Nixon & Woods on Watergate scandal and Ervin Committee

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Oh, he demagogues.

He's the worst demagoguer yet.

I call Marge, Buzz Marge, to come in and see him, because... Somebody would...

I'd like to see him, too.

Mitchell's an animal.

I know.

I want you to know that at the end of this, this little squirt, because he's so small, he screams.

He was metered in, and he's been named as far as... Well, he looked like a great...

But he...

Then he got sober.

Then Mitchell's answers were very calm, cool.

Then the lights went off in the committee room at one point.

But Mitchell even said, in retrospect maybe, he mentioned something about taking everybody out in the White House long before White House staff.

So, Mitchell says, well, maybe, in retrospect, maybe he just should have taken them out, as you suggest, Senator, and tried to find out what happened, or maybe he thinks he should have just shot all of them.

Is that what Baker suggested, taking them out, quite honestly, to find out who was involved?

I was trying to force Mitchell into talking about his perception on presidency.

Mitchell stuck to his point that as the head of the campaign and as a citizen of this country,

The most important thing in his mind was the re-election of this president, because of the absolute lack of a, you know, a confident man.

You don't think we can get a few people to get him?

I mean, there's a, just for our peace of mind, we've got a few we can't call names.

He said to me, he said to me, he said, if you start to give me names, we're starting to get caught together.

And I bet he'll get a lot of them to do it.

I'm going to call my son a man, too.

All right.

That's exactly why I didn't want to handle that.

I don't think they will now.

Why not?

He didn't do it.

He gave the money.

He didn't do any of the monitoring.

No, maybe they're going to go in later on the Watergate thing.

Every period that we have.

Yeah.

We have papers and so forth and so on.

And they won't believe the fact that he gave the version to Sons Rock.

You know, he is, he's been on the presentation for years.

I know.

He's made hundreds of thousands of dollars in rows, hundreds of thousands of dollars.

The trade of the walk is $100,000 a stock.

I know.

Well, we can ask.

Certainly, we can ask.

Somebody can ask you that.

It's gone.

I'm glad it's gone.

Well, Mitchell was, he really, like he said, there's no way.

He said, don't you think he should know?

You don't, should we tell her?

And Mitchell said, well, there's no way, President.

He said, in every department.

I'm excited for what the President is doing.

No, he didn't make that up.

He was working on peace in Vietnam over and against the majority of the United States Senate.

He accomplished that.

No, he didn't.

We should have gotten that to him.

Well, that's all right.

That's all right.

But he did say.

Oh, yeah.

He's talking and making points.

Mitchell did say, though, that he was part of the test.

You could tell on the

Great.

You can tell him.

Good God.

I thought it made him some of the more worrisome things, but you could tell him to change it up.

But then, to me, the hypocrisy was putting his arm around you.

Someday I'll tell you all about this.

What in the name of God do you think he's trying to tell you?

Making a record of being there and all that sort of thing.

But what Mitchell did tell me was that in every department, in this government, an awful lot of people make decisions, and they never, and they do not get them up to the president.

A lot of them that should be gotten up, you know.

He really has handled himself beautifully.

I think to stay calm and cool is the way he has.

And we could hardly expect him to be before I'm called today.

You've always followed him through the years, as you've done with Louis and all this stuff.

That he was quite a hot shot.

And that he ought to be the leader, remember?

He thought he ought to be the leader.

This man, big, has no character.

I have always felt that.

He ought to be the leader.

He ought to have no character.

I know.

So he finds his three-nighters, Mark and Brock.

Brock has some character.

Howard Baker has some character.

Well, let me tell you, though, that Louis did not.

Louis helped him out and wanted him to get somewhere because Dirksen had asked him.

And he really wasn't fond of Dirksen.

That's it.

He has always himself said that this is a very weak man.

He said that?

Yes.

Many times to me.

Many times.

Even when he was trying to help me.

He said he was weak.

Yeah, he was weak.

She was on time.

They were at the BBC, and she was in Texas for a tour of Manchester Bay.

