Reagan calls after the UN vote on China

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NixonHello?

OperatorGovernor Reagan, Mr. President.

NixonHello?

OperatorHere you are.

NixonHello?

ReaganMr. President.

NixonHope I didn't get you out of bed.

ReaganNo, I'm [laughter] It's 8:00, although I'm still trying to sleep on oriental time and it's not working very well.

Nixon8:15. Yeah, I yeah.

NixonWell, that was a bad vote, wasn't it?

ReaganWell, I want to tell you, we

NixonWe worked our tails off, I must say, I think, uh. 54 to 59. I'm telling you, I just just just finished a meeting with Ted Agnew. He's back from,

ReaganI know. I was just sick.

Nixonuh, and, uh, from, uh, Greece and Turkey and, uh, both of whom we got incidentally. We didn't get Iran, though, damn it. You know you'd figure there's the Shah, we've done all the things for him, but, uh,

ReaganYeah.

Nixonand, uh, these African countries, they're the ones that I I must say were disappointing.

ReaganWell, Mr. President, the reason I called was I know it's uh it is not easy to to give a suggestion or to advise to the President of the United States. But I just feel that I feel so strongly that we can't uh and with in view of '72, we can't just sit and take this and continue

Reaganas if nothing had happened. And I had a suggestion

NixonMhm.

Reaganfor an action that I'd like to be so presumptuous as to to suggest.

ReaganUh, my every instinct says, get the hell out of that [laughter] kangaroo court and let it, uh,

Nixon[laughter] Yeah.

Reagansink. But I know that's very and it would be extremely difficult and not the thing to do. But it has occurred to me that the United States, I just The people,

ReaganI just know are, first of all, they don't like the UN to begin with.

NixonThat's right.

ReaganAnd it seemed to me that if you brought Mr. Bush back uh to Washington to let them sweat for about 24 hours as to what you were thinking of,

Reaganand then if you went on television to the people of the United States and said that Mr. Bush was going back to the UN to participate in debate and discussions to present our views and so forth,

Reaganbut he would not participate in any votes, that the United States would not vote and would not be bound by the votes of the UN because it is a debating society. You don't have to say that, but it is a debating society and, and, um, so we'd be there, our presence would be there, but we would just not participate in their votes. I think it would put those bums in the perspective they belong.

Nixon[snicker] It sure would. [laughter] Yeah.

ReaganUh, I think it would make a hell of a a campaign issue

NixonMhm.

Reaganbecause I am positive that the people of the United States are thoroughly disgusted and I think that this would put any candidate from the other side the constant question would come to him in any such campaign, "What would you do?

ReaganNow?" And if he was stupid enough to open his mouth and say, "Oh, hell, you know, we'd go right back to operating as usual," uh, I think he'd be hung out to dry.

NixonHm. Mhm, mhm, mhm.

NixonWell, we've been trying to think here, uh, uh, about what, uh, reaction to be, the, uh, I must say that the, uh, congressional, uh, act- action may be very interesting. On the, uh, appropriation side,

ReaganWell, Mr. President, then if they did what they've threatened to do, they would simply be confirming your action.

NixonMhm.

ReaganThey'd be making the the the the budget meet that new position of the of the United States in the UN,

NixonMhm.

Reaganreducing our importance. If the other way, if we do nothing, uh, and they take that action, it's a rebuff.

NixonMhm.

NixonYeah.

NixonWell, let me, uh let me give some give some thought to the whole thing. I'm uh it's a tough one, as you're well aware. It's uh, uh we've got some uh we've got some fish to fry on India, Pakistan. We're trying to avoid a war there,

Nixonand uh the UN may have to play some damn role there.

NixonUh the uh Because we don't want to get involved,

ReaganYeah.

Nixonyou see, uh in that miserable place. Uh it's a it's a uh But, uh, we will

Nixonlet me let me give some thought to this whole thing. I've, as as you know, I have been thinking about it and I've talked this morning with, uh, two or three people about it.

NixonUh, what the legal problems are and so forth.

ReaganWell, I I just felt I had to make the suggestion.

NixonI know. I know. I appreciate it.

ReaganLast night in the night after that announcement came on, uh, one commentator called me.

NixonYeah.

ReaganHe told me that the, uh, and I told him, I said, "Well, I just think it confirms the moral bankruptcy of the organization."

Nixon[snicker] Good. [laughter] Good.

ReaganThe UN. And, uh, um, he told me the phone was ringing off the wall. And he said, with people that are just enraged.

NixonHm. Mhm.

ReaganNow, here's the last of the Big Four. Right? Here's as um

ReaganThe old boy, uh, we had a wonderful audience with him while we were there.

NixonYeah. Yeah.

ReaganAn hour and a remarkable man.

NixonYes.

NixonAnd, uh, you must have really enjoyed He's is such an amazing man.

ReaganYes, he is.

NixonHe's darn near How old is he now, 80-?

ReaganHe's in his 80s.

NixonI know. You'd never know it.

ReaganNo, no. Sharp as a tack.

NixonMhm.

ReaganAnd, uh, he and with Madame translating

NixonYou're You're, as you are quite aware, of course, uh, this has no

Nixonnothing to do. This action does not affect at all our defense treaty, and all that.

ReaganNo, I-

NixonI mean, we're- and he knows that.

NixonAnd he also knows what we did. As a matter of fact, I made telephone calls to the- [snicker] [laughter] to uh four capitals on this thing myself.

ReaganYeah.

