Conversation 933-003

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Hi.

How was your trip?

All fine.

Great.

You were the greatest example of suppressed objectivity yesterday.

You know that goddamn word, huh?

I'm gonna do this wiretap.

Come on, let's get out the paper here.

And the Edwards all ran, they ran way down, and I just wrote you the news on it.

I'm telling you, I'm pushing this very hard.

I'm just getting quite a bit of that.

But they did, and John Hurley was 286 feet in that position, and they did a second, third hand, third ear save, removed.

McGruder said that...

Strong told him that the president wanted this thing.

I just don't believe it.

And they run that as a legal issue?

Yes.

Apparently, he did get on with it.

He did get on with it.

That works for me, Scott.

Yes, he did.

But the way they handled it has been really...

I mean, you couldn't even...

There isn't even a hint of objectivity.

Had that been reversed, it would have been a three-inch hemlock.

But we do that.

We've known it all along.

We thought we could have been better out of it than that.

And as a matter of fact, we overkilled because we used the press courier instead of giving it to the journalists who probably had a way to use it.

Because if they all collectively won't use it, I don't know how we could have gotten it out.

What journalists would have ever used it?

No.

But it served its purpose.

But it's a backstop.

That's right.

And now, are they checking these names?

Yes, sir.

They're getting all the names.

They're getting all the names and checking if there are any news, but I've got to get the names out.

If there are any news, have the names out.

They've got to get out now.

We've got to make procedures again.

Just keep nibbling away.

See, that was a real shock, didn't it?

I read it this morning, he said, at the White House.

He didn't explain why.

He said it obviously turned to an offensive posture.

And that's what that was all about.

Yeah, well...

Now, we discussed this morning, sir, the pros and cons of your going out and making this personnel announcement.

Probably not.

Well, you know, we think even though there's some risks, it's probably not a bad idea.

It's a good, solid announcement.

Jerry will say that you're meeting in here with Larry and myself, and we'll have a personnel announcement.

There'll be no questions and answers today.

It was too late.

We'll stay behind and take your questions.

And you have a little preamble, preamble statement, that says, you know, I know you have many questions, and I will be here in the near future, but today is not the time.

I know, I know.

I didn't tell them.

I don't know.

I don't think it's a bad idea to bleed this thing a little bit, and, uh... Other ways to bring it in here?

Or you could bring it in here.

But that would be a little less structured for a picture.

We decided we'd find going out the press room where it was necessary.

We could just bring them in here and we could, the three of us could be standing here and then say, you know, so I'd go out and we'd just do that.

In other words, a photo booth, a photo booth with a couple of damn reporters and there's no question he came to the press room and we wouldn't answer any questions.

See my point?

Yeah.

And then Mel goes out and they have a picture story running.

I think it's better out.

Did you want to make the announcement yourself?

Yeah, I'll do it.

I'll do it right here.

Right in here.

I think that's best.

That's good.

I just do it very casually.

Good.

All right, so we'll wake up sometime.

Yeah.

10 o'clock now.

10.30.

No, we're going to make it 11 because Klein's giving a 10.30 briefing over there.

Yeah.

All right.

Good.

All right.

I'll do that.

Now, I am really pleased that you had that meeting with Connery yesterday because he's been playing a very smooth game.

He told Pierre Rensselaer yesterday that he was going to fight with you if you didn't take dramatic economic action.

Now, that was a very cozy way he played that yesterday.

Well, he didn't engage you.

I kept asking.

That's right.

And then he threw in that twister at the end, which incidentally I don't think is a good course of action.

It would be a disaster.

Why?

The freeze on food stocks.

We're talking about China, Ukraine, Soviet Union.

What do you mean the freeze on food stocks?

On the exports of U.S. food stocks.

We're ready.

We really are up against two issues, Mr. President, and I'm convinced of it.

One is to put controls on.

And if we do, we've got to consider that it would be a permanent, philosophic change for these military chiefs and have to keep them on.

Or we decide to march ahead courageously with our current program and reinforce it.

This other thing, with this conglomerate, our entire trade bill,

Every relationship we had with Japan that we built so carefully would give us horrendous problems, and so it's one great...

So, I think I'll be right from my perspective.

I think the Schultz-Stein thing is terribly unimaginative and so forth.

It is.

It's...

But again, it's essentially status quo.

Now, their basic problem, and I know damn well one of you is, they think we're mucking up their theological purity to get some political impact on the market.

There isn't any question about it.

That's exactly what they're saying in private.

And just what I said, why not?

The simple fact is that we've got a problem, and we've got this on us.

