Conversation 945-003

Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Hi, how's it going?

Good morning, sir.

Good morning.

Good morning, sir.

We still force through pretty good day yesterday.

Don't you think?

I don't see colleagues avoiding it.

The first visit is great.

I don't see colleagues avoiding it.

I'm really avoiding it.

You're a good newspaper today.

Are they not going to Washington Post?

The radio is solid right here.

Everything, even the flavor.

And the TV is fine.

And I just, I'm not, I'm pleased with the coverage.

I mean, I've had the same reaction you do.

I've watched it last night.

I don't know what in the hell is it.

But we were there, very potently so, as we should have been.

Sir, it's in the front page of the Times.

He said to keep $14,000 on it.

Cy Hirsch story, it's right up in the Watergate story.

Was it in the Times?

In the New York Times, Cy Hirsch had it.

And it's a report that he stole $14,000 in 1972 and borrowed $4,000 to finance his wedding and honeymoon sources.

in case that source said that Mr. Dean subsequently returned the $4,000 by placing it in a trust.

We've just got to figure it out and follow up on that.

We'll follow up on that.

They've got to press that.

But we ought to be sure they do.

What is the speculation regarding?

I see that Baker said don't draw an inference one way or another about this.

What is the ?

Not at all.

As a matter of fact, the Baker statement in context last night did what we were talking about doing in the statement that we put out.

He may have used those words, which may sound like we're in a new summit, but Baker's basic presentation on television was one of, we're doing this because of the summit, no one should infer from this.

If Dean has any testimony that is damaging on the president, he should not draw a conclusion in any way.

That was the basic thrust that came out of what Baker said.

Right, and on top of that, there was the basic thrust that people outside the committee, congressional leaders, overruled, especially Riker.

And as you forget, there are a lot of people that last night and so forth that you ran into said, well, thank God that committees, you know, turned off their hearings.

Not that they were consented, I mean,

You know, the interest of the president.

Bill Rogers, last night, formally, went up to Mansfield and he said, I can't tell you how grateful you are for turning in the law.

Jesus Christ.

I had just seen Mansfield and I said, well, you know, I said, I see you turned off the hearings.

He said, yes, it had to be done.

And I said, well, I had a question then.

I said, quickly, we've got to get the truth on this thing.

And he said,

and that's the way it played i think i don't think we really came out of that one that's right

To answer your question, are they playing a factor?

It's time to hear your thoughts, because the dean had devastating information the other night.

What did Dean leave to do?

I didn't think he was going to let you know about it.

What I think the story is, the dean said to keep $14,000 in funds.

That's Archibald Cox giving himself up.

Well, I wondered about that, for Christ's sakes.

And Henry's got his number.

Yes, I talked to him.

I talked to him.

Well, I mean, Richard is in good shape now.

He's...

Well...

We're trying to get them stirred up.

But I've said, as I've said several times now, if you're sent with a gun, if there's any way to do it.

I know at this point, Ron, we may have to take the risk of doing it, though, that directly.

But we have to get somebody to step up and present this kind of shit.

We just can't do it this year.

Naturally, Cal, or...

I mean, maybe I'm too pessimistic about it.

You don't think it's necessary?

I do think it's necessary, and I think...

Some of it's being done.

I know that there's arching up around there.

Harlow's been in on the act, I see.

Well, they're trying.

Mel is going to see Richardson.

He's going to take a crack at Richardson.

I think he ought to say something about the son of Richard Cox.

That statement yesterday was unacceptable.

That's right.

I hear you.

You see, I will listen to the play out on this.

This is a common problem.

It's a type of problem, all these types of talent.

He was pressed heavily on that particular question, and he tried to please me.

By him?

Yes.

And he was pressing you whether they could indict the president?

Yeah, he said, he was pressuring me, you know, whether he's...

He knows that you can't, that you said no.

He didn't say no.

That's right.

They were studying that.

This is basically because he's dumb.

That's impartisan.

That's why he said that.

But I agree, he should be corrected.

Then gets a cop out and says, no, the emphasis is to be drawn on her.

God saves you.

Why do you think the emphasis is with him?

It's a pity the president chooses to correct you.

He knows damn well he can't do that.

You see, I don't have anybody fighting on our side.

Now, let's face it, we really don't.

Jim Colson.

It's a very believable one.

We've got an hour on us.

What do you mean?

Just let it slide along?

Is that your reminder?

No, it's not.

Do we have fighting on our side?

I have to give you a direct answer.

We don't have anyone out front really wailing away.

Yep.

Cold water.

It's foxhole.

Scott won't say anything.

Ford won't say anything.

I don't know what they have to do to the Congress now.

They're just scared.

I think they're a little guilty.

We thought a week ago they would be done.

We worked on it so hard and mailed letters and everything that maybe they were going to start acting more decently, but not really.

I don't think they're going to act decently until we get these things done.

Then they know where they stand.

Well, I mean, I'd like to see something like that.

You see, Dean's got a little hang out there for a few weeks until Alderman gets on.

Oh, well, you know, Alderman can't be in the way to see any sense.

I don't think he is, but I think he has to make a promise to the committee for sure.

And that, because Irwin and everyone have said it's a mix.

You know, for Dean, it's not that much.

What do you say to that?

Yeah.

Well, no, I feel good about the strategy.

As I've said, I'm concerned about Dean.

I do.

And what I was mulling over is the dilemma we're in and how we really deal with the cops.

You know, how to take them on.

Some senator ought to take him on, a lawyer.

In the Senate, God damn it, somebody should have thought of it.

He should have been out right that next day and said, what in the name of God is he talking about?

To shock these things, to make such an application, he knows better, he should resign.

Tacky.

That's the way you go about your regardless, you know, there's the incompetence and the stars and shit.

That's what really has to be done in a lifetime, thank you.

told everybody i cannot make this the way it's done i will in a proper time but somebody has got you you shouldn't do it i don't know who i don't know we just haven't got anybody to say anything

I mean, out in the country and also in the press, the Senators are saying things.

We've gone over the board parties.

He has said some things.

And still does.

Or at least Scott has said some things.

I read in those days that that played well.

Well, but he's safer than that.

The board is certainly out in the country saying things.

But they're saying...

What about Bush?

Bush is saying, it sure is, it's out around the country and it's good to play in the country, but it doesn't always show up in the national news.

Well, it's hard.

Well, no, no.

The version three has been on the stuff always.

It doesn't get any play, it's been doing it.

Oh, it gets play out in the country.

Well, why in the stuff always?

Charlie Ryan, for example, if you step up against the former chairman of the American Party, the next man on the Hill, why doesn't he hit him?

He wouldn't mind.

Slice up cops.

This is ridiculous.

Whoever knocked off the issue, he likes to fight.

Do you understand, Ron?

You've got to lay off.

I mean, I know that you're hypersensitive about the fact don't get caught planning anything.

Right now, the best thing is to get something out, even if we get caught.

That's my opinion.

I'm not, let me just say that I don't mind planning.

I really am not sensitive about planning things.

It's how we do it, what we plan.

I am absolutely in tune with this attack on Cox.

Yeah.

I'd like to hear it from Charlie Ryan or somebody who might do that.

I think, for example, more effectively, it would be someone in the House, not Charlie.

I mean, in the Senate, and we do it for the Senate.

I think you've got to get that done as hard as possible.

Well, why don't you get a little, let Ryan do this, and get a little bit of help.

Tim, Tim, I'm going to call you.

Tim, it's a call.

All right, I'm calling you.

Now, where are you going to do it?

But I think, I think Dennis will get it done.

All right, put Dennis on this and say, I want a good lawyer to crack the hell out of Cox.

This is shocking.

He said it very well.

What they're, what they're doing now is that they're trying to do my innuendo.

They're trying to continue to run this damn battle.

I just don't feel we're having the voice of praise on our side of the record.

You're not so worried about it, are you?

