Nixon & Haig on Watergate and Howard Hughes

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...with the IRS people.

Being a guy that...

knows how to counsel, so he knows the strategy worked out.

And that's, I think we can't move too quickly on getting him together with us, having him just hop on the plane and see, and we can talk about how to deal with it.

Because you can't deal with a lawyer except someone that really knows the income tax business.

Almost anything's manageable in that area, if you know what you're doing.

Well, particularly if it wasn't paid.

That's what I think, if that's what it is.

You see, our friend Dr. Riley, you know, they had to let him go because the crazy fool had not reported $150,000 of income, but then wouldn't settle.

I mean, he wouldn't pay it.

So there's a council made in the city.

Remember, also doesn't, you get the money back, you pay the money, pay the penalty, anything.

He doesn't, you know, the last thing he wants is to embarrass us.

That's why he needs that council right away.

I mean, they can move quickly and quietly.

That's right.

You know, there's always a great deal in this area that's fuzzy, and the intent has to be, as long as he has it,

We never used it for any purpose.

You see, he's an honest man.

I mean, he's got more chances to steal than he would possibly have.

But any amount of money that he would ever get, he'd always share with the campaign, you know, that the people would contribute.

But this he just considered to be hot stuff.

Well, I can see that.

But he's kept it in as the exact bills that they gave him.

I don't know if that proves anything.

They can tell that to you.

They can tell it to you.

Well, I think that if we were going to spend it or cheat with it or something, we would have done that, I would think.

Then he's got every right to have a lawyer go up, look at the facts, find out what the problem is, get working right away.

to see if it was a possible settlement.

And they operate very, very discreetly over there.

They always have until it becomes too late.

The schedule they were talking about would be three to four months.

Ah, well, let's do it now.

I think we'd better do it now.

No, not completely tomorrow.

That's right.

Bazaar had an interesting feeling about

I don't know whether any of that's getting through or not, but it is getting through.

Do you think so?

It was very helpful, especially Laird, of course, because they know that guy.

No, you, they would not be that surprised.

But with Laird, he plays a cool game.

Probably a recap, probably.

They now say, since they're questioning people, whether there's a super spy involved in all this.

God almighty.

You know, I'm really, I'm really curious.

I suppose Dean could take another pop at us.

I don't know what else he's got.

I don't know what else you could call him out.

I think last week that Dean

These lawyers spread about as much out as they can.

That's right.

They know right now.

He didn't put the pigment thing in there, did he?

Yeah.

I don't think so.

Yeah.

But I don't think that was in there.

Oh, he ran that this week.

So did he.

That's when we started asking.

He might have charged the president to offer, said go raise the money now.

Why didn't you?

No, I don't think he's going to.

Of course, they're using that convoluted way.

They can't do anything by yourself.

Report it, but he said something.

His lawyers have been playing that.

And they don't have to use any restraint.

Well, I think, I guess it would be...

To be prepared for that, I suppose, bizarre it is.

already they've already thrown the dollar i think that's good i'm glad to get it out there so there's no kickback thing around i think there'll be some more this weekend

You said we're stronger now.

We regain a little of our strength, I hope, every week.

And as we get a little stronger, we can take the banner.

Is that the feeling that you've got?

I've got that feeling.

You see, some of them, he just, he thinks we're on the main team.

He said, and the press corps began to sense, you know, they couldn't.

anything but objective.

We've all been advocates.

I'll say it.

Well, you get that term.

I mean, just bastards like Kraft and people, they never, they go up and down, too.

I don't care if they're a mediocrity or intolerant.

It's good to be separated from the others, too, by way of you.

That's right, sir, sir.

You and Larry should have gone together, which you did.

Now the FBI goes.

Now they're going to come up with the... You think we're going to get Peterson's depression, huh?

Peterson's not worth touching.

I wouldn't touch him with a tip.

Good luck.

Yeah, I can bet him.

Yeah.

He got, uh...

But first he called me, tried to flag me, and he said, Well, you know, I've got quite a reputation to bring in there.

and it's subject to being soiled a lot.

And so I said, well, Pete, I'll tell you.

I'll call you in the morning.

And I told Henry, I said, this son of a bitch is, he's so good.

Subject to being soiled.

Henry said, I agree.

So I called him.

I said, Pete, we're going to work out another officer.

He said, thank you very much.

I told him he'd die.

He overplayed it.

But he's, anybody that talks that way,

He's a great, fine man.

I never thought of that.

And Henry's enthusiastic about that.

I told him to hold up until he gets back.

He ought to be an ambassador at large.

They've got that rank open in the department.

Bill doesn't want to make him that rank.

God damn, he's earned it 50 times over.

He's going to get it back.

He just won first class in the original.

Greenberg.

We sure should do that for him.

And he gets along with Henry.

Yes.

And would be totally responsive.

So I think he really outcasts me.

Spicey.

I know.

Look out there.

Another guy who could do it would be McCoy.

McCoy could do it.

But he's a...

It's a little tougher to deal with.

McCoy is basically my retirement.

I much prefer Bunker.

McCoy's arrogant.

He has an arrogance.

He's all right.

He's a fine man, but I think Bunker's a better man.

Does Connelly know, Al, that we are leaning to the...

that we ought to tilt to the 60-day thing, or are you sort of leaving him to make up his own mind?

I don't know.

He knows we're leading in that direction.

And I think he's covering his tail.

I think if you got him in here privately, he'd say, I'm with you 100%.