Although, that really isn't the thing.

I'm trying to just make the shot for Watergate.

They don't realize it.

If there were no Watergates, we'd have this problem up even higher.

You know, that's what I told them last night.

Golly, this problem is the biggest problem.

I mean, suddenly here, everybody reports the biggest problem is prices in Watergate.

That's this town.

I mean, that's...

I guess a little disappointed, frankly, that Schultz's not here.

I don't think Schultz is on his best.

When he came back in here last night, he wasn't eating poker.

Remember, he hung in front of your desk and started talking about...

He's... Fatigued?

I think he's fatigued.

I really do.

One thing, though, I called Lazard about last night.

It's a small thing, but...

When they called, they, uh, when I was meeting with Bizarre about 6.30 last night, so they got this pin from Dej for the, uh, meetings log I had with Dean.

Well, I told Bizarre to give him the fax.

So, and then I, when I went over to the residents, I thought, again, I mean, he didn't understand.

He went, no, we don't, we said, we must, of course, he said, but I want to talk to him on the spot.

I mean, I said, absolutely, never heard you on the spot.

I mean, just talk.

But I said, get the facts out.

So, I said, he doesn't want to take the law.

He wants an issue.

Well, you pick up the morning news summary, and the issue is there, rather than the fact that

A czar was supposed to work on it or something.

Joe called that actually last night and said, we'll be glad to send them the meetings he's had with me.

But I can't.

If you're going to do something, do it.

And don't let it be an issue.

I don't know whether it was discussed this morning.

Maybe they may not see the point of that, but that's our thing.

We discussed that yesterday at length, that we had to do that.

I don't want to check it tomorrow.

Maybe they did do it, and it's just...

He phoned me to go because he wanted an issue.

Of course.

Well, you better check it out.

You better have somebody check it out.

They were more appreciative.

We can get him for you now, U.S. Hello, Mr.

Bizarre.

I hate to call.

I want to be sure he's there.

Frank, did after your discussion with the president last night, did you get that information to the bank?

You did.

Why isn't it in the papers?

He got denied.

He said he was going to subpoena anything.

I'm not sure if Clayton's name addresses it or not.

It's all over the networks.

That's our call.

Give it a call.

That's our call.

Yeah, this is what you got to do.

I'm telling you, goddammit, we insist on it immediately.

What time did you get to?

or not boy scouting or anything like that.

Say we were in here, how would we have gotten there?

You know what happened was, he called, Dash wasn't available.

His man Thompson he called next.

He gave it to Thompson.

Thompson played tricky with him.

Then he called him back at 9 o'clock.

Dash did, last night.

And Dash denied ever having the intention of subpoenaing anything.

He gave him the information.

Dash, they had already put out the stories.

It's just that simple.

That's all.

That's all the papers are out.

In other words, they built the issue.

interested in the logs.

They're not interested in this sort of thing.

They're only interested in the issue.

Now, Garment is the call bench, and he called me back.

He just erased, I'm sure, all the networks had this last night, the papers had it.

And they knew before they knew, they knew that you were going to harness the material.

Remember, I called you.

I was concerned about this.

And having Garment done that,

In other words, don't, don't, don't.

Let me explain.

This is primarily a PR thing, this sort of thing.

And if we're going to give them something, we're not going to give them much.

I think we ought to make a little credit for that.

Fine.

All right.

Sorry.

We won't make much.

Sorry, this is a callback.

We expect to be asked about it in the morning.

If he doesn't make a statement, we're going to blast him from the White House.

Is that clear?

I guess what we need, Alex, is just a good, tough PR guy right here on this thing.

What do you think?

I don't know.

That's all their job.

Their thing is a terrific PR job.

Well, you know, you pick up a news story this morning.

I just couldn't believe it when they picked up John Irving on CBS.

They said John Irving insinuated that the president moved on one thing.

John told him that the president wanted the materials.

Now, this is hearsay twice through.

Everybody knows that.

I said everybody knows it.

So nobody steps up against us.

Who gets on our side then?

This is a minifying of exercise.

Every time one of these things takes a turn, hell, we knew damn well yesterday what they were up to.

We knew that the A Cox tribe from STM went and dashed, moved late into that, and we should have been ready for it.

We should have said, God damn it.

Of course, the stories are playing all right on the issue of the papers.

That's fucked up now in a way.

Yeah.

I just hope it's not closed up.

I talked to Bazaar, and I hope it's not closed up so much that he and or when the very rest of the police will come in and say, let's give them that information.

