Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 938 › Conversation 938-010

Nixon, Ziegler & Brunthaver on Watergate and Ervin Committee

Tuesday, June 12, 1973 · 4:52 PM–5:38 PM ET · Oval Office · 11 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Ziegler, Ronald L.; Brunthaver, Carroll B.Conversation938-010 on Tape 938StartTuesday, June 12, 1973 at 4:52 PMEndTuesday, June 12, 1973 at 5:38 PMRecording deviceOval OfficeSourceNixon Library record for 938-010 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Ronald Ziegler reviewed media strategies and potential responses to the ongoing Ervin Committee hearings regarding the Watergate scandal. The discussion focused on managing public perception through favorable opinion columns and editorials, while also coordinating the timing of an upcoming presidential address on economic policy and an energy-related press briefing by Henry Kissinger. The participants concluded that while the White House could facilitate public support, it was more effective to rely on spontaneous public resentment toward the committee's proceedings.

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Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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Well, why don't we just run through another rattle?
Hello?
Oh, besides, I'd like to reach you with your order on the airplane, but, uh, give me just a quick run through the hall.
Beautiful.
Okay.
Good.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Oh.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The procedure is to return the thing to the fellow out there, huh?
And he's willing to do it.
He's going to talk about something.
Right.
Right.
Right.
And then, I see.
What does the, what will he do?
Will he go down to Washington?
Yeah, and then have it transferred.
He says that's the important thing.
Uh-huh.
Well, be sure your friend out there will be acceptable to transfer.
He will.
Whatever happens, right?
Well, I just want you to worry about it.
All right, good.
I think so.
Good.
Uh, well, uh, what's that?
Well, uh, not really.
Stan's, I think, did a excellent job.
Looked good, came across strong.
Made a good presentation.
Good.
I met with Bush today.
this afternoon and kind of cracked up some.
And this is on its way, together with the London Times article, to the Hill opinion leaders' staff.
This, too, then, combined with the London Times thing makes a pretty good point.
You know, two very respected British publications.
Everybody worships the British, and hardly or not, particularly when they're expressing all
They're horrified by those things.
It's like the man from Mars comes here and they think, what the devil is going on?
But beyond that, the briefing today, very brief, did not focus on Watergate, on the economy, on different issues, energy, those types of things that people are starting to concentrate on.
I've been in constant contact
Thank you for saying that.
I guess the Northeat Meats agreed to the election.
I don't know.
But, gosh, we should have a vote.
We should get it out.
We may or may not.
We may not get the idea.
We've been ready for Thursday.
I'm hoping the amazing amount will come off.
This is the fact that we haven't got our man yet.
Well, that's all right.
If we still have this week, we'll have...
This, look, the economic thing is going to write, so basically... We'll have the economic thing, and then you'll see Friday, and Friday, and then... That's right.
Well, and Harlow's now.
Harlow's Saturday.
We should do a Kissinger before the summit-type briefing.
Well, if he can do that Thursday... Thursday doesn't be good.
That's what I'd do.
I'd throw him in there rather than the subsequent...
for the energy.
They might tell them that rather than trying to crush the energy, they need to do it with the green light.
Yesterday, Nancy was asked a question in the press conference about the Jackson statement and supported you in the summit and the
Professor Precious did not, and should not, and we did not allow him to infringe on foreign policy.
He made the point that this invitation had been extended months ago.
This is an ongoing process, and we should continue on the schedule and so forth.
I think you should be aware of that.
No, we got you.
We just got you.
All right.
Yes, sir.
Who's up there, Marlon?
Who's up to batting?
Marlon Bruder.
Well, I don't think there's any chance yet.
I quite frankly did not check.
I try not to appear like we're going.
But I do get readings on it.
Hazard.
No.
No, Hazard followed very closely.
But my impression is it stands, continues tomorrow, and then they go to Bruder.
Well, Bruder would be quite a big witness.
I don't think you'll find him any good president.
No, I'm sure of that.
It has to do with it.
And that's about it.
That'll be a big deal.
Yeah.
And Dean comes on with the immunity.
And he's careful about his surgery.
Dean is very likely to be on, as you know, as I gather now, during the time Gresham was here.
Well, so be it.
So be it.
Let the committee, let a few people.
In that case, I'd agree to do a bunch of, do a little, you know, a little survey on the outraged letters and op-eds and so forth.
The whole bunch would be activated.
In a way, it would be natural anyway that our people would just get it on their map.
The point of it is, I agree with you, but I think a lot of this will happen anyway.
And if it doesn't, and it'll happen in great volume, if it doesn't start happening, then I think we should generate it.
My people happen automatically.
Things didn't actually, and then things leaked, and it seems like we're stirring it up.
I agree.
See, we're getting a lot of good columns.
Now, Crosby always had a good column today.
Did he?
What he said, his basic point was on the, you know, knock off all this pious...
less about the intelligence operation and so forth.
What was Dean's motive?
What did he think he was attempting to do by carrying that paper out of the White House?
That type of thing is starting to go.
And, you know, as we call it, conversations.
The flow around town and so forth.
We all work with it.
But I agree.
I don't mean just what I just said to you, that we should not have op-ed pieces and get people standing up and hitting their will.
I happen to believe that if the urban committee hearings go as they continue, and they apparently are during that weekend, automatically it's going to stir even more resentment.
See, I don't know, I might be wrong in my theory, Mr. President, but I question, and I told you this before, really how much some of these
telegram and mail operations generated.
No, not helped.
They helped.
But were generated by us.
It seems to me that I happen to believe that the response to your policy and your response to your foreign policy and to your speeches was more automatic than many people perhaps would agree.
Okay, good.
So, uh...

