Conversation 929-010

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Sir, that was a hell of a movie.

It was really good.

These guys, you know, they were on ships before me.

They walked out of that with a feeling that it was very worthwhile today.

Yes, sir.

Well, we just gave it to them straight up.

And, you know, hard-headed.

We're running this damn country.

That's the thing that got the feel here out in Hollywood.

We can't be that defensive or something like this.

We're in a political gun fight, and that's what this is.

We're not going to let them get our gun.

They cannot walk out of there without a feeling that there are great things to be done.

And we don't look for a battle.

That's right.

No, they could.

Yeah.

Of course, you would be in a, they're only in for a real son of a bitches.

I know.

They make a lot of noise.

A lot of noise.

And then Fulbright sat there just agonizing because he had her in a car, lodging.

That's right.

Decisive goddamn making of the truck.

That's right.

I talked to Bill, you know, Senator, he was there quite a time.

Yeah.

I didn't raise something, of course, with him, but I had a good talk with him about the whole thing.

His spirit is good and so forth.

I think he, I just think he probably has in mind, not doing anything, not changing anything.

I don't know what he said, maybe he could help with that.

But I think what we decided this morning is the right approach, except that I would bring him along rather than say, look, we've got to talk over this problem, talk it out, and what can we work on?

Or do you feel the best thing is just to talk?

You're a good judge of Matt Allen and Bill Rogers.

Well, I think if we give them too much brain drain, you'll never let go.

Right.

I think that...

But you just better talk about this.

I think it would be better to be...

Pretty candid.

Firm.

But firm in a good way, and not in a way that allows them to... We can have more discussion on it, but I don't think we should... Save patients.

Right.

I agree.

I don't know what his line will be, but I suppose it does.

I think it will be that he takes the other stage and comes watching.

What did you say to that?

I said to Nancy that it's necessary that he leaves because of us.

It's the problem with ensuring that Henry is engaged and effective in the inner security.

which is a difficult one.

I spent four or five minutes with John this morning.

He worked all day yesterday, eight hours only, economic time.

He thinks we should have this meeting.

He said it's not going to solve the problem, but they had some fairly spicy suggestions.

The reason would be completely on the internet.

Not McCoy, there's another man in government that he mentioned who was, he said, very good, former president of Shell Oil.

And then there's a former president of Texaco that he recommended.

He said, you don't have to have a man that the industry, also that the skill knows, knows the business, knows the business.

That's what I think.

McCoy's problem is that he's so goddamn old and talks so much.

That's a problem you've got with him.

It is.

And he's, uh, you know what I mean.

I guess he'll be timid all the time.

He's a great ego.

On the other hand, the guy who's gonna put in under Bacon, he's the best man in the business.

He's leading the protection of Shellburg.

No, he's a, he's a man that, uh, worked out of Flanagan.

Yeah.

And he's a conforming service officer.

Oh, yes he is.

But he feels that has to be done.

He said that in the stash, he's concerned that Ash is sucking up too much power.

He's actually aware of this, and I'm like, he is.

And I'm very aware of it, but I have time to move.

That's not the only first reason to this.

No.

Ash has a personality.

He's not a good man to have a lot of power.

He's mistrusted on the Hill.

And he's mistrusted in the bureaucracy.

And the bureaucracy.

I mean, I know John's views are the same as mine, after he's assessed it.

And that is that our biggest problem is the bureaucracy.

These guys have got to be with us in the forest.

I know.

And we've got to work with them.

I know.

That's right.

That week made a lot of headway, huh?

Yeah.

Ed McMahon was the reason for Canyon first.

Republicans on the Hill, and there was, God damn, there really saw that.

Yes, sir.

Jerry, you walked out of there yourself.

You said it was a different run.

You did?

I think we're getting there.

Now, within our own family, we had some reorganization today.

I got submissions from everybody, and when I looked at them... What did you read about them?

about internally.

I think we need one guy from the domestic side.

I think we'll get to him.

I don't think we'll ever shoot him.

Cole's good.

He's a hell of a fighter.

Yeah, he's good.

But he likes to clap.

We get Bryson.

That's going to be great.