Al, you've got to remember that I, incidentally, I cannot let Bazaar go through papers.

Do you understand?

You go through these, but I can't turn through all of them.

No, you have to go through it.

And nobody should go, those are my papers, and we can't let them do it.

And don't let them go through it either.

No, indeed.

Bob was concerned because we had to get the safe combinations to open up being safe.

And of course, the board called him and said, we've got your safe combination.

I changed it.

He's the only one who even had the combination, and I insisted that he give it to you.

There's nobody else that should hand it.

That's right.

Well, what I was going to say on the papers thing,

We just can't open up on that.

And if you start opening, believe me, call, it'll just open Pandora's box.

I don't know what's there.

I just don't know what's there.

Not in terms of criminality, but in terms of implication.

If they don't say, but Magruder told Strawn, but Strawn, but Magruder says Strawn told him.

I never saw Strawn.

That's true.

I can tell you in order.

Well, we have a very good paper down on this issue that I need to read.

You'd be encouraged to read it on the paper.

I agree with Professor Ramsey to tell them to look at education individually, because you can.

If you're on a stronger ground than just individuals,

Let's get Watergate off of our plate for the moment and invest in something else.

You know, we're right about one thing right now.

We just can't sit here and guess about this thing.

We've got to leave it over there with Bazaar, you know, right?

And they must have come rushing in with their problems to you, not alone me.

You know, I mean,

Unless there's a decision to be made.

Well, they came in from Russia to me yesterday morning with a disastrous course of action, which was a straight confrontation yesterday.

Well, that's why I said get the hell out of here.

I can't do that.

I agree with you.

When I say that, I meant it.

I meant it.

It's a fascinating thing for the lawyers.

Don't let them gas you.

No, I know.

The second point is that I won't go to the suburbs.

Second part is that we just have to realize that that media treatment yesterday was a pretty good indication that we were in central America.

Did the times you're supposed to play this are real?

They don't want to admit it.

But it served its purpose.

Yes, sir.

I'll bet you don't hear any more than one chance.

I'll bet we never hear another word of that.

Bob, you understand, I want those, who's going to look through those names, who has some selected animal, come on, he'll remember who's into this man.

Okay?

Give all those names back.

and so forth.

You've got to have somebody look them over who's got a good recollection of that.

Don't have this done by bazaars.

He wouldn't remember who those people are.

You've got to look at it from the impact.

He's right in this.

Right.

And that statement is... Well, I get it.

Now, the other thing is, as I said, if the news is going to play that way, you've just got to figure, are we just going to have this thing hanging around us?

And there isn't a great deal that can be done.

I don't know.

Some of our people talk about fighting and so forth.

I guess they aren't going to play.

I think John Conway's advice yesterday is correct in saying, which is to ignore the goddamn money.

Don't say any more about it.

We've won the battle.

There's no question in my mind about that.

Yes, I do.

I think the basic issue is already solved.

And what we've got to do... Why do you think we've won the battle?

Well, I think that they have no way of accomplishing what they're after.

Accomplishing has to destroy you.

That's their only job.

That's what the whole thing is all about.

And they haven't got to do that.

Now they're going to spit a thundering backdrop of misery for us.

But we've got to work slowly at it by doing our business and being hyperactive in doing it.

Hyperactive in the sense of getting out of Washington and showing the leadership.

We're going to have our ups and downs always in this.

Well, you have ups and downs.

I don't think we're going to be a big assistant out here.

We need somebody to go out and lead and everything.

That's right.

Somebody who's really a tough, political fighter, and that's what he is.

He knows where all the monkeys are.

And the same with Bryce.

Well, Bryce is a little less impressive.

He seems kind of... No, Bryce is more...

He likes to muse about things, but Bryce will be useful in a sense.

I have a feeling that this economic package is not... still quite ready.

I think they rushed to get it ready.

And the speech, frankly, is lousy.

I want to make a note about this while I'm talking.

Our speech writing team is terribly inadequate.

We need to do some talking points and the rest.

Price, the writer, he's no writer.

But we have a great importance that I do.

We ought to have Price try to get it to the police.

That's that.

Well, what I was going to say, apart from that...

I'm not comfortable with this thing yet.

I mean, I'll be relieved.

You know what I mean?

I'm just not comfortable going out there in that pocket, and then go out and speak in Peoria, and do the investment, bond people.

Oh, another point I want to make to you.

You never know what the schedule is going to be like.

The little boys out here who make up schedules don't realize that New York is a dynamite.

I mean, I never want to go to New York again.

You see, like, we'll go to the bond riders, so we always want to have demonstrators in New York.

