Conversation 923-005

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What we have to do is never, until I have what you're saying, until this thing builds to the end, we've got to get some good shorting.

We can't let the client sour to the point that we've lost all of our explosive credibility.

That's why I think that we've got to work with the Congress first, the President second.

I don't know how much we could be out.

Oh, this kind of event today is bad.

It's pretty good.

Oh, it's a good one.

This right-wing, once it's done, is the platform for the offensive action we have to start taking.

I have Conway, the vice president, I have cabinet members out.

Talking and talking strenuously, the issue of national security, the issue of the right versus the left.

We all have to work on the yellow rally, all our congressional types on the end.

You shouldn't get into it.

Not at this point at all.

I've got a straight letter.

I have only one bullet left.

On this one.

I've used one with the whole letter of the speech.

I've got one left and it must be the last bullet out.

Let me ask you.

If I use another one between now and the next time I go out, I'm bitter because she's not alive.

We've got to realize that.

I read it.

I read this number.

The, uh...

Your activity has got to be the business of the government.

It's got to be stepped up outside of Washington.

Outside of Washington.

That's the later thing.

I think a long stay on the West maybe isn't so bad during this period.

I mean, here's where it's supposed to be.

Go ahead and sign the letter, Mark.

After that, after the summit.

Maybe after the summit.

Oh, you wouldn't go before the summit?

No.

Okay, then I had to write the summit.

And I may stay a long time.

Yeah.

But inactive.

Get the rest of us with us.

Get these people.

Well, I plan to spend at least a couple of weeks out there, but my view is, you may be right, because of course I have to have one dinner here by the end of July, but I think spending the summer at a West Coast White House is a good thing.

Bringing the people of this town right here.

Here's where the sickness is.

And there'll be accusations, you know, that you moved away a lot.

They get their way and ask us to go our way from the day to day.

Well, let's have a high day for China.

Am I going for a very, very long and more than a week on the floor?

Yes.

There's no reason to be around here in Congress.

They're going to shut me off.

I'll get the hell out of the sky and jump down.

And some of these press guys, you know, they get...

They're in a different place and talking to different people and seeing a different industry.

We're doing business.

We've got to be doing business.

Oh, I know.

Every place we go, we've got to be doing business.

The way to do business, however, is to bring, always, whenever I go, if I go to Florida, haul a Schultz or somebody down there.

They don't even have to see me, except if maybe Brickle won't call.

But they're there, and the purpose of it is what we've met this morning for the purpose of this event.

The other thing.

See my wife?

Exactly right.

In other words, I never see them socially, but they're there.

The White House is there.

All we have a problem with Canada is how we've known they're in the same cave.

Yeah, that's a good idea at a time like this.

It looks like, well, we can't have half of this experience that you're full of here, but all these goddamn attacks coming in, and they're just,

The theater has been a question of time.

Now we've got the hearings have started.

We're going to get Elliott launched, I think, early this week.

Special prosecutor.

God damn it.

You know, we shouldn't thank him so very quickly.

We're kind of late.

Yep.

Well, now, put the senator in detention.

We're going to ask elsewhere.

Yep.

Absolutely.

Oh, Michael Robbins.

put this so-called, that we must use the time wisely, which is called the presidential statement.

I know the presidential statement is a bad word, but we're not trying to whitewash it.

If you're a white guy, we have to say presidential statement or whatever.

So that the boys get more time, let me say that I did not want to sit until 9, 9 o'clock Monday morning.

Now that gets them all day Sunday and so forth.

No reason for them to hold up to me.

I did the best I could to work around the clock and get it to be the best possible thing that I could get, that I could make my decisions then.

Tell me this, what is, how much is, how much, uh, uh, cases has Art got made of that silly goddamn top-level key here now?

How much has he got nailed down?

Yes, sure we did.

Tell me, you're right over here all the time.

Well...

And he's got the character of the meeting, the reasons for it, with everyone agreeing fully as to why and what the purposes were, unanimous recommendations.

And that's how the meeting occurred, but the recommendations did not occur until much after the meeting.

No, the meeting was set up under the chairmanship of J. Edgar, who recommended the recommendations.

The 46-page paper came in two months later.

It made these recommendations for expanded authorities, which were granted in-house via mental from all of them to Houston.

And Houston then conveyed the decision to the agencies.

And you all have records of that.

They have records of Houston conveying it to their agencies.

And there are also records

I think it was 48 hours later.

I don't think it was the exact time.

When it was recalled, are there records of that, or is it just they find a piece of paper?

Well, there are affidavits now supporting the recall from each of the guys.

There are notes backing up the affidavits in several instances where everybody else made general comments.

And also, Stolten says that it was called back, and he was later...

The FBI guy that was over there said it was called back, his agent.

Why did they say it was called back?

Because of Hoover's objection?

Because Hoover went to the Attorney General and told him that even though Hoover had concurred and recommended these actions, he talked him out of reversing it, in terms of general.

Apparently was a little bit too, because he was not included.

Right.

So he went to you and had to be sent to the defense.

I don't know.

We held a new record.

No, I don't know yet.

We did not have a record of that as of yesterday afternoon.

But we do have a firm record of it being received.

We don't need to say that he's coming down on us and how it was done and so forth.

If we can't find a record for something, we say Mr. Hoover rejected it.

But then how was the rescission from the White House?

The calls for rescission were made from the Justice Department.

They were made by the East.

But they had to be auditable.

Houston did.

Houston called and said it was rescinded.

That's the good.

The same way we're at, it was recalled.

And Houston called and said, well, it was rescinded.

We have to return this study, and it's no longer...

Now, what they did was when they were ordered to return the paper, the 43-page memo, they all, in the usual bureaucratic way, reproduced it and had a copy.

We got one from the CIA, which they shouldn't have had.

And the CIA was saying, that's a typical bureaucratic thing.

In other words, the White House hasn't rejected him.

That's right.

The reasoning was, as I said, it was Sullivan.

I don't know.

But he said, now he has to ask me to know what he's going to verify.

Well, that's good, because it shows the President that it's true.

In fact, the same way he was going to say why he did it, or told him to do it, he decided to talk to Houston.

No, I don't think Holmes has been here.

Maybe he almost got me home.

We should go.

Okay.

That ain't about to be done.

It was done.

It was returned, and I don't know if it was succeeded.

Nothing was ever done.

As far as Holmes has gone under the paper, we know nothing.

No.

Now, there was intensification of existing in the powerhouse, because you had moved their tails and hit this.

I don't think I will say that on the list.

That's good.

And then, in the wake of that, this interdepartmental committee was set up on the morning in which there was exchange of intelligence and internal security information.

And it was a coordinating group because J. Edgar Hoover refused to do his job.

He just wouldn't even exchange it for anything.

Nothing.

There was no... That was basically just an operation and not an operation.

You know?

So, they let him wait.

He had a great gestapo here in Washington.

Screw them.

We should have had him.

Goddamn, this place was leading like a city.

You know that, don't you?