Well, the tactics they're using is goddamn disturbing, and it is disturbing that somebody doesn't just stand up and say it every time spontaneously.

That's what a partisan should do the minute they're trying to present.

Goddamn it, they ought to do it.

And it shouldn't have to be orchestrated.

On the other hand, it's an understandable phenomenon, and we get there.

I think we've turned the corner already, quite frankly.

I don't necessarily agree with what he says.

I'm not concerned about Dean.

I think Dean is flapping around.

There'll be some pretty hot news items out for a week, and that's gonna be it.

In terms of, I have quite frankly a dilemma here.

My gut reaction would be to go out and blast Cox.

But on the other hand, if you, and I don't want to say this on all stories, but on the other hand, Scott standing up and taking on Cox is good, I think.

That's right.

We should have that done.

But I'm not worried about the Cox thing.

It's an actual part of this.

You're not a good lawyer.

This is so important.

Right, right, right.

This is a very smart show.

Now who's trying to keep this bazaar?

Who's trying to keep the $14,000 story alive?

I don't know how he got that out, but I'm sure he got that thing done yesterday.

Well, Hershey ran it.

That's all right.

It's the same thing for us.

Right.

Hershey?

It's the same thing.

It doesn't work.

Why?

Because he just hasn't proved to be the guy that they'd like to have on going charter.

The thing is, we've got to be thinking about this.

This thing has played well.

I don't care about the paper.

The television was not affected.

He had stuff.

He had live coverage of the rival, which is excellent.

Good TV last night.

Good pictures.

Good crowd.

Good field.

You looked great in your speech.

The president, quite frankly, looked good.

The picture up on the top of that

That balcony waving out is the most dramatic picture that can be taken.

I mean, I still remember as a little kid seeing person that's up there.

That's a very great deal of impact.

The air leaders seeking peace, all of that feeling comes through.

This morning's television was actually very good.

The coverage on the dinner last night, the whole thing was good.

Today we had the Sunday ceremony.

It's good, upbeat, weekly.

And I don't want any photographers on there.

There'll be none on there.

No pictures.

I wouldn't take them all.

I'm close on the bridge.

Good.

Because we're only going to have eight people on there.

Six is six.

I think eight members talk to Henry.

Myself, Gretchen, and Henry.

Good reading.

You were made on Rogers.

Good audience.

Well, I like you.

Yes, sir.

How are you?

You work well with this, uh, writing.

Is that right?

You seem to be pretty well with it.

Yeah, we did a good reading.

We'll bring the camp days to get a little bit colored out and so forth.

These are enough for tomorrow.

Good.

Take good care of them.

We'll check with you up there.

Sure.

We'll try to give you some more.

We're going to do.

We're going to have a lot.

We're actually going to have lots.

Try to talk through.

We're not an agenda.

We talked about it last night.

We're trying to work that out.

Does that present some problems?

That's a problem because we're a legal group.

We haven't been really clear, but we don't want rockets in there.

So we're going to go on the hill all the time.

So Greg and I are going to try to slip up.

We can't hide it yet.

We're going to have a good picture of the campaign tomorrow.

The arrival and so forth.

And the thought is to have the...

I wonder if the arrival is the picture.

No, that's what I'm saying.

what we what we want to do is get the arrival and one of you going into a meeting area and picking him up and walking to acid but then maybe later today i'm going to station a couple of stills out in the trailer and maybe as you're walking in the afternoon we'll get on the center and do the same thing

I don't think about the police anymore.

Why do we think they're not patient?

God, let's get on television.

That's what I want to do.

You know what I mean?

It's heaven.

I just don't have Dane on this week, but in a way it's really better than the country y'all let anyone know.

I think we'll have to take the heat and actually be slow.

The thing is, if you were to furnish the, uh, what you're doing this week, I'll say something.

But Roger's going up there and panicking, and it's unbelievable.

Well, Roger's, and that's probably how Roger's going to be.

Bill has talked around those people so much that, you know, this research doesn't work.

You told him the right thing.

He said, I better be getting this over with.

I said, yeah, we want to get some truth on this thing.

What did he say?

Well, he said, you know, he's such an odd son, but she just said, you know, we couldn't, this had to be good.

We're trying to be a big, fine state in this whole world.

Ha!

Okay, today, uh, you've got some kind of science here in place.

I'm riding over.

I've got the back.

I've got the shot before.

I've got the back before.

Probably my best friend Schultz has ever handed out an element piece.

I know all the stuff that he can write.

In this view, it's the most negative goddamn thing.

It's just unruly for the man.

He just doesn't have any sense about how to deduct it.

You could say negative things that are out the end of the tunnel.

Yeah.

That's what a comment does.

That's right.

Well, I went by a cop in this meeting, too.

Probably Larry should be there.

Yeah, I have Larry there.

Oh, I'm glad you brought that cop in.

He should be there by now.

Yeah, we've already been through it.

I told him, too, but I haven't seen him.

The cop is taking out seven cops.

I already said that Larry, too, would have the best cop.

It might not be a bad idea.

It's a separate story.

What do you think, Al?

I don't think it would hurt Ben.

I mean, fine.

You see, he's very happy with his role and so forth and so on.

Now, I think that helps, and I think it'll help with a lot of people who are still sensitive.

Yeah.

There's a real monkey business going on.

There really is.

They've tried to accommodate it.

They floated the story this morning.

I talked to Conley about it.

But Conley and I had a breach and that was one of the things leading to his leaving.

Just incredible, most incredible thing.

It's not a big story, but it's a little story.

My concern is because it's explained in a way that these Republican plans are falling off the wayside and so forth.

So that, combined with the economic thing, is .

Absolutely.

He could do it.

I said, we'll be at the Camp David tomorrow.

The president will be working up there.

He can step out here in the press room and take it on.

Who's going to talk?

I'd like to talk to her.

Okay, do it to your best.

All right.

the stock market, haven't we?

I don't know.

They're very bad.

Very bad.

And of course, Arthur Burns is .

Yeah, he said he wanted to come in and see me.

I thought, I mean, I'll have to see him sometime.

But I'm going to see him with somebody else.

Arthur is a .

What's he want?

The tax bill?

No, he said he had a plan, and he was going to give it to George this morning.

And I think George can go ahead and see what the hell he's talking about.

Yep.

There's no monopoly on wisdom on this thing.

That's right.

You've got to listen.

Sure.

I think the rest of it is not going badly at all.

It's just that it's just enough.

Most people are... How do people feel, though, when they get anguished at that?

No, I think people feel good about it.

As a matter of fact, the whole thing is... We're going down, we're freezing.

People think everything's under control now, and that they're...

If you lift it, it's going to be another problem.

There's a proper center for this for freedoms and control.

Well, now you've got the George guy here that we're not going to lift in 30 days.

I told him that.

I said, if you want to select it.

So my point is that it may not be anything in 30 days.

Maybe it's 45 days.

But George has got this passion to prove that he's right on the hell with it.

It may or may not.

That's the way they were pressing.

I made the decision that it's going to be 60 days.

Maybe they've got to sell it in 45.

I don't know.

But I'll lay it in to him whenever I get to him.

I told him that it was selective release on things that you could do that on, but that the food and the other things that are, that have been settled on such concern that God damn cure it just isn't to be sued for.

He understands that he just had to know which direction to go in.

He knew which direction to go in.

Yeah, all of a sudden he knew that.

Jarvis talked to him there.

He said over there, he said, how the hell do we get out of this thing fast?

You think basically Al from the country's reactions to the positive on this thing?

You don't hear these bleak panicky screams that were built up for three weeks there.

On the stock market there's not a hell of a lot we can do.

Well, Senator is right.

It's going to turn around.

He predicted the first two days this week would be a disaster, and then it stopped and started again.

Remember what he said?

No, sir.

Why do you think it would be a disaster?

Well, he said it had to run down.