So just remember New York City, Chicago, St. Louis, Atlanta, New Orleans, Columbus, Cleveland, New York.

So we'll get that out of the way.

Now, another thing, if you're trying to get individual groups, individual groups, I understand, like to bring, watch them, the best thing to do in that instance, if you're not trying to bring them,

in my house.

In other words, find a way to do it.

I'm sure it's a high-definition body of precious.

I brought 110 or so, 100 rock rovers and so forth, rock rovers.

We can do that so easily, like Fitz Evans.

Rather than mine going over to his hotel to talk about the labor thing, I'm going to bring him here to talk about it.

You know, there's no points to be made to have the individual.

Now, going to the country, we should go to the country in ways that are highly visible.

Highly visible.

Despite what we say about, let's put out an economic speech on Chicago or something like that.

Put out an economic speech here, radio support, get the play.

Go to Chicago and repeat the theme of it and let them cheer on you.

The purpose of going to the country is really solely that.

The idea, now this is a Schultz idea, I'm sure, but it's not worth a dime for a president.

I want you to know.

The idea that I will go and sit down with groups of interested citizens, and those interested citizens will give me their views on the economy.

That will not work.

That's illusive.

Everybody wanted to do that during the war, and people wanted me to do it.

You know, that's something that people do in the country.

And with the blacks, it is a lot.

And it's a total loser.

You see, I am the president.

I'm going to make the decisions, and I'll meet with people here.

Once I make them, I'm going to tell them the idea.

All right, suppose you sit down with six people.

But now, it's great for those six people, they don't say anything.

If you say, well, they're going to get a story out of the fact that you sat down with six people.

pressing her right.

I've done this over and over again, and they never have done me.

And it's just a terrible, boring waste of time.

You know, that's exactly right.

I'll have to work on that schedule myself.

I know scheduling so well.

And the Parker boys over there are not really up to it.

And he needs to say, Schultz and his boys are totally on it.

They were making the kind of forums that they are in.

And the other day, they said, I'm going to get this cabinet out there.

I was on the economy at the moment.

The Dow was on $900.

It's about to go to $1,000.

That's a, it'll be a thought, David.

But it's bubbling around for a number of reasons.

The money's been shifting from us in real estate and in the market.

That's a separate problem.

A real problem is the dollar abroad, I think, and the inflation, and that's it.

Well, that and the inflation really come down to it.

Aren't you convinced?

Aren't you convinced, Rudy?

Yeah, what about you?

What do you do at it?

Well, like, you know, what we've got is just a very fundamental philosophical issue here.

Frankly, what I'm most disturbed about is that your advisors don't give you an objective view.

There's a school of thought which is essentially liberal science that says that the economy has to be controlled from the online out.

Yes, I've got it.

And, uh...

I don't want it.

No, we don't want to do it.

It would be a fundamental shift in the philosophy of the party and our own convictions.

But you ought to be told that and not be said, well, I'm too much, you're going to have to face the same thing.

That's not what the proponents of freeze mean, the responsible one.

What they're saying is, sure, you control the economy, continue.

That's the nature of the economic peace.

But those men, they're so doctored in, they can't even discuss that with you objectively, and give you the pros and cons, which I think you would reject.

I certainly would.

But it isn't.

It isn't sheer insanity.

And you really can't get out of the basic issue of, it's either that, or fighting for the status quo.

Yes, sir.

And you need enough...

If you stay status quo, you need enough mystery and imagination and one hand to give you that leadership.

I really do, quite frankly, believe that the problem is more Watergate than it is Econ here at this time, and abroad.

That's the problem we've got to overcome through active leadership and doing other things.

And I'm showing them that, by God, we're here.

Well, that's the right kind of thing.

Business comes off of any degree of success, whatever.

It's even that.

We're fighting for status quo.

Yes, sir.

And you need enough...

If you stay status quo, you need enough mystery and imagination and...

On one hand, to give you that leadership, I really do quite frankly believe that the problem is more Watergate than it is the economy.

And abroad.

That's the problem we've got to overcome through active leadership and doing other things.

And I'm showing them that by God, we're here.

as it comes off any degree of success, whatever.

That will, they cannot, they cannot have failed.

That's right, and then there's a solid week of steady business going.

And that's why I think when we, whenever Bresnik goes on Friday, you want to be with him.

You'll like it.

He'd be upset if you didn't.

It's a good idea.

That's right.

That's what it is.

And I'll stand by it.

That's just great stuff, and the more that we get to that.

