Nixon & Ziegler on Watergate and Ervin Committee

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Oh, how's that?

Good, baby.

Mitchell continues to hang in there strong.

I didn't hear that.

Oh, that's true.

Well, that Baker kind of, you know, was serving rough on him.

I'm not deciding with Baker, but I don't... One thing that Baker said that the people I had monitored were pretty pleased about is that Baker, when Mitchell, you know, stuck to a story that the president would have lowered the vote, that Baker said, well, he agrees.

He said that

felt that the president would have done just that and he said that he felt Mitchell's hindsight was just right and Mitchell didn't tell the president because he was afraid that as he said the president would have lowered the bill and that he's staying right with that story and Baker apparently associated himself and was fairly effective in that association with that conclusion that he would have lowered the bill he should but hell yes he should

But as to whether he's, you know, I'm sure what he did, I'm sure what Rose said is absolutely correct.

The wires would say that John Mitchell said today he told President Nixon nothing of the meetings which led up to the Watergate bar tapping because he had rejected the plan and assumed these matters were over and done with.

Well, that's my version.

I'll tell you, the people are writing good stuff about Mitchell.

I think I mentioned that to you this morning.

No, I told you that.

Betty Neal had the piece this morning, and people thought that Mitchell was down and out, but he came back with the same old spark.

I think he's coming out of this all right.

of the Wall Street Journal.

Wanuski.

Is that right?

Yeah.

Wanuski?

Wanuski.

Wanuski wrote a very damning piece this morning on Dean, again assessing the credibility of his testimony.

So that's... What was his theme today?

His theme basically was that he went to the Camp David report, analyzed that, went to the

I'll tell you, I may be wrong.

I'll do exactly what you instructed me to do.

But I think if we get our cabinet people out focusing on that.

Oh, they're starting to, I think.

Well, it was, uh, he, he prepared it before the 28th.

We don't have a date on, on when he wrote it.

Before the 28th?

I see.

Uh-huh.

See, the one on this he points out, of course, what Dean did write at Camp David, he says, Exhibit 39, so that Watergate could get this in the committee.

Pins the Watergate directly and solely on Liddy, although it does implicate McGruder, Metro Hall, and early on.

But not Dean.

Yeah, and Dean.

It says, furthermore, instead of encompassing Mr. Dean's alleged desire to end the cover-up and remove the cancer from the president,

This Camp David report not only makes no mention of his first-hand knowledge of President Nixon's involvement, but also exonerates the president.

This happens to be the truth.

He said it's possible that Dean believes his testimony, but there's no question that his perspective has been warped during the passage from the pro-Nixon to the anti-Nixon phase of his personal odyssey.

Well, it's been warped by one thing.

Immunity.

That is, he pointed out.

No, he gets into the immunity.

Yeah, that's the real thing.

He also points out that it is a fact that in the president's 27 years in public life, never have you been caught, as he points out, or accused of lying in any of your public statements.

And he said, if you had been, that that would be something that certainly would have been what he says is falsehood.

He said, if that had been the case by now, we surely would have been reminded of it.

Sure.

Well, we're, we're kind.

Sure.

We've got a story for the CPS.

But the dividing line is imminent.

So on the 28th, he was trying to tell the truth.

After the 28th, he had to end the campaign.

He was told by the prosecutor to get the president.

And it really got down to a cold, heavy place.

And he had to get the ring permission, at least he thought that.

And also, look back on April 17th, I should have worked at Wheeling.

Absolutely.

That's what really triggered him, you know.

Which, of course, I think became the superlative component of the system.

They were right, though.

I had the sympathy to give it to him, but you think so?

Well, we can't simply guess that now, on the basis of what...

In a way, giving to a young identity would behave better, you know, toward the president.

You realize that?

Giving him, I mean.

If we had given him.

Maybe so.

Well, do you have any other new subjects other than water vapor on the day?

It's just what I gave you this morning.

There's a lot of interest in the economic side.

Henry's doing fine.

He stopped in today and is putting around in China and stuff of that sort.

But there's nothing of major development there.

I see there's interest in the economic phase four thing, which is consuming a lot of interest.

Dollar rebounded well.

on the international money market.

But it's that type of a, there's no dramatic.

That's right.

He gets good regional play, he doesn't get too much national play.

But that's always been true.

Not in any substantial degree.

But if you look around the table there, you can see that they're not really a very schmaltzy group.

Very nice people, though.

Very nice people.

I don't know what Fred Knapp was really saying this morning.