Bryson's a hell of a fighter.

particularly to handle the handling of Al Lester.

He can talk to the George Bushes and to the congressional guys and the rest.

He'll take all that right off of you, just like how he talked to Agnew, for example.

That's right.

It's that sort of thing.

If you want to get the hell off your back feet so that you can do the things that I want to do.

Yes, sir.

That's right.

And that's the, he'll do, he'll play an elder role, but we also need a

a Florida manager guy or Ashes people, whenever OMB gets into policy, you've got a great danger because that seeps into the bureaucracy.

These guys are at every level.

And they sense OMB is a policy-making group.

You've got great, great unsettling.

They've got to be the fiscal managers, they've got to be the police force for sound management practice and consistency.

You know, one man was going to say it was good and confident to spend all that time, wasn't it?

Dan Reingold, yes sir.

He's really trying to help.

He is trying to help.

What do you think he wants to do, stay here?

I think he wants to stay here.

I don't think he wants it now.

He'd be the greatest colleague in banking.

He shouldn't come on now.

He sure doesn't.

Also, he's got to get himself.

He does have this conflict problem.

I mean, he'll just keep running it right up his ass.

But he fully agrees with what we're doing on the streets.

He can't do this.

Well, we don't feel fine about it.

At least...

He's older than me.

He made some progress as an attorney in psychology this week.

Yes, he did.

Yes, and he thinks now that very soon, when you're getting out in the country with a platform, where you would meet with labor people, grants, and other workers over here, some farm people, some beef people,

And to do this regularly, to get out and talk about what we're going to do.

We're planning that, of course.

We've got a week out for next.

That's a good plan for him.

And we should put more in.

Operating from the west coast, we should get out.

Oh, yeah, from the west coast, I can do something every week.

See, he said the same thing.

He said, get the hell out of Washington.

Get away from this Washington.

Take your program to the people.

because that's where your greatest strength is.

And of course, that's why he didn't say anything I disagreed with.

He's much more measured and precise now in his assessments.

The first week he was here, he scared the dead out of me because I thought it was a fun moment for a public collapse or a public panic.

Yeah, well, he's the way he operates.

He's not in favor of the grass to get out of here.

Well, he's probably been affected by the fact that the market went up for a couple of days.

These guys are all affected by it.

What the hell difference does it matter if the market went up or down?

Wall Street is different.

It's like...

Don't let Wall Street infect you now, really, I know.

Ross Perot called me up the mountain and said, sir, let's do bad.

So I did Ross Perot.

He's three times.

He can handle himself.

We can't hold his goddamn hand.

We didn't.

Some of the people around here tried to get him to help out.

That's pretty good.

My point is, I feel that on Wall Street, I'm not going to be knocked off balance for them any more than by this Congress, or maybe by the Washington Press Corps.

And you see, one of the troubles of Arthur Berners, he's always affected by Wall Street, by the Jewish community, particularly.

Arthur always says, we've got a confidence crisis.

He said it at the time of the handball game, where I told him, he said,

We got Cambodia over, it all passed.

We got Cambodia over, it didn't pass.

It wasn't the confidence.

Sure, the confidence factor thing is an ersatz thing.

Now, believe me, if you've got a confidence factor, why the hell are people buying?

You can't have a non-confidence factor, boom.

Sure, they say, but we've got polls showing that people don't have confidence.

This is not all, I'm not trying to just plead George Shultz's case, what I am saying.

We've got to take a goddamn hard look before we just go panicking off because a few people around here think there's a lack of confidence.

Did Connelly have a chance to read our paper from last week?

Did he see that page?

Well, I talked to him about it.

Oh, you did?

I said, I hope you understand the character that Pickford wanted in.

I said, we had three high-priority things to do in the first three weeks here.

First was to get the candidate back and functioning and confident that they're there.

Yeah.

Second was the Republican leadership, and they're there.

And third, I said, most importantly of all, was the case itself.

which we were being beaten to death daily with a new crisis each day in the newspaper.

And that's what was causing the view of stagnation.

And quite frankly, everyone's entities were being consumed by it.