Incidentally, I want to give him a golf cart.

It would be great to run around the country.

I want to give him a golf cart.

We're closer to him than that.

Catholic, yeah.

But I want to give him a golf cart.

You can find out somebody around here.

They give them to him.

We get those at very modest amounts.

Maybe a cushion for somebody.

But he'll love those.

We're getting a hell of a ride out of this Irish town, my God, David.

What?

There are all kinds of stories about Kelly from your house here this morning.

Right.

So we're getting about two or three days' ride out of this town.

And he's good.

He's...

When do we get out of this town, David?

I don't know.

We could throw it.

I bet you're out here.

Well, you know, I'll be down there.

Is that a technological school and so forth?

Is it a junior college or a student?

I think I'm just going to give them an awful couple of things out there.

I mean, there's no sense in trying to talk to them about our economic problems.

I'm not ready for that.

I think I'm just talking about what the future looks like for young people in America and so forth and so on.

How good things are and so forth and so on.

Well, last night I just tipped off your college, which, you know, we just kind of, you know, God damn, these people still have enough love.

Great.

And we have.

We've got lots of friends.

Actually, my wife and daughter have done something really great.

They say that it's going to be dark somehow, mail, and the duty of support and all that sort of thing.

So we have a lot of support.

It's a, sure, we've got a lot of support.

but how the public can stand this constant battle.

But John, to take John Erd, I know that Erd's deposition must have been 90% positive, and that the president was, the president asked him for a report and so forth and so on.

They didn't use any of that.

Their whole desire is to get the president.

But somebody's got to say, well, Scott said this to me, didn't he?

Yes, he did.

He said it.

But they didn't like that.

I think they're on this right.

This goddamn thing will run its course to where people are just going to be totally turned on.

John.

I'm going to roll.

John said that.

Who said this?

He said it.

He said, hell, it's going to be gone.

Well, we're still going to be in Oxford.

You know, some new disclosure.

I don't know what.

Right.

They're not going to be able to do a goddamn thing but just keep pressing until apparently people get so fed up with it that they're going to turn it off entirely.

But we've got to let the people get fed up.

That's right, sir.

There's no way of getting the press to turn it on.

This issue has chosen, this is the only time this issue has led to redactions.

It should have led.

Everything that worked should have been a headline.

But they did want to correct the fact that there were double the number of tabs that gave you the description.

Well, I'm going to get those names, and I'd like them about 3 o'clock this afternoon, and I'm going to put them out now.

I'm going to start getting some of that stuff out.

I think I've got a, I think I've got a term I find.

Get me a copy of that Ellsberg account when you do that.

I'm going to read it.

There's a way that we can play a little fancy footwork here ourselves.

It'll never come to the White House, I'm sure.

I want to look at some of this stuff, but I've got to know.

If you can't study the names, he will study the names.

figure out his name.

The body, I'm only there for about 10 years.

I'm not into the Johnson era.

I'm sure if this is picked as a hell of a thing, there's people tapping it in that career.

If you found the blood, what was his name?

What was his body?

Maybe the second biggest brain.

I don't know.

That's a bad thing to put out here.

See, they know he's a British body and they can tap him.

They did do so.

Who were they?

Coming back to the other thing, the economy.

Of course, everybody in the way, made his breakfast apparently, but what we do, pure and very, that's what you preach, isn't it?

Absolutely.

And he feels very strongly about it.

For how long, Jesse, or 90?

90, I think.

Well, you can't go 90, I'll tell you.

Maybe I'd better take a look at the 60 day periods.

You know, he even threw it on 60.

And then, and then, in that period, well, the Tucker plays too.

What do you think?

I don't know.

Or, shall we just fight the battle through?

I don't know.

I'm not, I'm not.

But you've got a strong-minded guy like Kovalec shutting down the meeting.

And, you know, I mean, Schultz is burping them around, and Stein's sort of sitting there, and I know they're all going to be dead, and they don't know what in the dickens to do.

But you can see that what you need, Al, what I need is an economic advisor running over there, running the tracer, who comes in with an idea.

He says, all right, I've thought all this through, and this and that, and we just kind of got that man.

I'll get to the answer.

Let me get Simon over here.

All right.

I'll talk to Simon this morning.

I've heard great comments.

And have Simon talk to Dunlop about that.

Say, you've got a good reason to do it.

Tell Simon that we just want to know.

He's thought this thing through, and so forth.

What about it?

Now, I realize we may have problems.

They would indicate that those problems are almost insurmountable, wouldn't they?

They convince you the same thing that that's common.

Yeah, I don't know.

