Nixon, Haig & Trudeau on Watergate and CIA

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President, we have an equal location on Bay 30.

Walters was called back by Schlesinger from his trip to the Far East about CIA involvement with the White House, primarily as a dean.

Walters came in to me and gave me eight memcons.

And the meeting here was held in an early July of last year, and a series of subsequent meetings

Gray, and Dean.

When I read them, I thought they were quite damaging to us.

I said, what are you doing with these, and where are they?

He said, such as you have ordered them, take them over and deliver a copy to me and a copy to the Attorney General.

So I immediately called Bazaar, and we both read it.

He said, these papers can't go anywhere.

He sent them back to the agency.

So I'm not taking any telephone calls.

They turned to me and they went every copy.

These are bio-nationals.

They cannot go anywhere.

What did they deal with?

They deal with these efforts to get a CIA cover for the War Gate.

but what did what were calling early trying to do it colin and early's discussion was in the direction of hamming walters go directly to the attorney general to director the fbi and tell him that this involved national security matters and

that it had gone far enough, and it was getting wide, and soon to get into CIA business, Mexican money.

And the war was refused, and he kept saying, that's right, he kept saying, you're going to drag the president into this this way.

You are going to, and I will love the appliance.

That's right.

So then he went to Gray.

They told him to go to Gray.

He did, and he had just arrived over at the...

Because they told him that it was involving the CIA, and he hadn't had a chance to check, and he did exactly what he was told.

He went to Greg, and Greg said, no, I don't know if there's CIA involvement.

You better check that.

But he also quoted a discussion he had with you within the MENACOM, which isn't helpful for our purposes.

So the Waldorf?

No, Greg didn't.

They said, I called the president and told him to do it.

This case was bad and involved.

People high up in the White House, and we should clean house.

It's a jar.

Jar?

Yeah.

Well, you didn't mention a name.

At least, I always do the right thing.

Yeah.

Then there were subsequent numerous contacts by me going in there.

What did you say I said?

That's right.

And this is all.

But I'll tell you, we'll survive.

But if I hear a call, I will always remember.

Well, I agree.

And then I want to tell you, Kissinger just left.

He's going over to CV.co.

He'll be announced today in Paris next week.

And as soon as he gets back, I'll have you be sure that you get a report, because I know your decision on this thing is imminent.

And that way, we'll have a better fix on whether or not to let you know how the thing's done.

But we do appreciate what you've done, and I'll be totally posted on his Facebook.

they uh then the subsequent men cons are approach after approach by being july and august to try to get the cia to put these defendants under cia mantle uh including uh yes this is dean including telling uh

to this day.

He called me.

Now, I called him because I told

And then other men come.

I told him.

He was impressed.

So, but in any event, it's very, these things are very damaging to me.

Yeah.

Now, Walrus is very clean.

He flatly views each time.

But why are they damaging to all men, aren't they?

A little bit.

A little bit, yeah.

except for the way Walters transcribes what Gray said.

But he's got that in the MemCon.

He's got it in the MemCon.

Now, I've got it all in the MemCon, and he's on his way back, and he's going to get into Bazaar.

These MemCons cannot get out under any circumstances.

Right.

Now, I've called Schlesinger, and I've told him that Bazaar would be in touch with him, but that we are...

reviewing these memcons for executive privilege due to the whole broad character of them.

He said, I understand completely.

And I said, now the next thing Bazar says, we have to do.

And I put him, I said, you immediately get in touch with Bob Sawyer and John Sawyer and tell them about this and be sure they know what we're doing.

Then after we make the assessment of the discussion with Bob and John,

We are going to tell Walters to go over to Petership and say, the agency's been under attack here.

I've been called back.

I'm prepared to testify.

All right.

Now, Walters is very good.

I need your guidance on that.

All right.

So what about the wiretaps?

You spoke to me about this.

Yeah, exactly.

Now, the FBI has gotten to a point where the trial in California, of course, is going to be mistrial.

We want it to be quicker than that.

Yeah.

It can't go any other way.

Right.

And that's going to go with it for gas.

That's right.

So we have the option now.

If Byrne has asked for the reports on the wiretap on Ellsberg, don't get him.

The FBI has found out that they have come.

They are going to see where the papers are.

They've asked to see me.

Now, these papers are clear executive privilege.

National security.

But we do want to consider the fact that

Henry won't like this, but I do.

Of Gettysburg, the one report on Ellsberg and Helton shows the character of these sons of bitches.

And if he doesn't leak it, then we'll get it out.

And we'll do that on the basis that...

All this national security not following this matter.

That's what bizarre is all

Oh, that's good.

Approval of the attorney general.

Approve some unruly acts, one led to another.

During this investigation, he went in my bureau.

There have been leaks of this information before the investigation is completed.

And among those was this man in this shot.

Tell him.

Fire his hands.

Now that, we'll have to investigate with the honor of the man.

Let the number go, and then say what morons.

And if we fire him and discredit him, everything he says from there on is going to be...

Right.

If you're not going to solve the issue, you fire him.

Yes.

I haven't talked to him, but I got that in direct.

Yeah.

Way to play the game.

Look, Al were playing on this.