And I wish David would stay off.

I wish David would stay off.

Why?

It's like difference with her on the same show.

Yeah, just either shut up or not get on the show.

Right, right.

They could do a different show.

No, BBC.

He said you should talk, you should speak out right now because of the, to say the office of president.

Well, I know, but we're getting mail.

Julie had a quick thing.

We've got to stop resigning, and David ought to shut up altogether.

Oh, it makes it more incredible.

Let me talk about it.

She's doing a hell of a job.

She is, I know.

Well, I'm glad that you're all here.

I was really concerned about him because I was concerned about his drinking and I was concerned about his tremor and I was concerned about his arm in the background.

I was very concerned about his loyalty.

You know, good God, John drove himself into the store before anybody on our staff would.

But by God, but John Mitchell, I just didn't know what to do.

And I also was concerned that Dean McGregor, McGregor would have done an awful lot.

You know, he put it to the end very nicely yesterday.

I think so.

Well, they didn't ask him very much, but when he answered some, you know, things he did.

But everything he did, he did in a very smooth manner.

He never showed any irritation.

And he looks even stronger today than yesterday.

And cooler, and he's getting tough questions.

Makes you kind of proud of him.

I was so proud of him.

I wish I had known where he was at that time.

I didn't call him.

I didn't call him, and I don't know why that's not going to reach him.

I don't know where he is.

He must be staying in a hotel or off with a friend or something.

Well, he has to be out for you.

He can't reach you.

Oh, he has to be where?

Apparently he ate so I was straight a bit on the earth.

It was Monday night.

Yeah, and he's shown up in the... And I'm sure he insisted that they keep Mark in the house.

They've asked him 35, 50 different ways to try to get him to say that he either felt you knew that he had told you or did he think all of them or somebody else had told you.

He has answered every time.

He has answered so strongly.

And if they ask two or three questions at once, he'll say, now, which one did you want me to answer?

You know, some of the other little kids go in and tell a whole big story.

John just answered what they'd ask.

Well, John, as you know, he's in this office, and I don't know if you know what he said.

And he did.

That's all he said.

He also said that if you had known all of this, that you would have exposed all of this, and to expose all of this, and the country go down the drain by the...

Polar opposition, I'm not interested in that one.

You know what, well that's what he said.

In other words, you know, if it had been this really serious...

You know, the young Republicans, you heard about their defeat many times, and they're putting it out.

Nobody got ground for the water game.

Great.

I said put it down.

Have a few, just have that sort of an odd persuasion to get around here.

And a lot of people started, we got some stickers in, ma'am to me from Ohio, I don't know from who, but saying, John Dean got a big muck.

That's what the idea of mucker stickers too, nobody got around it.

Well, why don't you have to realize it?

They ran the name search for eight weeks.

They put him on the cover two weeks in total.

Right.

They put him on all three networks.

And they're putting John Mitchell on one network.

They are.

They're taking turns.

Today NBC has it.

Yesterday was ABC.

I talked about it last night.

I got that.

I went to a party last night.

I knew there were going to be quite a few Democrats.

It's not a week.

It's a week.

So I wore this presidential seal.

And I had a dress cut so it showed.

And when I walked in, somebody said, thank God you've got the flag flying.

Because I didn't want to.

I have to say this, and that's a terrible thing about that.

Of course, we don't have anybody around.

I don't want our soldiers to be here.

I shouldn't be.

John Mitchell, I can't watch you being off.

But they don't want him to be seen.

They know he's going to be for us.

So that's that.

They put Dean on hold.

Now they say, now we've gone back to experimenting again with this.

That's what they'll do to hold them nervous.

Chris, I think they really thought they were going to get such a shake in John Mitchell from the story that I'm surprised they didn't put him in all three networks, thinking they could blow it.

No, I thought that's what happened.

He was probably so good at his four hours of...

They probably call it that for conservative boys.

It's all a conspiracy.

They may well have.

Because the New York papers had it listed on all three networks.

