Conversation 917-028

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Hi.

Pleasure to search.

Yes, sir.

The last one over there began 11th.

And I went all the way back to 17th.

I didn't have permission to get his name.

I know, sir.

It's all over.

In the process of this whole thing, I talked to Bob.

Yeah.

And Bob said nothing.

I didn't hear so many things.

Well, I know.

The music bench.

I'm kidding.

I checked the road.

It's not that time.

Right, sir.

Yeah.

I saw an unfortunate story this morning with regard to somebody in our campaign who was working in a strange place or something like that.

And I said, I wonder what has happened to the study that I had ordered with regard to the violence against our campaign.

groups that were inciting violence and so forth, and the numbers and so forth, so on, so on, so on, so on.

Why don't you get this into the meeting?

Certainly this material ought to get into the water, so why don't you let me use it?

Sure, so that is great.

That's the only, believe me, Larry, they've only got a number and some of it is being held.

Now that we've checked, I don't know.

The only other thing we can do in the possible communication that I can think of is a new summary notation.

Curling this in overtime.

I can check those.

They look very alive.

But that's all you know.

That would be the same sort of stuff, reacting to how come we're not getting our side of the story.

See, those don't go from you.

Those go from Curlie.

Yeah, but basically, did they say the president wants you to do that?

No, sir.

They specifically do not say that.

Well, that's my point.

I asked Bob about that earlier, because I know some pretty raw things on that.

I said, get the hell to work on this.

As I understand it, the staff expresses their opinions in that way, or how does it do it?

It goes, it has been requested, is all it says.

And the memorandums clearly work for Curlie.

to the individual.

And there's never, he very carefully phrases it in such a way that there's no opportunity.

But Kerlay has ever asked about that.

Kerlay, as we say, those are based on basically discussions that stand out here.

He should not say it's been requested, because we're going to hold absolute executive privilege in regard to all documents.

See, that's something, that would fall under that category.

Yeah.

But we're never, of course, we're never going to allow the new summaries to go out.

We're never going to allow them.

I haven't been in the new summary until after the 28th of March.

No, no, 28th of February.

No, I'm not concerned about the new summary.

Not with him.

I'm the dean.

You see, there's the...

The whole tragedy of this thing is that people are being dragged in who were basically the best police, even he wasn't at the time.

But in the case of Bob and John, totally good police, but he was the right man, but they caught up in it.

But you take the three, in Bob's case, the fact that it could have come across his vest, one of those goddamned men, I'm sure that it did.

If he had thought it was a trap, or if he had told me, I saw him all the time, I should have.

And yet Bob was as amazed as I was, Larry, the day of my auntie, when we heard of the goddamn thing.

I mean, he didn't count any.

Yeah.

Well, I talked to Strawn on the whole thing, too.

And the way Strawn said, even when they got stuff, that he very rarely saw, but he said even when they got stuff, it was clearly then under the basis of, here are some of the more sophisticated intelligence that creepers picked up.

There was no inference that it was a TAP in any way, shape, or form.

Well, then I was thinking, for example, of a case of looking at Bob, an expert in the United States, about that 350 or 350.

But on that goddammit, first, sure, it was told the defendants needed some money.

But he was not, he didn't have that transferred for the purpose of shutting them up.

He was, it was for the purpose of their legal fees.

I mean, he didn't have the right to get the goddamned money back.

That's right.

Right?

Yeah, it was good.

Primarily the latter purpose, to give money back.

It wasn't our money.

Yeah, I mean, let us suppose that they will listen to that.

Even looking at it in terms, they say, did you have knowledge, Mr. Hall, that such money might go to this other person?

See, he has to say yes.

He has to say it, not say it might.

Well, I don't think he considered it.

Huh?

I don't think he considered it.

Well, he might have.

He might have.

I don't think he considered it.

See, but he didn't know that until afterwards.

The way it worked is Strong was clearing out his files, getting ready to go to his new job.

And Strong came to me, and he said, you know, we've still got that $350,000.

What the hell are we going to do with it?

And I asked Bob, and Bob said, Jesus, the committee's money.

Get it back to the committee and have Strong check with Dean so we do it right so we don't break any campaign finance laws.

That's the last Bob knew about it.

That's how Dean got it.

And poor Strawn was totally by Dean, you know, and all the way he made Strawn handle it.

