Conversation: 487-022
Prev: 487-021 Next: 487-023Start Date: 23-Apr-1971 3:36 PM
End Date: 23-Apr-1971 4:56 PM
Participants:
Nixon, Richard M. (President); Ehrlichman, John D.; [Unknown person(s)]; Bull, Stephen B.; Volpe, John A.; Sanchez, Manolo; White House photographer; Romney, George W.; Ziegler, Ronald L.; Kissinger, Henry A.;Recording Device: Oval Office
Full Tape Conversation Start Time: 04:26:33
Full Tape Conversation End Time: 05:47:18
NARA Description:
On April 23, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, John D. Ehrlichman, unknown person(s), Stephen B. Bull, John A. Volpe, Manolo Sanchez, White House photographer, George W. Romney, Ronald L. Ziegler, and Henry A. Kissinger met in the Oval Office of the White House from 3:36 pm to 4:56 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 487-022 of the White House Tapes.
Nixon Library Finding Aid:
Conversation No. 487-22
Date: April 23, 1971
Time: 3:36 pm - 4:56 pm
Location: Oval Office
The President met with John D. Ehrlichman.
President's schedule
-Meeting
Briefing paper
-George W. Romney
-Leonard Garment
-Department of Housing and Urban Development [HUD]
-Suburban integration
-Ehrlichman's draft proposal
-Possible administration position
-HUD's possible position
-Lawsuit
President's schedule
-Meeting
-John A. Volpe
-Helicopter
Romney entered at 3:37 pm.
Schools
-Problems
-President's message
-Administration policy
73
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
-Diversity
-Freedom of choice
-Integrated areas
-Economics
Housing integration
-HUD
-Position paper Conv. No. 487-22 (cont.)
-President's position
-John N. Mitchell
-Blackjack case
-HUD
-Position paper
-Timing
-Issue
-Importance
-Garment
-Memorandum for President
-Discussion of alternatives
-Romney's possible meeting with Mitchell
-HUD proposal
-Possible administration discussions
-Mitchell
-Possible alternative proposals
-Meeting
-Mitchell, Romney, Garment, and Ehrlichman
-Romney’s view
-Black caucus response
-Civil Rights Commission
-Focus
-Suburbs
-HUD's activities
-Samuel C. Jackson
An unknown man entered at an unknown time after 3:37 pm.
Refreshments
The unknown man left at an unknown time before 4:14 pm.
74
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
Housing
-Civil Rights Commission activities
-Suburbs
-Problem
-Small towns
-Rural areas
-President's position
-Administration paper Conv. No. 487-22 (cont.)
-School integration
-Supreme Court
-HUD proposal
-Garment's memorandum
-Review of law
-Romney
-Mitchell
-President's meeting with Mitchell, April 22, 1971
-HUD's proposed message
-President's schedule
-Trip to California
-Romney and Ehrlichman
-Possible visits to housing projects
-Production
-Subsidies
-Prospects
-Outlook
-Administration policies
-Romney’s assessment
Economy
-Prime rate
-Chase National Bank
-John B. Connally
-Money demand
-Savings and loans
Housing
-Outlook
-Production
-Level
-1972
-Administration's position
-Effect on economy
75
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
-National goal
-Economy
-Subsidized production
-1972 budget
-Amendment
-HUD
-Additional employees
-HUD appropriations Conv. No. 487-22 (cont.)
-Fees
-Authorization
-Lumber
-Lumber committee
-Robert P. Mayo
-Council of Economic Advisors [CEA]
-Hendrik S. Houthakker
-Prices
-Effect on production
-Forest Service
-Logging
-Environmentalists
-Tree cutting
-Russell E. Train
-Logging
-Congress
-William Proxmire
-Gaylord Nelson
-Goal
-Number
-Housing committee
-Details
-George P. Shultz
-[Forename unknown] Jones
-Rogers C.B. Morton
-Train
-Activities
-Lumber
-Pricing
-Scope
-Program
-HUD
-House Agriculture committee
-Houthakker’s committee
76
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
-Economic policy committee
-Lumber
-Economic policy committee
-Morton's and Train's possible participation
-Lumber
-Environmentalists
-President's schedule
-Meeting with Volpe Conv. No. 487-22 (cont.)
-Airbags
Airbags
-Value
-Ralph Nader
-Testing
-The President’s view
-Ford Company
-Statements
-Technical development
-Difficulties
-Automobile costs
-Seat belts
-Sales
-The President’s concern
-Safety issue
Environment
-Purity
-Trees
-Cutting
-Romney's possible conversation with Mark O. Hatfield
-Henry M. (“Scoop”) Jackson and Warren G. (“Maggie”) Magnuson
-Liberal Senators
-Environmentalists
-Forest Service
-Funds
-Production
-National forests
-Federal lands
-Ownership
-Issue
Revenue sharing
77
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
Race relations
-Jackson's suggestion
-President's possible participation at a minority conference
-Urban League
-Baptists
-League of Baptist Churches
-Minority community
-Whitney M. Young, Jr.’s death Conv. No. 487-22 (cont.)
Revenue sharing
-President's meeting with Republican Congressmen, April 22, 1971
-Daniel H. Kuykendall
-Peter H.B. Frelinghuysen
-New Jersey legislature and mayors
-President's previous meeting with George C. Siebels, Jr.