It had to run down because you've gone to controls, and an investor...

you should know it has been nothing but a total pan the ass through about the whole area of the controls and the rest and bitching bitching and bitching we've been wrong most of the time we've got to keep him under control because we don't want him out there left field knocking and uh i guess part of it too is this part of it is that george is strong enough to control these guys

Maybe George, maybe George is going to gain some strength.

I mean, he's got to, can he hack this job or not?

Well, I, I'm not prepared to come down finally on that job.

I have a feeling that the combination of Schultz, Stein, and George is a great dumb lad.

Yes, I am.

He's so doctrinaire, don't you think?

Well, I'm going to be doctrinaire, believe it.

And, basically, so you know I'm involved in that.

And there's no question that phase three was prematurely done.

That was a mistake.

It was prematurely done.

That was George Shultz's mistake all the way.

That's where the mistake was made.

Now, how do you correct that mistake?

What we've done is it's not been totally effective, but I think it has at least turned off what was growing to be a growing panic.

Well, that's the way he talks.

Where we go from here is a very key factor, and I'm so worried that these men are, again, trying to justify and vindicate what they did in phase three.

That worries me.

Keep Laird involved.

He'll put in a political mix that's like nobody's business here.

Make him talk.

Make Schultz talk to Laird.

Go ahead.

That's what I was going to talk to Mary about this morning, to really get into this thing heavily.

We may have to bring in another guy with another view.

It's never good to have totally doctrinaire, consistent men under you.

You're just not getting the other side of the picture.

That's the way it is.

It doesn't have to be an idol.

There's always going to be somebody down, but there's always going to be somebody to put these guys to pain against.

And not just for him, but economically as well.

Yeah.

He'll be here.

He could be.

Laird's totally capable of this.

Right.

We did it for about four years or something.

The copy's got to be in here today.

Maybe Laird should do the copy.

Well, his next book would be done back in here.

I'll tell you where he got it.

He's got it.

When he comes in to me, he says, you know, so let's put in stories about Ron and Conway.

Ron, you've got to know, it's another story today on Ron and Conway.

He leaks it, and then he comes in.

Okay.

Let's leave him out of this, because this is a... Having to be doing something else, maybe with you or something, how's that?

Do an evening with the... With the Catholic people.

This is just a meeting where Schultz is recording.

How's that?

Let's let the economy be the big star in this damn thing.

They said, maybe he's going to go sail.

He don't sail, man.

He's almost proxied down the river, disappeared.

Until, you know, Lares is gonna ride this as much as he can and see how, how far he can get.

But you have to ride it by the helicopter.

That's right.

Oh, he is a good-sitting man.

All right.

May I talk to Larry about that?

I said, you ought to be out at the same time at some point.

In July?

Yes.

But not in July.

He plans on popping out for a day or two.

So I said, we're going to step back down the hill.

Yeah.

He's all right.

We just have to do this.

The people we're working with, we're getting more out of him than we ever get out of us.

You'll make Larry want to step up and see where we can put him.

Yep.

Do you think Larry might have stepped out of the... Did you see Bazaar this morning?

No, I haven't seen him.

Have Bazaar stepped in when you played with his crew.

No, I'm not saying that.

Did he step out of the White House?

He stepped out of the White House.

I know.

I just can't believe it.

We can't lose sight of what we're dealing with.

These bastards are vicious and they're fanatic about it.

And there's no question what their motives are.

Well, they're probably just trying to destroy what we've got in here.

First, they were predicting an urgent facade to cancel.

They threw Jackson out there, Matt, and Rob, right?

That's right.

Then he came.

And they undercut the Paris accomplishment.

They undercut Iceland.

They screwed us on every single thing that's been done here.

They really have.

And I can tell you that economic move was damn good because, essentially, it wasn't a tank.

Had it been attackable, they'd have killed you on the way.

But hasn't that might attack you?

I swear, I don't need everything we're doing.

If they're not really messing on it, it's got to be good.

What about the small one?

He's got a glove.

He hurt his wife.

No, I don't want to talk to him.

He has a number 8.

I want to talk to him.

Come here.

He's getting close for it.

He can tell you that.

But the final bullet, but he's... We ought to fight him.

I'm going to push him to that end, I'm going to say.

Connick, I think, talked to him.

Right, and Mel has talked to him.

Flanagan's very close to him.

He's going to call him.

Oh, yeah, his brother lives there.

He was his campaign manager, his brother.

Yeah, John.

So he's going to call him this morning.

And I'll call him back.

Sorry.

What's that?

Well, we're more or less doing several agreements this morning.

We're plotting how to go about the unraveling of the financial problems of Mr. Lee and his .

Yes, sir.

And I'm going back to the and have another discussion with .

Some of the committee members won't do very badly.

They don't have anybody right now, except for me, though.

We don't want him.

Do we all want us?

Cover us.

I have a man to recommend to.

You mean a man to look into Dean's finances?

Yes.

How much has Dean admitted?

He has admitted that he...

$14,000 of which he used for his personal use, but he says later he replaced it.

But he still has all of the money.

He has the whole $14,000, he says.

Yes, sir.

And he says that in early April he put it in a trust fund.

I'm going to get together with Marge Sands later today, and I think we're going to have to consider whether the committee doesn't demand the money, and perhaps even bring the suit if you want to turn it over.

But there's another question of an additional $22,000, which is a big problem.

Dean called Sands after having gotten the $14,000 of the $22,000 back and told him that they needed $22,000 to replace the $22,000

taken from the 350 so they'd get the whole fielding, went over and picked it up, brought it back, and then got the 22,000.

Now, it's hard to determine whether that was ever put back with the rest of the 350 and delivered or whether it wasn't.

We're trying to run that down at the moment.

There's a question also about the 22.

There's a considerable amount of digging to be done.

Was there any interest in the committee?

Yes.

Really, is there any interest in the press?

I don't think so.

Oh, Cy Hersh is working the story.

The problem with Cy Hersh is, and he had a good story in the New York Times this morning.

What?

Hersh is not the type of reporter who can work on financial matters.

He's just not that precise.

Doesn't have the feel for it.

I made Jack Anderson on Metro Media Television last night.

Jack Anderson handled it on television.

Anderson's capable of working on financial matters.

He's got one good man that can do it, and that's Les Whitten.

Les Whitten can handle financial matters if Anderson will put him on it.

I don't know exactly what Anderson's role in all this is.

You know, one of the people who was arrested down there was one of his former employees.

Anderson failed for him.

Never really explored it that much.

Well, not so much for that.

Well, what do you think that's the best thing that's already worked on this weekend?

I think that's one of the things we have to give priority to.

The committee has been unable to get a copy of the Dean's Statement from him.

He refuses to give it.

They just waited to call off that hearing to let the Delivered Statement Monday night.

Do they have the copies?

They do not have the copies.

He refused to give them until he said he was going to testify.

He said he'd give them to them the night before.

But he was prepared to deliver them to them last night, but really before they even got started on the executive session.

They called the hearing hall, so we wouldn't deliver.

Have you had any report of what went on in the executive session?

I do not have it this morning.

I'll try to get them to run that.

How long did they have it?

Not too long.

They had him for a very brief while, and they really didn't get into too much interrogation.

His lawyer made a long argument for the record that

Public hearing, by then, would make the impossible a fair trial, subsequently.

So they're going to have him back next Monday, in executive session.

As long as you're right with that.

Yes, sir.

And greatly, for the record.

Sure.

To use him in future trials.

I will.

Quite sure.

It's true.

He's got a very good game plan.

I think it's quite impossible, I mean, quite essential that we do our best to see if we can't find additional financial problems to those he admitted to under interrogation on site.

He hasn't told the whole truth yet, and that is critical to what we want to make.

But you don't really have anybody to be afraid of.

What about that?

Yes, sir.

I've got somebody.

I just want to find the right shelter for him to put in.

The man that can do this job best is a fellow named Bob Manuel.

You may remember.

He was monarchy counsel on the Labor Writings Committee.

