Nixon, Love & Haig on Energy policy and White House organization

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Hi, John.

How are you, President?

How are you?

I'm fine.

See, it's nice to see you again.

Just like you kissed your great-grandson, he was constantly about you.

So I decided I would start off by saying I have a deep, deep...

Remarks.

I might make dinner.

I might not.

Don't worry about that.

That's the way this fellow is.

It takes a lot of time.

You're looking fine.

A lot better.

You deserve the look, I think.

Oh, well.

It stops you going through.

You know, you've got to survive all that.

Well, let me ask you this.

Have you had a chance to consider this thing that we've been talking about?

Yes, and I haven't quite come to a conclusion yet, but I'm certainly interested.

I wanted to ask you a couple of things.

Sure, sure.

That's what I wanted to hear.

What I'd like to hear from you is briefly what you think of this problem.

That is, I think it's a big thing to replace, and I just wondered if you'd sign in some of

Well, let's begin with what the opinionators, generally speaking, tell me.

It's a sophisticated opinion.

I do believe that energy is the main problem.

they only think it has negative effects then, like in regards to the groundwater or the gasoline, you sure can't get out.

Or something that may be a bad thing.

So you can keep the problem and then dismiss the problem.

Looking at it in terms of what the problem really is, it is a very serious one.

It's not a crisis, it's a problem.

Which leads us then to the question, why not assign it to a cabinet?

that you have to consider.

We have considered that, but we would have to say, frankly, there is more battle fighting and unbelievable rivalry in this than you can imagine.

The Interior wants it, the Treasury wants it.

Some people in the White House would want it.

Watch this.

President, could I bother you for just one second?

Sure.

Could we stick in just one sentence, which says we

Something we have recognized that it must involve respect for all countries.

Just to keep the others happy.

All right.

Not too long.

Just one minute.

Sure.

Not too long, make it short.

Yeah, I think this is very good.

Now, that reason has to be brought in here.

What this is basically, what you have to decide, if you're looking at it, is something that

It's more, I was going to say, a cabinet ranking isn't that ranking, so I thought it was important.

In terms of what you do, it's basically the level of Kissinger and Laird.

In other words, this is a White House thing.

The White House has to

That is my question.

And you would have to be, and your responsibility would be directly to me with direct access.

Because I cannot have other people making inroads at me.

I can't have Rogers Morgan and George Shultz and Simon and, well, there are other partners too.

The Economic Energy Commission wants to do it and Dixie Wee and all those gals.

And a lot of other people.

So what you have, John, is a

I would think for a man who wanted to take something, it's an unusual opportunity.

Now it's, it's primarily from your standpoint that I'm going to administrate from.

Who would have to administer this?

You'd have to get experts all around you.

Then you also have to get the outside advisors who like to come.

Who would come, I should say.

We'll be sure to sit that meeting tomorrow.

That would be a good thing.

There could be half of those on the Russian side.

People who are, well, you've got to invite them to the oil field, you've got to invite them to the coal field, you've got to invite them to the, needless to say, the atomic energy field, and so forth and so on.

The program is pretty well worked out, and we've got a very good program, but it needs its administration.

It's not an easy job.

Because you could, for example, if you were to take this, we'd get a complaint from the congressman about some guy that didn't get oil or gas trucking or his lettuce crop or something.

You would have to call up the head of ESSO or something and say, get off and get it.

I would do that for you.

But it's basically the whole range of energy, just not only in terms of immediate energy, but in terms of the long-range planning.

You would get, inevitably, in a foreign policy area.

For example, look, there's the problem in the Middle East with the Soviet gas deal.

Naturally, it lacks the pipeline, which is not a foreign policy problem.

It's all these things you're

So we're going to have to come up with some reasonable solution on this energy versus the environment.

Oh, yes.

All that.

This is going to be very hard.

We're going to have to come down pretty hard on the energy side.

Yes.

Because basically, we're going to have the energy in the environment, and we just have to fight that thing.

But you would be a great one to do that, because everybody knows you're

or from a state where you need your software all for the environment.

What's the use of saying, look here, we've got to sell them.

You can't have the lights go out in the dark.

You can't have the air condition go out.

You can't have the elevators not running.

That's what's involved in this, you know.

It's a big, big deal.

Well, I thought, perhaps maybe I'll understate it, but if we ever came to the point that we absolutely had to allocate energy, we would stand a very real danger of losing our

Can you imagine all the powerful government that would take to decide whether we're going to manufacture this or that, or you need to go see energy?

I can't even think of that.

I mean, if you ever get to that point, really, if you ever get to that point, you do.

Energy does control the world.

It controls each nation.

And that's just something we don't have to know.

We can't go to... No, it's not inside of the leader.

There's a lot of...

There's a lot of energy around in this country, we've just mobilized.

Yeah, and the important thing is that we are addressing and affirming that that R&D program is all important along the way.

The R&D has got to have more emphasis, you see, on the first measures we had apparently.

