{"conversationCode":"947-005","tapeNumber":947,"conversationNumber":5,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-947-005","startDateTime":"1973-07-10T15:02:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1973-07-10T15:22:00.000Z","startDate":"10-Jul-1973","startTime":"11:02 AM","endDate":"10-Jul-1973","endTime":"11:22 AM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"estimated","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Bull, Stephen B.;","description":"On July 10, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 11:02 am and 11:22 am. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 947-005 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"OVAL","recordingDevice":"Oval Office","latitudeEstimated":38.8974,"longitudeEstimated":-77.0374,"chronCode":"5.5","chronRelease":"Fifth Chronological Release: Part V","chronReleaseDate":"21-Aug-2013","aogpRelease":"Abuse of Governmental Power Release","aogpSegment":"Segment 1; Segment 2","lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 947-5\n\nDate: July 10, 1973\nTime: Unknown between 11:02 am and 11:22 am\nLocation: Oval Office\n\nThe President met with Stephen B. Bull.\n\n       Alexander M. Haig, Jr.’s schedule\n             -Delivery of item\n                    -Questions\n\n       Bull’s conversation with H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman\n               -September 15, 1972 tape\n                      -Haldeman’s forthcoming testimony\n                      -Review by Haldeman\n\n       President’s schedule\n              -Meeting with Walter Scheel\n                      -Haig’s recommendation\n                             -Revisits\n                                    -Head-of-state level\n                      -West Germany\n                      -Henry A. Kissinger’s recommendation\n                             -Compared with meeting with Michel Jobert [June 29, 1973]\n                             -Timing\n                             -Duration\n                             -Scheel’s English fluency\n              -Graham Martin\n                      -Kissinger\n                      -Republic of Vietnam ambassador\n              -National Commission on Fire Prevention and Control\n\f                                                -11-\n\n                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM\n\n                                                             Conversation No. 947-5 (cont’d)\n\n                      -Presentation of report\n                      -White House fire drill\n                      -National Broadcasting Company [NBC] reporter’s question\n              -Haig\n\nBull left at an unknown time before 11:22 am.","filename":["947-005.mp3"],"tapeStart":"","tapeEnd":"","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Bull, Stephen B."],"prevCode":"947-004","nextCode":"947-006","transcript":[{"start":22.38,"end":35.15,"text":"Ask that I mention to you, or that you guide us on that, whether you thought it advisable that he listen to the September 15th tape, or whether I set it up for you, or just disregard it altogether."},{"start":36.17,"end":43.27,"text":"Bob has to testify, and it might be helpful for him, but he wasn't sure of the best way to handle it."},{"start":43.3,"end":45.74,"text":"I can be available to him, that knows me, therefore."},{"start":80.46,"end":89.6,"text":"And he recommends against because it's inconsistent with the policy of saying people below the Hennessy level."},{"start":89.92,"end":95.66,"text":"But Henry Kissinger's recommendation should be this week requested by Chairman and Minister Walter Scheel."},{"start":95.7,"end":102.28,"text":"This is an issue that was shown there last week."},{"start":104.42,"end":107.08,"text":"Al is aware of your policy."},{"start":107.89,"end":113.15,"text":"We should have this meeting every Thursday night at 730."},{"start":113.19,"end":113.59,"text":"At 39, 50, or 20."},{"start":137.08,"end":144.13,"text":"And also, all right, this week, this would be our first lesson for the main meeting."},{"start":145.53,"end":155.02,"text":"And this is a, basically, I don't think we'll talk about it, but a presentation of the report of the National Commission on Fire Prevention and Control."},{"start":156.16,"end":161.26,"text":"This is something prior to July 15th."},{"start":161.28,"end":162.14,"text":"Last year, you met with"},{"start":190.91,"end":195.9,"text":"Two years ago, an ABC reporter was asked about the fire."},{"start":196.18,"end":196.44,"text":"Fire."},{"start":240.37,"end":241.97,"text":"I'm really a little uncertain, I think, about the Pocariot."},{"start":242.09,"end":248.59,"text":"And I may be misrepresenting it by using the term Pocariot."