He did the Billy Saul investigation, Billy Saul SD's investigation for the House.

Why didn't he investigate behind the committee?

Well,

The committee has a right to investigate its funds, and if the urban committee won't do it, then Crete should do it.

That's what I think.

Yes, sir.

Let Crete do it.

I don't have any confidence that they're going to try to in any way embarrass their star leaders.

I think that's true, but we're beginning to get quite a division in that committee.

Do you think so?

Yes, sir.

Gurney has really got his back up.

He wants to go after this all out.

Go after David and his finances.

You heard that?

Yes, sir.

And maybe as you're walking in the afternoon, we'll get on the center and do the same thing.

Oh, yeah, with that one.

I don't think about the police anymore.

Whether we make the competition time to post it.

God, let's get on television.

That's what I want to do.

You know what I mean?

It's heaven.

Halloween, right?

I just don't have Dino this week, but in a way, it's really better for the country.

I'll let you know.

I think we'll have to take the heat next week.

The thing is, it would have tarnished the, uh, what you're doing this week.

Of course, it could have.

Well, they said it would.

But Rogers going up there and panicking at Mansfield is unbelievable.

Well, Rogers, and Mansfield probably are Rogers, you know.

Bill has talked around those people so much that, uh... Bill is respected as a man.

Yeah.

You told him the right thing.

He said, I better be getting this over with.

That's right.

I said...

We want to get some truth on this thing.

What did he say?

Well, he said that he should be such an odd son that Jesus came over.

We couldn't.

This had to be good.

I wish it were trying to be a big, fine state and so forth.

Ha!

Okay, if any of the, uh, suspects have a sign appearing, please.

I'm riding over.

I'm getting back.

According to the shot before, I'm waiting back for a block of green.

I need more rest.

I turned around to six when Schultz sped along.

I wish to stop and check on her, but I can't hear you.

Trouble is, I'm afraid Schultz has never ended up now.

I know all the stuff that he can write in this field.

It's the most negative goddamn thing.

It's just unbelievable.

The man just doesn't have any sense about how he got to it.

But you could say negative things that are up to him.

Yeah.

So that's what a comment does.

That's right.

You know, I might buy a comment that's meaning to probably let her keep it in.

Yeah, I have learned that.

Yeah, we've already done it.

I told you, but I haven't.

Which might not be a bad idea.

It's a separate story.

I don't think it would hurt Ben.

But he's fine.

You see, he's very happy with his role and so forth and so on.

Now, I think that helps, and I think it'll help.

Yeah.

There's a lot of people who are still sensitive.

Yeah.

There's a real monkey business going on.

There really is.

They've tried to come here.

Monkey business?

Yeah, people say, you know, he's a nice man.

They floated the story this morning.

I talked to Conley about it.

But Conley and I had a breach, and that was one of the things leading to his leaving.

Just an incredible, most incredible thing.

It's not a big story, but it's a little story.

My concern is because it's played in a way that Conley's Republican plans are falling off the wayside and so forth.

He said that combined with the economic effect is .

I think he should.

Absolutely.

He could do it.

I said, we'll be up at Camp David tomorrow.

The president will be working up there.

He stepped out here in the press room and take it on.

Why would he?

Who's going to talk about it?

I've talked to him.

He's going to do this over the weekend.

Well, we should talk to him, too.

This is a good day to edit because we won't be making much news otherwise.

Okay, do it to your best.

On the economic side, I noticed they were starting to announce the price rollback and so forth.

Still have the second stock market, haven't we?

I want to do very bad, very bad.

And of course, Arthur Burns is doing his thing.

Yeah, he said he wanted to come in to see me.

I thought I'd have to see him sometime, but I'm going to see him with somebody else.

Arthur is a...

Why?

What's he wanting?

The tax bill?

No, he said he had a plan, and he was going to give it to George this morning, and I think George can go again and see what the hell he's talking about.

Yep.

There's no monopoly on wisdom on this thing.

That's right.

You've got to listen.

Sure.

I think the rest of it is not going badly at all.

It's just that it's just enough.

Most people are...

How do people feel, though, that we shouldn't have it?

No, I think people feel good about it.

As a matter of fact, the whole thing is, if we're going down the frieze, people think everything's under control now.

If you lift it, it's going to be another problem.

There's a proper center for frieze and control.

Now, you've got the majority idea that we're not going to live for 30 days.

I told them.

I said, if you want us to elect this...

Selecting, and my point is that it may not be anything in 30 days.

Maybe it's 45 days, but George has got this passion to prove that he's right on the hell with it.

We may have repressed it.

We may have not.

That's the way they repressed it.

I made the decision that it's going to be 60 days.

Maybe they've got a sum of 45, I don't know.

But, you know, I'll lay it in to them whenever I get to it.

I told him that it was selective release on things that you could do that on, but that the food and the other things that are, that have been settled on such concern that God didn't cure it just as it had been sued for.

He understands that he just had to know which direction to go in.

Did she know which direction to go in?

Yeah.

All of a sudden she knew that Jarvis had touched it there, and they stood over there and said, how the hell did we get out of this thing fast?

In other words, we managed to take them out of the financial evidence and it's going to help the situation.

You think basically, Al, from the country's reactions to the positive on this stuff?

I can't tell you.

You don't hear these bleak and panicky screams that were built up for three weeks there.

On the stock market, there's not a hell of a lot we can do.

They've just bounced around.

Well, Senator's right.

It's going to turn around.

He predicted the first two days this week would be a disaster, and then it stopped and started again.

Remember what he said?

Yes, sir.

Why do you think it would be a disaster?

Well, he said it had to run down.

It had to run down because you've gone to controls, and an investor...

You should know it's been nothing but a total pain in the ass throughout the whole area of the controls and the rest.

And bitching, bitching, and bitching has been wrong most of the time.

We've got to keep him under control because we don't want him out there in the field knocking.

And I guess part of it, too, is that part of it is that George is strong enough to control these guys.

Maybe George, maybe George is going to gain some strength.

I mean, he's got to, can he hack this job or not?

Well, I, I'm not prepared to come down finally on that job.

I have a feeling that the combination of Schultz, Stein, and George is a great dumb lad.

Yes, sir.

He's so doctrinaire, don't you think, sir?

Well, I've become a big doctrinaire, believe it.

And, basically, so he's not involved in that.

And there's no question that phase three was prematurely done.

That was a mistake.

That was George Shultz's mistake all the way.

That's where the mistake was made, yeah.

How do you correct that mistake?

What we've done is it's not been totally effective, but I think it has at least turned off what was growing to be a growing panic.

an escalating cost.

Where we go from here is a very key factor, and I'm so worried that these men are, again, trying to justify and vindicate what they did in phase three.

That worries me.

Keep Laird involved.

He'll put in a political mix of life and money business here.

Make him talk.

Make Schultz talk to Laird.

Go ahead.

That's what I was going to talk to Eric about this morning, to really get into this thing heavily.

We may have to bring in another guy with another view.

It's never good to have totally doctrinaire, consistent men under you.

You're just not getting the other side of the picture.

He doesn't have to be at Iowa.

There's always going to be somebody down.

There's always going to be somebody for these guys to pay against.

And not just for him, but economically as well.

Yeah.

Don't do that.

Blair got this this morning.

We certainly know Blair got this.

We've got him up there.

Biggest light, the arrival.

He had it with the dinner.

He had it with the...

He's got it.

He could be.

Laird's totally capable of this.

Well, yeah, we did it for about four years or something.

The copy's got to be in here today.

Maybe Laird should do the copy.

Well, his next would be done.

I'll tell you where he goes.

When he comes in to me, he says, you know, some of us put in stories about Ron and Conway.

Ron, you've got to know, it's a lovely story today on Ron and Conway.

He leaks it, and then he comes in.

Let's leave him out of this, because this is a... Having to be doing something else, maybe with you or something, how's that?