The whole business of the probe and the plumbers occurred back to that apartment.

Yes.

That's right.

That was... As we piece it together... That, of course, was frustrating to everybody.

The years through, and probably the years that we got in, that you can talk people right through their job.

Right, right.

So, then the next thing...

Well, then I got enough papers.

And the wrong papers came out.

Yeah, God did.

And we had major security.

And it was then, in the face of the... And Hoover did not protect Terry Ford for the reasons that we know.

Yeah, and the effectiveness of that, you formed the phone.

I ordered Bruce Sugg, then the White House, to plug our own leaks.

Plug our own leaks.

They did a lot of things, don't you think?

But you didn't know about it.

They planned a lot of things.

They didn't do much very successful.

They planned, for example, one thing I know they planned was to do a second story job off of Brinkley because they thought Brinkley had a copy of the Pentagon Papers.

That's right.

Plus the 68th founding concept, which Houston had always been trying to get hold of.

And they probably did.

It was a very sensitive thing for a bombing bomb.

And they got it?

No, it disappeared out of thin air.

Oh.

We've never been able to locate it.

We were studying it all.

We had to know it because it was pertinent to our negotiations and our authorities.

That's right.

What else did they plan that they didn't pull off?

Well, that's all I've been able to get.

Something about Georgetown, I heard about it.

They were supposed to do some house in Georgetown, but they didn't do it.

And they started bringing together a number of, you know, that's when they did the...

for a job in the departments on certain classified papers where they go over and get cables.

Oh, would you?

Well, they were making studies for me.

I asked them for a study on the bad things.

I asked them for a study on the bombing.

I asked them for a study on the...

I didn't remember those years, but... And the D.T.F.

and the Mr. Don and that kind of science.

I asked for a study.

I don't know what in the Christ the facts were.

This was ever-dependent on papers.

We had to know what the facts were.

Your goddamn rights I have for you.

You see, that was another thing.

That's the way that you really look at it.

The Pentagon Papers distorted the facts.

They did.

Yeah.

So we had to find out what really was right and what was wrong.

And that was all kind of justification.

and I do something like bring him into a psychiatrist's office.

Bringing him to the president's doctor's office is no problem, but it gives a shit if he's investigated by any chance, isn't it?

I'm not complaining, I'm just saying, that's the double standard.

They probably thought there was something there, and they found none.

Something vicious.

Goddamn, this is certainly something.

That's just what you've got to fight, because I just said that, the same thing Ron has said to you, this fight is much bigger than all the issues that have been brought in.

I was thinking every day this week, people come in and say, well, maybe we better talk about resignation.

And, you know, all this sort of thing.

First it was the house.

Did I have a million dollars that I sent over to the house?

And then it was the question of the lower state person.

Then it was the question of the office, the yard, and so forth and so on.

I cannot, you must not, we must not get involved in this day-to-day stuff.

There's going to be shit flying all over the place.

We've got to do the best we can to look at the damage.

I don't want anything to happen to me that I ought to know.

On the other hand, on the other hand, even you should stay away from me.

All the crap that flies in there.

Tell them to handle this damn stuff.

This fact sheet can be a hell of a talking paper for everybody too.

We'll get it to every editor in the country.

We'll get it to every editor, we'll get it to every congressman, senator, governor.

We'll find out that this is a vitally important sheet that I think they should take into consideration and so forth and so on.

I think it can serve very many useful purposes if we get it.

The difficulty with the television speech, too, as I said before, there's only one bullet you can hit with fire guns.

The other difficulty is that even something this week, then next week, there's going to be something else.

No, that's just like inviting, because I can't get up.

I have said, I've got to comment on these hearings.

Or are these court proceedings, if they're included now, I think I've got to stay long in that position.

Of course, I'll comment when I go out to a meeting.

I'll say, by God, I have compliments of my remaining people or something like that, or we're going to try this next year.

But I'm not going to comment on it.

I'm not going to make a major speech.

Do you understand?

I just can't do it.

If I make a major speech, it's got to be a cop-out.

I don't know anything else to do.

What do you think?

It would have to be at a point in time when everything's come together and it would be totally decisive.

Now, now, it would be no more than... We thought yesterday we were talking about this being a decisive thing.

It wouldn't be mine, but as I go down the road, hell, they haven't had mace, they haven't had hold of them, they haven't had a cold, they haven't had a burn.

The big thing aren't there yet.

We've got to wait.

And they haven't had the indictments, you see.

That's my point.

This is not the right time.

No, it's not the right time, but we have to do something because Monday, when these metatons come out, there's going to be a very great surge of heat out.

And if we can get out Tuesday right away, the metatons will be put out.

We'll start putting them out.

Now, if Scott does what he's saying, we'll add to Wednesday before they go out.

If Scott says they can do what he said he could do and that's all to Wednesday, then that works better off.

Well, maybe we just keep announcing by an order of meeting Monday.

That should be bigger.

Probably, but we better wait until we see.

Oh, don't make a mistake, but my mind's assuming we've got...

I don't know if we've got something to talk to the bipartisan leaders about.

That's right.

We have got to respond, sir, to these memcons.

We've got to lay down the rest once and for all.

We have to get an answer out of them.

We've got to say it.

But the point is, I do not want the memcons to come out.

I hope in God they don't pick up for me.

So that it appears that our leaders meeting is a response to that.

Well, maybe I'm wrong about that.

Maybe we say because they might compromise.

I have a sense of these things.

I have decided that the leaders have to hear the whole story.

Yeah, of course, we have to rival one way or the other.

Yeah, we have to rival it.

We can do it if we put the report out.

After we get out, we can bring it on.

If we're lucky, the best case would be to get our story out before the Wisconsin app, because if anybody were to be on our side of the, uh, the working side, they have some bazaars where they can set us.

Yeah, well, instead of us, as far as anybody isn't going to want to hurt you, we're not wrong.

He looked, he looked very much home and in a responsible position and headed home up there.

He's been the voice of responsibility of the assignment.

But your information preserves that they decided to lift him up.

I got this from Helms.

But Helms doesn't know that we have Stennis Murphy in the background.

Stennis told Bazaar yesterday afternoon that he felt he could hold him until Wednesday.

And Bizarre told Stennis of our plan for a meeting in the state.

But not for anybody else.

Not for anybody else except Stennis is here.

Well, we have to live with them then, can't we?

Yes, but we, you know, they're going to be tough.

They're going to play some hell of a lot of games.

would be necessary in any event.

It was necessary because of John.

It's far better for us to get out before John does.

What do you mean, John?

Well, John has told us, you know, he had to make it clear that the president was going to be

No, but you see, in the context of doing that, that's not helping anything.

It doesn't help us.

It helps John, but it hurts us.

So what we want to do is to get, yes, you did do that.

You want to take the initiative on making that public.

But it doesn't fix the war.

And what was all that?

John said there were a number of things, and there were...

It's kind of that people forget that back in that early time, nobody knew what the hell was a scorer here.

Nobody dreamed John Mitchell would have been involved in something like this.

Really.