},{"start":252.51,"end":262.54,"text":"He thought it might be advantageous for you, or did he ever, he thought himself, I guess he testified to that."},{"start":293.77,"end":303.52,"text":"Okay, why don't you tell him this, that I recall she has come in and given me his own notice."},{"start":303.56,"end":309.55,"text":"You know, I had reported on his own notice me this time."},{"start":309.56,"end":318.97,"text":"Now, that I, uh, I feel that he should face this testimony."},{"start":322.3,"end":325.27,"text":"on those notes."},{"start":325.29,"end":326.37,"text":"You should listen to this tape."},{"start":330.97,"end":346.23,"text":"And only if there is something on the total tape which, which directly, uh, which goes beyond these notes,"},{"start":351.03,"end":358.6,"text":"He may have said, should he refresh his recollection, in other words, his, you understand what I mean?"},{"start":358.62,"end":378.93,"text":"Only if there's something which is directly relevant to that, because otherwise, that is, that he's, that his, that his best, that his best approach is something that he takes his own notice."},{"start":380.11,"end":380.63,"text":"made at the time."},{"start":380.65,"end":386.46,"text":"And to use that as the basis for his testimony, that's what we need."},{"start":386.48,"end":391.41,"text":"Only if there is, if the tape brings them something."},{"start":426.9,"end":430,"text":"It's quite a bit."},{"start":430.06,"end":438.63,"text":"His own notes should be his primary source."},{"start":439.09,"end":441.87,"text":"Is he in town?"},{"start":441.91,"end":442.35,"text":"Yes, sir."},{"start":442.45,"end":446.97,"text":"He isn't in the building."},{"start":447.01,"end":449.33,"text":"Where could you have him do this?"},{"start":450.35,"end":454.3,"text":"Well, I thought I could either take it over to his"},{"start":456.13,"end":458.12,"text":"to his hotel, he's staying at the Stadler Hill."},{"start":458.24,"end":462.04,"text":"Or I could have him come out to my house."},{"start":463.3,"end":465.94,"text":"Whatever is convenient for him."},{"start":465.96,"end":467.9,"text":"You could just take it out and treat it to your teachers."},{"start":467.94,"end":472.89,"text":"I'm telling you, yes, it may be a great place home anyway, so it would be a very logical thing."},{"start":498.15,"end":499.41,"text":"Alright."},{"start":499.43,"end":499.61,"text":"Alright."},{"start":499.63,"end":499.91,"text":"Good evening."},{"start":500.67,"end":501.57,"text":"You report back to me."},{"start":501.81,"end":505.19,"text":"There's reflections on it."},{"start":505.23,"end":506.65,"text":"You have to look right away."},{"start":506.67,"end":507.19,"text":"Get it done."},{"start":507.95,"end":509.37,"text":"I'd like to know what he finds out."},{"start":509.41,"end":514.97,"text":"Good evening."},{"start":515.01,"end":516.77,"text":"You report back to me."},{"start":517.05,"end":520.32,"text":"There's reflections on it."},{"start":520.34,"end":521.12,"text":"You have to look right away."},{"start":521.14,"end":522,"text":"Get it done."},{"start":522.1,"end":524.58,"text":"I'd like to know what he finds out."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon met with his aide Stephen B. Bull to coordinate administrative tasks and address pending testimony preparations for H.R. \"Bob\" Haldeman. The President directed that Haldeman rely primarily on his own contemporaneous notes for his upcoming testimony, advising him to listen to the September 15, 1972, tape only if it contained information directly relevant to his notes. Additionally, they reviewed scheduling matters regarding a potential meeting with West German Minister Walter Scheel and the presentation of a report from the National Commission on Fire Prevention and Control.","topics":["H.R. Haldeman","Watergate testimony","White House tapes","Walter Scheel","Presidential scheduling","National Commission on Fire Prevention and Control"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-09T00:46:57.626Z"},"topicSlugs":["h-r-haldeman","watergate-testimony","white-house-tapes","walter-scheel","presidential-scheduling","national-commission-on-fire-prevention-and-control"],"audioDurationSec":515,"audioFiles":[{"file":"947-005.mp3","bytes":16967645,"durationSec":514.8,"bitrate":263677,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:20:06.981Z","findingAidSource":"nixonlibrary.gov subject log (2024-05), reslice-v2","findingAidUpdatedAt":"2026-09-18T08:45:07.531Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/947-005.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/947-005","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/947/conversation-947-005","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}