But he doesn't want to be tagged in the community, up on Wall Street or any place else, as being an advocate for anything.

But if they give me the same drink in a proper way, I'm going to take this issue down.

But they've got to have somebody in that shop that'll rank it that way.

I'll talk to him before he goes out.

Because George Shultz will never do it.

He just won't do it.

And that's...

That's good.

We can put it in terms, look, we have this agreement and so forth, but we're going to use the 60 days not for the purpose of freezing forever, but for the purpose of getting back on our feet, stopping this hemorrhage or whatever it is, this rising crisis, and getting up and saying, whoa here, now let's get another plan.

I just think that's what we have to do.

That's the way I deal with it.

Yeah, I do too.

But I don't know enough about it.

There must be some arguments for it, too.

Well, George told me this afternoon that he's getting all kinds of calls telling him not to do it, from labor and from business.

Is that right?

And he may be right.

But we've been at it three weeks now, and they keep talking about turning a corner.

I don't know.

I don't think so.

It's their job.

You can't do anything.

They'd love, George Shultz would love to have you say, do it this way.

God damn it, they've got to be milked.

Do it this way?

No.

To put a freeze on it.

And they'd say, well, it was against my recommendation, but it was done.

So?

But usually, we let them fret about it a little bit.

Well, I think they were fret about it over the whole weekend.

We ought to make them package it properly.

a pair of appropriate speech for each option, and flesh out, in some detail, the freeze option, which he's never done.

He's just swept to the side, and every paper is written.

Well, then I'll come back Sunday night.

You're going to be on with me.

Yes, sir.

Take your time.

We're going to be by all means.

uh... uh... uh...

Now, they're all very grateful because they've been working day and night, and now they're being able to take care of it.

The beauty of it is that it has this heated pool in the sun, and they can all sit around and work there.

I don't care if they need to ask them to.

Whatever it is, we can do that.

Well, we'll see you on the plane.

All right.

We'll hear you.

Get on out of the space.

Yes, sir.

about the Henry stuff.

Well, I don't want to make him that great.

God damn, he's earned it 50 times over.

He's going to get it back.

He just won first class in the Virginia.

Great American.

He sure should do that for him.

And he gets along with Henry.

Yes.

And would be totally responsive.

So I think he really is the best man.

He's spicy.

Oh, I know.

Look out there.

Another guy who could do it would be McCoy.

McCoy could do it.

But he's a little tougher to deal with.

McCoy is basically my retirement.

I much prefer Bunker.

McCoy's arrogant.

He has an arrogance.

He's all right.

He's a fine man.

But I think Bunker's a better man.

Does Connolly know, Al, that we are leaning to the, that we ought to tilt to the 60-day thing, or is Sir leaving him to make up his own mind?

I don't know.

He knows we're leaning in that direction.

And I think he's covering his tail.

I think if he'd gotten in here privately, he'd say, I'm with you 100%.

But he doesn't want to be

tagged in the community of the Wall Street or any county sales as being an advocate for anything.

Well, if they give me the same credit in a proper way, I'm going to take the situation.

But they've got to have somebody in that shop that'll rank it that way.

And I'll talk to him before he gives up.

Because George Schultz will never give up.

He just won't do it.

I mean, that's it.

That's good.

We can put it in terms, look, we have disagreements and so forth, but we're going to use the 60 days, not for the purpose of freezing forever, but for the purpose of getting back on our feet, just stopping this hemorrhage or whatever it is, this rise in prices.

getting up and saying, whoa here, now let's get another plan.

I just think that's what we have to do.

That's the way I deal with it.

Yeah, I do too.

But I don't know enough about it that there may be some powerful arguments against it.

I've seen a lot of it.

There must be some arguments against it.

Well, George told me this afternoon that he's getting all kinds of calls telling him not to do it.

from labor and from business.

Is that right?

Yeah, you may be right.

But we've been at it three weeks now, and they keep talking about turning a corner.

And it hasn't turned a corner.

Yeah, 2% rise in wholesale prices.

It's good to come.

24% a year.

Yeah, it's shifted in the industry.

Yeah?

Oh, I know that already.

I don't think so.

You've got to keep your...

It's their job.

You can't do anything.

They'd love, George Shultz would love to have you say, do it this way.

God damn it, they've got to be milked.

Do it this way?

No.

To put a freeze on it.

And then you'd say, well, it was against my recommendation, but it was done.

So, what do you think?

We let them...

Fred about it a little bit.

I think they were Fred about it all weekend.

We ought to make them package it properly, prepare appropriate speech for each option, and flesh out in some detail the freeze option, which he's never done.

He's just swept it aside and every paper is written.

Well, then I'll come back Sunday night.

You're going out with me.

Yes, sir.

Take your wife.

All means.

You know, it's a nice cottage out there.

Give you a little chance.

Sit outside.

That's the way Bob used to go to the campfires.

You've got to take some of the... Would you also see in Camp David that they are in the barn?

That they can use the aspen?

I don't know what I mean.

They should not eat there, because basically they're going to shut up the two kitchens.

But they should.

But they can.

I want them to use the pool and the sauna.

See?

All right.

Now, they're all very grateful, because they've been working day and night.

And now they're being able to take the water.

The beauty of the aspen is that it has this heated pool and the sauna.

They can all sit around and work there.

I don't care if they're eating aspen.

You've got to hold on to it.

Nixon & Haig on Watergate and Howard Hughes

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on June 7, 1973

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