On May 15, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon, Ronald L. Ziegler, and unknown person(s) met in the Oval Office of the White House from 8:10 am to 8:35 am. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 918-006 of the White House Tapes.
Transcript (AI-Generated)This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.
Well, yes, I am.
The thing didn't play in the Postal Times.
I don't do any good work playing.
Right.
Right, that's right.
Well, no, absolutely not.
DeMarco.
See, Garmin is a member of the Foundation, too.
And he and I are going to call DeMarco
This is not in the foundation, as far as I understand.
No, I understand.
I understand that.
But DeMarco is going to be ready with the complete rundown, as we put it out before.
That's exactly right.
At 9.30.
And he will release it, and I will release it.
That will put us in a very good position, then, to deal with the committee on some basis.
Now, the main question is, Mr. President, I'm partaking on the committee.
Believe me, I've partaken on the committee, but the story ran on the Associated Press.
I'll do what you want me to say, but I want to raise this with you.
I'm excited, and I want to talk to some other people.
The story has not gotten national play.
It was not used on any of the networks.
It was not used in any publication.
The wires have not repeated.
And if we go out today...
No, Lynn was, in fairness to Lynn, he was very excited about it.
But anyway, my point is, you know, there's going to be a story about that.
And eventually they will pass.
Now, let me say this straight.
I agree with you.
Well, let me put into context what I'm saying.
I am for applying unbelievable pressure to the committee.
I am for saying that the committee should investigate where this source came from.
You ought to say that.
Yes, in the briefing, absolutely.
And I'm going to say that it is unusual, if I'm asking, I'll be asking, see, let them come in, that it is unusual that it took the committee 18 hours to issue a response on, you know, on a... Well, if they do this morning, see.
And if they don't, then I'm...
They're meeting at 9 o'clock, see.
Right.
And then if they don't, I'm going to call for it to a formal statement.
If they don't really get it flat out, they come out with an inane, half-assed, right question.
Yeah.
But the thing that I think we have to be very careful of, this is not a national story, and looking at it through the objective we have to meet, which is the public opinion, we were talking about that yesterday, we should not take a step... Yeah, I was looking at the news this morning.
It's very insane.
They just, the, the, the national media depends on the sense of this story.
And no wonder when people get discouraged.
You must like this.
You and Al, I guess, are the only two people around here that have any balance left.
Is that the problem?
I've got an awful lot of balance.
So does Al.
Anybody else?
Yes, sir.
Buchanan has balance?
Buchanan.
Or is there a problem there?
Schultz, maybe.
No, I think every one of these staff meetings.
You were saying there was some...
I know.
If there's anybody I have to call in, sir...
No, I know, because I know it's hard for him, you know, it's very hard.
But Ron, just keep your perspective about that.
Absolutely.
This thing is going to be, as I read those, the search is going to be, oh, Christ, I mean, about the man in the rabbit's house gets the FBI file.
So when no one understands who the hell is here about the FBI, how's it going?
And the other one, I can't figure out that grand jury, I guess it's a break-in.
the eastern european press that pointed out today in an article in several of the papers that the eastern european leaders and the eastern european press feel that this entire water being
matter is a conspiracy against the president, which is true.
It's quite true.
Moved by power sources, they say, who are against the efforts to, you know, better relationship between Eastern Europe and the United States.
Now, one thing that does is that just shoots the lip of the Jesus out of these people who are pontificating around in foreign policy is
I don't care about the pontificate.
Listen.
God damn it, you know.
We're on the brink.
We all get too obsessed with the columns.
We get too obsessed with the thread.
I'm sure it's going to affect the public sentiment and the polls and so on.
But whatever we care.
We've been expecting it for a long time.
We always, you know what I mean.
And then if you go up and down, that's the way it is.
This is going to affect it a little more.
We've got to keep in mind, too, that we know.
When you think about, when you think about the 200 million people across this country, no one knows who the hell Joe Kraft is, or, or, or, yeah, that's a call.
I would think that he is a part of this.
But there, they don't know them.
They get all the time.
They go on to say they were shocked that the White House would have the front row be suggested to Congress.
So the names Pat Brown and Warren Hart, for Christ's sakes,
The two partisan Democrats, one of them ran against the President.
So there's not the... Obviously, the main suggestion was to get the president.
I think they wanted a totally Democrat president.
I think in this whole story, as you read the last one, and again today, this is
What we have to keep our eye on is the impression.
If we begin to move and react to each story, this bears that viewpoint.
We've got to keep it in perspective and move on.