I know.

I didn't play on this thing.

I didn't do anything about this CIA thing.

This was a big flop, apparently.

Oh, yeah.

He took the thing up and apparently dropped a hole in it early on it.

I'll bet you that they didn't remember.

I kept saying, you are going to drag the president into this kind of thing.

You must get me a written instruction.

He never got it.

Which, if so facto, proves that Dean was operating on his own.

He never had anything for me to write.

Never had anything.

Never had anything that he could say.

The president wants this.

The president is behind this.

He doesn't even drag, according to Walter's father, John.

John is a little...

He's in more trouble than Bob is.

How is John?

Well, of course, he apparently was the man that was talking about the trial, getting the investigations left out in the meeting that Bob and John had.

You know, the thing's getting too wide.

But I've turned them over because they involved a lot

Bazaar says he doesn't think they'll ask because Walrus is so good and so quick and he'll have his calendar.

Yes.

So he moves his calendar, which he'll say.

And also he recalls everything.

Walrus says, I recall everything because I can't, my notes, whatever notes he calls, I made some notes which are secure.

They do involve other covert activities and so forth that I cannot bear.

having nothing but his calendar.

No, let me say, trying to make an answer to all that, this is not all that.

This is one thing where we've got to fight.

This may be what we're looking for.

If we can get that tape out, there's going to be anyone that doesn't say, well, look at these two shits.

No wonder.

Why would Henry not want your calendar?

Well, Halpern worked for him.

Screw that.

Does he mention Henry in the tape?

I don't think so.

Well, I don't know.

Buzzard better see the tape.

Right.

And then we make the final decision.

You never saw the tape?

Seriously?

I saw it.

You don't remember?

Well, I remember.

Why don't you let Buzzard see the tape?

And Buzzard should look on it.

And let's look out, let's leave her.

We want to build a patriotic... Now, as I get hurt, I'm sure Richardson doesn't get hurt with all this.

I would say, you know, this is not... Richardson's not cleared yet.

He shouldn't be getting these papers.

Richardson is... That's right.

That's fine.

Not anymore.

We can do one Richardson.

Here's the tape right here.

Where'd he get it?

Yes, it was in the, it was the tape involving me, involving an investigation of a member of the National Security Council staff.

God damn it, let's just put it that way.

He was leaving.

Put it that way and put the son of a bitch out.

Now it's not, I don't care what it says in there about Henry or anything else.

Put it out like that.

who was later, was he discharged, allowed to resign.

He was, yeah.

Reforced, man.

Yeah.

Who, frankly, was relieved of his position as a result.

Relieved of his position.

Okay.

Second point.

With regard to the other thing, Walters is going to testify.

See, we ought to take the initiative on that.

Now, Walters is one of Walters' men.

the Peterson ongoing preparation of the case.

Oh, of the Ellsberg case.

Yes.

Oh, because he wants to interrogate voters for the Ellsberg case.

He has to ask.

What I'm saying is what we're doing is the White House.

He's volunteering.

Right.

Take the initiative.

The line's going to lead right to him.

We know that.

Yeah.

Okay.

Fine.

It's known over in CIA that he was the guy called over here.

But if we take the initiative, we brought him right back when his name was submitted.

You take the initiative to have Walters over and see Ray.

I mean, see that.

Now, when I come through that, I'm told, because I already have success with Bob Sawyer and John Sawyer, and they know the strategy and what we're going to do, and they know what Walters has.

I don't think Walter's ever talked to me about it.

But our problem is to be sure how Bob and John are going to describe the purpose of the meeting in July.

What meeting?

With Walter.

See, they called Walter's over.

Bob and John together.

In July.

It's quite important.

Yeah.

They know that this is going to happen.

It wasn't.

Yeah.

We know.

how they are going to testify.

And that they should both, frankly, they've done to describe it as being a meeting of... Because Walter's telling me that it was his men who indicated that Bob, John, cooked up the scene and told Dean to carry it out.

Would that be the deal?

If you read these papers, yes, if you read these papers, you would get that impression.

The first big meeting was the first time Walters was exposed was to sit in front of John and Bob.

Yes.

And he was told to go over and get the grade to tone down the investigation.

Because of the essay?

Yes.

Well, John's reaction to that could be very well that he was concerned about something from the things that he had been investigating.

Now, that's perfectly proper.

You know, I mean, you're pulling it down to the arms of those, of that.

That's right.

And a hundred and a million times they're running around over the CIA and Walrus cut them off because he was asking for things that were not right.

Right.

So what is John's reaction to that?

I'm sure you've reported on it.

It should be very simple.

His only interest was in the fact that he didn't want

All right, second, does the Walters, is the Walters MemCom uneducated?

In other words, that's kind of what Dean is going to say, is do you think Dean's got these MemComs on him?

No one has.

Walters has never had a MemCom on him.

No one has.

And Walters believes his MemComs here on what ground?

He just says that he brought them over because they contained a lot of national security funds and...

Well, with a very vague reference made by Dean to Walters, which sort of suggested that there were the grounds for putting these guys on the CIA.

I see.

Well, the point is, who the hell do you think was the culprit?