I think ultimately we may use hydrogen or something else, but...

Thank you.

At least I talked to tell her about it and he said it's a long way down the line and it's got problems but it's conceivable.

There's a lot of it.

And when it burns, all it does is it's combined with oxygen to make water so we've got that taken care of.

We could use that too.

We could just add the hydrogen and get the water out of it.

And you see there's another thing.

and the business side, the colonies, the oil guys.

As I said, it's an awful lot of tar there.

You bring in the great power companies, Con Ed and Southern California Ed and all those.

You've got out there Midwest, mountains, and the rest.

They've all got to play a part in this thing.

This damn decision of the Supreme Court,

that says that she cannot substantially affect the atmosphere or the environment.

It's got to be cleared up, I think.

It just means that she couldn't put a fossil fuel plant out in Wyoming or Montana.

Unbelievable.

Well, we have 20 minutes.

Yeah, 20 minutes.

That's one of the reasons that your name occurred to us, because you're kind of Mr. Clean.

You're not thought to be a big oil man or a big coal man.

In fact, you're thought to be for the high, wide, and handsome mountains and the rest, and that's good.

But on the other hand, you have to use that to bridge into the real problem.

And you probably end up not being popular with the environment.

Though I'm sure, I'm sure that the job, you could, I think, when I say not being popular, I think you could explain it for all the reasons.

But there's some that are totally unreasoned.

They totally don't make it.

I went to say, don't get into that.

Some of you were in Stockholm.

Oh, yeah.

And it was interesting to me.

There isn't any agreement between the developed and the developing nations, certainly, about what you mean by environment.

The underdeveloped nations looked at us a little suspiciously.

What you mean is that you want us not to develop any, like you can.

Some of the amenities, food, show them to the people before they think about the environment, and so on.

And I'm just right and reasonable.

Excuse me, General Manager.

I wanted to ask a question.

Mr. President,

I apologize for this, but I'm sure that if I take this job, the press will ask me, and I simply have to say, what about Watergate to you?

Well, the only thing you can say on that is that I made a statement on May 22nd, which is conclusive.

It's just not involved in your business.

It's just embarrassing.

It's just too bad.

John's mentioned that.

Yes.

Let me say it.

I would be very, very careful if they asked not to condemn any of that.

We can't be sure about any of them.

Charities have been made, and we just hope to God that they will approve a few, not to gossip, but not to gossip.

Amen.

Yes, yes.

Well, in the case of some of the... You know, it's...

I say I apologize even in asking what's up.

But I know that they... Well, I actually...

They're like a link, you know?

Yes, they are.

Well, I understand that, though, at least.

You know, when they get a good issue done, they like to whack us with it.

But if they don't have it soon, it takes some time.

They'll get through the hearings, I think, in the month of July.

And they've got to let the courts take care of it.

That's it.

They'll be all over it.

And so it'll get the respectings of whatever he was rather than this.

I made a statement on May 22nd, and that's it.

And it's true.

No, it just has to run its course, I guess.

Sure.

At the time, I thought there might be some way we could break it to the head.

We tried, you know.

We've given them all the witnesses.

We've given them three wills.

We've given them everybody's testimony, and so forth and so on.

But there's another step.

But they want to play it out politically.

That's what they want to do.

Oh, sure.

And I guess we...

I heard something that had come up, I guess, not devil knowledge, I'm not sure about something.

Perhaps Emily, but hard to tell how that ends.

I don't even remember meeting him.

Was he an evidence at total around here?

I don't know.

That's the problem.

It was just a very frightening guy.

And I was the counsel.

But she said, obviously, that she's going to have to confess on Twitter.

And so he was the guy that asked her, he went to the CIA and involved an unbelievable man, and asked him, he put these buggers in a bear cave room, and he was involved in the cover-up all the way.

And now, apparently, he was involved in a suit with some other man.

And he's not what you said he was.

He was a person.

It's a real slasher on us and everybody, but it's just, we will survive it.

Well, back to the energy talk and the international involvement or concerns and so forth.

It's just unbelievable what could occur to us right now with that Perky Gulf they went to.

That's right.

My wife told her I was considering this.

She said, don't go down there.

Among other things, we have a trip to Israel scheduled in August.

Don't go.

Oh, yeah.

Sure, sure, sure.

No problem.

Actually, there's no problem.

Oh, no.

It takes a while.

No, it takes a while.

I've never been to Israel, and I'm fairly interested to see it.

Yeah, I think that'd be like Saudi Arabia.

The Israelis are so damn bright, they don't need any oil.

But if they had oil, they'd be running a hole.

And they collect a hole there for 2 million Israelis, or like 100 million Arabs.

And run another 20 years, unless the Russians own it.

That's their concern.

And yet, unless they settle down a little bit on their arrogance and so forth, they're going to be indulged.

Because basically, the Russians cannot sit by forever.

And basically, it's basically the Arabs who were creating the American fight.