But if we get ourselves, because of the complexity in the Russian stories, if we start reacting to each story in our moves, if we assess the impression, that's why I'm saying on this house thing,
If we can do something to stimulate that impression better than the country, then we lose.
Because before...
I was thinking on the other side, I just do as little comment as possible from here in the country, John.
What do you think I should do about going out and having a press conference out there sometime?
I ought to be doing that sometime.
Not soon.
I was thinking sort of about the time of the Russians.
That's right.
Not before then.
Absolutely.
Because it would be otherwise totally unmodified.
That's right.
Let them wait.
All right.
And I promise to our interests not to have a press conference.
This thing features the statements.
We should have a press conference.
One of those to our interests.
I think what I would do is have a press conference.
You know what I mean?
It's a great interest.
Or we just might have a...
right now the whole news
We could find other ways to find other events to focus on.
Norfolk could be good.
I was trying to get the right impression.
Do you think we would have done a good idea?
To me?
No, I thought it was a good idea.
Oh, I see.
Because you were talking about events yesterday.
I thought you knew.
And then I got the wrong impression.
No, no.
I meant that the other night.
It got good what?
I meant, did it get good?
Yes.
Anyway.
What I've had is that I realize that's a jibbit-jibbit kind of stuff, but... No, no, I think they've done many things, and a few of these opened the door on things.
Good.
But my point was also to weave into the schedule.
Weave now?
No, not weave now.
Weave into the schedule, like this bipartisan leadership meeting.
Substantively.
Substantively.
Well, we'll do it every day.
Every day.
Tomorrow we'll do something.
Waterhead or something, or whatever we can do.
next week and so forth.
You mean that gives the feeling that... Like today, the lead, the lead stories coming in on the radio, what people are hearing today.
It's not the president's meeting, but they're hearing the president's meeting today with the bipartisan leaders talking about campaign reform.
That's good.
That's good, yes.
And Norfolk will be... That would be good, but I think your idea of meeting with the bipartisan leaders is great.
And...
Even if you have a guy like, I've built and structured these out, this is one of the things that Al has asked for suggestions on.
If you have a guy like, I don't know, Maynard or something.
Roast them.
In for 15 minutes.
We can milk that to three fields.
Roast them?
Yes.
That's good.
Very good.
Well, if it's our help, we can voyage.
Because, you know, it's your day.
I guess today is finally going to get the team papers.
That's right.
That's right.
That's right.
That's what everyone says.
We're going to get them.
I didn't understand it to be that way yesterday.
I mentioned it to the Justice Department.
But if it goes to the Justice Department, it comes here.
There are papers.
They didn't give it time.
Yeah, he's playing up, to be sure, the whole public relations.
Hey, listen, talk to that yesterday.
I think it's on the phone.
That's your guess, too?
Yes.
Huh?
Yes.
I don't know what he could have gotten his hands on.
He wasn't that dead.
No, what I meant is, he could have gotten his hands on one thing, but the only thing that would be embarrassing, not embarrassing, but would be relevant to this case would be starting with the hunt.
So I guess he was in the murder business, you could think of that.
That proves he was in the hunt.
Was he in the hunt?
Yes, he was in the hunt.
Did he gain anything?
Dean, I suppose he might have been.
I thought he probably was.
Well, I know whether or not my judgment is right here in about two hours or three hours when they open up that box, but I don't think he has anything in there.
I think it's going to be insignificant.
I mean, what I would predict...
I predict that it's a 43-page thing he wrote up there, and it was a dribbly little comment stuff.
Well, it's not a comment.
It's all a comment.
But you didn't have to put that in the top secret, did you?
The what?
You didn't have to make that top secret.
Know what I mean?
You didn't have to classify it.
Well, if you would try, I agree with you, I would try to get my own schedule now.
ironed out so that I can do some of the assumptions every day, which I want to do.
Today is a perfect day.
See, today is a perfect day because you've got the 8.30 meeting, then you have the Holly Selassie, and then you have time in between there to concentrate and to do other things.
This is what I... What I'm saying is the solution to this is not just
deal with the present schedule with something every hour.
I'm saying something in the morning, perhaps something in the afternoon, which gives you time in between to manage and to think these other things through.
That's correct.
Now, I don't know.
Look, this Clementi thing took five minutes to take a great deal of effort.
It was good stuff to do.
Those colored things where a congressman wants to burn them, that's good.
But I'm talking about maybe three days a week
a sub-sum of the Quad-Red.
We talked about the Congress, the NSC, a couple of meetings with you.
That's perfect.