I think it would set us back in what we have been doing.

In what we've heard a great amount.

That's right.

Right.

But, dear God, no one can tell me that that's not magic.

And I think there's just a lot of reasons that we've got to get over this term period.

Tell Dunlop, in any event, that you can call him and tell him there are a lot of counts, that I'd like for him to do some creative thinking with regard to what comes after a 60-day freeze.

I think 60 was better than 90.

I agree, too.

Because basically, you don't have to stir around and wait until later, later than I take it for 60.

I never take it for 90.

And, uh,

But I think that's what we better do now.

And then they do the return.

You can call Simon and get him over here and say, now look, we're not getting it.

We're just not getting the stuff up here to the top that we need.

Look, if I delay this economic decision in a week, it's all right.

It's all right.

I don't want to go past the current level.

Tom, we should have some statistics ready that will reinforce our judgment.

Now, with regard to Kevin meeting this Thursday, I think he would present layers of a little bit more of a Paris thing.

And I don't think you better give him the economic man.

No, no, that was just, I don't think we're, well, I was trying to, I don't know, we're not ready for it.

Are we, Alan?

No, we're not ready.

No question about that.

We're not ready.

What else?

We just have a brief deputy.

And then, you know, I hear the seniors, which one of the, huh?

They haven't had the, uh, the parents.

I mean, the Islams haven't got it.

They haven't got it.

Well, I'll give them a little of that.

And we'll give them a little.

And then therapy.

They need, uh, for a couple of them to talk, we'll let Brandon give us a little report.

You know?

Yeah, we missed a few.

We will, but I don't want to, I don't want to ever let Brenner give one, but we'll let Brenner give it.

We'll report it, but he's my official friend.

And Cat Winder, he's the one that got to talk.

Those will be the two for the dog appointment show.

10 minutes each.

Right.

How's that sound to you?

That's good.

And that meeting will be about an hour.

The whole purpose of the cabin meeting is there at the end.

We'll have a layer there.

The economy should be there.

I'll tell them I'm doing a lot of things about the economy.

I may take 10 minutes to see what they think about it.

That's good.

You know, you can go right around the circle and say what you want to do.

Well, don't let me, I know, don't let me do it.

depression about it in the kitchen.

We just got a paper, it's a great political campaign.

The one thing he is not figuring is whether or not, actually when, I agree with him on how to fight it.

For example, the press conference

It's a good one.

Al, we're not quite ready for that yet.

No, we're not ready.

If I ever walked out there and walked out this week against a water game, I would have been a bloody mess.

No question about it.

I think we've got to wait this long.

I haven't given a very strong feeling.

But you've got to get through pressure.

That's my feeling.

Then have a question.

That's my feeling.

I thought maybe as we got close to them, they might turn.

But it hasn't.

That's the way it is.

They might turn.

They won't turn.

But then shoot their water.

They won't.

But the country is a little more fed up than it is at the present time.

It is getting fed up, and I think a lot of people...

It is.

Well, Alstom took off again today about his savings.

It's just unbelievable the way the whole thing is playing.

People are fed up with it.

We know that.

We know the mail is running that way.

We know that the mail that the networks are getting is very strong against us.

So it'll build and after this week we'll have another working this and they're not getting anywhere.

It's just the same old crack.

Can I talk briefly to Rodney's last name?

He gave a couple things to me.

He said to get a report of Pompidou's health or what happened to him, dives or so forth.

And to see if Don Kendall would go to Mexico, of course he won't.

But he'd be a great ambassador.

So Kendall was going to have to see him or something like that.

But I just wanted to tell you that

One thing about Rodgers, this might be your talk last night, Al, he isn't about to stand up unless he sees that curve coming the right way.

Yeah.

That's the point.

I must say, he just doesn't have it with him.

He was saying last night that he thought the area was beginning to turn a bit in our direction.

I don't know what he was talking about.

He listened to some of it.

So I'm talking about, you know, he always raises the question as to what the, they, even our friends tend to think of the worst.

I mean, you take this whole, this whole crap of the, Conley makes an appreciative point there, but I think most people don't like to do that.

I don't think most do, right?

It's about half of what I've seen in the polls is,

The point is, the other way to say that, the way you put it, is that even if I did, if I just go on redoing the job, isn't that it?

That's right.

That's the point.

What the American people think is politics is dirty business.

And that, God damn it, they've got a president who's succeeded and they want him to continue to succeed.

That's the fundamental thing.

And that runs the spectrum from

Ardent enthusiasm, and I think most of the middle American feels that way.