Do you think maybe it was Bob and John?

Well... No, I don't think so at all.

The best way to track it is to cook the goddamn thing up with Walters.

Just cook it.

I don't know about John, but Bob I'm sure answered.

But that's another thing that we have to be very careful of.

We have to know where John stands.

That's why I don't want to move on any of this.

He's generally a little, in any case, he's made a lot of strategies to do.

Well, let me, let me point this out.

When are you going to have a meeting with Bob and John?

Are you going to have a second one?

Yes, he's trying to get their lawyer right now.

That's the first sense of urgency to find that out.

Because the FBI called.

The FBI is going to see them tonight.

Huh?

The FBI is going to see Bob and John at 5 tonight.

About this thing?

No, not about this, but about those tapes.

And we've got to know how to play that one, too.

So we've got to coordinate all.

They're all linked.

Along the case, it was argued that the play-hose was still in and he was purely the test of his luck.

Absolutely.

And it's not the end.

Let's put this one out.

Yeah.

And maybe more of them, then.

Yeah.

If it would serve our purpose.

Yeah.

You'll get Reckleshaus, though, in his specimen.

Reckleshaus should get out of the story right away.

Now, what do you want me to do with Bob and John?

Why don't I get Bob over?

See, I talk to Larry, and I keep Larry cut in.

He throws to Bob right away.

No, I don't know.

Why don't I just get him?

how he describes that meat, it's important that we know.

I don't want to talk to Jonathan because I don't want to get him in the position.

People are trying to say, well, I've got to describe it because if he heard it, that would be the most irresponsible thing.

Let's suppose I had called him and said, look, contact the CIA and get Walters involved.

And I'm totally privileged from the beginning, but beyond that, I took all the firsts wrong.

I did not choose second script.

It's totally privileged.

Third is terribly detrimental.

You can't do that.

You can't do it.

But...

But, John, you see, you may have been thinking of the work that I've done.

Let's see how you agree.

That's right, and that's why they accepted Matthew and Adelaide.

about keeping the investigation from getting out of line.

All right.

Well, again, for my own guidance, what do you want me to tell Bob so that he gets a general point when we talk?

First, you want me to tell him to see Buzzard?

Yes.

Second.

That's important.

Fine.

And tell him that we do have this memcon, which we've gotten a hold of, but Walrus is going to have to hardly testify about it.

That's right.

He will testify.

Well.

Right.

But we can't have any hookers between his testimony and Bob's or John's when this comes out.

They have to be consistent.

He's going to meet with the head of the CIA.

He's going to meet.

And why doesn't Walter's testimony?

We don't know.

They haven't fixed that.

But we intend to have him go over and offer because he came out.

He surfaced yesterday in Gray's testimony.

Why doesn't Walter's

Well, I think that we might have a lot of control over it.

It really doesn't make a lot of difference.

His testimony

and see Mr. Gray again.

Because there was a... Yeah.

Well, I think he just had to say that because there was a CIA, there were, there had been some CIA were gone by some of these in other areas.

That's all.

That's the way he's got to play it.

Out with Walters.

He's played it that way, and then he'd say when he got back to the agency.

They looked into it, uh,

He couldn't find him.

And he then told... No, no, no, no.

I'm referring to this.

John's testimony should be not with the CIA men, but he had...

Walter will not say talk and say that.

Maybe he won't.

He's going to say it's part of his testimony, the fact that... His will be to the effect that he had a discussion with Gray in response to the meeting here.

And then, for Alex, I noticed that after he looked into it, that there was no such...

Well, you know, Greg has got to play it in terms of the fact that he played, it seems to me, that sure, they had him over because of the CIA, because he knew that Honda Guns worked previously with the CIA, and far from that.

Be sure to check that, and to check with Greg on that, that he went back and checked and decided there had been none.

Right, Patrick?

Also, Waldershauer will say emphatically that the President never asked him to do anything, or... Oh, he'll not only say that, but everything he says is going to be the emphasis that it was very evident that you had no knowledge of.

He's going to develop this testimony to confirm that.

A, because that's exactly the way he played it, and it's accurate.

And B, because he knows that it reinforces that position.

Uh...

You know, I had him run by me.

I said, what are you going to say?

He said, well, by God, these men, this dean, kept trying to involve the president.

And I refused to go along.

And dean could never, never, every time he'd come back, he had no evidence of any presidential authority for what he was doing.

And it was a matter of great concern to me, and I kept saying,

You don't want people to see you talking here.

I really don't think you should.

If somebody said that you talked to the president about this...

Better over there I just don't

I still think we're on the way up.

I think we've got a bridge now to get people concerned about the truth I think they should be concerned about.

This thing is just a...

I don't know.

You don't want to ask Bob whether or not it's alright or not.

You're sure there are?

I have authority over that.

Oh, I just wanted to know that we're doing it.

It really is, I think, a very helpful thing to do.

Let me put it this way, Al.

You look at it.

I heard that you read it.

I'm sorry, but don't get it too far.

And then give it to him.

See, that's what I did.

Huh?

That's what I did.

Nixon, Haig & Trudeau on Watergate and CIA

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Also recorded on May 11, 1973

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