Everybody loved him.

Nobody in the White House was involved.

They saw these crazy humans in it.

I mean, you know, everyone was in the Bay of Pigs thing.

They do the plumber's operation.

So you had the question of that.

You had the question of...

what they called Mexican money or whatever it was, which turned out to be our own money.

We didn't know it then, but, you know what I mean, we wondered about that.

The CIA, FBI wondered about it.

That's John's story, at least.

That's what he recalls.

Bob recalls saying,

Walter doesn't have all that in there.

He just says that in everything, et cetera, and I understand.

Well, that's the way you write that, Tom.

That's right.

Talking about Walter and that a few days ago, what does he try to do there?

He doesn't try to put the President on the whole thing.

That's just the opposite.

Just the opposite, and that's why he's in trouble.

I assume President McDonald does show that the President was asked

It wasn't all of them.

Yeah, it says that John Bob said the president asked us to doggie this meeting here in the company.

So, and Walter and his affidavit was a present.

He was called by all of them.

See, there's three other companies that those men found that are going to do trouble.

A, the fact that for the first time now, they've decided to be cheaper based on the

B, that you made a telephone call to Greg and asked whether he'd seen water.

And C, the most troublesome, underlying part of the conversation is that why did it have to be water?

Why would it have to be water?

Did I order walnuts or something?

Yes.

That's the way Boss put it out to me.

That Walnuts was to do this.

And then you're called to Greg, and you ask, so you do that.

Because, you know, in this movie, the way that they're kind of gunning down, because you ask Greg, have you seen Walnuts?

That's right.

So these are the three very troublesome parts of it, those men and Thomas, that we've got to get through.

in their proper context.

And that's why we didn't set the stock sheet down.

We would have had to do that if our head were on the floor, but that's quite frankly, I don't think that's a big enough good for this problem.

I feel the same.

Well, I don't think she does.

Let me ask you three.

First, I called the meeting for the reasons that this Bob and John Bolton recall.

Uh, you know, money.

Big things.

It was at the time.

Is this the idea?

It was at the, should this, should an investigation of this sort enter the water gate and slot over into a national security operation?

We knew we had to have that.

That was the one.

Right?

Exactly.

Second, the cause of the meeting.

That was the cause of the meeting.

Second, why do all of a sudden,

But why the call to grave?

Well, the call to grave is not on the map.

But I didn't buy it.

Why did I pick Walters?

Uh, well, I don't know.

That was the third question.

Why Walters?

Actually, the point is, the best answer, of course, is that if we didn't want Helms to do it or know about it, why the hell was he in the meeting rooms either?

We've never done any of those things.

You can't hear that kind of explanation of that.

You can't use it in a fact sheet, and you can't get it hired for anybody.

No one else will testify to that.

That's something that we could testify, or Bob and John could.

But you can't expect anybody else to take that position.

They won't.

Do they think themselves as the young children?

Well, before that matters, I think they have to go on the fact sheet.

Bob said that Walters should go over to Chapter 3 because he didn't.

Why not Helms go over to Chapter 3?

Matter of fact, I probably told him to have Walters join me.

For a very fundamental reason.

Probably.

Looking back, I didn't have much confidence in Helms.

Matter of the exactly what you do, you know me.

Quiet, I bet.

And then I farted third and I didn't say if you talked to Walters.

Well, is there anything possibly that the goddamned man caused?

No.

The only cause we didn't has a question mark after.

Isn't that the problem?

No.

For the man who really stands back and looks at us, all of the things that you, that we're discussing here are very endless.

Eh?

I see how it goes.

John Helms, the two collusion, was a support and could be the executor, sitting right in the same room.

B, when Dean repeatedly gets Walters, Walters stopped him with the mandate for a guy that the President will have to order him.

You, you must stop him.

What was it?

Drag the President into this.

You can't drag the President into this.

And he repeatedly came back, which meant he had no authority.

And it all started to change.

I had to do what he was doing and what he needed to do.

So it was very clear.

And third, even the talk with Ray, except for the question mark, is pretty, is not bad, is it?

No, it's not bad.

Because he said, I want to tell you that some of your people are discerning.

I said, why do you think that?

That was his so-called warning.

and trying to get the facts.

And I said, do you believe the conduct of the investigation all was as high as it goes?

Do I take away handlers or anything?

So they got handed out accounts, but Gray's testimony made it very clear before the grand jury that you did help him to press on.

It did?

Yes, that's what Bizarre tells me.

He said that very clearly there.

Well, God damn it.

Gray sat in that chair when I nominated him.

I said, now, do you have any problems on the water evening?

He said, no, sir, I can stand right up there and be proud of this benediction.

That's what he told me.

Christ, if I'd been trying to keep Gray under wraps, I think Gray would have been a good witness before the committee, as a matter of fact.

You're wrong.

So looking at the menopause, there was great response on the call that I had told them to press the investigation.

Walters will say that Dean can't watch it.

He had no presidential authority.

Yes, sir.

And everything Walters says, he's bright enough.

He's very conscious of it.

We've been counting on that being very, very good.

Well, let me just say the conclusion on the whole thing.

The last of the pillars that we run, that is, the tie and the president convened the meeting for the purpose of trying to have a CIA cover-up.

Okay.

We come out the next day with the facts.

So it's another charge.

To really come down to it, we mustn't panic because of a thing like this.

This is a tough one.

And they got down.

It happens.

The truth is that it's as if a lawyer says, God damn, not a damn thing was done.

There was no CIA covering.

You know, it's like the money thing.

Dean told me about that demand, right?

But I had to do a God damn thing.

We'd be touched by our investigation.

Yeah, but you know, the fact is that we can't sit down there without answers, hanging out and then sitting and waiting for it to come out in the legal process, which no one's prepared for.

Has anybody, for example, for the armed services tried to present our side of the wall or the side of the 17th Drive too?

Yes.

And he's testified as well as provided an affidavit.

That's right.

In his testimony, he made it clear that he turned off every task related by Dean Gregory, and the connotation of that was, of course, that Dean was operating on his own attitude, or at least on his own.

He couldn't cite any presidential authority on his own.

Because I live with the fact that I said you could toss in Walters.

I don't remember saying it, but I'm not going to do it.

And, uh, that's, uh... Well, if I should go, it's your answer.

Because I knew Walters was conducting the investigation for the CIA.

And, uh...

This one is to get that and keep it in context and not let the... By the way, what was that question mark there?

After the words, it doesn't matter how high it goes.

I don't know.

I just really don't know.

And he's not that perfect a reporter because I've now seen students who've been in contact with foreign people, you know, and some of them are right and some are more right.

The way you draw conclusions is from the man's testimony, which is put in its total content.

Well, that'll make a great deal out of that question mark, I guess.

No matter how it goes.

Well, we've got a Hamilton.

A Hamilton?

Hamilton.

Huh.

We absolutely have to handle it.

Because, I, in order to go ahead, there's nothing in the map, Tom, to indicate from Walters to Gray that I, that Gray told Walters that I had said cool of you.