The Times, as far as you know.

I don't know about you, but maybe you might try to do this.

There's somebody calling you to say, why don't you cover me?

Instead of you asking people to call you.

You know, Jim Haggerty's office is doing a good job.

Why am I asking what happened?

Ask Haggerty.

Say, what's the story here?

We've had over a hundred calls on this.

You ought to really dig it up.

Not bad.

The other thing is... Because Mitchell's a much bigger man than Dean.

Not that Dean, really.

But basically what I'm saying is...

They know.

They shot their big gun.

It hit.

It would read all the deep stuff, you see.

He was dead.

He had to be careful because it was possibly perjured.

His immunity does not cover perjury, you see.

His immunity only covers what they were talking about.

And his immunity doesn't cover anything somebody else talked about.

They really thought, I mean, that little sapphire was fun to see rot.

He said, you know, the people at the time, so they said, well, we almost got the son of a bitch.

He said, really?

Uh-huh.

Yeah, that sapphire's doing a great job.

Did you see that one he did on Dane?

He did.

Yeah, it's in your FYI.

Well, Reed, you'll enjoy it.

It's funny.

It's taking the place of an art hobby now.

Art what?

Art hobby.

It's on vacation.

And Zach, I wrote one of his columns.

And it's good.

Good.

They're paying him enough to give me $5,000.

I don't see either of their right to do anything else.

I'm sorry.

He's smart and capable.

Well, that's something to say about what I mean, but it's after they have Mitchell all heard.

That's right.

Well, that's what Mitchell has said.

After you've gotten all this out of the way.

You know, you walk other walkers by and you really have to answer.

They say, well, now you didn't cover this.

What about this?

What about the one?

I'm not going to go out there and talk about dwarfhood and wallop and watergates and wring my hands all the time.

I mean, that's a general point of view alongside.

Thank you.

That is Pat Buchanan's idea to go out

I bet Pat McCann doesn't think you ought to go out in the long run.

That's the other point.

Sorry, I don't mind.

You see, basically, there is a split rose among people.

Where they are, there are...

They're all concerned about what that person does.

They feel alive by asking, don't ask if they can do that sort of thing.

Carson learns.

Guns answer.

Yeah, and don't fire extra son-of-a-bitch talk.

Fire an extra all-in-one talk.

Right.

Because I tell you, if I were 69 and I did it, I really will.

I wouldn't be able to pass him about anything.

And I told everybody I talked to last night that, as a matter of fact, his bringing my name into that, that he knew the man, and the only thing I ever did was call and ask him to talk to Dr. Ryland and tell him what to do, you know, whether to go to counsel or what, which was perfectly proper.

And so I told his people last night, and also, Dean was still on our staff.

He knows that the doctor was indicted and yet he refused to give the name, so it sounded like a boyfriend almost of mine, and I called back.

I don't know.

I've only seen one.

I mean, he's a...

He's a very repulsed character.

He's late in all the... Oh!

Every... You see, he's...

He wrote a random campaign.

We're going to copy that.

Which is supposed to be a report.

And that which...

He didn't attack the president at all.

He made all this up.

But they told him, you've got to get the president, or you're going to get an interview.

Oh, and we have the other memo?

He's an evil man.

Well, I think what has happened is he's become basically a degenerate.

I'm afraid.

I understand.

I think that he must have done something decent in an earlier time because he thought it was his job.

But he and the group are very much alike.

They're very different sometimes.

But they're not hot shots that just want the business for themselves.

Looking on at himself.

It's a very curious thing.

I was in Egypt at different times, and it was, to me, a very revealing statement that the reason they didn't want to go to prison is because they were so good-looking and homosexual.

I had wondered if there was something there.

I read about both ways.

There was a poor brooder that has four kids.

His wife is pregnant.

But poor Magruder isn't easy.

It's just like you mentioned.

Magruder should never have been brought back.

He was known to it in California.

I feel for the kids and the wives.

But Magruder was a bad man to come on the White House.