So we did that paper incident, you sure know, and we defused and preempted a very serious set of loopholes.

It was a lockbox, really.

It was a lockbox.

So, an odd plumbers operation with another.

So he, and he said, he said in the case of you I know, he said that if you're going to stay it has to be next.

Perfectly if you're going to do it.

He said this is never, never going to happen.

No, no, we were going to change it.

Absolutely.

And I think we got to bounce that goddamn song.

Well, we ought to put that in the same package with next week if we can get the others.

Now that's something that he had.

Is there any compromise you can make on the Rogers thing?

Let's talk about it now because I really don't think there is.

I think that draining and sucking in good judgment and energy to manage that problem is just a waste of time.

We need all our time.

Every time we come in at Rogers.

He got there and broke down in the other room.

It's just unbelievable.

It's just got to stop.

It's got to stop.

And I just think now's the time to stop that.

And I didn't tell Cumberland this, that we're going to do this, because I didn't want to.

Oh, no, he won't want this.

No.

But I did tell him that it was essential that we keep this.

And he said, I couldn't agree more.

He said, that would be a disaster.

In the short term.

Yeah.

I said, you got to change the style.

Of course you got to.

I'll see the journalist.

He'll do it.

He'll play a hell of a role, but we also need it.

He'll do it.

He'll play a hell of a role, but we also need it.

Wherever a store manager guy or gashes people, wherever OMB gets into the policy, you've got a grave danger because you've got a grave danger.

That seeps into the bureaucracy.

And they sense OMB is a, because it,

That sinking seeps into the bureaucracy.

And they sense OMB is a policy-making group.

It is a policy-making group.

You've got great, great, unsettled.

You've got great, great.

They've got to be just unsettled.

They've got to be the police force for the sound.

They've got to be fiscal managers.

They've got to be the police force for sound management practices.

Consistency.

You know, one thing was going to say it was good to come.

You know, one thing was going to say it was good to spend all that time, wasn't it, to come up?

Dan Reingold.

Yes, sir.

All that time, wasn't it, to come up?

Dan Reingold.

Yes, sir.

He's really trying to help.

What do you think he wants to do, Steve?

What do you think he wants to do?

I don't think he wants it now.

Okay.

Fully, fully agrees to what we're doing on stretches and incandescent.

I've already agreed to what we're doing on stretches and incandescent.

At least.

He's old.

He made some progress to the turn in psychology this week.

Yes, he did.

Yes, and he thinks now.

Yes, he did.

Yes, and he thinks now.

You're getting out.

Very strong.

You're getting out of the country with a platform.

With a platform.

Where you would meet with labor people, grants, where you would meet with labor people, grants, farm workers on the hands, farm workers on the hands, farm people on the hands, beef people on the hands, beef people.

And to do this record, to get out and talk about what we're leading,

and do this regularly and get out and do it.

We're planning on a course and we're going to do it.

And talk about what we're going to do.

We're planning on a course and we're going to do it.

Well, we've got a week out, three nights.

We've got a week out, three nights.

We've got the yard.

That's a good plan for it.

And we should put more.

It's a good plan for it.

Operating from the west coast.

And we should put more in.

Oh, yeah, from the West Coast, so I can do something every week.

He said, get the hell out of the coast.

Get away from this warship and press on the right.

Oh, yeah, from the West Coast, so I can do something every week.

He said, get the hell out of the warship.

Get away from this warship and press on the right.

Take, take your program to the beach.

Because that's what he agreed to surrender to this.

And of course that's right.

And he didn't say anything that disagreed.

And of course that's right.

And he didn't say anything that disagreed.

But he much more, but he much more measured in, measured in this.

And precise now in this.

And precise in his assessments.

First week he was here, he stared at that assessment.

First week he was here, he scared the heck out of me because I thought it was a, a formula for, I think he thought I thought it was a, a formula for a public collapse or a public panic, for a public collapse or a public panic.

Yeah, yeah, it's the way he operates.

It's the way he operates.

He's not in favor, he's not in favor of the, the, uh, uh, grass, uh,

Rob got it, man.

I'll be ass-strapped.

He said he got it.

Rob got it, man.

