Nixon & Ziegler on Watergate and John W. Dean III

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Sir, I think the National Security focus applies pretty much the way we expected it to be cut out of the statement.

Okay.

Yeah, there's a courageous act to move in this direction.

I think, you know, that

Well, he didn't use it.

He didn't give me any benefit.

I have it.

I didn't bring it in.

I was going to say, you know, we have a lot of people out there.

Yes, sir.

That's right, Scott's going to go out too.

I'm going to meet with Scott after the leadership meeting.

He'll be here, won't he?

Sure, yeah.

Yes, sir.

I'm going to have them suddenly refer to this as a briefing today.

That's the way to do it.

And then get some backfire moving off the hill.

There are ways to do this.

The other thing is that I think we're going to get furloughed back on some sort of basis after the 1st of July.

Yeah.

Thank you.

You know, it's just good.

You know, that's good.

The story was strong.

My story was certain.

The marketing people liked it.

As far as the impression, it was just marvelous.

Oh, there's been some...

Some of the senators also have been...

This all was a part of our statement.

Apparently what has happened is that...

These reactions that we've gotten sent in against the committee might be the initial wild charge

So I would say that, and I won't forget it, if you get involved with Russia, you're going to have to listen to the states.

Now, the CIA, the lawyers, and the cops come out and they're smashing the party.

I don't know if that's true.

Why is it that way?

And the CIA is a very good way to answer that question.

The president's purpose was not to get the CIA into our game, but to keep the CIA out of our game.

He put it exactly that way.

That was the purpose of all this.

And it's not just McCord.

I think it's destroying something.

All of that bullshit that you're back to is a joke.

It's a huge bopper.

Slushy was not good enough.

Can you imagine Slushy?

I don't know.

Huh?

No.

Shit.

I've never heard of it.

He says she does.

No.

But I hear it's denied.

Oh, my God.

It's unbelievable.

And Liz did that hard yesterday, too.

I think it's good to have this discussion, actually.

It's a very good lecture.

Oh, yes, absolutely.

It puts it on all of us on the higher plane now.

I know it's even more than that.

That's what I saw over here.

So...

and the massive counter-attack on the National Security Council.

No, that's, we're going to get that.

I mean, why did that happen?

I'm not complaining.

But I thought that was good that they caught that.

Sure.

Well, they're going to refer to this as a counter-attack and support.

Well, sure.

It's what it is.

One point that I, in our statement that I told you that I had,

I'm concerned about it in terms of your being able to respond to me too, but I wanted to be sure you understood.

When you were working on that cover statement, I was sure I had it with Christ and so forth, but I didn't mean to use your statement.

I also didn't use the statement itself.

The question, Ron, of when I knew that moms were being raised for the defense, did you know that we have...

But I am confident that I must have had some knowledge earlier in March.

No earlier than that.

I don't think maybe the 15th.

Knowledge in the sense that Dean could have read the question, you know, of the grant of all of us, $300,000.

But he called all of them problems.

Problems.

And I don't come up with anything about that.

But he could raise that issue.

And the fact that his concern about the so-called cover.

It wasn't until the 21st that he walked in and said, look, Mr. President, they're trying to blackmail us.

All of our whole discussions

from the money he gave me up until the 21st of March were frankly about the Watergate itself and how we kept people in it, whether the White House was involved in it.

Not about the aftermath, so-called.

It was on the 21st of March that he came in.

He said, I think you've got enough of this.

You've got to try to get the right of the people in court.

And it was on that.

Now the problem that we have with this is that I don't

I don't want to be, I don't want to be caught in a damn lie, and I don't want to attend to a lie, you know what I mean?

And, uh, I don't know how you and him, I don't know how it will come up, I mean, understand, let me say this, my mom didn't press me for any of my surgeries, any of my surgeries, at the department earlier than the 21st of March.

what we have in the statement now is until i began my investigation on the other hand you have nailed it

But it was the 21st of March that I took off independently.

Basically, that's what I mean.