I'm doing evening with, uh, with the helping of the cabin people.

This is just a meeting where Schultz is recording.

How's that?

I just thought it'd probably be the big star in this damn thing.

This, uh, wedding's going on.

Who's sailing?

You don't sail a man.

It's almost prostrate man where it will disappear.

Until, you know, Klairs is gonna ride this as much as he can and see how, how far he can get.

But you have to ride it on the other side of it.

That's right.

Oh, he is a sick man.

I talked to Larry about that.

I said, you ought to be out at the same time at some point.

In July?

Yes.

He plans on popping out for a day or two.

I said, we're going to step back down the hill.

Yeah.

He's all right.

We just have to do this.

The people we're working with, we're getting more out of him than we ever get out of us.

You and Larry might step up and see where we can put you now.

I don't know.

I just can't believe it.

We may be wrong, but the country may be so

Abbott's intended it as now, just to point out the specifics of that.

That is the lead story, Al.

Well, we can't lose sight of what we're dealing with.

These bastards are vicious, and they're fanatic about it.

And there's no question what their motives are.

Well, they're probably just trying to destroy what we've got in here.

First, they were predicting an urgent facade to cancel.

They threw Jackson out there, back in the ground, right?

That's right.

Then he came.

And they undercut the Paris accomplishment.

They undercut Iceland.

They screwed us on every single thing that's been done here.

There we have it.

And I can tell you that economic move was damn good because, essentially, it wasn't a tank.

Had it been attackable, they'd have killed you on that.

That's the way I would need everything we're doing.

If they're not really messing on it, it's got to be good.

What about this fall?

He got blood.

He hurt his wife.

No, I'm going to call him.

He has a bill or eight.

I'm going to talk to him.

Come here.

He's getting close for it.

He said he had it.

bit the final bullet, but he's... Well, you ought to fight him.

I don't want to push him to die.

I don't want to say I don't.

Connick, I think, talked to him.

Right, and, uh, Mel has talked to him.

Uh, Flanagan's very close to him.

He's going to call him.

Oh, yeah, his brother lives in Colorado.

He was his campaign manager, his brother.

Yeah, John.

So he's going to call him this morning.

Yeah.

And I'll call him back.

Well, we're more or less doing several agreements this morning.

We're plotting how to go about the unraveling of the financial problems and what's to be and isn't.

Yes, sir.

And I'm going back to the Senate and have another discussion with them.

Some of the committee members won't do very badly.

They don't have anybody right now, except Carmen Trevino.

We don't want him.

Do we all want us?

Cover us.

I have a man to recommend to.

You mean a man who wants to do it?

Dean's finances?

Yes.

How much has Dean admitted?

He has admitted that he...

$14,000 of which he used for his personal use, but he says later he replaced it.

But he still has all of the money.

He has the whole $14,000, he says.

And he says that in early April he put it in a trust fund.

I'm going to get together with Myron Sands later today, and I think we're going to have to consider whether the committee doesn't demand the money, and perhaps even bring the suit if you want to turn it over.

But there's another question of an additional $22,000, which is a big problem.

Dean called Sands after having gotten the $14,000 of the $22,000 back and told him that they needed $22,000 to replace the $22,000

taken from the 350 so they'd get the whole fielding, went over and picked it up, brought it back, and then got the 22,000.

Now, it's hard to determine whether that was ever put back with the rest of the 350 and delivered or whether it wasn't.

We're trying to run that down at the moment.

There's a question also about the 22.

There's a considerable amount of digging to be done.

Was there any interest in the committee?

Yes.

Was there really any interest in the press?

I don't think so.

Oh, Cy Hersh is working the story.

The problem with Cy Hersh is, and he had a good story a few times this morning, but Hersh is not the type of reporter who can work on financial matters.

He's just not that precise.

He doesn't have the feel for it.

make jack anderson on metro media television last night jack anderson he's got one good man that can do it and that's less with less women can handle financial matters if anderson will put him on i don't know exactly what anderson's role in all this is you know one of the people who was arrested down there was one of his former employees

I think that's one of the things we have to give priority to.

The committee has been unable to get a copy of Levine's statement.

He refuses to give it.

They just waited to call off that hearing to let me deliver his statement Monday night.

Do they have the copies?

They do not have the copies.

He refused to give them until he said he was going to testify.

He said he'd give them to him the night before.

But he was prepared to deliver them to him last night, but really before they even got started on the executive session

They called the hearing hall and he wouldn't deliver.

Have you had any report of what went on in the executive session?

I do not have it this morning.

I'll try to get a run back.

How long did they have him?

Not too long.

They had him for a very brief while and they really didn't get into too much interrogation.

His lawyer made a long argument for the record that

Public hearing, by then, would make the impossible a fair trial, subsequently.

So they're going to have him back next Monday in executive session.

His lawyer argued that?

Yes, sir.

And greatly, for the record.

Sure.

He'll be using me in future trials.

I will.

Quite usually.

It's true.

He's got a very good game here.

I think it's quite impossible, I mean, quite essential that we do our best to see if we can't find additional financial problems to those he admitted to under interrogation on Saturday.

I mean, he hasn't told the whole truth yet, and that is critical to want to make

But you don't really have anybody to be afraid of.

What about that committee?

Yes, sir.

I've got somebody.

I just want to find the right shelter for him to put in.

The man that can do this job best is a fellow named Bob Manuel.

You may remember.

He was monarchy counsel on the Labor Rights Committee.

He did the Billy Sall investigation, Billy Sall SD's investigation for the House of Representatives.

Why did he investigate behind the committee?

Because the committee has a right to investigate.

The committee has a right to investigate its funds.

And if the urban committee won't do it, then Crete should do it.

That's what I think.

Yes.

Let Crete do it.

I don't have any confidence that they're going to try to in any way embarrass their star leaders.

I think that's true.

But we're beginning to get my position in that committee.

Do you think so?

Yes, sir.

Gurney has really got his back up.

He wants to go after this all out.

Go after David and his finances.

You heard that?

Yes.

You know, I think I mentioned to you before that Gurney was bound to go off by himself during this hearing.

There's never been an investigation yet that Gurney didn't go off by himself somewhere.

Is that right?

Yes.

So he's insisting, and they're apparently going to discuss it further this week.

But I think we want to encourage them to do as much as they will and to sort of keep the heat on them.

Oh, sure.

The committee would do it.

It would be the better thing.

Well, we can't count on them really turning it up.

I agree with that.

We've got to make sure it gets there.

A big advantage of filing a suit is you could have Dean under deposition in a civil suit.

You could have Dean take and give depositions.

I don't think we ought to have the record committee lawyer handle that.

No, no, no.

I don't think they might.

They could just employ a lawyer.

Charlie Ryan would be willing to handle it more if he does.

Charlie Ryan?

Yes.

Too public.

You think it's too much of a... Well, how would he handle it?

Well, he would handle the lawsuit against Dean to recover the funds.

And he's too... Too high-powered for that issue.

I'm afraid so.

He's too close to me.

Leave him alone, then.

Well, if the committee won't use him, then perhaps they ought to hire, the creep ought to hire Bob Mangan.

That's right.

I don't have a lawyer whose name means nothing to anybody.

Well, they'll remember Bob Mangan.

He was a very partisan behaviorist.

Right.

He was about as rough a soldier as we ever had in the republic.

I love that, my man.

Not in the country.

I don't know him that well.

He's not one of your men.

That's the point you stand for.

I mean, you've got to keep in touch with one or the other.

Well, we'd be as partisan as you could be.

Why don't you, uh, let's talk just a minute about strategy.

One thing I noticed this morning was that, oh, that button was shocking to my scum.

I mean, cocks.

Good God.

Donald Keir, and I would make him get right to write a brief little rejoinder there.

I think we're just going to try to get attendance to mind somebody, and maybe Stennis could say something on that.

I don't know.

Is this the time to comment?

That was an utterly shocking thing, really.