That's just, it's just terrible what Dean did to Gordon.

But, you know, even there, I just think... Strawn and then Dean.

Dean delivered it.

Had it delivered in the middle of the night.

It's a response.

Right.

But not in the middle of the night.

Strawn simply did it on his way home from work.

There was no dastardly sort of plan, you know.

But that's the way it worked out, I should share.

And the only next thing that we got was finally the March of the University came in and still discussed a little bit about the difference, the threat of black men going out and the rest.

We all just, I called all of them and thanked God for the last part of the meeting.

And showed them what a foolish goddamn operation it was.

And that they went wrong and they shouldn't share it.

But we didn't do anything.

That's the point.

I think it was just...

How do you think you're being consoled when the Christ is coming this way?

I'll tell you, I think I know exactly.

Scared?

Yeah, there's a guy.

I don't mind that I'm scared of Jesus, but the guy, he's counseling with the presence of Christ.

We confide in him.

Thank God I didn't confide in him.

I didn't, you know, I didn't sense his...

I didn't really sense his being... frankly, not presently.

Sure, it did.

Yeah.

Four days of Easter vacation out of Palm Springs with the living in our house we had out there.

This year.

The guy never gave any indication of Easter.

Huh?

Easter.

Not Easter, no.

No, no, no, sir.

At Christmas, I said.

Yeah.

When we went out to Palm Springs for a week and we were in the bottom of it.

Yeah.

And, uh... What do you say to that?

That was a day of fun.

And the guy could not have been more fortified, relaxed.

Did he talk about it in the back of the night?

Did he come around to me?

No, it was pretty obvious that everybody in the gym was going to have problems.

And it's just a, that's just a lie.

Yeah, hell yes it is.

Not to anybody's knowledge over here, at least not to my knowledge.

No, that's what happened.

It's a group of people.

No, they did.

The problem is, I think, and this is why I've talked to a lot of people about it, is you had a case with John Dean, who was a guy who was a fast-rising star, believed he was honestly doing the right thing.

Right.

all of a sudden woke up one day and found himself in over his head trying to start to get out and kept getting deeper and deeper and deeper and eventually made the decision it's the problem of a guy being his own lawyer that he had to go for all or nothing and once you make that decision

There's no turning back.

You go for all or nothing.

That's right.

He's going for immunity, or he's done.

I mean, the guy is really done, because he's destroyed, he's put his whole public credibility on the line, his career as a lawyer on the line, his career as a decent honest man, his position as a decent honest man.

Sure he is.

unless there's some wild-out liberal, liberal outfit that might want to hire him for some reason.

But I can't, you know, people still, whether they're liberal or conservative, have to have some sort of a basic trust.

And you can't trust that guy.

So, I think that's what happened to John.

An offer is going out to say, well, there wasn't, we never did a claim to be reported in an informal state.

But my guy, he breathed, he breathed our breathers over and over and over again.

I sat in there when he did it.

Ron took all his specific guns directly from John on trust once again.

So the guy turned out in hell half the time he was doing that.

Apparently he was playing another game with the prosecutors.

So his boss was trying to get rid of John.

Went in there and put him in jail.

When did Dean come in?

Did he come in today?

Dean hasn't been, as I understand it, to formally appear.

Well, then what the hell was this the day that he was locked boxed and said he was now in the courthouse?

That's right.

See, that was the hearing they had on attempting to get custody of those papers.

What the hell do you think are those papers that you're giving to her?

What does that mean?

Well, I think, first of all, it's the report he wrote up at Camp David.

But he was supposed to be doing a report with a self-serving document to try and explain his way out of it and implicate everybody else.

Secondly, I think there's probably some national security documents relating to...

domestic and domestic-slash-foreign intelligence about infiltration efforts tied up possibly in demonstrations that took place both earlier and during the convention.

I think that's primarily what he has.

In other words, though, why are those papers, do you have any answers, or why was they here to help him?

I don't know.

I think he's pulling a glove.

I really do.

I think he's, I think that's a good card.

That's a very exciting thing.

He may have something else in there.

But I sure as hell don't.

Well, one of the reasons I wanted to check my files was because I wasn't sure there was a president.

Yeah.

He, however, may have some crap, you know.

But all of them didn't write a memorandum.

No.

All of them didn't write a memorandum.

That's the problem.

John, you know, has kind of a...

Memorandum of conscience.