Mm-hmm.

Everybody in the American fight.

A little bit little.

And ultimately, two men who can't survive the city of Miami.

And that's why I always tell Mrs. Meyer, when she comes over here, I say, make your deal now.

Mm-hmm.

Make your deal with her head.

Don't wait.

She said, well, you know, you ever try to have data, or you speak of Arabs, toughness, oof.

They're hard to deal with.

Well, I don't know.

I know, I know.

For the first time in how many years now, 2000 or whatever, they're not the underdog of the press and it's like taking the lid off of somebody and they're just unbelievably proud and of course they've done a great job.

They've done a great job.

They've got to watch out.

They kick people around too much.

Oh, yes.

Because they... And also, they've got to realize, too, that if the chips were down, the American people at this present time would not support it.

No, I would think that this would be the greatest danger for him to face.

That is, if we come to the point that in order to support Israel, we lose the Middle East oil line, it would be a much different thing.

Well, the other point is, if we come to the point where there's a confrontation there, I expect the United States to...

That worries me a little bit, not that they don't want to go to war.

That's perfectly normal.

Nobody ever has, and I don't even think of.

But it would be almost impossible, it seems to me, to organize this country to move into wherever you pick, whatever.

It'd have to be some problem.

It'd be hard in Western Europe.

That's what our soldiers are.

What I've heard is that the predictability of the Soviet and the United States, they know very well.

I mean, if it ever gets to the nuclear showdown, $70 million in Russia, $70 million in America, who wins that?

And I don't know, maybe I've been misled, but it's been a little brief trip I had over there, things I've read and so on.

I think they truthfully are more interested at the moment than any of that in solving those economic problems.

The Russians, I agree.

That's the main thing that they very certainly are.

At this time, however they have their hawks, they're going first.

And they're, they're, they're trying, they're, they're doing the pure tremendous stuff.

They're our son.

And once they get there, they, SS9, murder, they can be extremely dangerous.

But they're already dangerous.

And they're always, probably, you never know who's going to be in control.

But yeah, as long as the President got us in,

That's right.

I was listening to that face.

He said, I'm here to stay.

He said, I've got a knife or something.

He said, some bird or something.

It exists, too.

Oh, yes.

He smokes too much.

And, uh, I can see him staying, son.

God, he goes home.

You never know what that luck could mean.

You know, some tiger could come in.

Oh.

Unreasonable, then.

Either vice here or there.

Because there's a kind of vision inside.

It's not easy to avoid it.

He's had several times.

He's avoided it in the last five years, four and a half years.

And then I just go to the police.

My mom and Joe are going to live forever.

They're both very proud of myself.

She's a three to a minus seven, four, five.

You never know.

They pop off any time of the day.

They're going to come there.

They're going to try to do us for a long time.

They don't want to change a year.

They don't want to be in front of everybody.

They don't want to be in the way of the people.

They're very moral, and they're smart.

They're organized, too.

If you want the Chinese, they're smart people.

You could put a beat of Chinese with a gun in your arms.

I wouldn't want to be their anchors.

I think that's what the Russians are very good at.

There may be a quarter of a million of them.

I see the Chinese there.

So they always, that's why the China-Russia game works.

Every time we bother the Chinese, the Russians bother us, and vice versa.

Well, in any event, I will appreciate it if you do this in the country where you're best qualified man, without question.

You'd have to move Washington.

You have to have a law captain in your office here.

Uh, probably he'll be my manager.

Yes, sir.

I told the governor to come on Tuesday.

He didn't understand what that means.

Monday?

He moved in here.

What active announcement he could have in the time he needs to be graceful.

Friends, I would need, uh, if I make the decision to come here by email the announcement goes Tuesday, I'd need a little transition time to close up a few things.

Oh, goodness, yes, yes, yes, yes.

But we'd like to settle all that, but we've got to get a stand.

But we have some.

We've got some behavior that's everything, but you don't have to cheat anybody.

That's another thing.

You've got a free hand.

They aren't up to it.

Fire them.

Get your own people.

Let them remember their heart and mind.

You know, you know.

Mr. President, another fellow you might want to talk to.

Stay here.

Yeah, thank you very much.

And we appreciate your company.

Thank you.

I think, frankly, you and your brother were much better than me at the end.

Oh, yes.

Bigger job.

I really, I really do.

Well, I mean, I could see, I don't see at all running energy.

Maybe that's what the president would have to see him.

You'll see, every Friday, you'll see the captain.

You see what I mean?

I see.

The department turns itself, and you'll be running the department.

Thank you very much, Donald.

You're welcome.

It doesn't pay much.

That's the money.

I don't understand.

I lose a little money, but the country will give you that.

I've got to get this one piece of paper out of there by night.

If you want to wait in my house, I'll send it to you.

Or I can just go out and see you tonight.

I'll see you in New York.

Nixon, Love & Haig on Energy policy and White House organization

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on June 18, 1973

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