This is the first.

It's wrong as far as the Constitution.

It's partisan.

I think it's partisan.

We have, of course, already prepared a memoranda on this point.

Oh, I... Judge, I don't know whether we want a legal memorandum because the president, he's pleading for indictment.

He's just crying.

He knows better than that.

Cops?

No.

Cops.

Oh, he's a highly partisan.

He's a highly partisan fellow, and he's going to play it political.

He knows he can't subpoena the president.

He knows he can't indict the president, but he's going to play this game quite obviously.

He'll try to work it out.

He's going to try to work it out.

We will.

You've got to be prepared for that.

I think we, he said yesterday he had made no decision on whether to get into the same committee property thing or the gifts.

And I'm going to talk to Edgar Richardson.

What's the gift?

Gift of presidential papers and the taxes.

Got one of mine.

We'll handle that one.

I'm going to talk with Elliot.

That is not within the jurisdiction of Dave Cox.

He's got to make it perfectly plain that it's not.

What's that from Elliot Cox?

What the hell is he getting into that for?

Well, what has he defied wrongly?

What's he related to?

He said, all he said was he had decided whether to look into, um... Well, Elliot will give us an idea.

Any allegations against the president, is that what he's for?

Well, then what the hell has Elliot done?

What the hell has Elliot done?

I'm going to call Elliot after this meeting.

God made that cock statement loose.

And Elliot has got to get infected.

And he's the one that needs to speak.

He's got to know that this man hasn't got a money.

God's right.

He's right.

He's got to get into this now.

We expect him to say something.

I mean, this is not, this goes beyond what he's supposed to do.

And you don't get it down here.

Don't you think so?

I think absolutely so.

And I've told Eric practically all this.

I spent three hours with him on surgery.

Did it do any good?

Um, I hope so.

Um, we can't ever tell.

I, um,

He went through his previous press statements with one loved one, and what I thought of each one.

He said he understood my viewpoint.

He understood how I felt rather than people going back and forth.

I think he better did it than you, Al.

He better did it.

This is the shocking thing that they're talking about, the same lamenting property.

And again, for God's sakes, first, let's make it clear to them that I don't have any concern about investigating him, for Christ's sakes.

That's just what I've turned over to this man.

But he's the key to the...

But... Elliot's got that because there's no problem with him.

There's no problem with him, but the basis that should be put on this is that he cannot allow this fellow, for the sake of everybody in government,

to think that this fellow has a hunting license as a Kennedy advocate to go after the Republicans any way he can and the President in particular.

That's right.

Because he's demoralized all the Republicans in government that way.

Scared to death?

Well, that's right.

He's there to get at the Dr. Watergate.

That's right.

And that's his job, right?

He can't do it.

Watergate can't fight.

Watergate and campaign.

All right, fine, fine.

What's he doing with regard to the, what's the grand jury?

Who the hell are they here for?

The grand jury has not been meeting regularly at all.

They met yesterday for a short period.

They've been sealing up evidence they have.

But they're literally waiting on Cox's people to catch up with them.

Cox has fired the prosecutor.

A lawyer from Tennessee.

Worked with Kennedy's administration.

Was the one who handled a client who built Bag Hopper.

When we get through the Urban Committee, we've got to be cautious, right?

When we finish with the Urban Committee, we fire him.

Because the Urban Committee is going to be the focus of publicity.

Right.

It's going to be in court.

It's going to be tedious.

Well, suppose, for example, they think you've got to participate and you get to present without a grand jury and what can affect and indict the public.

You know, they present and indict without a formal indictment.

That's true.

Do you think that's a good idea?

I think you'll probably try.

What would be a good idea?

What do we do about that?

Then we hit him and we just blast the fire out.

That's the only thing we can do.

But if we come out of the heroes in good shape, and I believe we will, and the public should be better with it at that point.

I think at that point, Mr. Cox is going to reach the point where he's going to have a very difficult time

getting the press up to his press conference.

It's just not going to be that kind of news.

It's all going to be with cash.

And by that time, I hope, we'll have the committee with enough information on Democrat financing.

Because the cops can be used to look into that too.

Well, I don't think they're going to dig it up on their own, but we're doing the work on the side, and I think they'll have something to work with.

Yeah, it's a good deal.

We've already got a couple of things going.

What did you request from Jackson with regard to, uh, what you mean, nobody knows?

Perhaps you could find out from Thompson.

Why didn't they, did postpone this hearing?

They postponed... Because they thought being in this country is so embarrassing, and they're regarded as a... No, sir.

They postponed the hearing on Manishfield and Scott's request.

They acted solely on that.

They had not started the cross-examination being in the committee before they got the letter.

The letter came in before they actually started.

Scott Mansfield sent a letter?

Yes, sir.

Bertie Neal lettered asking... Scott Mansfield sent a letter, don't they?

Go ahead.

Asking them to... Mansfield called Scott at home, called Scott in his office.

They got together, drafted the letter, and carried it over to...

They filled with a copy to Earth.

It arrived in the committee before they really got started.

They sent Dean and his lawyer outside while they discussed it.

Then they voted six to one for going on with it.

They said there's been a lot of pressure from some of those who thought they were acting unwisely to crack into this thing this week.

I think it's very mixed at this point.

mixed on the committee.

Incidentally, Calvins was on the Today Show this morning, and with two very anti-president reporters, and Calvins showed himself very well.

They would start out and say, well, since Dean is going to give all this very damaging testimony involving the president,

And Donald said, no, just wait.

You're starting with assumptions that just aren't true.

We don't know what Mrs. Dean's going to testify.

I'm not going to ask any questions based on that.

He did a very good job.

He wasn't crying, was he?

No, sir.

He wasn't.

He went out of his way to not accept their assumptions or their questions.

So that was encouraging.

They were very proud of it.

Who were they?

I forgot who they were.

I saw them.

They were both television people.

On the Today Show, and they had two specials on them.

They were not the ordinary crowd, so they were... Yeah.

They were special for this question.

That's a...

But, uh...

What else do we do about it?

I don't think we're doing bad, Mr. President.

I think we're coming up every day on this, sir.

You do?

And I feel real confident about how these things are going to go.

If Thompson will cross the line with Dean, from what Dean says to himself, then he will cross the line.

Because he's got to admit every piece of security he was ever involved in to prevent his prosecution.

And it's going to be a real sordid record.

And politically, they can't sit there on the television and not interrogate him about it.

They're going to attack him.

Yeah, well, let's still do that.

Obviously, he's got to cover all that up straight.

He doesn't have to wait with him.

And he can say, I admit this, I admit that, I admit it.

In other words, the purpose of that thing is going to be in almost my track.

Yes, sir.

But it's going to be a very sordid record.

And they're going to have to go in and make him explain it in detail.

They cannot just concentrate on his allegations about other people.

He's going to be in conflict with every witness practically that's been involved.

Really?

Yes.

And they're going to have to use the testimony they've had publicly and the testimony that's been given to the staff to cross his enemies.

Plus the stuff that we've given them.

They feel they have to use the questions that we gave them, and use those lines of questioning.

They felt they had to do it Saturday.

That's how this whole money thing came out.

Do they, uh, are they using the White House for these questions?

No, sir.

How did you avoid that?

Well, I told them they could say what they wanted to.

That they were being provided information from the White House.

We were to provide them all kinds of information.

To help them with the investigation.

And I told them if they didn't ask the questions, I was going to publicly blast them off.

Good.

Because they weren't asking for an attorney.

All we want is fairness and a cross-examination.

And we're keeping a record of what...

I don't know if we can get a journey.

But what I'm going to think that's going to swing around is doing the balance.

He's really not...

If he sees that Dean is beginning to crumble, if he sees that he's beginning to look bad, then yes, I anticipate he'll jump on the boat.

Otherwise not.

Yes.

I think Greg will take me now.

Why can't we give him the question, sir?

We are providing him the question station to make sure that... Good.

