Nixon & Haig on Watergate and John Dean

They can have an orgy exploring whether or not the county chief has the right to order things at the... Well, you know, I tried that for the leaders of America and so on and so forth, and I think all of these things could have been possible without a secret security.
It was a first pass.
That was very, very well done.
It was perfect.
Well, it's got to go out in parallel with that.
He's still working on it.
He says he hopes to get it on for a second.
He's saying they are a problem tomorrow.
You know, it's a big chance they're going to tell you where he is today.
I'm kidding.
I'm kidding.
But whether or not you should have it then, I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
But in terms of this whole business, Sal, I don't want you to get down to, you know, we worked our ass off on this thing.
We got it.
Within a week, say, I'm going to get another statement.
You understand?
Now we've got to do this or that or something.
Because what we will do is to just put out the fires as we go along.
But stand firm on the mandate statement.
Another thing is, well, we don't want to be blinded by anything that comes up.
It's due to a sensation.
Charges and ordeals occur.
Let's take them.
Recognize the fact that we expect you to do it.
And let's say, God, now we're here to fight.
We're not going to throw it all right out of the park.
That's great.
That's the way to do it, and not to go into panics and say that you have to do this or that.
You fight your case out now, and it's there.
The other things that come up, these charges, sure, we'll have to respond promptly if they're that serious.
But we have a base from which not to be rattled.
The point about these other charges is I think we're not just going to canvass it.
It's a lie.
The only problem, the major problem you have with our, in this area, a major problem is when you think of these damn voters, the outcomes of other bad comments people may have.
Those can read very bad.
But what the hell can you do about it?
Yeah, right.
Yeah.
Fortunately, I have very few meetings, very few meetings.
I mean, I've met with a very young one of you, only one, and never another.
I've met with a very young one, and I've told them many times, and I've told them many times, and I've told them many times, and I've told them many times, and I've told them many times, and I've told them many times, and I've told them many times, and I've told them many times, and I've told them many times,
Of course, that's the beauty of not talking to too many people.
You don't have to have a lot of money to talk to too many people.
You can have a clear picture.
You can have an unmanageable problem.
I think we're in a much stronger position than we were two weeks ago.
Much stronger.
Do you have something to say?
Because we're getting this paper out of the door.
Are they taking the paper out?
No.
We just didn't know before.
If he had it, it's very much more.
He's got something in his head.
Oral charges.
That's managed.
Oral charges.
And also, his memory and conversations he had with me.
He'll have that.
He'll feel that.
But I think there's...
That would be that bad or it would have been hell.
I just really believe that's... Christ wouldn't... That's when the alarms are dead.
Also, we have to bear in mind the fact that blackmail didn't work.
Because I'm messed up.
Now, we mustn't be concerned either about any of the people in the bureaucracy, but, uh, Helms, we will remember.
And one of the things he asked before us, that was, uh, you know, let him know that we're through, uh, such and such hand in arms.
Right.
Right.
That's all he needed.
Oh, yes.
I talked to him, and he's...
He is for me.
He's given this guy notice, you know.
No.
Why?
He didn't tell him why.
He said, I just had no confidence.
So I cried again.
So I mean, he did the right thing.
This son of a bitch is...
He's just been...
He's the source of an awful lot of the heat that developed two weeks ago.
He probably tried to take out a lot of stuff, didn't he?
They don't have this again.
That's what happened to me.
Oh, my God.
He hasn't got anything back now.
He's got a spirit.
One such thing as wiretaps.
That's fine.
That's another.
Boy, I love to fight on wiretaps.
I love to fight on a plant.
Even the farmer's army does.
I had told them I ordered that they use any means necessary, including the legal means to accomplish this goal.
The President of the United States can never admit of that person.
And the way he stated it is that I invited them, I pressed upon them the insurgency, and highly motivated people to pay as well.
Well, the reason that that was in there, as the Czar told you, I thought he was finally supposed to agree.
I had held a fight with him before.
And I finally said, well, let's just go in and see the President.
And he put it in.
But he was satisfied with the line?
Yes, he was.