Yeah.

You're sure of that?

There's nothing there.

The only problem is the question.

There's another area that we're going to have to be careful of, too.

We're talking about this.

Whatever changes you have at Peterson, that might be very difficult.

Right.

And we're going to try to invest in national security.

And John is very concerned about that, personally.

John, right?

Yes.

That there was a national security manhole over

But what's he concerned about?

That I told you that?

He was there and he told me to tell you.

John did that.

John did it?

Yes.

He's fearful that it would look like he was doing that.

To say that?

No, sir.

I told Peterson that on the 17th.

John was there.

And I told him, I said, now this is a national security operation.

You cannot, you can go into damage.

You cannot go into national security matters.

That's what I told him.

But the important thing there, again, as Peterson said, told me when we were on this side, is the bottom line that we did furnish to the court

Whatever the fuckers goddamn thing got out of the, out of the hot stuff.

You know what I mean?

The, uh, what was it?

The Oldsburg, uh, the Brickton.

The Brickton stuff was furnished to the court with my direction.

That we have to get to the white paper or the fact sheet.

What I want to do is dispose of every single thing that's been appointed to contention or charge, and give the Presidents side, because they're never going to get your side, Ann, except Ron standing up for the denials and the bigger things, and refusing to take questions on other things, for good reasons.

Well, let me tell you, having just said what I said,

John said enough.

He's protected to him.

John asked me to call Pearson.

He said, look, because he heard that I was going to be called.

He said, it was Hudson who got this information from the National Security.

He was running the pumpers operation.

Whether John knew at that time or told me, if he knew, he told me, at that time that there had been this

I do not know.

I cannot recall.

It's very likely that he knew.

Oh, I know John.

And I know the Justice Department.

The Justice Department had the photographs.

They had it since October.

But I don't know.

But he has to recall Peterson and tell him that any day in the national security area, he could stay out of the discussion behind anything with regard to Watergate.

He could and should get into it.

And I called him in very small terms.

With John's... John, frankly, gives me a hell of a problem.

I mean, John...

Does that worry John, or what?

Apparently, yes, because, uh... You called me late before last, and there are two issues I have.

leading to the meeting with Walters.

We'll carry that.

And two, it's the discussions.

He didn't put it as discussions.

He said the issue that the president put the national security plan on, on Peterson with respect to the plumage.

Right.

I'm perfectly willing to do that.

And after all, at a later time, we took it off because it had leaked all over the goddamn place.

And it said it had nothing to do with the Ellsberg case.

It had nothing to do with the Ellsberg case, as you know.

What I mean is, nothing to do in the sense that the evidence of the so-called break-in had never been given to the prosecutor.

That's my point.

Their query was not relevant.

Peterson so stated when I called him that night, 4-7, 4-17.

He said, has this been given to the prosecutor?

And I said, I turned to him, I said, has it?

He said, no.

I said, it's a dry hole.

I think that was a parent's idea.

Peterson said, good.

That's why Peterson didn't move then.

We've got to get going.

Thank you.

Oh, hi, Rock.

You must be happy today.

You're going to have a great day.

No, I'm not.

Well, there's a bit of a speech there today.

Yeah, I know.

No, it's just a bit, though.

Yes, sir.

So we're all here for her.

I mean, we're all here for her.

Well, what?

That's where it is.

Yeah, I think we should be getting decisions, as we discussed last night, as to what we do with the material when we get it nailed down.

The White House staff, the policy makers, all of the same, the college executives, the Krogh operation, the Plummer operation, the CIA, the high end of the White House, the charge of policy.

uh, that he, uh, uh, that he, uh, that he, uh, that he, uh, that he, uh, that he, uh, that he, uh, that he, uh,

He says, I want to, but I, my view is that we can get that in one goddamn solid paper, that we can view them there by the ultimate bridge of, I say, not the leaders, I say, I want to talk cold turkey about what the hell this is, here are the facts, follow us, I'm looking straight in the eye, and I talk for about an hour and a half, if necessary, and that's all that I give to the human field that is useful with major types and so forth and so on.

Now the difficulty with going on with the television speech on this subject is that, as I see it, is that this week it's all written testimony at the CIA General Assembly.

We don't know what's going to be the reaction.

We don't know what's going to be the recapitulation.

And that's why I tell this to the President, go out and make another television speech.

You can't use the big bullet, two bullet, and have it be effective.

We'll use it without all of it.

Oh, I think that was correct, don't you?

Yes.

I mean, we had to go there, don't you?

Yes, I did.

But, you know, it was about the city.

Which means that's my problem with this.

Given this, we were thinking yesterday, I would tell them, this is it, boys, let's have it out.

This is it.

It would be in their mind.

The heroics are too early.

They're too young.

And we don't know what's next.

I mean, we don't know what to say.

I mean, you don't know.

You don't know whether...

In the meeting yesterday, what we tried to do is to get people thinking and not to rule anything out and keep all options open.

My personal view in all of this discussion is that I would violently oppose

I just want these people to think it through.

Well, not only that, but they may come up with, you know, something.

I think everyone's going to conclude.

A white paper.

Well, a white paper.

First of all, let's start with what we will.

It's a good idea.

Yes, sir.

But the TV speech, I agree with.

I mean, I'll say to you that it's a bad idea.

The leader is essential.

And then second, a white leader is essential, correct?

I don't even like the use of, I've told them, the use of a white leader.

What it is, is basically a statement.

They've been, they've been the president on some questions that have been raised, and just put it out there.

On the reading last night, I was suggesting that Al would properly respond and raise the question.

And because of the security aspects, he says that the only problem is that he couldn't get into the library.

He's absolutely right.

He would have stayed much of the way.

Who should read the paper or shoot anybody?

I don't think anyone really should if they ask questions.

I mean, I shouldn't throw anyone out there against those questions at this point.

That's right.

You're reading paper.

Oh, I'm reading.

Do you think that's a good team working on?

How do you feel about Mazar and Goodman?

Mazar is good.

Yeah, he really is.

Harlow's good.

Harlow met yesterday with his wife.

We're going to be talking to him on the phone.

But it's a good team because it's well seen.

Oh, you can, right?

Oh, you can.

It's pretty well in sync on this.

In terms of, you know, the price.

The price is very much in sync.

Absolutely.

They all have their earth.

Yes, they do.

I talked to them last night.

We've been this morning.

They're, you know, moving.

Moving well.

Well, I don't think they'll have anything for me until tomorrow afternoon.

That's what I was thinking.

Right, because the research and the preparation.

Rather than having a fire drill, like we told them, and I did not mention this to Allison again, we better see it in person.

And also it's good for me, you know, as you say, I've got to, you know, look, look up and everything, everything.

If I, if I, there's a wall in this every minute.

You can't do it.

It worries me more than anybody else.

That's exactly right.

I think the hearing, in terms of today, I think there's no need, look, the hearings are going on today.

We know everything there is to know.

But we anticipate so what?

We talked about that yesterday.

