Conversation 916-008

Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

That's going to a dinner tonight.

So I thought I was going to dance David dead, you know, late in the afternoon in order to take a swim and so forth.

But I think it's very important that I want to work out the Mother's Day situation, you know, which is fine.

And it should be theirs.

Otherwise, we're going to have to go to church.

Which I don't want to do.

I don't want to bother going to church.

So we do talk with Julie and Christian.

They're holding.

Just hang on, hang on.

I don't know if Mitchell did it again.

Mitchell was a little more bitter.

Simply saying, Mitchell said that it's the most irresponsible act he's ever seen in the justice system.

I am not in any way involved.

That's fine.

I'm sorry.

Because we have nothing to say.

There's nothing really new breaking.

We just won't comment.

But they'll say, you know, what you have.

Julie did a good job last night.

Yeah, I heard that.

Those ladies let me have a spit.

Those are very good.

What did Vesco, what the hell did they get?

What in the name of God did Vesco get?

He got indicted.

That's right.

Nothing more than that.

That's what he did.

He got indicted.

What did he get?

He didn't get any favor.

He turned off all favors and so forth.

What is that damn thing on him?

I suppose that the defense will say that there was information available about Ellsberg, which was before the trial.

Byron is supposed to rule on this today.

It's a tragedy in terms of the wrongdoing on the whole Pentagon paper thing.

But actually, it might not be too bad for that trial.

the native Ellsberg mentality that existed.

And the radio this morning was very good.

And the news reports are starting, just as we expected, they're starting to come around.

The president is making moves that will bring them, you know, starting to bring the thing into, you know, control and moving out of this.

And that's the sense of the press has been, you know, hysterical.

It's almost unbelievable.

It's an emotional trauma.

We don't believe 15, 10, 15 minutes.

Well, it's just like, uh, it's like, uh, it's like, uh, someone, uh, felt like, has an opportunity with a very, very voluptuous gal, and just goes wild, and after a while, they

But the media isn't I taught him long time

He said, one time, Jack Kennedy walked down the aisle of the airplane and said,

the point he's making is that although you know the news media as a whole is not anti he holds that thing it's not anti really yes sir he said i know he said in 19

And he said that the news media also can be tapped, can be played.

This is what we're talking about.

Can be used.

He says we did a lousy job on it in 1960.

Oh, he said we did great in 68.

He said you used them just right in 68.

He said in 1970, 71.

We overreacted to a very serious problem.

That's what he said.

I would think some of the news, and our friends would realize it.

Well, getting back to the point, Ron, let's be quite candid.

Whether it's the media or the left, it isn't really all of an urban adventure.

First of all, there's the liberal set, which have been decimated.

The Kathleen Grahams, the Bradens, those type of people.

They would be, from their standpoint, their motive is destruction.

However, the news media as a whole cannot be lumped into that.

Including TV.

Including, well, some TV cannot be lumped into that.

Like a chancellor.

Well, a John Chancellor.

He goes back and forth with them.

John Chancellor is a guy who's a personality who likes cheating to the top.

But you deal with some of the media that you don't.

I don't deal with any feeling.

Yes, I do.

I'm a Catholic.

I hate Nixon.

Well, anyway, if that is the case, isn't that what the larger battle is about?

The larger battle is really we're just trying to kill the president.

Well, I've got a list here.

This is one of the reasons I really feel we kind of get uneducated at that.

What should our plan be?

I see a Gannon, right, or something.

A lot of it is good and a lot of it is totally wrong.

I mean, that's McCrary, et cetera.

But, you know, you need it very fast.

Didn't McCrary say something yet?

I didn't say it.

Oh, he said something.

I don't know.

I haven't reached it, but he always says something.

Yeah.

has been through the years.

or an OEO thing, or whether or not you should have a bus.

We can all disagree on that, Ron.

We can all disagree as to whether you should have wage and privacy controls.

But who the hell can argue about the fact that at this present time in world history, the United States has the opportunity, either to win or lose, the greatest chance that history's ever had to build a structure of peace in the world.

I mean, you know the kids rather than me.

feel you have a responsibility to the American people not to allow this moment to pass by by being deflected and buried by something else.

Well, they understand that.

But in terms of the strategy, what I think we face here is that there's no question about the fact that those who made the initial run on this Watergate thing had the motive

press, free press, they get caught up in the motion of it all.

And that's true.

I'd say three of these pricks in the briefing room have done one ounce of investigative reporting or primary reporting on the whole orgy.

They've caught up in it for a while.

That's the orgy I'm talking about.

It's not the motive to get the president.

It's not the motive to destroy the president or anything like that.

This is what I think we have to deal with, because in the next three and a half years, if we understand this phenomenon of the press, and it's true with the Congress, too.

We can use them.

They are the same way.

My view is that we will not achieve the thing if we move into a harsh offensive.

I'm not talking about being in a position of weakness.

