as a crime, too.

And they've all said it, and basically the reason they're saying it now is that it's totally true.

Because it's true?

That's it.

You know how Bob makes such a square?

Well, it helps to secure us of a body, but where it comes from, it's very awful.

But, uh...

That's why we haven't got any reason to be.

Well, the point is we've got to be, but we are not.

You and I, Bob, have got to be strong as we can be in terms of our, you know, when people come in and start, you know, babbling around about your resignation, impeachment, and the rest.

I think that we've got to fight for rights where it needs to be.

That's one.

That's what I think we've got to operate with.

If I were the most sort of son of a bitch in the world, everything would be coming out.

But it isn't anything like that.

That's what my major concern is.

I think a lot of people think this thing is worse than it is.

And it's just sheer nonsense.

And it's even permeated

some of our staff, and some of the cabinet.

Now, yesterday we started knocking this out.

Yes, sir, I think your speech last night was confident, and that's the way we ought to be.

You know, this is just insanity, and these guys have got to understand this goddamn thing.

But he was much of a help anyway.

And if Warren were to get that faculty bridge and say, there's a hell of a law, and he would be highly respected.

I have two other comments.

You might get the beef going on where they always got it.

You remember your friend Sullivan?

Yes, sir.

But Sullivan is supposed to be very pertinent about some of the very tricks that Johnson and so forth did.

You know?

I mean, I think we love each other.

Tell me.

You get Sullivan and say, I'm over here.

We're getting bad.

We want to know everything you've got about Johnson and Bobby Kennedy.

We're trying to do it.

I was thinking of this as something as a counter-attack.

I'd hand it in.

I wouldn't talk to Sullivan directly, but I'd hand it in.

You should have.

If he prepared it.

Well, I don't know where it is.

I heard it from Jamie.

He's a pretty careful guy.

I don't think he ever put anything down.

Well, anyway, I think he can't do it.

Maybe he's not there.

Well, I mean, I've known him for years and years.

So then you can say, let me hear it right now.

I wish he was a bad guy.

Ask him until you're aware of anything.

Seems to me the Ellsberg story on Hoover, you know, sometimes I get out.

Of course, I might have seen the Ellsberg story.

As you know, it's just a hard for me why they hit me.

I didn't do that thing with him.

You know, when I tell it to me, you realize why, don't you?

I realize why.

That's right.

And why do we have to do it here?

I mean, they hadn't been very particularly confident in that at work anyway.

Oh, you're right.

Hoover was not equal to anybody else.

He did not want to prosecute him.

I just wanted to tell you, though, let's, let's, uh, let's really be the hard-hider, pal.

The more I think about it, I have these same ways of saying what the hell is me.

I've got a lockbox, all right?

I don't care what the hell I've got in the lockbox.

You know?

But we've got to mention to the men of Congress what the hell he had here.

And instead it's going to be bad.

But on the other side, it's too pathetic.

But we've got to remember we've got a hell of a lot of good witnesses up there that are going to say that Dean is a liar.

And he has been lying, too.

Been lying to his teeth.

He's got one conflict.

We don't remember any recollection of the conversation of what the hell it was about.

I mean about what he went into.

My guess is that we just said, well, they didn't die.

They went to the trial, went to me, and that sort of thing.

But that's just as well.

That's fine.

He put his story out on the army.

He said we were pleased.

Right.

Yeah, he's putting out the story.

That's the matter.

You say there were some, where you see this, where some investigator said that, was it a leak out of some place in the column?

It was only...

You didn't have any way of advocating?

Yes, I had.

This was on the news this morning.

You know, they have that news station that I heard.

I was shaving.

Investigators had said.

Well, we'll fight it out.

We'll fight it out.

We'll just stay tough and confident because that's what we need here.

and then get both of them out there and see the Senate right away.

I don't know what else you could do on the Senate area.

There must be somebody else to work on that.

We'll have to look at it.