And our strategy said, I don't think you should think about Watergate today.

I want you to think about tomorrow.

What's it going to add?

Yes, the president.

It's very spicy.

I said, go ahead.

They've got five people, and that's enough.

And that baller school, the CIA, everybody will interpret that.

But where's the trip?

They'll interpret that as the president trying to get ballers to do this.

On the other hand, it's hollow and hard.

We can talk about that.

Now on the plus side, Walters later says that D.A.

came to us on vacation and asked the C.I.A.

to put a cover on it and he refused.

Because he said you shouldn't grab the president to do it.

Now I'm ready, but that's basically the theme of Buzzard.

He feels quite defensive.

They're not going to put those out.

Well, they do.

They won't.

Okay.

But if they do, we're ready.

We'll build up the

But I think just to wrap the weekend up, just a nice day, good armed forces day, good speech.

That's part of the strategy.

And I would go to Camp David, as you're doing, and I would think about this.

You know, just don't think about it.

I slept in for an extra hour this morning.

And it's surprising how just your mind clears out a little bit even.

And I think the most important thing that you can do

to the problem that we're dealing with.

I don't mean to sound this way, but I think it's just not the thing about it on Sunday.

No, it's not even so much the appearance, because you never do.

Your appearance has always been one of up-beaten as far straight as this.

And it's a very difficult thing to do, because...

But I think there's great validity, and not even...

picking up the papers.

Don't worry about it.

Don't, I mean, even the staff should say what the papers have and all this.

But other times, that's a little bit of a mystery.

It's just forgiven for a while.

Then on Monday, you can look at the white paper, the statement with the

You know, that's an idea that was just stated, too, with all the intelligence stuff, but I will say that some of these things have been compromised.

That's what I'm saying.

And because of that, I found it very great.

One very, very important point that we'll be talking about the rest of the time, I'm not mentioning it now.

We must not appear to be in trouble.

And that is, any Congress, any written

Those written notes are not their notes.

They are for the present.

In other words, they're there as a note taker for my personal

No, there's secretaries in that case.

I mean, it's just, we talked about this last night.

I said, it's inconceivable.

I said, you'd have to bring the 82nd Airborne in here if anyone did that.

I said, good heavens, the President of the United States paid personal papers.

Unless the President of the United States actually, you know, just going to the extreme, I said, committed genocide.

There's no way that I can get through his papers.

Absolutely.

Now, for my views and all that that has ever reached, you should always say, presently, the president's way of subjecting Gershwin regarding the conversation with regard to papers and notes that were made for his files,

There is a place beyond which you cannot go on a second purpose.

Here it is.

I ain't going to go.

The difficulty with it, you see, is that, I mean, here's some of the voices that are pushing me so great, you know, to be so forthcoming.

I swear to God, they'll have profanity in those notes.

They'll have, uh, that's not the worst.

In fact, you know, we'll sit and discuss it.

In fact, you and I will discuss all sorts of things.

For Christ's sake, the president's got to make the statements.

And the president has to be free to say and talk about whatever he wants to talk about.

Yeah, that's right.

And we need to do things.

We need to not do things.

And I may say, when the CIA do it, why don't they get their ass over there?

We can't stop them.

Or maybe I didn't say it.

I don't know.

But the point is, those notes, I think...

He said, you know, I think one of the problems we may have here in the future, not now, is that these fellows have wanted me to have a policy.

And then here again, you didn't authorize him to do that.

No, no, I mean... Yeah, that's what I'm talking about.

That's what I'm talking about.

No, I know what the question is.

No, I didn't say it.

I didn't say it.

The consideration, the personal considerations will be taken in mind.

You can't go out and offer an explanation.

Let me say, if I had offered an explanation,

You know, really.

Sure.

I didn't do this, but on a thing like that, you'd have to.

Sure.

Absolutely.

See, yes, now I am not very, very likely to be wrong.

They misunderstood me.

But those are the only two of us.

No problem, because there are two men that are with us.

Never discussed any other living single soul.

I think he is the one.

And maybe he is the one.

Maybe I'm calling you on the new things.

I think has already said it, Mr. Dean.

I think so.

What he has already said, there was a discussion on this in an early block, and he'll walk you up on that side and say it.

So these are the distractions, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that.

I feel in myself that this is the time to get all the national security stuff out.

Get it out there.

Separate it from the rest of the stuff.

Get all these various things.

And say, now let's go get a second Watergate.

See, the overall theory bothers me.

Due to the fact that it intends to say, well, these people did Watergate because

I've been serious about national security, and we kind of approved it.

It is true that some of the people who work for national security were made water people.

But wrong.

There was never implied or expressed any approval of whatever by such a dumb, silly, goddamned thing as water people out of this White House.

You know that.

I was cooked up by those idiots over there.

I was out of control.

That was it.

I don't know.

She's a great actress.

She's such a beauty.

Unfortunately, she's fat.

You can see now that the person that you paid for is fat.

They can argue all they want about getting the paper and that's kind of Walter's on the CIA that he made a conversation about.

We'll probably have to give them that.

We will, we'll do.

Goddamn, our guys, our guys cannot give on their own side.

They have no right to.

Right.

They have no right to take Bernie's papers.

Because it doesn't make sense.

Right.

Because it doesn't make sense.

Right.

Otherwise, the president then is going to have to have a publish the longer period.

I got that conversation.

I said to Fred in this meeting last night, I said, now, let me just break this out because we can't

I have the president thinking that this isn't even an issue, and I ask the direct question.

I said, are we talking about at any time an issue coming about where a guy by the name of Sirita or any judge can, in a separate branch of government, put down a court order to have the president's papers produced?

Now, is that what we're talking about?

Of course not.

It could never be done.

And I said, well, we've got to make clear to the president that that's not even an issue.

Well, I hope so.

And that's not what we're talking about.

Oh, no, that's not what we're talking about.

What are we talking about?

Oh, I think, I don't know.

You know, we went on, but I wanted to make sure.

Well, they're talking about the fact that earlier in the call, they made notes in their meetings, and they might have produced their notes, but that's a different matter.

They made notes in meetings with me.

They're not their notes.

That's correct.

I don't think so, but I think Colson would be the best to be in the book.

No, sure he will.

Yes, he will.

He's in his own way very loyal.

Well, I had a meeting with Bob yesterday.

He's a great fellow, John Brown.

Yeah, he really is.

Great man.

And John's a fine man.

Bob is a bit stronger.

A bit stronger.

Much stronger.

I mean, well, no.

I shall remember.

All right, now we discuss my decision.

That's the kind of conversation you have.

I'm sure.

What the hell do you want to remember?

Good people.

What they've done for their country.

In case something happens.

You've got it that way.

Take that into consideration.

Am I offering a clemency or authorizing the offering of clemency?

Hell no.

See, the purpose is the reason you're offering or authorizing a clemency.

Where it becomes an issue.

If the purpose is to keep them, to keep them, I'll shut it down.

What are you talking about?

We're talking about the test, right?

That's the whole point of this.

That's right.