The other guy, the guys that are turning on the on-board gate were against you anyway.

They just have never been able to even have any platform.

Well, there's a few others.

Some of the more partisan Democrats who didn't turn on surgery because they didn't think it was popular started to.

They're laying back just a little now, I don't know.

Maybe now.

I want to call Jerry Ford and see if he has a discussion with McCluskey.

Oh, I got that.

Yes, did you hear that?

He said that McCluskey probably was not going to put in a resolution.

He was just going to make a speech, but they were probably going to be in the minority.

Yeah, I think that's it.

So, why don't you make a speech?

I'm sorry about that.

That's fine.

You're going to make a resolution.

It would be impossible at this time to visualize such a thing.

What do we come to then?

Well, actually, I don't want that.

Come on, did I just let him down or what?

The whole line was trying to create these lawyers, trying to create the impression that I was sitting there waiting for the person, and I didn't seem to care.

I didn't seem to care for the word of that.

Well, but that is, you know, and I thought, why should I even be explaining the bill such a thing?

No, that's right.

You shouldn't have to.

I didn't.

Goddamn, he ought to be stepping up to him.

No.

You ought to get the facts.

I'm not sure the way he acted the first week I was here.

He just turned me on when I went over and talked to him.

And it had nothing to do with the fact that he wouldn't leave that job and come over here to help.

That I should understand.

Yes.

That's probably right.

Yes.

But it was the judgments and the way he arrived at the conclusions.

It was selfish.

It was some good idea.

Selfish.

That we don't need.

Oh, boy.

I'm tickled with the sacrifice you're making.

And let's face it, on later, he loves politics, but he doesn't particularly want to come back right now.

What are you doing?

What are you doing in that hell of a place?

I'm not.

I was thinking one thing, and it's free.

What is the schedule tonight?

What about taking him to Harvard and going out there?

I don't know.

I think the point is I want to have him come off with a feeling of the interim.

I can't do it tomorrow.

I haven't studied to make that speech yet.

But, uh, but getting back to it, let's say, but whatever, Dean Jones, I mean, he said, well, I got a telephone call from the president, which we never lost, and called him.

This man, I have the slightest idea what that, all the time, done this.

It is that funny person.

All I know is it happened after that.

It was our instance.

That's when I was trying to get the facts.

I think I was, you know.

They can't do anything with that period.

And anyway.

But also, how can you believe me right now?

That's the whole point.

Well, let me see this one.

He just attacked me.

He said, here's a son of a bitch who is more concerned about not going to jail than any other single time.

They discredited it.

The press keeps playing.

The toughest part of this is the frustration and the dishonesty of the goddamn thing and not being able to really get out and clap.

I mustn't do it though.

You cannot.

I don't.

I think we've got to let them, frankly, run their course.

That's correct.

I really feel so.

Let me ask you on the economy, talk to this, talk to, get it done out, to work on this thing.

Get the, get the science over.

But in the meantime, we'll meet on, and I'll talk to you, Seth, but in the meantime, I'll just talk candidly.

How about just talking the truth?

What we need is a splash.

No.

I am just far less against it than these men because I don't think they've given it a fair, a fair shake.

I mean, in the past, this is what we had to do.

This is more political than it is economic.

And it's more confidence.

But you can't separate them.

God damn it, to have a man say that, uh,

That you're trying to solve Wargate with an economic step is problematic.

We've got an economic problem.

It's a relationship problem.

I can't tell you though how strongly I feel.

I talked to Colson.

How did he do this anyway?

I don't know.

I did his TV last night.

I heard he was very, very good.

I don't think so.

I was going to tell you this, Devin.

Watergate isn't the main concern of the country.

The concern is about prices.

The president can do something about prices.

Watergate is flying around the window.

That's the problem.

They feed each other.

Of course they feed each other.

But that doesn't mean that you don't touch the economy because you have a problem with Watergate.

That's the answer.

What I would like to do is to get the Friday figures.

And I think we just have to ride through this week without the FBI on Saturday going down to Florida on Friday.

Ride through the week.

Also, could Timmons give a suggestion as to what they're going to do?

You know, it's a possibility that they're hanging the 90-day freeze on us.

Now, these guys are quite a lot needy when they say, well, they hang the 90-day freeze on us.

We'll tell them to force them.

Now, that's totally, totally, totally irresponsible.

You know that.

If they pass a 90-day freeze and I have to force the dog out of the anchor, then that's worse than mine figuring out a 60-day one between me and your professor.

But I want to tell them I wasn't satisfied with what I've done in there.