We have to follow through on our strategy, which is... We'll have the leaders every Tuesday.
We'll have the candidates Friday.
That's not bad.
That's perfect.
We'll work at an economic or NSC meeting on Thursday and then on Monday
uh wednesday i think we we may or may not we may be able to hold it then i think you need it one day
He just must be.
He's just going to change.
We talked last night.
He was so tired yesterday.
I could see it on the table.
The main thing, Mr. President, is you have to get rest.
You look good, but you've got to get rest.
Well, of course, it's hard.
I'll be the head of the foundation.
What about these papers?
What about those papers?
You know what I mean?
What are we going to do about these things?
You can't do that.
And I feel it.
I've got to get to Ms. Harvey.
Do you have confidence in me?
Ms. Harvey?
Yes, I do.
I think there's quite a bit of heavy traffic because of rain this morning.
No, the main thing, the one thing we all have to keep in mind is that the president can be consumed with all this type of money.
It's something that shouldn't be.
We have to start showing ourselves.
It doesn't happen.
Sure.
Under the president of Disney, though,
The staff, these press people, sent it out like that.
I was very worried that the Vice President was actually going to cut him in both.
He had sent along, I was thinking, two article letters to the effect that he was put out, that he was true.
And then he, you know, the Advocacy Council, which Vice Chairman,
to work with are true.
Ken Cole, the president, the representative of the president, on whatever shit he's talking about.
Can you imagine him coming in here, farting around?
That's pretty crappy stuff, isn't it?
Absolutely.
Simply, I work with Ken Cole.
I mean, everybody else does.
You see, there you have it.
That point of view, his name, Mr. President, suggests that the
It suggests that it's a mark of not a strong man.
Because a vice president of the United States can work with and through Ken Cole to get the job done and make it appear that he is not.
That's the point.
The key is to get there.
That's very surprising.
Terrible.
So I had to throw that to Al, and I had to tell him, you see, we've got Al over to work due to the fact that John, you see, I also afforded it to him.
I can't even do something.
I've got to bring that up, son.
Although this little profile thing appeals to me.
Is your job really beefing up?
Lawson's a good man.
My lawson's a good man.
This little communication thing that we're beefing up, it means you're in debt.
Even not my secretaries, I've got ELB techniques trimmed down.
Trim it down?
That's what we're going to do.
Don't you just get too many people?
Well, it's not structured like that.
Trim it down.
Let's get it.
Because we're in the business that they're concerned.
One thing, eating out of this 10-minute shop.
And they're working with the three new people that approved for that.
I have several people.
They were writing me that they want to keep me there.
They thought it was a mistake to let him go.
Nydekker...
They all liked him.
Yeah, Nydekker was a good sort of court jester.
Where did Nydekker go?
He was going to another apartment.
It was mainly because, you know, he wasn't... Nydekker is a good guy.
Oh, would you mind if one of your roommates made an entire apartment that would keep Nydekker?
What the hell?
See?
Oh, I must not know this.
Excuse me.
I must not be all upset.
That's what I say.
We have to be clear on the scope of it.
It's quite broad, as we've already recognized.
It's going to continue.
But what we have to deal with, I'm convinced now, is the impression and not the specific story.
And if you look at the impression as it relates to the president and not the specific story, today's the day.
I mean, in the context of what we're involved in, today's the day for the president.
Sure, there are bad days and good days for the President all the time.
We all know that.
We have more of our share of bad for the last two months.
God has been nice on us.
Yes, sir.
Very hard on all of us.
That's a...
I agree with you 100%.
This is not melancholy or melancholy.
I really think that the best deal goes to the hottest fire.
You said that to me before I leave.
You said it publicly.
It's true.
grow and strengthen.
Yeah, it's hard, so I'm cracking it.
Some of it just melts.
What we have to do is, also, all this business of, well, interactiveness, because people lose confidence in the president and all that sort of thing, and bullshit.
People lose confidence for a period of time, and you regain the confidence over a period of time.
But that would mean that they don't have any media.
We lost confidence.
many times in the war, crisis of confidence, credibility, of course this is law, this is law, this is law, it's pervasive and it also gets to some personal things, some personal things, but I've never lived, I'm not referring to the house,
and I don't think Dean
Well, we have the Skylab going out of it.
Yes, he does.
plus the weight of evidence is so critical
Now, I don't want to start this meeting until I get a possible date.
Right.
You don't want to start until what?
Well, I'd like to get to see Steve, but then I've got to get a message.
He's not going to be here.
I'd like to know.
Okay.