Well, here is a rose that says, of course, it's very smooth and very effective.

It's all here today.

I don't know who I am.

I just talk to them and listen to what they say.

Mixed bag.

No one really focused too heavily on Colt McCord one way or another.

I suppose anyone who watches McCord would get a different view.

I watched him only a short time and

my view, which is meaningless because it's really distorted, was that they cut through his credibility pretty heavily.

Yeah.

Well, just on the way they were probing him, he would make a statement about being off of clemency, and then he couldn't go beyond any discussion with Libby.

But that's me.

What I think American people are going through now, the very few who are watching this,

You don't know who aren't watching it.

Oh, of course not.

The ratings are way down, and so are they.

But on TV, this is the whole thing.

Those who are watching it, they're what they're doing now.

They don't know who these senators are.

What they're doing is, those who are watching the regular, maybe 600,000 people, I don't know, maybe 12 million, whatever it is.

I'm talking about regular.

They're drawing up assessments of the senators themselves.

It's kind of a game for him.

The overall impact on the public.

From a guy like Accord in his testimony yesterday, I bet you could go out and ask people about Accord and have a mixture of reactions, which vary to such a degree you could draw a percentage on.

The next time he's on, they may be able to do it.

For the whole purpose of getting those candidates and those soldiers.

the whole tendency of all this kind of constant arrest and attack and so forth is to erode confidence and presidency and that's what we have to remember and that's why we've got to go out on the horses today and that's why we've got to be in the press conference and that's why we've got to be in the meetings with the leaders to just continue to be present but wrong for the sake of our presidency.

You can't bring it back like once.

It's very misleading.

I mean, everybody says repeat November 3rd.

You can't repeat November 3rd.

They ain't.

Absolutely.

The only thing that's going to make us survive here, believe me, is Joseph James.

It's more like December 18th.

I mean, there, in a very different sense, where we just let the boss tell her, you know, a lot of people wanted me to go out and make a speech about something, make a statement about why is everybody following all this in order to cool people off.

We didn't.

We eventually came out here in this instance, and it's not a positive movie.

This is a negative thing.

Here, we are taking erosion.

We will continue taking erosion.

What we've got to do is to try to stop the erosion as best we can.

among the Congress of people we've got to live with there, and our own leadership, and a few of the press, and survive.

And if we survive, we will do other things later.

And a year from now, except for the trials that we're gripping on then, the whole goddamn thing will be an unpleasant story that most people will not remember.

they will not remember anymore that they remember even here to precisely find out it's precisely my analysis and also that brings it brings it to me in personal in my case it's not easy i mean i have people i'm looking over the average for the last week i've been a day this week it's funny i said the whole seven walters papers are because of the documents

The President's got to consider it possible that we have a presentational impeachment theory that are making an additional toll on us.

We must not stop.

We cannot stop.

There's going to be more of that.

There's going to be more of it.

And there are going to be charges.

There are going to be people who are going to be gone a while, and I don't know what the hell they're going to be saying.

You can't be told what these guys are going to say.

You know, what you say, you see that prison door clanking.

Well, he's got to know that.

I agree totally.

What we're doing with this statement and what form it takes to leadership meetings is putting ourselves in a position where these things that you just stated as a strategy that we can carry on without and have a base to carry on to rest on

For example, once the white paper or the statement, I don't like the word right, put out my briefings, for example, or the briefings, not my briefings, the White House briefings, it's going to be a lot different.

Because?

Because there's a lot of the material, the answers, you have something to base on, something to bridge on.

Also, once the statement's out, press conference, sessions with the press, congress, in other words, it will allow us to loosen up and open up

a great deal, more than we are now, and there's little until hearings are, in other words, the theory that the hearings are going to go, people are going to get tired of it, all that stuff, is a correct theory.

The strategy that we must continue to operate, you must continue in the opposite, is a correct theory.

But in order to do it, we need that bridge to get out of, you know, quite frankly, where we are now, with all of these

coming against us and not having a position or a posture to rest on.

And that statement, I think, will do that.

The statement's going to help some.

But it won't solve it.

No, it won't.

Nothing's going to solve it.

Nothing's going to solve anything while we're here because we forget.

Many of these people who are bitching around now are just fighting the farthest path.

They've been fighting against us since we arrived in this office.

And they're going to fight us on some other issue, not this one.

We know that.

Christ, for years and pounds, was here.

And it became the Viking, the wheel, right?

They fought the hell we were harvest.

And then it became this.

This is a van we went for.

They're going to bite the hell out of us if we got it not.

Because this happens to be quite personal.

And also, the speed is near the edge, isn't it?

Oh, the legality.

Man, the judge is going to get hurt.

God damn it.

Watch your presence, you know.

Screw it.

You just got to remember, we've got a lot of friends in the country.

We agree with you, too.

It's under your eye.

I don't even know that one.

We've still got a solid bedrock of support out there that's ready to round that would not want the president to stay due to the fact that they see the great things we've done in the past and they want to get into the great things of the future.

Perhaps you're correct in that sense.

Precisely correct.

Yes, sir.

Sliding.

That's what I mean when I say, you know, we have to take a move, the moves that we are contemplating now, which allows us to seize that support which is there.

And I think your assessment earlier will do that.

And it is exactly correct that you do not seize that support just in one television speech.

It's a process.

It's all carried on.

Are you able to get across to the press?

They said they gave you a lot of questions, quite a few questions on resignation.

How did that happen?

Did they bring on somebody demanding resignation?

I put that very much in perspective.

Not demanding, just...

Well, first of all, I called their attention to the fact that the reference to a groundswell certainly is not indicated by the fact that Sergeant Shriver, the defeated opposition candidate in 1972, advocated resignation of the man who defeated him.

So I said, let me put that into perspective, first of all, before I ask you a question.

And then I went on to go through the president's

was elected, you know, the mandate he intends to do, and what he was elected to do, and those basic things.

But I did it pretty hard.

Well, when they thought about the Brown Swallow Recognition Award and so on, how much really is it now?

Well, that's what I said.

I said there was no grant as well.

But now, for example, I mean, I guess it's a little weaker, right?

Here again, this is a place that everyone here has to keep the perspective.

Now, first of all, there's no groundswell.

Second of all, the fact that Courtney Sheldon used the Turner in a question in a briefing, groundswell, does not mean that there's a groundswell.

And then thirdly, when I attacked the question, I put down the fact that there was ground for it.

So it's a non, you know, it's a news story, but basically it's a news story which runs that the White House says that the president has a lot to do, and he intends to do it, and won't quit.

That's right.

And, uh, uh, I split up here, and we, uh, president, I'm going to quit.

That's right.

The New York Times says this is the headline.

It says, President won't quit.

Too much to do.

And then it goes into the foreign policy stuff.

That's all we need.

That's our strong point.

That's what Harris is all about.

I just don't want people to get in that mood.

You know, the other thing, too, is about all of it.

I don't know what they have to do.

They have to make an absolute little committee.

A committee's got to be certain.

Oh, sure.