Uh-huh.

If Thompson doesn't follow through... You see, the thing has got to be in the midst of their own minds.

The president's involved.

Now, he was going to the night of it.

But God damn it, he's going to do it next time.

This whole being crash.

No, it's just got to be done.

I'm convinced that he will, that he'll perfect himself.

Really?

Yes.

As a liar.

And we'll give him all the help we can.

As a liar?

Yes.

Mr. President, he can't go through this whole place and tell a legitimate story and have it stand up under all circumstances.

He doesn't know enough and he doesn't remember enough.

He can't put it all together.

Yes.

Thompson says it's, you know, he wanders, has to generalize, equivocate, as he points.

Yes.

I think we're going to have to.

A bad day of publicity today, and you read this open statement.

Because the press won't play all of the admissions in it.

They'll play the allegations.

Sure.

You know, the election of the president, which is awful, and the president knew who the president said would be if he got the right, but they'll replay that whole thing.

They'll replay it, but it's all been in the press before.

It would be much milder than he has alleged who left hand at me in the press.

It would be a retraction.

That's it.

Basically, it's got to be less volatile than what they've leaked out to my lawyers.

So if we come to be all that day, we're some kind of disclaimer.

I don't quite understand.

Well, we're prepared to go.

If Wilson was.

Bobby's prepared to go if Wilson is quite willing.

I've talked to him at length about what would be said if we got him down.

Right out of Bob's numbers.

Fortunately, Bob was in the end of the meeting and not the beginning of the meeting, so he can't say that you said it after Bob left.

That's why I called Bob in.

So we've got that one mailed up.

We've got... And the fact that he didn't until he hired Schaefer.

And he just, he claims then, in early April, he put this money in the trust.

You know, that's... Oh, he did?

Yes, sir.

That's...

The circumstances on this are really kind of confusing.

I mean, you know...

He put the money in the trust after he got the lawyer?

Yes, sir.

And after he decided to go outside, he put it in just about the same time he decided to go to the prosecutors and bargain for a minute.

This has got to be a very bad moment.

I mean, you know...

Well, let's get to work.

This time, I thought we need to get to the beginning.

The beginning.

Well, we should try it.

What?

You can do it.

No problem.

Thanks.

I follow this very closely.

I'm Donald Kendall.

If you want to do this, yes.

Well, I think we ought to use the same cabinet we used before.

Why?

I mean, it doesn't say, well, here's your chance.

Do you want to use it?

We've got some hot stuff here.

I'll let you go.

Is there anybody else?

Well, I heard you were very interested in this stuff.

He doesn't have a financial man.

The material that's accumulated otherwise can be given to him.

He could be used.

He could be used because the officers are being mad.

And they've been playing on the front page.

But they call me a thousand-person white man.

He doesn't.

But most importers don't like being.

They consume everyone who does it.

Are they just walking away?

No, sir.

They really don't like it.

But they'd be glad to use it.

They'd be glad to use it.

And they'd like to use it.

Well, we've got to take this rough shot next week.

We know that.

And we just tend to do what the guy would do when we please.

That's all there is to it.

Go on with the business of the country.

But as it turned out, I think it's just as well the country's interest had to come first.

They didn't probably cancel it.

We didn't ask for it.

All things told, that came across well.

Baker was on television last night saying, and Irvin, that we did it because...

Manchu and Scott asked us to, you can't go any more likely to get to what Dean would testify on this.

Baker did go out of his way to say this was done out of superabundance of culture.

Does not mean that...

Either way.

So, but I think it came across pretty well, at least.

There were no implications that these testimony was... Is there any way that you think that's up to him, that he could start cracking the jury?

It's a little too early yet, but as soon as he is able to get this, I'm going out to see him.

He said he wanted to see me as soon as the doctors were letting him have this.

But I can't see the whole thing.

Maybe he'll crack it.

You have the other boss to go out and shoot there.

Well, go out and shoot.

I've lost cause, I guess so.

I was not going to work on Dean, of course, because Barry Dean and Dean were from Lakeland College.

Well, we can use Curtis, Ruskin, Thurman, Thurman, Bird, Wilmette.

I think that Dean did work on quite a bit.

No, sir.

I think a lot of men get that stuff on the record first.

Oh.

I don't know.

They ought to work and send it as it comes out.

All right, sir.

Not enough is on the record yet.

Really?

Yes.

Could God just be telling us that it was $5,400, $1,500, $1,300?

He was, but this hadn't been officially released.

And they still haven't covered all of his sentence.

They haven't been involved.

He makes them come out.

Now you really come to think of this subordination, the perjury, the offer of clemency, just to name two.

Right.

They probably haven't done any of that stuff, have they?

Not really.

They asked him briefly about his talk with Schubert.

He confirmed that he was back with the priest from Cougar.

That sort of thing, but no detail.

But this stuff all went on the air.

Great, they went through that.

Great.

Came out and said, Dean, he was talking directly with you.

They don't like these type of dudes, man.

They don't agree that he didn't even fucking record this.

Yes, sir.

That he was living with you first, ma'am.

In 1970.

Yes, sir.

He's going to get...

He's going to be proved a liar, a thief.

It's a corner of crime.

I think he suggests that, sir.

Why don't you just write the whole story off of him?

And get the goddamn thing out before he has to fuck us.

If we can get somebody to print it, we have written the whole story down.

We question who we get to print it without attribution to us.

I think it would be bad.

They're already saying it.

The radio announcer said this morning there's concern that the White House will use this weapon a week to attack Dean's credibility.

That we will allow it?

That we will use this week to attack Dean's credibility.

I don't know who's concerned, boss.

So he didn't put that on Dean's lawyers?

Or the committee, I think.

Or perhaps the committee.

Perhaps the committee.

See, this is a two-frontal.

He said they were really forced to beg him to cancel the first home this week.

And the very fears that we were concerned with, they're concerned with, too.

Which we don't believe that they don't feel that he's a good witness.

They don't think that he is not a good witness.

See, we just thought that's the way things happen.

You don't have to know what they think of the biggest of their hands.

Yes.

They didn't get that much testimony out of it yesterday, the judge.

As long as most of them are talking yesterday.

I've been in touch with Martha's crazy cracking.

Helen Thompson's the devil she'd be.

We didn't regard her matches.

I don't work with her over that.

No, I won't have her.

I don't want her to ever get anything again.

I don't speak to her anymore because of the old Martha's thing.

For her to write these terrible stories and watch the call center that says, John regrets Mr. Grayson.

Christ, she's a desperate husband.

You realize it.

He's denied it.

She said, I bet you she'll never talk to me about this.

Never, never, never.

Of all people.

Huh.

And he has the right to do that.

He's even doing him in.

What?

He's even doing him in with these things.

I know.

How do you work with Helen Collinsville?

I don't know.

I forget.

We can't work with one individual.

God Almighty, I'm going to say that's unconscionable.

Don't do the great weirdness of it.

Do you remember Pearl Tom?

She used to preach the drunk all the time.

There were several drunkards around there.

No, but he or Jeff Bezos, you know, Jeff Bezos, he would walk in, he would walk in, he would walk in, he would walk out.

I've seen those drugs all over the place.

They call them in and out.

Oh, I see.

And nobody had to hit him.

That's right.

It's a personal thing.

It's a personal problem.

I don't think you should break the fact that a guy can drive.

I've read what Mark Ridley says when he's driving.

You're probably right.

They've never written much about cops with this problem.

Were you with Kermit?

Yes.

Do you guys think he drives at all?

Yes.

I didn't know that.

Sometimes four to six weeks, he's just out.

Well, there's no doubt that he's got a problem.

Yes.

He doesn't in front of a jackass like nobody else.

He's always, he's a little guy.

He's a great guy.

He just can't take it.

And frankly, some horrible people have a problem.

It's not a hell of a problem.

I mean, a lot of people have it around here.

But you don't listen to him.

It's not, not decent.