Question for the balance of the week.

For the balance of the week?

After Mitchell.

Well, after Mitchell, there's discussion that they may call more up.

That is not confirmed yet.

Talking to Bazaar yesterday, apparently they now have a date locked in for Ehrlichman and Haldeman, which is about the 23rd to the 26th of July.

So I think they'll have the thing pretty well out of the way by the 1st of August.

But in terms of the balance of the week, it could be Moore, it could be Kambach.

Apparently, they haven't decided that yet.

Well, Kambach will be interesting.

John Connelly pointed out, I saw briefly afterwards, after the cabin meeting, Miss Morris, tell you big things are going.

He said, Watergate's over.

It can't be false and honest.

No.

I have a strong feeling that if I tell the captain to link it up and start grabbing this thing off, if I really think it's a virus, then we can start using the campaign.

And we've got a restable troop.

We'll arrest them after the first September Labor Day campaign begins.

And then it goes on.

We'll have a national campaign between then and next year.

They'll go.

You'll see which side prevails.

That's what I have in mind.

You can't, you can't, you can't pay temple or... Of course, I'll have silence down there at least two weeks, two weeks at least in Europe.

You've got to get it started in August.

You've got to speak to this in August, in a general way.

Oh, sure, sure, sure, sure.

I'll button it in.

Right.

I'm going to have to speak, and then we're going to have to have some other people say what we think.

That's great.

Yes, sir.

We've got a few letters written, a few hands taken, you know, at that time.

In terms of my sustaining in August, there's no way that you're on.

No, I don't think you should.

I can't go rushing around the country right after that, I'm afraid.

No, no, no, no.

No, we've got to, we've got to seal the Watergate thing right after that.

I'll play hard.

Yes, he's putting parts down.

Why don't you say where?

He's, uh, he's generally inclined to feel that, uh... Oh, I'm sorry, I did not ask him where.

I will ask him that.

The forum, the forum.

Thanks for the courage.

He wants to join the session of Congress.

He does?

No.

Would he run you out on that, or...?

What do you think?

I'm going to do something very different.

I guess I'm going to do something very different.

That's my instinct.

I mean, that's my feeling right now.

Depends on how you say it and what you say, of course, which we're not to that point yet.

But I think the first part of the book is almost any, not almost any, but you would get, if we move in generally the direction we talked about,

last night, which I know we have not refined, would get a very good response from that before even an association audience made up of basically middle class.

I mean, there are a number of conventions that are held.

I don't even know the names of them.

I'm not talking American Legion or anything.

But it could be the restaurant operators of America.

Well, another thing you could get.

You could get selective leakers and whack them in the White House.

You could.

Rather than having them .

I don't.

Well.

I just don't like to bring them in the White House.

the general writing with regard to uh kansas city the general overall yes sir with some field trepings

I'm sure the exceptions have been pointed out to you, and the general stuff has not been.

There's a little bit of that dremeled around.

Who is that?

I don't know.

I think Helen Thomas put that in one of her second stories.

Did the press honestly take a clue on it?

No, not really.

I never went to the agency.

I'll give you an honest answer.

I think they felt it was a crowd and it was hot.

They had been there for a while and responded well.

That's how the pictures came out.

That's how the overall impression was.

That's the overall impression.

Why were you worried about her?

Was she trying to kneel in general?

No, she just, you know, just like...

I was sat in the water car and on the way from the airport to the federal building.

She was dictating their bulletin in the lead, which was that the president had arrived in Kansas City, which they always do.

And she was in her garment, sitting there with her lace and smelling the gun.

And she was dictating.

She said, the president had just arrived in Kansas City.

you know, to the federal building to swear in Kelly, who is scheduled to take over the scandal-ridden FBI.

And I said, Helen, I've never raised anything while you're dictating a story.

But I said, just wait a second.

I know you're rushed.

I know you're dictating the lead.

But how can you draw the assumption or make the statement

out of the UR that the FBI is scandal-ridden.

Well, then she went on and dictated friendly crowds along the street and so forth.

But it's amazing, Ms. President, how one person sitting there

But we'll continue to work with her.

Oh, yes, sir.

Yes, sir.

They're beginning to think they're a lot different and they're headed in a different direction.

Also, they're beginning to go to work sensitively.

Comedy sets are going to come up with the same reason that it's over.

They're not going to give you any reason.

What do you say to this?

What are you talking about?

Thank you very much.

Nixon & Ziegler on Watergate and Ervin Committee

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on July 11, 1973

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