NARA Description

On June 12, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon, Ronald L. Ziegler, and Carroll G. Brunthaver met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 4:52 pm and 5:38 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 938-010 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 938-10

Date: June 12, 1973
Time: Unknown between 4:52 pm and 5:38 pm
Location: Oval Office

The President met with Ronald L. Ziegler.

     President’s meetings

The President talked with Charles G. “Bebe” Rebozo.

[Conversation No. 938-10A]

[Begin telephone conversation]

[See Conversation No. 40-37]

[End telephone conversation]

     Watergate
          -Ervin Committee hearings
                -Maurice H. Stans
          -Ziegler’s meeting with George H. W. Bush, June 12, 1973
          -London Times and Sunday Express editorials
                -Distribution
          -Gerald L. Warren’s press briefing, June 12, 1973
                -Watergate

     Vietnam negotiations
                                       -28-

             NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                                        Conversation No. 938-10 (cont’d)

     -Henry A. Kissinger
          -Contact with President
     -Union of Soviet Socialist Republics [USSR]

Media relations
     -Energy
            -Forthcoming announcement
                  -Timing
                       -Appointment
     -President’s address to the nation announcing price control measures, June 13, 1973
     -Forthcoming Leonid I. Brezhnev visit
     -Bryce N. Harlow’s appointment
     -Kissinger’s forthcoming press briefing
            -Timing
            -Energy
            -Alexander M. Haig, Jr.

Watergate
     -Henry (“Scoop”) Jackson’s statement concerning forthcoming Brezhnev visit
           -Michael J. (“Mike”) Mansfield’s statement at June 1, 1973 press conference
     -Ervin Committee hearings
           -Jeb Stuart Magruder
           -Stans
           -J. Fred Buzhardt, Jr.
           -Stans
           -Magruder’s possible testimony
                  -John N. Mitchell, Dean
                  -Gordon C. Strachan
                  -Haldeman
                  -President
           -Dean
                  -Immunity
                  -Timing
                  -Brezhnev visit
                  -William J. Baroody’s and Patrick J. Buchanan’s efforts
                        -Publicity
     -Crosby Noyes’s column, June 12, 1973
                                             -29-

                    NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                                               Conversation No. 938-10 (cont’d)

                  -Dean
            -White House response
            -Ervin Committee hearings
                  -Timing
                  -White House generation of public response

      President’s schedule
            -Forthcoming speech on economy

The President and Ziegler left at 5:38 pm.

Also recorded on June 12, 1973

  • 938-004 4:49 PM · 11 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and unknown person(s) met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 4:49 pm and 4:52 pm.
  • 938-005 4:49 PM · 10 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and unknown person(s) met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 4:49 pm and 4:52 pm.
  • 040-036 4:52 PM · 11 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 4:52 pm and 5:27 pm.
  • 938-006 4:52 PM · 32 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Alexander M. Haig, Jr., and unknown person(s) met in the Oval Office of the White House from 4:52 pm to 5:27 pm.
  • 938-007 4:52 PM · 10 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 4:52 pm and 5:27 pm.
  • 938-008 4:52 PM · 12 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 4:52 pm and 5:27 pm.
  • 938-009 4:52 PM · 11 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and unknown person(s) met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 4:52 pm and 5:27 pm.
  • 040-037 5:27 PM · 3 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Charles G. ("Bebe") Rebozo talked on the telephone from 5:27 pm to 5:30 pm.

All 70 conversations from June 12, 1973 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 938-010, June 12, 1973. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/938-010 (accessed October 9, 2026).