Well, he's just done a few years back in the press with me sometimes.

Well, they use it on us.

Why don't they don't use it on our Democratic candidates?

The double standards.

Well, in any event, you do not feel this week that I accept a mandate yet to say that you're a state minister.

I think you just ought to shit on him for that.

I mean, I don't think we should, but maybe an arrest or somebody ought to not shit on him for such an untouchable thing.

I don't know.

We can have somebody in the Senate get up and take out a complaint.

What do you mean?

Or you don't want to?

I think it makes such a little ripple.

In the current news, I'm not sure we ought to give him another day's headlines.

Well, Senator Lisa, although you seem to chip away at us, you don't seem to chip away at this woman.

People don't pay much attention to that.

It's late in time, but that's not a pickup story.

The town's supposed to have played that, but it was never made for hometown newspapers.

It's just not there.

It made the networks one time last night, but the networks didn't feature this, really.

You know, it was...

The ones that used Cox's Q&A sensibility

He didn't appear like an inspector.

He's serving the will of Laird then, totally.

So, like, Laird got the captain and the first captain off.

Not the president.

I don't give a damn about the law.

Right.

He's not a lawyer.

Right.

But I think it's important that Laird have it.

Don't you agree?

Yes, sir.

And then he knocked the hell out of their sight.

Because some of it would have been like this.

Yeah.

But you know what I mean?

Say, hello.

First, the president wasn't involved.

Second, I don't think I've ever done this kind of rough stuff.

And I think that the man got in and knocked the hell out of the park.

Wait, look what the hell he did.

We've ordered an investigation to get a John Wendell lab out here and get this story out.

I need to report to the... Peterson.

Which he remembers, doesn't he?

Yes, sir.

He better remember that, because I don't know so much about him.

Peterson remembers, sir.

Well, he remembers everything that I've been talking about.

And he talked about my good friend, Bittman.

He must know him well.

For some reason, Bittman must be more alike.

Everybody is concerned about Bittman.

I don't like that.

The matter of that bit, the way it is, I don't hold it.

He's here and I'm talking to him.

He isn't talking to you, sir.

That'll work.

Huh?

You know, I expressed some pride when he said, well, it was better than trying to teach you one in Polish.

But he's supposed to have a lot of good money, isn't he?

He's supposed to be fairly well off.

Of course, sir.

Coulson has some bets that the reason Doc will not go to some whining so often

about his commitments not being made.

Coach missed out, and Dennis says he was raking up from the fun score in the month.

Well, let's get into this one.

So if you get some of those band accounts or something, we'll get on that.

Maybe that's the best game to play.

What do you think?

You know what I'm saying?

Playing under is playing our people rather than theirs.

Yes, that's the best game in town.

But I do not, I regret it.

Let's...

We won't do it the rest of the time.

It won't be.

I don't worry about that.

Hell, I don't think we can charge him with anything, but I'm not going to let you do something about that.

See, it's just that it takes away the guy's motivations.

We ought to bring him in.

He's standing on the mountain.

I'm going to have to call us.

Some television guy.

I don't know what they can do to me.

Talk to Larry and move it.

I will.

I'd like to suggest that.

I'm going to talk to Larry.

Are you sure this sentence is going to be good?

Maybe you should go down to probably several centers, you know, what do you think?

I'm going up in Sacramento.

I didn't go yesterday because of the events, but behind me is something.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But this week, I'll have a chance to go to several.

Right.

What do you think?

I'll do anything to give them some confidence.

Give them what?

Give them confidence that the president wasn't involved, and I can do that.

You know, when we get it moving, it's hard for them.

These guys, they've made a lot of...

They need to read the Washington Post every month.

Hell, they can't receive this for treatments without getting housed, right?

That's true.

They listen to the networks.

They can't hear them without getting housed.

So we have got to back out of the country.

We don't want this, to this every cent, right?

That's true.

But that's because they don't know.

Because they're in the same newspaper, the same poisonous atmosphere.

But here it is.

That's the problem with our companies.

They need to talk to you about it.

Maybe Charlie Ryan can talk or something.

Can you talk or something?

Well, I've asked Charlie who he knows up there.

He doesn't know many of them.

I see.

Um... Garmin.

Garmin.

Yes, sir.

He's already invested more.

Yes, sir.

Well, I, uh, thank you.

I don't, uh, I didn't raise it very strongly.

I'm downhearted about this whole mess.

I just know that, uh, it's a balloon.

It's just a bag.

We've got to fix things.

We've got to work on it.

How do you feel about it?

I think I was thinking, of course, you know, this is going on over and over again.

It affects the people in this town.

Here, it's actually working.

What's happening is these guys are shaken.

They read it every day.

They don't know.

The best thing we could do, though, is destroy that goddamn thing.

You see, the motivation for Eric is, is for people to taste his martial assault.

And he started stealing baby women.

Then, of course, he...

There's nothing in a man worth doing to try to get out of the wound.

That's the best single thing that we can and try to take on, sir, because, uh,

Dean has been totally uncredited.

Yeah, he's lost all credibility.

As a matter of fact, he has the motivation for a really deep drive.

Just for a reason.

I wondered if you would mind going to that call in, which is giving me a report of this year.

I could, I could call them now and say, uh, before I go to the strike, and say, look, where is this, this cop status?

Going to the time when the department is going to print the papers.

Now, first, I would like to understand

I want this one as an indisputable ruling.

But Sam, if you do not do this, then we're going to have to say something to the White House about your role.

I want him to know now.

Frankly, he's a... Or do you want to put him on the game?

I don't know.

I've got to make him play with that.

I mean, the way the minutes get, because it's a fire about a year.

That's right.

I want him to want to raise these questions of indecency.

God damn it.

He has a responsibility.

He's turned into at least a partisan maniac.

He's got to exercise some of his strength.

We paid too high a price there, Al, and we told him we were going to try to get somebody like a... some reasonable decent person, and he finds them at the hardware department.

Archibald Cox.

I don't know if he had it confirmed.

No, that wasn't him.

But we were in a hell of a spot then.

We had to get a few hands right over the barrel.

And, uh...

I'm very confident that we're moving in the right direction.

A lot of them ask, he said, you know, because the press will ask, he said, like, the other night, that I, I should ask about Watergate, and he said, well, there's no, no problem there, Jimmy.

And he said, it's true, it's real.

And he's, you know, he's such a liberal that he probably, you know, he's not a liberal, he's such a, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know.

If he's delusional, it's only that.

Yep.

Because he wants to survive.

He's a man.

We don't want him to come in and then have the Dean thing rock him.

No.

That's quite the point.

No, I told him this.

I said, we're going to have a...

He mentioned it to me.

I said, well, God, will you be very nice to me?

I said, this guy Dean is an ass, and he's going to make some accusations.

I said, well, we'll get him to the time.

And that's just because he's a liar.

And in fact, he may be an idiot.

So he was raised by .

He said, I'm not aware.

We don't know.

And I said, to read the President's statement was a thing.

Right.

But that was done after the most careful consideration that it had.

Really good to say all that we wanted to say because .

I said the fundamental truths that are unchallenged people are not his.

Change that.

Basically, that's what we've got to say all the time.

That's true.

In May 22nd, the president said he was not involved in the break.

He was not involved in the cover-up.

He had no knowledge of that statement.

They are the truth.

And they've got to be done here.

That's if we would have been quiet enough that we all would have been expected to have been lucky to have been reduced to an era where we're all going to be handled up.

That's it, that's all.

I mean, they don't make any headlines and all that sort of thing.

I mean, they tell them anything when it's already done.

But this whole ludicrous million dollar thing is such a...

I mean, when you really stop and think of it, it's totally ludicrous.

And the president said, here, tell them I'll get a raise of a million dollars in the next four years.

He did that.

And that's how he did it.

I know he did that.

Had to meet with Mitchell.

Just a fool, I mean, anyway.

Hard work.

But...