He didn't say anything.
He just wanted to be the thing that we could stand on.
Well, let me tell you that.
It's a political and managerial standpoint.
That one phrase could knock this officer out of the party.
Now, there are people, maybe you can go out and say it, but I can't go out and say that I ordered the use of these means or that I condoned it.
Is that a shame?
Yes, sir.
I've got to say I didn't order it.
I didn't order it.
I had to deny it.
Okay
Hang on a little.
Wear it out.
Well, anyway, as I say, we've just got to fight our battles.
Be present.
We're going to get our car.
Yeah, we can go behind that car.
We'll try to take the whole Watergate bunch and try to...
I mean, they come there and say, you know, we don't talk about so many things at all.
It's like they live in a dream world.
All the time you get in that.
The other thing I was going to say is this, that the curious thing is that I had talked to Lou Bryce last night.
He had come, I'm sure.
He said he would come part-time now.
I don't know.
I don't know.
And what I have in mind right now is this.
He's written to me as a counselor to the president.
I'll report to him.
And then let him frankly handle all the political crimes.
Basically, he can also help in a big place, in the House, in the Senate, where Terrence Meade's home.
And he'll take that off of your shoulders.
I don't want, in other words, to consider George Bush under the U.C.
I'd like to keep you away from politics.
And you'd like, in your career, I mean, I hardly just want you to stay out of it.
It's better anyway.
Price is a politician.
And so we'll let him be, he can be, he'll push his hand and he can work with that and so forth and so on.
How does that sound to you?
That's an idea.
And then you've got a good team there.
And he can also work with people like Lowell Water and the Vice President and people like that.
You own the substation.
Bryce can be the hand holder and so forth.
I think that's what I have in mind.
So I want you to make a deal with him as soon as you can.
I just wish you didn't have that talk.
I'm trying to tell him the meeting right now.
Well, we could even make the announcement now.
If you would try and say he's making an announcement, he's going to come part-time now, effective the first of July, this would have a dramatic effect.
You see?
that some of those senators
But the reason, when I say version, the reason that I think that the hearings and the slashing attacks from the president finally got some of our own people, sir, am I over, I don't mean that, I'm just exactly right.
And I just think that's why the client for this thing did it, and it was good.
It was at the time, it was good.
In fact, Holly, it was good to look at it on their own without having to wait for this.
They said, damn it, this is not too far.
The other thing, yesterday, for the first time, we had a real circus on the testimony.
One guy cutting the other guy, one guy and the other guy's totally discrediting the popular court answer.
You see, that's the kind of thing that does coincide when people see a court testimony.
It's unbelievable.
He's stuck with me.
He says to God, man, man, I'm a liar.
He is a great sinner.
His messenger tried to ship for his messenger.
He probably had the slightest idea that I was supposed to never talk to you, son of a bitch.
True.
He didn't know me.
Never did stop me.
But they're killing themselves, these bastards.
And we're, the more of those excesses we get, the better.
Oh, I love this video show.
everything you said in there, how much you're the president, you know, John Dean and all the other assholes, but some of our own people, like you said, young, and others are, you see, hanging out there.
This is always the possibility.
I mean, we take a mental call and so forth.
Now, we've got calls that are, what you're supposed to be in here, and I saw Colson's smart enough not to make it, but he's got it, he's got to be it.
You see, one of the great things about this statement that you put out yesterday, and it's not realized yet, is it totally flooded these large memcons, only one of which has come out.
When the others come out,
The answers are all in this paper, isn't it?
So, it's real bad.
It was not really, uh, as it has been in the last year.
Yeah.
That's right.
You just read that, that whole thing that's bad, the bad ones.
So, the only part that doesn't come out of those big cons will be the good part.
We just can't worry about everybody around this show.
Right now, we've got to do our job and contact them.
This is the first.
They'll get there right now, I'm sorry.
We'll see, we'll see.
One, too, is with regard to the whole press conference thing.
Let's not decide that until we see the weekend, I think.
The whole business about the press conference and so forth, you want to remember, the country is panning for a press conference.
It's these guys that are.