I'm not talking about misunderstanding.

And you've stoned us up absolutely in the cabinet.

Dealing with the press, dealing with the Congress does not mean that you're ever going to get them to be your friends.

But it's using them.

It's just like how boring it is in anything that it does.

You asked whether or not there's deep enough thinking going along.

I don't think so.

And this is something that Al and I have been meeting here at 915 for, to get some thinking going along.

Now Pat's done some thinking on this, of course.

But Ray Price is a

They go on.

Watergate

I have a

There is a...

if it's handled properly.

Plus, later on down the line, well, in response from the, in other words, wanting to see the leader achieve.

I think most human beings want to see the leader, their leader, win, win.

Now, okay, so we have that.

However, secondly, I think whoever's telling you, I'm just going to talk frankly to you, whoever suggests to you that this is,

First of all, obviously, in terms of scandal, in terms of someone receiving money and so forth, it's minuscule.

But it's also, Mr. President, broader than the wiretapping activities of previous administrations.

Oh, sure.

That was much more.

Well, it's broader.

No, no, not that more was done.

But a hell of a lot more has been exposed.

That's true.

Oh, listen, listen.

I got it.

The Kennedys in general.

They probably did more in terms of wiretapping and that type of activity than we did.

It wasn't exposed.

But this case goes beyond that.

This goes to the activities.

It's not focused on wiretapping, really.

That's where the play is now.

In this whole broad spectrum of things, I'm thinking most people think politics is very .

But I understand, and I'm quite aware of it.

I don't know.

This is just wiretapping.

We used wiretapping in a very legitimate way.

The Kennedys and the Johnsons, as I understand it, used it more indiscriminately.

That kind of stuff.

And the cover-up.

Oh, the cover-up.

That's the worst.

I understand.

But I love that.

I love that.

Starting upward, the only way we're going to win is to keep, as you said, keep this matter in perspective, but recognize it fully as to what it was and how it happened and why it happened.

Right.

And also, we've got to get some attention on the fact that we, the other side, were not virgins.

Absolutely.

Oh, my God, it's unbelievable.

I wait for that day.

I wait for that day to occur to me.

From March 21st.

I did what happened to those.

All of our efforts were there.

We could not have those documents stolen.

That's right.

And why everything was used.

India, Pakistan.

Yeah, used property.

Now, the tricky area is whether or not it can be used legally by outside of the FBI.

Now, you understand, you don't have to rule with me.

When the FBI uses them, they don't have to have a court order.

very, very strong on this.

I'm not going to go into it.

I have no information about it, so forth, because we're never going to put that out.

I think it doesn't matter if that's the M.O.D.

We have the facts.

I think they're in a vault.

That's a long-leaning package that's right out of the vault.

I'll never put it out.

I consider that a national security, and it's going to lay as buried as an

Why not?

Spend years.

The FBI's investigation was limited because the president sort of made it restricted.

Pat Gray is a good lawyer to follow up with Pat.

Of course, I don't think people are going to believe him right at the moment.

He destroyed the papers.

Let me tell you, that is a goddamn lie.

He told me all this.

I remember when that story broke.

I'll tell you how it happened, though.

Let me tell you.

Pat Gray, I don't know if that's the correct word, but there's another one on your mind.

I called Pat Gray.

I don't

But it was his job.

Well, I don't know whether or should you call it.

I don't know.

I think it has.

I've got a weak question.

Well, we'll see.

Thank God.

I wouldn't do that because he's moving in that direction.

There's something that, in this type thing, I suppose, like anything, there are basic, you know, third-rate moving reactions that people take.

Dean's going that way.

It would be very

Where, you see what I mean?

And I tell the leaders, and after that I present this to them.

How does that sound?

Very good.

And losing a day or two on this, somebody else comes up with the idea of Uber, which many have done.

I think, though, that if you could leak out today that the president is working on, or maybe you won't, but I can guarantee you those are leaks.

the whole area of campaign practices, campaign financing, campaign abuses, including tactics and violence.

The, uh, the, uh, needs a, uh, all laws, most of which are outdated, needs a total revision outside the country.

Where, you see what I mean, I call the leaders and after that I can present this to them.

Very good.

Where, you see what I mean, I call the leaders and after that, and losing a day, I can present this to everyone and somebody else comes up with the idea of Google or any of that.

Very good.

And losing a day or two on this, somebody,

I think, though, that if you would leave out the day that the president is working on it, or maybe you would leave out the day.

Whole area.

needs a, uh, uh, all laws, most of which are outdated, needs, needs a total revision, out, needs a, uh, uh, all laws, most of which are outdated, needs, needs a total revision, outside the, uh, uh, by, uh, by an independent body, the president has, uh, has been, has been, uh, uh, uh,

Here's what I have in mind, for example.

See, McGowan takes 250,000 hours.

If we can get the union, uh, if we can get the camp restricted, they ain't financing.

