Nixon & Haig on Watergate and Huston Plan

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Hi, uh, I may have interrupted your staff meeting, huh?

What's up?

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Okay, how are you doing this morning?

Good, great, yeah.

You can't just sleep on all the problems and so forth.

Yes, sir.

Yeah.

I think we really need to get some press through.

Then we should talk a little bit in our office.

First, we do agree that it would be, well, at least as far as our own job is concerned, that the principals involved and the agencies be informed, or whatever you want.

We have mentioned that to him.

What I meant is that...

There was two people.

Yes, I mean, Lighthouse, Rock, and who else did you say?

Rock's hospital?

Peterson.

Peterson should be informed.

Just so they know.

Schlesinger.

See, I didn't think they were any deals.

Yeah, I think, uh... Defense.

Defense, I think, uh... Well, there are...

I would, uh...

There are also...

Regarding the privilege thing, our last conversation, I don't want to jump too fast in terms of that.

There are two kinds, there are two things, whether it's the privilege, the earlier one we had in the conversation with Laney, that is about, in other words, things at that level.

But the other thing we're talking about is national security documents.

And on that, I don't think we need to get it too quickly.

In other respects, I have national security information, which is not a privilege.

There were tests for Walters.

Walters is not quite a privilege, and the President's not a privilege with regard to the conversation with the President.

Or do you agree?

Do you think that's true?

I think Walters, God damn it, is able to testify to anything and everything.

that he would just simply say that everything, he would have to fight everything except that.

I noticed an interesting thing that McCollum seemed to be banging around a little on this, which surprised me.

He said the White House was trying to involve the CIA.

Well, that's a small matter.

It's supposed to be just a question.

But McCollum's a man who can be talked to by people who he's got to start somewhere.

He's a little funny.

And it's got, if you notice, Christopher tearing down that thing.

Right, good, good.

I noticed Goldwater made a comment to the effect, just to keep your attention.

Yeah.

Next thing to observe leadership is the nature of those comments.

I'll talk a little, but that's sort of a Goldwaterism.

I don't know what in the name of God, how they want you to do what they say.

It's their leadership.

Do you know?

Except the runner might get very cold.

The runner might get very cold.

I was going to say, look, you put out a statement.

We got a statement from the White Chief of the Army.

Got a modest, just a modest company.

We're meeting regularly.

The president's going out on armed services today.

You know, he's just working his tail off.

Barry, do we need to stick together right now?

We are turning leadership.

You see, would you mind if... No, no, no.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Now, coming back to this thing, I'm trying to figure out the gun there.

What the hell do you think happened?

Why would such a policy document be ineffective?

I had to rule the policy, and then in 48 hours, I would call people and say, turn it off.

What do you think happened?

And the question that Hoover just, just probably blew his back.

This is a traditional group.

It had been a traditionally group all through.

Yeah.

An extended group.

Yeah.

And, uh, Colson.

Quite a folk, I can tell you about Colson.

He, he's the one that went to Hoover.

to the director after the policy had been approved and said, well, they're tying the tough ends of the Bureau, so the Bureau needs to be destroyed.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So then Sullivan called.

Well, no, then you or someone, either Eric or Bob or Croce, were trying to find the answer to that by an attorney general and a director with the recommendation at the time.

He turned it off.

We think I was broke, you know.

Yes.

And that's the way they were collected over in Europe.

Yeah, solely, yeah.

And so then it was a call made three in the morning.

And the operation was?

We don't know.

When they set it off, it meant it all.

Standing authorities, previous standing authorities.

Remain.

That's all right.

That's no problem.

Let me come down to two or three things here then.

Uh, if you are trying to look at it from a cold perspective of the mind, it appears to me that you did receive that crime immediately.

In order to coordinate these war agents, and some of them wanted to do more, and some of them wanted to just go on as it was after the meeting, they developed a policy for each of the 43 pages, and

and with recommendations.

I did not specifically approve the items on it, but all of them told the agencies involved that they should go ahead and resume approval, right?

That's right.

And it should be portrayed in the context that we have unanimous recommendations to return to our policies.

But I think that's fine.

But having done all that, what happened is that Hoover then

We had Tolson, and Tolson got to Hoover, and Hoover then raised the question over here, and then we decided that we would return to the policies that we were previously, because the one thing, I do remember about the meeting that we had with the chairman, which I think must have taken on Tolson, too, because of the responsibility on him and the other agencies, but it was done so fast and everything.

Let me ask you, I can hear a cold grudge.

does try to use this, isn't that a pretty good answer?