You understand?
Well, they're... Everybody's answer, psychologically, is let the boss go out.
And down there, and shoot the day balls.
The other thing I was going to say is that
One thing that we already prepared for is this, which I had some of the leaders of the committee raise yesterday, was this idea that the horrible race that would have been here, that apparently each of the leaders talked about, was the name that I would have to testify before the Irving Committee.
Now listen, now this is one thing I should draw on.
The President of the United States had to testify before the committee.
People are going to agree.
That is, that's just not even worth discussing.
That's just crazy.
Wouldn't that be the moment?
How do you do that?
If they want information, it will be furnished.
You know, but I'm not going to be testifying for their argument.
I'm not going to say, I'm not going to be under a rule to do this or that.
I'm not on trial.
You know what I'm saying?
I'm not going to be a witness, you know, about this or that or the other thing.
They're going to get that line, but I want you to be sure that none of our guys
I've never heard this until last January.
Bush, he said, stood up and fired him.
You know that oil thing?
I was wondering when your economic guys are going to be ready for their meeting, not for Friday here.
Is that right?
I don't want to waste time with Schultz on that one.
Schultz said he would have a memo with the proposal here today, this afternoon.
He had testified on the point.
I didn't want to come in and talk to everybody.
It's a little trickier than it should be.
But we're on top of this now.
One thing I wanted to ask you, sir,
A flame has been pulled out of a lot of things.
I didn't know whether he wanted it that way or whether I could... Look, let me ask you this.
You're a surgeon.
Do you have confidence in the place?
I do have confidence.
All right, good.
Okay.
Use it.
Use it as much as you can.
We worry about it, actually, because of his... That's all right.
strong, you need to stand and use your resistance.
Let it work for you.
That's what we're talking about right now.
On the economic side of it, when should I have my meeting?
That's my point.
I don't want to have a tomorrow.
I don't want to do it.
Because I think that tomorrow's going to be a very hard day for me.
I've got to prepare for that break.
I've got to shake hands over two or three hours and have a dinner.
I want to meet them.
That's why I've kept it clean.
That's right.
If they want to have a cap, we didn't have a cap.
We don't have to have a long cap.
I think we should make the cap and say, look, this is a, this will be one hour.
And why don't we follow that with the economy and get these guys started.
How's that sound to you?
That sounds good.
That sounds good.
Yeah.
And like 830, 10 o'clock, you know, maybe.
He's got everything that's needed.
He brings him in one day.
Yes.
Well, I've already been...
The Spanish part of the people have gotten to talk very positively and so forth around the world, and he's mentioned it, and Scott handed it to me.
That's great.
Because, uh, and I've been answering Rush all week.
He's been giving me progress reports.
He's had some ideas over there.
We've got to get into this.
I just passed a word to him.
Scott feels this way.
Don't be defensive.
Be very strong.
When Rogers gets back, you better have a little chat with him.
This has to be done by then.
Henry can't talk.
No, no, you can't go to the other end.
When he gets back, he's got to start talking about some of what you want to do.
That's right.
I want Henry to get off of it.
Don't get on this national security stuff.
That's all covered in the paper.
Henry should say that too.
That is right.
He's got to defend it.
He's got to defend it.
But I want him to start.
You see, we all have got to start talking a little bit about our issues.
On the new meetings, let's get that in some perspective.
Well, we've got some here.
The evidence of using our enemies to go so far as to want the Russians.
He needs it very bad.
And it's going to take a while.
You know, there are many questions about that.
Well, that's a New York Times memo on our... Brian has a very interesting theory, which is that he's not trying to use it.
Maybe he's trying to use it.
But it should make us feel that things aren't going to be how they're going to be in the future, right?
Uh, he says, and he is, you remember, he says, this issue, he says, has no legs.
And he said, uh, he said, he said, no, it's making a hell of a lot of progress with people that has no legs.
That's the point I was making two days ago.
Cambodia and its others had emotional roots in the people.
This doesn't happen.
This is a fascinating passion for my life.
Well, it is.
But my point is, from now on, we have got to make our days as best we can and I'll work all day long until the day.