It's got to get, I think, that's the rule.

That's the rule.

I am not for this idea, though.

I don't know how it's so disordinary.

But I hate to make sure that we rot the idea that we want to trigger an impeachment vote in the House.

I don't think the present city of this day and age can survive.

Even if we wanted to.

Which we would.

Which is what I mean.

Now, now if we had an unagent vote for an Osmond who will survive, what I meant is, I don't think it's something that we want to get out to and say, look, let's have a vote of impeachment in the House.

I meant a vote of impeachment of the President of the United States being evaded day on day off in the House of Representatives.

you don't agree well i i agree so heavily that uh i just dispensed in dealing with what we're dealing with that you know i was thinking as you were talking about that what the hell are we even talking about this for i mean we've

You see, from the standpoint of... Well, the point of it is, we recognize that.

In other words, we know some people up there talking resignations and impeachment and so forth.

The worst possible thing we could do is trigger something like that.

But we've got to recognize that they're talking a little bit about it.

There's no groundswell or no move.

But it seems to me what we have to focus on is not

How do we deal with that?

First of all, resignation is not even a viable option.

It cannot be.

Impeachment proceedings, we would win if he ever moved to that point.

We think.

I know.

We think.

What we are talking about now is following a strategy, which we calculated a long time ago.

And that strategy is to continue with the work of the presidency.

And the thing that we're talking about in terms of this statement is not

to pretend an impeachment move.

What we're talking about with a statement is to move ourselves further into a position to carry out the strategy, which is to continue the operation of White House.

I mean, in the government, in the achievements.

That's what this is all about.

And we have to keep our perspective inside here and not let our goal shift, you know, from a strategy of carrying on the work of the presidency

Because that's what will solve the problem, too, putting out a statement for some other reason.

I don't know if I've stated that clearly, but it's something that's different.

I see the problem.

But I think I just have to go up to Camp David and rest a couple of days.

But I think probably we've got to remember that the

remember that they thought it was a great strength of the city over here.

Remember he's the, just the, the hundred and seventy percent that sits in this chair at the moment.

And preserved at all costs.

That's why you don't have any delivery changes or anything like that.

That's why he doesn't make the 18 switches a day.

That's why he doesn't go out and do any restaurants for everybody else.

That's why we don't bring every problem into his office.

Because if he cracks, you see, if he can crack the whole house comes down.

That's the thing that everybody's got to realize.

The tendency, Ron, is for everybody, is for most people to bring their problems into the house.

The other side of that is problems ought to be brought to the president, shouldn't be brought to the president.

Bob and

Perhaps they have not brought something.

I would have done something about it.

Maybe.

I don't know.

John may not have.

I don't know.

Dean certainly may not have.

But he may have thought that he had to bring it through this past session.

I think that's what happened.

Because Dean now claims, you know, he claims that on that August 19th that he was innocent.

How many have we heard?

He used the word Dean's investigation.

I was amazed.

Did he express amazement to you?

No.

Did he express it to anyone?

I had heard this whole business about being investigated, and your report is something that developed at a much later point.

February, didn't it?

Christ, did you use the word being reported to be investigated?

quite big, though, that we do have to keep the man in the chair.

You see, the thing that happened to Lyndon Baines, and, of course, he had an option, because I had an issue, which I could run, was basically brought him to not having any problems.

that he eventually just emotionally couldn't take it anymore.

And he couldn't.

Now, I'm not about that.

First, I'm not a different kind of a person.

I'm not about to do that kind of thing.

But on the other hand, our host is going to think, therefore, not in terms of just bringing pleasant news and very much pleasant news, but bring every problem that needs to be, but God have it, the problem could be handled outside his office.

It should be handled outside his office.

No, that's the key.

The other one the other day, he didn't even have a whole message covered.

Everybody were asking him about that psychiatrist bazaar, you know, the psychiatrist in New York.

And that cannot be revealed as a whole.

It's a goddamn hoax.

That's a hoax, right?

Does anybody?

Does the department investigate it or something?

Yes, they do.

What about the, what about the paper?

Could I ask you this?

What about the bazaars?

What about the, the document?

The health records?

The conversation with Ellsberg, et cetera.

Is that going to get out?

The, uh, the bar tab.

How?

Is it going to get out?

Yeah, right.

This is the right time.

They're working on making sure, as I understood the discussion, that it could, in any way, create a trace.

That would be disastrous.

Hold on.

That would be a disaster.

It would be bad.

Bad.

But, you know... You see, a certain... Not what you just said.

I think, actually, let me say this.

There has to be at least...

There has to be at least a little bit of tenancy.

A little bit of tenancy for me...

Partly it's my own fault, but also partly for the strategy for me.

Problems that are just goddamn tough problems that I can't do anything about.

If I can't help them, I should hear them.

Just like, here's an example in the document.

Why would that be brought up to you when, number one, the facts are not being critical, but just talking generally from the standpoint of the interest of the president?

A thing like that should not be brought to your attention if there's, number one, nothing that you can do about it, if, number two, there's no decision that has to be made by the president, and number three, if there are no facts that the president has on it.

That could have been brought up as something that came about after all the facts were in, just to pass on to you as something that, here's an example of what, picking up on what you said earlier, the president,

The man cannot do all these things.

The staff must pick up the dealings with the Congress and deal with the Congress differently and more effectively.

The same thing with the press.

The same thing with the bureaucracy.

You have set forth a strategy, which you stated now in the cabinet meetings.

You, as the leader and the president, cannot do it.

It's a tone and an attitude created out there in the staff structure.

And I couldn't agree with him more.

And that's what we ended up with, the momentum behind it.

Now, you know, there are various ways to get that done.

But we've got to keep huddling on board.

You should be informed of the fact that we are meeting with the camp rangers.

Well, let me put it, I will constantly be told that every day that, okay, they're going to have a party.

Other than it's the President's fault.

So, he's having a Sunday, and I should be able to do the economic thing.

I appreciate it.

By God, that will be in time.

That's what we're getting at here.

That's what it is.

Archibald Cox.

That's a great... great...

No, I was just thinking about the heavy gun by the name of Archibald.

He's not a very smart man.

And he's reasonably, he is, of course, a heavy man.

And I think, I hope he doesn't try to persecute our guy, if that's all I know.

But that's not the greatest true love of life.

You're right, you think?

Yes, sir.

And all you see around the island is a void.

I'm getting my own script and I'm not going to worry about all this stuff because the person who's going to help me is probably going to be fighting for seconds.

If we're not going to fight.

You're going to need to go down to our office and go out and they'll be like, they've all been hitting you.

Oh, I think you're going to have a good idea about this.

I hear you.

I did.

Uh, he said his problem from ours would be that they did ask him about, uh, water data when he went through farm-growing sheds, and he did not mention anything about the equipment, and their interior vision.

He did not mention it.

The equipment.

No, that's right.

And he really, you know, he just...

Look at the business challenges.

They didn't ask him about it, but he didn't mention it, so I think he was intentionally... Well, I thought he was what bothered him.