I think it's totally logical.

It's an intergovernmental study that was made at a time of constraints and so forth.

They made some recommendations.

They were the recommendations and so forth.

But then, based on the recommendation, the recommendation of the program was then

Discontinued, like back when the other interagency group had a policy agreement.

Exactly.

Now, the fourth thing is, as far as we know, that nothing, let's just read the bottom line, happened under the name.

The court did something.

No, no.

Nothing happened.

And what we're talking about, you know, there was an intensification of all of the existing authorizations.

No, none of the expanded authorizations were implemented.

Again, the idea of that thing has to be started out in the Senate.

But you know, through the education of our efforts to serve and other things, I think our election requirement, while I think it was a good thing,

You still feel in the morning that we're on the right track to keep fighting this thing all out.

I feel more strongly than ever.

And I thank you, sir.

What we're getting now is the glorification of this issue.

And it's going to grow and grow.

And our worst conservative virtue is to put the pussy back.

The Ellsberg excesses are beginning to come home.

Are they?

Imagine that son of a bitch bringing in lots of, you know, some government just has brutalized that muskie yesterday.

And then the firearms were beginning to appear back in the Hellsburg thing.

H.K.

Smith.

He got his own wire caps.

Yeah, I said, what in the hell?

Let's don't criticize her life or her legal things.

Lord, he stood up like a man, didn't he?

Oh, he's a fine man.

Well, the crime station, he's a catalyst.

Yeah.

And even you were.

I think I probably was.

I don't know.

I don't know that you were, but my point is.

Henry Baker.

I told her about the NSC staff, too.

And we had reason to.

I'm not going to be worried about the tapping.

It's, of course, the atmosphere that everybody is concerned about, correct?

But on this one, I think it would be, I don't want, and I'd be very, very bizarre to ensure that I don't bother you and you for your 9 o'clock meeting over there.

I'm going to try to put him in that sort of frame of mind and put an idea a little bit

Is that all right with you?

Yes, sir.

All right.

I was going to do the same thing.

You don't have to do any film.

No rush to forthcomingness yet.

We may sometimes do it, but only because we're absolutely convinced that it's in our interest.

We may ultimately feel that we do want to release some stuff, but I tell you right now, I just don't see any value to it.

It's very, very tough for him to lose documents.

He seems to feel that it's impossible for Walters to hold that.

Like, let's just tell him to hold for a while, at least.

He should say, on the national security ground, as it's national security information.

He says the judge will then come and say he'll check out the national security stuff.

Anyway, and if Walters comes under

The way the implication is, it's so bad anyway, I don't want it to come out every now and then.

It's bad.

But he's going to have as much damage as he can do.

He has seen his horror festival.

Right now, yes.

The only, the bad thing about this is the present order to get through.

Is, is that...

Alderman said that the President felt it had gone too far and wanted to go ahead and introduce him.

That's bad.

And then his recollection of the discussion with Greg.

With Greg.

After the inspection, he talked to Alderman.

Which may have meant that I was hurt.

But on the other hand, what does that... President didn't mean it at the same time.

No, no, no.

I'd rather keep it up.

But let's look at the worst.

We've always been looking at the worst.

If it comes out, I'll leave a letter back instantly.

Yes.

Well, you see, in that instance, Father John, they're, they're the ones that are really, that's right.

And, uh, in the act of their doing that, unless it's,

You know what I mean?

But I just want you to keep your old spirit up.

You know, the whole day is a day.

That's good.

We just got to fight like hell.

But at the right time.

The right time.

You know, at least kind of start fighting for yourselves and turning your shoulders.

That's good.

How did you get it?

I was a responsible guy.

Responsible guys are beginning to turn.

You know, we had the Cardinals.

It was a great deal of information.

Well, we had all brought in there to watch the star last night.

They had 20 editors to the letter, 19 of them, raised holy hell, swearing to the president.

I don't know if we had certain letters.

I'm telling you, sir, it's going to turn it in.

And the facts are beginning to coincide with the fences, too.

I don't know how far.

Like what?

This one we got missing.

They found evidence.

That's a solid vote.

That was turned off.

Yes.

Okay, thank you all.

Come in at half your, do your nine o'clock game, which is very important.

And if you and Victor and so forth want to come in and spend 15 minutes with me, you can certainly help me give a look at it, so I will be glad to.

And you and I will probably can't finish up the work necessarily on time.

Start it up.

All right, boy.

Nixon & Haig on Watergate and Huston Plan

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on May 17, 1973

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