I think some of the things, first of all, the initial discussion, even in, I don't recall the precise dates, but in the March 21st or even before

paying these guys because the attorney sees and keeping their families going.

Now, any discussion of money was put in that context.

Now, your reaction may have been... Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

That's what I'm saying.

No, but my point is, we said I had no knowledge.

I think the...

I think the statement states categorically that I had no knowledge of funds being collected for

That is what I was referring to throughout.

Funds being raised for the purpose of cover.

I wish we had said that in the statement, but we didn't.

But do you see my point?

I have March 21st sounds as if it hasn't done with regard to cover.

It was only then that Dean came in and talked about cover.

You know what I mean?

Not what I'm wanting for purpose.

Or he's saying that

up to that time, there was all talk of funds.

Let me say this so you can be sure.

I didn't know about any funds before March.

Before March.

Remember, I kept telling you that on March 31,

This discussion was raised, you know, you know, discussions were being held with this intervention about, well, what about this transfer of $350,000, you know, because we were wondering about two of that, you know, and all of that.

But never in terms of, we didn't say that, I mean, good grace almighty.

rather than no knowledge or any knowledge.

And it's also part of the dilemma that the president faces.

Not dilemma, but argued from a positive standpoint.

The people who were discussing the raising of the matter of funds for compassion are referred to it prior to the March 21st.

Look at the basic knowledge they had in that discussion.

You see, this theory is beginning to take on an entanglement.

What do you mean?

The theory of if you put five people down

and make reference to, I mean, to paper lawyer schemes.

He also had in his mind the fact that he had directed Caulfield to go out and see McCord and all the rest of them.

You didn't know that.

See, now, that is a theory in terms of...

He never told me that he controlled Caulfield.

Of course not.

I didn't know that.

Of course not.

See, and this is the best

He didn't tell me, he didn't tell me he was a dirty burglary.

That he had spawned the burglary.

He didn't tell me he had spawned the burglary.

But he also didn't tell me that he'd gone to the conceding with that cock and bull idea of putting them on the payroll.

Also, he didn't tell me that he had decided to be part of the one that they break in.

Where was he at?

Yeah, he told me that.

No, but not until March 21st.

No, no, he told me that before the 31st.

Oh, he just told you that until March?

Huh?

Until March.

Well, until the 1st of March, that's true.

I didn't see Dean until the 28th of February, the 27th of February.

And then, my 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th, 12th, 13th, 14th, 15th, 16th, 17th, 18th, 19th, 20th, 21st, 22nd, 23rd, 23rd, 24th, 25th, 26th, 27th, 28th, 29th, 30th, 30th, 31st, 31st, 31st, 31st, 31st, 31st, 31st, 31st, 31st, 31st, 31st, 31st, 31st, 31st, 31st, 31st, 31st, 31st, 31st, 31st, 31st, 31st

The guy

And it was, it was.

With regard to the, how in the world can Ellsberg try to tie in with Regis?

No, they're referring to a meeting held on April the 30th.

Oh, Crowe's meeting.

I mean, Crowe.

But Christ wasn't.

Tell me about that meeting.

I haven't heard about it in a while.

What happened to Crowe, Lucy Richardson, or what?

his office on the 30th.

And Richardson went there on the 30th.

And Richardson went there because he had been asked to come there because Craig had something that he wanted to tell Richardson.

But they're not involved.

But, uh, and don't be cute about it and say, yes, my president was aware of the stories, the news stories, the reports, the fact that funds should be raised, that, you know, the kind that you're receiving, uh, funds.

But, but it wasn't the funny version of March that his, that he...

as the fact that, uh, that, uh, I had no knowledge of that.

That's where you could be questions.

However, the monthly marches, these, you know, some of the news stories and so forth, I, uh, I, uh, you know, I, you know, I, you know, I, you know, I, you know, I, you know,

yes i did you see that

Yeah.

Nixon & Ziegler on Watergate and John W. Dean III

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on May 23, 1973

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