And I'll go on to the point, if we can get the union restricted, I'll tell them I was over-stricted to the others.

I was over-stricted to the others.

And I'll have the camp came on.

We could, camp, we could have run.

And at the last campaign, Ron, we could have, we could have run out of this White House and have $18 million out of this White House and have $18 million for the purpose of running air, for the purpose of running the Air Force, the Air Force Plane around, let all the service in the Air Force, the Air Force Plane run everything, and still won by 65%, 65%.

No, I would say 71%, yeah.

In other words, they can't pay the current revenue.

Probably 71%, probably my 60, yeah.

Probably my 60, yeah.

You can you can

Yeah.

Okay.

Sorry about her.

It was important to me.

Sorry about her.

It was important to me.

It was in the 15th.

It's not bad, dude.

The fact that he made a report for us.

We were one step ahead of the back.

I think we need it, you know.

I think the same thing has to be done with the communications section.

Clean out all of this campaign-type apparatus and get it moving through the Republican National Committee, a lot of it, and make it legitimate, legitimized.

I think the same thing has to be done with the communications section.

Well, we have proceeded, Mr. President, in a way that has

Well, we have proceeded, Mr. President, in a way that has put you in a position that means the client is down.

But one of the problems that we face right now, I'm convinced in my mind, in dealing with the press, part of stimulating this authority is that they feel that we have tried to use them.

And indeed we have.

Sure.

Yes, sir.

It's not her client I'm talking about.

Her client is down.

But one of the problems that we face right now, I'm convinced in my mind, in dealing with

Part of stimulating this for our youth is that they feel that we have tried to use them.

And indeed we have.

Sure.

By the way that we have conducted the... Sir, you can say we should not try to use them.

I don't think we should not try to use them.

I don't say that.

I say we should use them.

I don't think we need to use them.

We should use them.

I don't say that.

We should use them.

In Milcom.

For everything we can get out of it.

We try.

But it's Boston useful.

It's Boston useful.

Kim's useful.

Yeah.

It ain't like that.

Kim's useful.

Yeah.

It brings other guys in here.

It ain't like that.

I want to bring some other guys in here and say,

The campaign is over.

That's my point.

and everything that they do.

And it's only a problem with ideas.

And the reason that all you got over two years, quite frankly, were memo reports of things that never happened.

Quite frankly, were memo reports of things that never happened.

So the way to get it to run is for guys in the department.

It never ran.

So the way to get it to run is for guys in the department.

Coordinated with guys like him that upgraded safety.

Instead of just mailing.

Instead of just mailing something to Goldwater or something, discussing those wanting to attack or power these guys, just drop by his office and discuss those terms.

I think that will work.

Well, anything else in the news you want me to answer?

I think that will work.

Well, anything else in the news you want me to answer?

One of our reporters

Thank you.

But now it takes 250,000 hours.

At the last campaign, Ron, we could have run out of this White House and have $18 million for the purpose of running Air Force, the Air Force plane around, let all the servants run everything, and still won by 65%, 65%.

Or, no, I would say 71%.

Yeah.

In other words, the campaign hurt rather than...

Probably by six points.

Do you think so?

Oh, yes.

All this hue, hue can't be never-ending.

and I don't know what the hell happened to you.

No, Sawbush.

But don't we sort of need a man around here?

No, I think that we need a guy like Maruti to handle personal contacts, to be kind of a liaison with Bush, but clean out all of this campaign-type apparatus and get it moving through the Republican National Committee, a lot of it, and make it legitimate, legitimized.

Well, we have proceeded, Mr. President, in a way that has put you in a position.

Yes, sir.

It's not her turn I'm talking about.

Her turn.

But one of the problems that we face right now, I'm convinced in my mind, in dealing with the press, part of the stipulation is that they feel that we have tried to use them.

And indeed we have.

We should use them in Milcom for everything we can get out of it.

Yeah, but they don't need these offices.

We tried.

But isn't Boston useful?

Kim's useful.

Yeah, anything like that.

But I want to bring some other guys in here.

Some guys like Timmy.

Bring them in.

Well, I wouldn't, you know.

Right now, yeah.

do some thinking though about how that all is going to end.

I'm tired of everything.

The campaign is over.

That's my point, too.

Yes, sir.

And the only problem that I do have is that we do have one hell of a time.

The attendance office is so weak that they just don't seem to be able to ever generate anything up on the Hill.

No, but they strengthen it.

So.

And the way to get the guys on the Hill, the way to get a Goldwater on the Hill, or the way to get these people on the Hill, Mr. President,

The reason that all you got over two years, quite frankly, were memo reports of things that never happened.

I saw those memos go up there.

I saw what people were telling you.

People were telling you that there's so many pieces of paper went to the hills, so many people served.

It never ran.

So the way to get it to run is for guys in the departments, in the departments of the

uh,