He should say, well, the equipment and something was done at an earlier time.

If not, whatever he could want to get out there, occurred if he'd have mentioned it.

Right.

Now, I went over with him.

This was the second time.

He was there once on the phone.

I said, oh, I said, that's funny.

I said, I thought you indicated you didn't sit out in there discussing it.

Well, anyway, we have no problem.

He did.

I would not forget such a thing.

But the point of the matter is that he said to me, we are not involved in wiring.

I don't forget such a thing.

I think one of the problems he's got is that he's told the Senate that he probably never discussed it.

And he's trying to get off of that.

What's his attitude?

Is he ready to resign?

No.

No, he's a meanie.

Absolutely not.

In fact, he said, watch my hand.

He said, and he was quite deteriorating, the fact that my hand was at the head of the mission meeting, and it fell, and it spun up and down the outside of my hand, and it felt as hard as friends, and how bad this all was.

And he said, look, I didn't have it over my mouth.

And I said, oh.

He took over?

Yes sir.

So you never know what he's going to have.

He might have had.

He is an explosive type of bomber.

He'll say things.

But he is a loyalist.

And also I think he wants to be an ambassador and he is a loyalist.

Everybody in the Blue Square is mad.

The greatest fighter in the house.

Well, I've gotten that out as a crime, that you're able to spend all your time holding hands.

I told him, I told him, I told him, I told him, I told him, I told him, I told him, I told him, I told him, I told him,

They said the department of paper was very sensitive and he opened a New York letter.

The department of paper?

He opened a New York letter to the public mail and said, I said, the old way, it is public.

I said, God damn shit, it's not public shit.

I don't want to look, don't you?

The more I hear, the more I get invested in this shit today.

But Neil, look, this man is not very sensitive.

What the crap is this?

that kind of thing very carefully how we uh very careful how we portray the reason that that it is compromised

to national security greater if we did not do it.

That's right.

And god damn it, we're going to stop the Indian window and all that comes with it.

Yes, there is another department of paper that was mentioned as part of it that was just made papers, and that's that.

And they will demand an accusation.

I don't think you give them those.

What do you do?

I wouldn't put them in it the first time if they asked for them after the year's end thing.

Well, let them.

You've got to basically let them ask for them.

Tommy, can I take a minute to ask you a question?

I went over rock reading as the matter of the presentation of papers.

I feel so strongly about it.

You said about the Bazaar and everything, the Hall of Merit that it's got.

I said to you, I don't want you to read it.

I don't want anybody to read it.

The second point is that, which brings me to a very fundamental

You cannot, in this office, sit and talk and have a note taker take notes for you and have that considered to be his part.

Then the presidency is dead.

Of course, you cannot conduct this office.

And I want the sergeant to know that we are not going to give one inch of Easter tail garment and all the rest on that.

He knows it.

We had a discussion yesterday about it.

I said, God damn, that is outrageous.

I don't want to know.

Thank you for the conversation you and I had here at Christ Saints.

They did.

They take his arm and say, well, we're going to end it.

It involves a conversation with the president involving criminal activity other than to come out.

They come with it.

This is not criminal activity on my part.

I mean, this idea of the CIA coming up.

Goddamn, I know that the CIA didn't cover up.

I mean, they didn't cover up.

I mean, you know, the bottom line is support tier two.

Well, he knows.

He knows that that.

I just don't want to believe him.

You know, I think that it's the same for me.

It's an absolute non-starter that everybody can sign.

Second, you see, he's dealing, he's dealing, in fact, with Colson now.

And Colson is the one recording the Hall of the Monster.

Talked a lot about his talk to the President.

He thinks it'll help the President.

I don't mind his talking about his talk to the President.

But I'm going to be sure that Colson's papers, and I don't know where it's due later, and I've got to have him.

I hope he didn't haul the hell out of him.

I don't think, I think the rule wasn't really supposed to hold people accountable.

It was a very clear rule.

It's been a rule in the White House since 1969.

It didn't know what was happening.

These are part of the president's association.

The czar and those papers should be here.

And incidentally, if they are not here, whatever copies he's got have got to be brought here.

Or is that what you mean?

At this point, you know what the hell would get him in our possession?

You could be sure.

My point is, he's got to recognize that he has no presidential papers.

He's got to realize the same thing.

We've got to hold a file on him.

Because the president's papers are on file in the president's office and are not outside his office.

They are in the president's paper.

I think privilege should be taken.

They could say, I have copies of papers, notes that I made in the conversation with the president.

They are not mine.

They're made for the president.

And when we deliver it to the presidential library, they're not available anymore.

We've got to stand like a rock on that.

And I don't want to give, I don't care how innocuous the document is.

The moment you start breaking into that, you remember that crap that they, during the Indian Packers, that thing they got out of Henry, some of his prose, and even some of mine.

You know, all the meetings at that time.

I was usually reading it maybe for weeks.

Imagine what I'm usually reading.

Some of this crap's what I'm taking.

My thing's sustainable.

I don't see how there's any way anybody can do that.

Okay.

To get into that, we hold physical control and that's the important part.

Yeah.

The man has to be smart.

Can I go back to John for a minute?

I think we're doing the Bob next time.

Sure, John.

Well, Bill was our...

He's his responsibility.

Colson on that time.

Yeah.

And his responsibility also to...

We're gonna be working with him again one day, y'all.

This country needs him.

In some capacity.

I don't know what I'm talking about.

I don't know how it's going to start out.

I had an amazing job.

I took a little crack.

I mean, mentally.

Well, he was obviously at the election last night.

And he had a market call to make a decision.

And he said that he was not going to take the rap.

It's been set up.

You set up a whole new White House, right?

Right.

We're true.

It's not true.

I don't feel very good.

That's everything we're doing as a defendant, John.

That's all we can.

You know that?

Yeah.

What the hell is this?

What the hell is that?

I've seen through it.

In case you don't know what the hell it means.

I guess nobody said anything about me.

The way he could.

Except Dean, he's trying to set everybody up to save his ass.

What does that have to do with anything else?

He got an intake, or what?

What the hell is that?

I don't understand anything.

There's nothing on there.

Oh, I think we should see my nurse and try to get away with it.

But we don't ever... Let me tell you this, Taylor.

That Dean had his fucking safe, though, is, is, is, as much as we worry about it,

Turned out that the idea is going to turn out to be all right for us.

I do too.

I think it's going to be an asset because 80 years from now... Somebody had a hell of a thing and I have a feeling that they didn't know what they turned on.

I'd like to say we can't operate under that assumption.

We can't.

But the main point is we knew what was turned on.

We have to always keep our perspective on this thing, and it always helps to stand back a little bit.

When you really get down to it, the whole thing is going to come in closer and closer and closer.

And then Bob and John and Colson are just all down with me.

No.

CDs?

No, I don't think there's access to you.

They had access.

No, that's right.

So when you really end up with that...

Except the last month, he had access.

But then we're talking about... Then we're in a different phase.

At that time, I was investigating myself.