Damn it, everybody in California knew it when he came and they tried to tell our people.

I know.

And being a son of a bitch.

Yeah, that's right, that's right.

And a guy who went through that sort of thing should never become president of the United States.

That's a very, very bad choice to make for people.

All done.

The main thing, Rose, is to put all the, you know, the main thing is to be totally confident.

Oh, I understand.

You need to have the algorithm of the business.

And this is, this drives the people like so much.

Of course, that's killing her right there.

Oh, she's awful.

She's dying now because she's afraid we're going to survive.

That's the reason.

Not because we're going to survive.

And you know that awful spirit, right?

They're not people.

They can write an article, Rosemary was stained by scandal.

That's the thing.

Really?

I haven't gotten a copy of it yet.

When I do, I'll see what it says.

She's a terrible woman.

Well, the Republicans, you know, took her.

She was over there, and I had her.

No, she wasn't a Republican.

Even then, she was posing, I think, this time.

She had never written a good word about this administration.

Not one good word.

She was not in the Senate.

Yeah, but she... Now that you want to run away with the Sapphire...

It hurts a lot.

It may be worse that way.

We ran through a few.

We got Sapphire, Garland.

That's right.

Chopper.

But I blazed the roads with a gun.

We could count on a little kite every time we see her.

She'd drown.

Well, we go to things like Kansas City, and you see her just pushing everybody and crap out of her way.

She's just a beast.

Also, she's out there wearing slacks.

Looks awful.

She's pushing people.

Well, they shouldn't be out there with a plane wearing slacks.

She's pushing herself up and so forth and so on.

Well, she's really awful.

Yeah, Jim Rogers called and told me that he's in a critical state now, but that it meant so much for Pat and Shirley.

And I went and called Pat to tell her, too, that it was exactly the right day.

The next day, they knew he had to go to get another blood transfusion.

But now he's home and he's so sedated.

But when he was not sedated, he's talked off and on about, like he's talked about getting a gun.

But he has also talked about the fact that he was born a Catholic as a practitioner.

Oh, yeah.

And so Jim called a priest that she knew because it was obviously something that was, you know, bothering him.

And she said this priest was apparently a very, very nice, nice person.

And Matt said, oh, well, no priest will want to come, you know, because I don't know.

The priest came, and he and Matt set it off beautifully.

And she said that... Well, Kathy gave him the last rites, and he says the rites.

He did.

Oh, sure.

Sure.

But she said that Matt then got out some kind of a beautiful old cross that his mother had had, and had it up by the bed.

And she said, there's a great difference.

The call...

He's ready to die.

Uh-huh.

He was a gutsy guy.

He came back here for that inauguration, had a good time, and never let off any, you know, he laughed.

He's never yet been really out.

He's always had such fun.

He's always on ice.

He hasn't been more than that.

He's not that much longer.

He always had dolls with her.

All right.

Well, I don't want to get you down.

Well, there you go.

I know you get the calls and threats.

Oh, but...

They do this, why don't you do that?

But there's a lot of threats.

But most of the people I get are friends.

But Bob Trey, the party that I met, he gave it to us.

I guess we'll call him after we get back.

And he has always told me that I should go to more parties, because I'm always up, and I'm always, and nobody, you know, just, even Brown Reef was there last night, and I said to him, he came back into the, it was at the entry stop, back into the bar to say goodbye to me, and you know, so I was wearing contact lenses, remember the thick glasses he used to wear?

He had contact lenses and so forth, and I said,

He said, you know, he's being so good.

And I said, you know, someday you'll get back where you belong.

You know.

We don't want it.

Nobody wants it.

We belong to you.

No, that's the first thing.

It was the power of David we talked about.

And I'm going to call you back after that.

That's right.

God damn it.

I had some people.

I had a large call from David's office.

I just called out and said, this is more shocking than violence.

And we've brought all of them this time.

We've lost us.

I'm sure you'll find you'll have a message in the center, you know.

Nixon & Woods on Watergate scandal and Ervin Committee

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on July 11, 1973

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