Well, and as Bob and I used to say, kind of a smorgasbord of approach to things.

He dabbles in it for a while when he gets out.

I don't know if he knows really what he's talking about.

I hope not.

John's the one that really works me in terms of location.

Let me say this.

Just pray for the best.

If both men, personally, both men will do god damn well before the committee because they're honest men and make a good impression.

That's the point of it.

Both men have, as they've realized, a possibility that Dyke, under this goddamn Shuri law, which sets up, you know, a conspiracy to instruct justice, a possibility that's possible.

However, both men, in my opinion, there would be one hell of a time convicting either of them.

No, that's my judgment.

What's your judgment on that?

I think, I think they've got absolutely no chance of convincing, convicting Haldeman.

And I think that they may get, to get John on some technicality, not necessarily involved with the Watergate thing, but something back with Ellsberg or, or something else.

But John was in all kinds of stuff.

Yeah, but they've got to break, they've got to start breaking out of suit then or something.

Yeah.

Well, they will.

I think they'll get John eventually on something very funny.

I don't think they'll ever get back.

Because Bob wasn't involved.

He was pure himself.

Yeah, but when you say catch on, I mean, they've got to bring that down to national.

What are you talking about, Larry?

Did he talk about John Hatcher with the gun?

No.

Didn't get into it at all.

Magruder?

No, it was pretty obvious that everybody from Jeb was going to have a problem with this whole thing.

And it's just a... Jeb lied.

Yeah.

Hell yes he did.

Not to anybody's knowledge over here, at least not to my knowledge.

No.

That's what had happened.

I said, Magruder gave you one of these, or something like that.

No.

And he delivered at the middle of the night.

They did.

The problem is, I think, and this is why I've talked to a lot of people about it, is you have a case, but not the middle of the night.

Strong simply did it on his way home from a case with John Dean, who was a guy who was a fast-rising star, believed he was honest.

There was no gastric laser.

He was doing the right thing.

All of a sudden, woke up one day and found himself in over his head.

Was that right?

But that's the way it worked out.

trying to start to get out and kept getting deeper and deeper and deeper.

And eventually...

It's the problem of a guy being his own lawyer, that he had to go for all or nothing.

And once you make that decision, there's no turning back.

That's right, he's going for immunity, or he's done.

I mean, the guy is really...

victims of threatening black men going on and the rest.

Yeah, because he's destroyed, he's put his whole public credibility on the line, his career as a lawyer on the line, his career as a decent honest, you know, his position as a... We all, I call him old.

If he has an entity, he's got his legacy.

Sure he is.

Unless there's some wild-out liberal outfit that might want to hire him for some reason.

But I can't...

You know, people still don't know whether they're...

Thank God for the last part of the meeting.

...conservative, you have to have some sort of a basic trust.

Honor.

And, uh, never, never.

So, uh, I think... What a foolish goddamn operation it was.

That's what happened to John.

An offer is going out to say...

But we didn't do it for him.

Well, there was...

He breathed.

Our breathers, over and over and over again.

I said, I know what he did.

It was like, Ron took all this.

You know exactly.

Scared.

Yeah, well, here's a guy.

Here's a guy that's directly from John.

Untrustworthy.

When did he go in?

We confided.

Thank God I didn't confide.

He hasn't been in his mind or shame.

I didn't.

What the hell was this today that he did?

That's right.

Well, I think, first of all, before he wrote up a candidate, but he was supposed to be doing a report.

Right.

to try and explain his way out of it and implicate everybody else.

Secondly, I think there's probably some national security documents relating to domestic and domestic slash foreign intelligence about infiltration efforts tied up.

Possibly demonstrations that took place.

Both earlier and during the convention.

I think that's probably what he has.

In other words, why don't we have any answers to help him?

I don't know.

That's incredible.

I really did.

I think that's a very exciting thing.

He may have four days of Easter vacation and I was in there.

But I sure as hell...

I'm very conscious.

No, no, no, sir.

At Christmas I said it.

And, uh...

if both were right or left.

First, did he talk about the fact that he'd come around?

Both men would have gotten that level before the committee.

Because they're honest men.

When he talked about what the impression was, did he talk about the public?

Both men have.

No.

Didn't get it.

As they realize.

Possibility that.

Right.

God damn sure.

No, it was pretty obvious that we won.

Everybody.