NixonGot two of them, and two to abstain. I should I should've gotten the other two, but that's about all.

ReaganWell, I would hope that-

Reaganto go along the way, and last night, I tell you, to watch that thing on television as I- as I did-

NixonYeah.

Reaganto see those-

NixonWell, and and then they The tail wags the dog there, doesn't it?

ReaganYeah.

NixonTail wags the dog.

ReaganYeah. And uh, I I please give some thought to this. I think it would be very dramatic, and I think if if the United States just continues business as usual in the UN with this,

NixonMm-hmm.

ReaganI think uh, I I just think our people are going to be uh, terribly disappointed, and I think here's a chance for Uncle Sam to just slap their wrists. We're there,

NixonMm-hmm.

Reaganwe can express our views, debate, but um, it's just not important enough for us to fold on.

NixonMm-hmm.

ReaganAnd naturally, if we do that, we're not bound by the votes.

NixonYeah, I get it. Mm-hmm.

ReaganWell, I I just I [crosstalk] can't help-

NixonYeah.

NixonOh, I I'm I tell you, I I had a uh [snicker] [laughter] it was a hard night here. Hard night here. We were on the phone right up to the last minute.

ReaganYeah.

NixonYeah.

NixonWell, let me uh, let me give some thought to the thing, and I'll I'll keep you posted on the uh, on what our strategy is. You know we can do We're We can do some things that are quite effective in ma- in many areas here. Incidentally, we're cer- We're going to remember every all of our friends that stood with us on this, incidentally, among them among them among whom were the Japanese.

ReaganYes.

NixonThey were great. The Japanese were great.

ReaganThey were great. They were always there, and [crosstalk] that's what I asked the question in Japan. The press, and I and what if this went wrong, and I said, "Well,"- and that was where I first used the expression. I said, "I would consider it uh an act of uh immoral political expediency that a nation--

Nixon"Moral bankruptcy"'s a good term.

ReaganYeah.

NixonYeah. Yeah.

NixonAnd a hell of a precedent, you know. If you can throw out a nation by simple majority, then next they might throw out Portugal, or South Africa.

ReaganYeah.

NixonOr Ghana, who knows?

ReaganThat's why I think they've bitched it.

NixonWell, let me uh let me get at it. And uh, when are you uh when did you get back?

ReaganUh, we got back Saturday morning.

NixonSaturday morning, but you had a good trip.

ReaganOh, yes.

NixonYeah, I got reports on it and and it's an It's a exciting part of the world, huh?

ReaganYes.

NixonYeah.

NixonGet Vietnam and everything.

ReaganYeah.

NixonAnd it's going well there, isn't it?

ReaganIt seemed to be, yes.

NixonCasualties this week were six, so that we've got we've got it wound down.

ReaganYeah.

ReaganWell, well, I should leave you to your troubles. I know the press is going to wait for me. I'm going to uh I know I'll have to answer and I'm going to continue along the same tone that as far as I'm concerned this uh, is-

NixonWell, you might indicate that the, for example, that you you feel that this uh, greatly weakens the the uh, support for the United Nations in the United States, that uh, that it'll that the uh, that uh, it'll have repercussions in the Congress, and uh, and uh, you know, that sort of thing is uh, will will will uh, reverberate around.

ReaganYeah. As a matter of fact, I Before I left, I I don't know what the hell is United Nations Week or when it is. I signed that proclamation, UN Week, and I'm going to go over and if it still isn't over, if it's if we haven't had it yet-

NixonRevoke it?

ReaganI'm going to withdraw the proclamation.

Nixon[laughter] Yeah. I bet you I don't know whether I probably signed it, too, but I didn't go to anything, I can assure you.

ReaganOh, I didn't either.

NixonOh, they're all sorts of dinners, you know.

ReaganYeah, oh, out here, Warren made a speech at one, the other night.

NixonYeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

ReaganHe was up, craft the old [unintelligible].

NixonYeah. Yo, incidentally, I wan- I think you should know on another subject, that we've got two terrific nominees for the Supreme Court. They're tough, strong, conservative, and they are just squealing like hell. It's uh, well, you know, we as you know, we we were we ran uh Mildred Lillie by you, and [snicker] [laughter]

Nixonand we have in mind uh Smith for another one, but uh these two you can bank on. Our our liberal friends uh Powell of Virginia is just a great fellow, and Rehnquist is probably the he is probably as strong a young guy- Well, he's not too damn young, he's 47, but, probably'll be the strongest man on the Court.

ReaganI, my heart rested of course on Dan Smith. I Yeah. I'm telling you, he's a he's a hell of a guy.

NixonWell, let me say, uh he's at the right age, and uh he is right up there on the on on on consideration. Our problem was that we had to take one southerner, it was Powell, and I couldn't take two corporation lawyers. You s- You see the problem? He's a corporation lawyer, and the other is. But uh, but Smith, you know, he's got a terrific record. Chairman of the Board of Regents, and so forth, and as Mitchell will tell you, he was uh he was

Nixon[sigh] right in it. And uh, one of those other guys uh, what the heck, they can't live forever.

Reagan[laughter] No.

NixonWho knows? Let's hope the good guys live longer.

ReaganYes.

NixonWell, give my best to Nancy, and uh I'll uh I'll uh I'll be back in touch with you about this. All right.

ReaganOkay.

Reagan calls after the UN vote on China

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on October 26, 1971

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Reagan calls after the UN vote on China

AI Summary

Audio

Transcript (AI-generated)

NARA Description

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on October 26, 1971

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Cite this conversation