I want to know.

I want to look at the best line as to how he could administer and have a phase two program to follow.

Maybe we'll catch how that goes.

I think we've got to get a hard look at this with a couple of new heads in it.

The other thing I think of now is to have a freeze then.

If we don't

The other way would be to tell the truth.

We'll do either one.

The difficulty of the 60-day freeze would raise all those expectations and so forth.

One last thing.

Getting back to Colin, what is the best way?

First, he shouldn't be.

Before God, I think he's right.

He started sitting here in a hotel room, and I don't see it at all, but he's so damn sensitive about that, you know.

But I can't see him when I go.

He doesn't work.

That's right.

He can't be .

But for him to announce he's leaving now would be a psychological great magnitude.

And he was a little more to it than that.

He wasn't just going to say he was going home.

He was going to .

He's obviously been doing some yakking up there in New York.

Now, what I think we should do, sir, and I felt from the beginning, was that for a host of reasons, Laird, Vice President, the whole thing is to get them away, let them go home happy, which is largely what happened yesterday.

Ask him if he'll come to our cabinet meetings.

We need him.

Yes.

Ask him if he'll...

Call the Living Council.

And enter.

That's right.

And play on.

In other words, I want to invite him to every meeting and that we will send down a briefing officer, you know, for these things.

Send him all the briefing papers.

In other words, he's a special advisor.

But he can read on his law firm.

You know what I mean?

That's exactly right.

Read on his law firm.

But that I want to do that.

And listen, the other thing is, Al, he should use a government plan.

We need to.

I don't see any problem with that.

Do you?

Do.

If he comes up to a meeting.

Heck no.

Absolutely.

Oh, sir.

If he's coming to a meeting, he should use a government plan.

I think he's gone overboard on that.

The point is, it's more convenient for him.

The president is asking to come.

Yeah, I think that's the best way to handle it.

Yeah.

Well, what we got was that he wasn't talked to.

And of course, we weren't talking to anybody.

We had too damn much to do.

I don't think the Laird thing needs to be so deceitful.

Yes.

All right, if you would do this, and would you ask Tom to be sure that one of the times the captain would be teaching this, that is the way that I figured out this plan, that I'd like him to come to all captain meetings.

to any NSC meetings that involve economic, you know, that involve foreign economics, to energy meetings, to this and that.

You see what I mean?

That all this can be done.

That I think, I thought, there's no conflict of energy involved in that.

He's coming in, and it won't be a disaster.

I mean, he won't be resent at all, but it'll be an enormous help to me.

And then that also gives me an opportunity after such meetings

I want you to talk to him today, call him today, if you would, and say, I would like for him to take a hard look at the 60-day freeze.

Tell him that you're talking to Simon and ask him that he would do a little talk to him somewhere and tell him Schultz is gone.

How about that?

Let's let him think.

Let him know that I think that I'm not to tell him that President Slevin only just not satisfied with his program.

He wasn't satisfied with it, was he?

Absolutely not.

I mean, some of the things that he suggested that were out of it.

I think the giving, for example, the turning of the money, all that was done by FDR.

What the hell is that going to prove?

I mean, that's sort of, I mean, that isn't my style.

It's not your style to do it like that.

I'm not meeting with Mel.

Why don't you say that we discuss it with him?

I know you have many questions, all right?

That would be all curious, pending investigations.

I would like to never, I never need an investigation on that.

That's typical, you know.

You see, you take two minutes of it.

There are your noobs right there.

That's the third song.

What I would like to do is to take what you say, just to put this out, you know, get a little more noise, whatever it is.

Put that out and see.

And then put this out.

See, as a statement for the press.

We can't put this in there.

Oh, shall I not?

It's just a depression.

That's good.

I'll be out in a week.

That's right.

I might want to react to him.

What do you want?

Any more lines?

No, no.

He just said that the figure will probably be moved.

Now, I don't know where he got that.

Fine.

Right, and Clyde announced his recommendations.

They said they're going to be asking for that signature anyhow.

Yeah.

And this is a good way to do it.

Well, what I'd like to do is to get this announced.

August 3rd, when we pressed on 10, I said, we have three announcements that we'll go into detail with regard to.

You see, Tom said, type off L-U-I.

Put your name first.

Your name first.

A, Larry.

They're always as rare as mine.

I think what I'll do is just to call them in and have the two of you stand here, either you on the right or him on the left.

And we have some staff announcements that will be given to you right after this meeting.

Picture of my two strong good men here.

How's that?

That's a good one.

Okay.

That's it.

I offer this job.