Which says that, you know, the conspiracy was trying to get us.

And it's just a.

It's just a lie.

Yeah.

However, both men.

Well, yes, they did.

Not everybody's knowledge.

There were people here.

There's not a hell of a amount of time to think that he'd be the one.

Now, let it happen.

And that's my judgment, which was a group of people.

I think they've got absolutely no chance of convincing, convicting Haldeman.

And I thought they did.

The problem is, I think, is that they make it to get John on some technicality.

I've talked to a lot of people.

I'm not necessarily involved with the water.

You have to put something back with Ellsberg or a case with John Dean or something else.

John, who's a guy who's opposing all kinds of stuff.

Yeah, but they've got to start breaking it.

They've got to start breaking it.

believed he was honestly doing the right thing all of a sudden woke up one day and found himself in over his head tried to start to get out and kept getting deeper and deeper and deeper and eventually made the decision it's the problem of a guy being his own lawyer that he had to go for all or nothing and once you make that decision

There's no turning back.

That's right.

He's going for immunity, or he's done.

I mean, the guy is really done, because he's destroyed, he's put his whole public credibility on the line.

His career as a lawyer on the line.

His career as a student on the line.

Yeah.

Well, they will.

I think they'll get John eventually on something.

Very funny.

I don't think they'll ever get John.

Because Bob wasn't involved.

He just cured himself.

Yeah, but when you say check, John, I mean, they've got to bring that guy to an action, or file an indictment against him or something.

Yeah, but see, the thing hasn't unraveled all the way.

You don't know how far it's going to go.

And you've got to wait until it unravels completely to know everything.

Well, we're going to take the offensive on this national security stuff.

We should.

That stuff, for example, that went to the FBI and brought us on stuff.

Jesus.

Now, anyway...

I didn't get a chance to see you.

I just wanted to say, you know, there's a decent honest position here.

There's a lot of stuff going on and you may be picking up some of it about the junior staff.

That's all bullshit.

It's the same couple of people that were that way on Cambodia and some of the other stuff.

But the basic majority of these people in here are hanging tough and will hang tough.

Let me say this one.

An ideal for me.

An ideal for all of them.

They thought they were doing the right thing.

An ideal for Mitchell.

Uh, some of the things are very stupid.

But I do know that's the right thing, and we're not gonna love this particular thing.

Come on in.

Good.

Okay.

Didn't I say that?

If he has amenities, that ain't shit.

Sure he is.

unless there's some wild-out liberal outfit that might want to hire him for some reason.

But I can't, you know, people still, whether they're liberal or conservative, have to have some sort of a basic trust.

So, I think that's what happened to John.

An offer is going out to say, well, there wasn't, we never did a claim to be reported in an informal state.

But he breathed, he breathed hard, breathers, over and over and over again.

Huh?

It was liquid.

Ron took all his specific guns directly to him, John.

On trust, once again.

So he was bothering the grand jury today.

Yeah.

When they never let him take it.

When did Dean come in?

Was he here today?

Dean hasn't been, as far as I understand, in the form of a hearing.

Then what the hell was the debate?

His lockbox, he said it was in the courthouse.

That's right.

What the hell do you think are those papers?

Well, I think, first of all, it's the report he wrote on the candidate.

but he was supposed to be doing a report with a self serving document to try and explain his way out of it and implicate everybody else.

Secondly, I think there's probably some national security documents relating to

domestic and domestic slash foreign intelligence about infiltration efforts tied up possibly in demonstrations that took place both earlier and during the convention.

I think that's primarily what he has.

In other words, why do those neighbors have any interest or why would they be there to help him?

I don't know.

I really do.

I think that's a very exciting thing.

He may have something else in there.

But I sure as hell don't.

Well, one of the reasons I wanted to check my files was that he got into a fight with the president.

Yeah.

He, however, may have some crap, you know, but Holland didn't write a memorandum.

No.

Holland, that's very apparent.

A memorandum.

That's a problem.

John, you know, has kind of a...

Memorandum of conscience.

Well, and as Bob and I used to say, kind of a smorgasbord of approach to things.

He dabbles in it for a while when he gets out.

I don't know if he knows really what he's got to do.

I hope not.

John's the one that really works me in terms of location.

Let me say this.

Just pray for the best.

Get both men.

First, both men will be goddamned well before the committee because they're honest men who make good decisions.