But let's go.
Let it pull us down.
And let Bazaar understand the reason, because if we, and it's not me, that naturally, I'll have to do it.
I've got to keep my own spirit up, because what I want you to do, I don't want Bazaar to understand.
Leonard, if you live or die, there's a little problem there.
There's a little issue over there.
He's pretty good.
He's good, yes.
And so is Lenny.
Lenny's fine.
And Lenny's a good guy.
And I haven't felt like yesterday.
Right.
He's got a liberal constituency.
Right.
I believe he's believing.
He's believing.
What would be bizarre for us to fight in a, you know, in a tough gutting thing to associate with the legal parts of this, you know, this thing?
Well, the whole, the whole nature of it, the whole nature of trust in your committee is kind of the cover.
It's not just the CIA cover.
That's what I mean.
The CIA cover was a non-starter, but it's the money cover that has their own credit.
and all that, and that's to put John's problems, Bob's problems, to a certain extent in his mind.
Because basically, well, I did not know of it until March.
I learned of it then, and then set off on this thing.
I never approved of it, but I gave it a thought until the retirement.
And I said, let me say, yes, yes, I would say, well, I don't want to put a statement, because I'm hanging, Bob and John.
I know that while they may not have been, the bunks were detained in one place or another, and the bunks at some place later had to pay for that nurse, because these bastards went.
Yeah, yeah.
And that's the point.
Okay.
That's where you're right.
That's where that's the same tone when they come in here.
The rest of the stuff's all... Yeah, it's more noise.
It's more interesting.
I think our state, you've got to hear this, uh...
We did something, didn't we?
We did something.
It's all we have to do.
We've got to bring it all together.
We've got to bring it all together.
But on the other hand, from that time on, we did our best to try to get to the bottom of this.
Dean, I am now convinced, Alan, he did it probably because I'd rather think Mitchell was the guy, rather than over here.
I'd rather think so.
I have this, this feeling that I have of mine.
But he did tell a lot of things he never told me about, even when he came in this order.
On March 9th, first to say, basically, he could tell me to let their colleagues, Mr. President, but he didn't tell me about his supporting courage, Mr. President.
He didn't tell me that.
He didn't tell me that.
He didn't tell me about his attempt to get the CIA involved in this.
He didn't tell me about the fact that he had all the erections of the, the, the, the authors of the exact same clients.
He, no, he didn't tell me.
So, you see, my point is, we have here a fellow that was deeply involved in this whole thing.
who ironically now was trying to drag everybody else down with him.
But if he knew all these things, why the hell was he?
Where the hell is he?
Even when I saw him in early March, he didn't tell me.
I said, what's the March?
And even when I saw him in March, he never told me those things.
In other words, I love all of them.
He was still keeping that in mind.
And I said, we've got to get him just right in bed time.
Your paper is going to really lay it to him when these men come.
Now, they may be so defused that they'll decide what happens to us because the paper is answered every potential charge in one act or the other.
Well, I thought they already put out the first one.
They put the first one in.
But it's funny that the others haven't come in.
The others are our deans.
Where the factory is the second one.
They didn't put that up.
They haven't put that up.
Well, I didn't do that.
You've answered that.
And the worst part is they haven't put up the discussions with Dean, who's the son of a bitch in the wood fire.
Yeah.
And that's all hell, she said.
That always happens because that's where Warren's repeatedly said, God damn it, you are trying to drag in the president.
But, you know, we want that up.
Sure, we want it up.
But you see, in the context of the whole, without our having said anything, the overall impact would have been a disaster.
They've selectively leaked the first one, the meeting.
All the subsequent ones, they've only leaked a piece of the greatest...
But they haven't without the fact that the deans of all the deans have come.
Sure, all right.
I hope they do.
Well, let's hope they do.
One day, they were grounded.
They were spending all the time on that.
He's got all the balls in that big paper.
That's great.
That's great.
The four major people recommended it.
Helms' name is on it.
Hoover's name is on it.

Nixon & Haig on Watergate and John Dean

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on May 23, 1973

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