I'll be ass-strapped.

He said he got it.

Wall Street is there.

It's money.

Don't get affected by the fact that the market went up for a couple of days.

These guys are all affected by it.

What the hell difference does it matter if the market went up or down?

Wall Street is there.

It's money.

Don't let Wall Street affect you now, really.

We're all strong.

He's three times.

Seven.

He can handle himself.

We can't hold his goddamn hand.

We do.

Christ.

My point is, I feel that on Wall Street, I'm not going to be knocked out of town for that.

My point is, more than by this Congress, or by the Washington Press, I feel that on Wall Street, I'm not going to be knocked out of town for that.

Any more than by this Congress, or by the Washington Press Conference.

You know, I think, uh... And you see, one of the... You know, I think, uh... One of the problems with Arthur Burner is he's always affected by Wall Street and by the Jewish community.

One of the problems with Arthur Burner is he's a... Arthur always says he's always affected by Wall Street and by the Jewish community.

Arthur always says...

we've got a commons, he said, we've got a commons, he said, at the time of Cambodia, remember I told you, it says, if you just get the time of Cambodia, remember I told you, it says, Cambodia over, it all passed, we got Cambodia over, it didn't pass, it wasn't a commons, and there's, sure, if you just get Cambodia over, it all passed, we got Cambodia, the commons factory thing is over, it didn't pass, it wasn't a commons, and there's, sure, the commons factory thing is, it's an ersatz, it's an anomaly, it's an ersatz,

believe me, if you've got a confidence factor, why the hell are people buying?

You've got a confidence factor, why the hell are people buying?

This is not a, it's not all, I'm not trying to just, this is not a, it's not all,

George Shultz's, I'm not trying to justify what I am saying, that we got to plead George Shultz's case, but I am saying that we got to take a goddamn hard look before we just go panicking.

A goddamn hard look before we just go panicking.

A few people around here think there's a lack of confidence.

Oh, you did?

He said, I hope you understand the character.

How do you understand the character that Pickburn wanted to be?

And I said, we had three non-priority things to do in the first three weeks.

Yeah, first was to get the candidate back and functioning in that conference, and then they went back and functioning in that conference, and then they're there.

Yeah.

Second was the Republican leadership, and then they're there.

Yeah.

Second was...

It's the Republican leadership, and they're there.

And third, and most importantly of all, was the case itself, which we were being beaten at that, dealing with a new crisis each day, itself, which we were being beaten at that, dealing with a new crisis each day, in the newspaper.

And that's what was causing that.

The newspaper.

And that's what was causing that.

The view of stagnation.

And quite frankly, everyone's entities were being consumed by the view of stagnation.

And quite frankly, everyone's entities were being consumed by us.

And so we did that thing for instance.

And so we did that thing for instance, when we de-fused and preempted a very serious show, when we de-fused one of those things.

And preempted it.

And he said,

He said, in the case of you, I know, he said, that if you're going to stay, it has to be next.

He said, this is never, never my advantage.

Absolutely.

And I didn't think that was that goddamn son.

Absolutely.

And I didn't think that it was any package, but...

Yes, we, uh... What developed that goddamn system?

Well, we never put that in the same package, but...

Yes, we, uh...

If we can get the others, no, that's something that he did.

Is there any compromise you can make on the Rogers thing?

Let's talk about it now, because, uh... Is there any compromise you can make on the Rogers thing?

Uh... Let's talk about it now, because, uh...

Uh...

The reason is...

I...

I really don't think there is, and I think that draining the judgment and sucking the good judgment and energy to manage that problem is just a waste of time.

We need all our judgment to come in there.

Every time I come in here at Rogers, and I can say, where are the poisons?

It's the darks.

And I can say, where are the poisons?

It's the darks.

We're going to do this because I didn't want this.

Oh, no.

He won't want this.

Oh, no.

But I did tell him that it was essential that we keep kissing.

And he said, I couldn't agree more.

He said, that's it.

He said, I couldn't agree more.

He said, that's it.

I said, yeah, I'll change this.

In the short term.

Yeah.

Like I said, he's got to change his stock.

Of course he does.

I'll see the journals.