-Alabama
-Support
-Mayors
-Governors
-County officials
-Congress
-Hearings
-Connally
-Clifford M. Hardin
-Romney
-Hubert H. Humphrey
-Views
-Conversation with Romney and Connally
-Significance
-Rural
-Overlap
-Urban and rural
-Rural areas
-HUD funds
-Republican concerns
-Humphrey
-Problems
-Agriculture
-Administration's possible position
78
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
Government reorganization
-Departments
-Department of Agriculture
-Potential problem
-Possible solution
-HUD
-Commerce and Labor Department
-Labor union’s views Conv. No. 487-22 (cont.)
-Businessmen’s view
-Department of Natural resources
-Department of Health, Education, and Welfare
-Human resources
-President's conversations with Congressmen and Senators
-Department of Agriculture
-Department of Agriculture
-Connally's view
-Opposition
-Revenue sharing
Revenue sharing and government reorganization
-HUD budget
-Congress
-Hearings
-Hearings
-Possible administration strategy
-HUD
-Organization
-Hearings
-Romney's conversation with Charles H. Percy
-Community development department
-John L. McClellan
-Possible role
-Relations with Percy
-Romney's possible conversation with McClellan
-The President’s instructions
-Possible administration initiatives
-Percy
-McClellan’s input in legislation
-Administration bill
-William B. Widnall
-Introduction
-Water and sewage
79
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
Romney
-Health
National Center for Voluntary Action
-Robert N. Finch’s role
-Romney's schedule
-Edwin D. Etherington, Jr. [?]
-Upcoming executive committee meeting Conv. No. 487-22 (cont.)
-Romney's conversation with Etherington [?]
-President's possible position
-President's schedule, April 27, 1971
-Meeting with group
-W. Clement Stone
-Max M. Fisher
-Henry Ford II's note to the President
-Ford’s support
-Prospects
-Etherington
-Performance
-President's schedule, April 27, 1971
-Reception
Collective Bargaining Commission
-Wages and prices
-Romney's role
-Status
-Discussions
-Executive Order
-Prices
-Stabilization
-Romney's role
-James D. Hodgson
-Construction
-Romney
-Administration's position
Revenue sharing
-Romney's activities
-Edward L. Morgan’s role
-Romney's activities
-Public relations
-Governors
80
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
-Sumner G. Whittier
-Romney's role
-Administration strategy
-Romney’s role
-Public relations
-Women in government
-Morgan’s role
-Scheduling Conv. No. 487-22 (cont.)
-Romney
-Administration spokesman
-Scheduling
-Campaign manager
-Analogy
-Reorganization
-Prospects
-Shultz's conversation with Wilbur D. Mills
-Progress
-Democrats
-Strategy session
-James Tate
-Views
-Tate
-Mayors
-Elie Low (?)
-Tate
-Political aspirations
-President's possible conversation with Tate
Housing
-New York City
-John V. Lindsay's letter to Romney
-Nelson A. Rockefeller's activities
-Bond revenues
-Public corporation
-Brooklyn Navy Yard
-Rockefeller and Lindsay
-President's possible conversation with Rockefeller
-New York state
-HUD allotments
-Rockefeller
-Rockefeller compared with Lindsay
-Administration programs
81
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
-Romney's possible conversation with Rockefeller
-Focus
-HUD projects
-San Clemente
-Laguna Hills
-Mission Viejo
-Yorba Linda
-Cost problem Conv. No. 487-22 (cont.)
-HUD initiatives
-Housing market
-Producers
-Volume
-Benefits
-Local building regulations
-State inspection programs
-Connecticut
-Numbers
-Legislation
-HUD activities
-Selection of housing systems
-"Operation Breakthrough"
-Companies
-Westinghouse
-Blakeslee
-Connecticut
-Pre-stressed concrete
-Market increases
-Romney's visit to Connecticut
-Dedication of plant
-Blakeslee and Westinghouse
-Pre-fabricated construction
-Westinghouse
-Fredericksburg, Virginia
-Production
-Activities
-Standardization
-Levitt
-Activities
-Factory production
-Production plant
-Michigan
-Battle Creek and Kalamazoo
82
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
-Mid-West market
-Housing market
-Possible administration policy
-Benefits
-President's schedule
-San Clemente
-Possible visit to Michigan
-Dedication of Levitt plant Conv. No. 487-22 (cont.)
-Ceremony
-Romney's schedule, May 17, 1971
-Michigan trip
-Dedication of Levitt plant
-President's schedule
-Possible visit to Michigan
-Dedication of Levitt plant
-President's position
-Benefits
[Transcript #1: A transcript of the following portion of this conversation was prepared under
court order from December 1978 through March 1979 for Special Access 8, Ronald V. Dellums,
et al. v. James M. Powell, et al., No. 71-2271. The National Archives and Records
Administration produced this transcript. The National Archives does not guarantee its accuracy.]
[End of transcript]
President's schedule
-Possible visit to Michigan
-Timing
Romney's schedule
-Vacation plans
-Fritz Carlson
-American Bar Association
-London meeting
-July 1971
-Vacation plans
-Spain
-Mediterranean
-London
-International Association of University Presidents
-Letter to Romney
-Liberia
83
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
-Monrovia
-June 15-17, 1971
-President's position
-Housing problems
-President's position
-Africa
-Congo
-Nigeria Conv. No. 487-22 (cont.)
-Liberia
-Trip
-Advantages
-Length of stay
-Timing
-Hearings
-Lenore L. Romney
Stephen B. Bull entered and Romney left at 4:14 pm.
Unknown specification
President's schedule
-Meeting
-Helicopter trip to Virginia Beach
Bull left at 4:14 pm.
The President talked with an unknown man at 4:16 pm.
[Conversation No. 487-22A ]
Unknown activity
[End of telephone conversation]
Manolo Sanchez entered at 4:14 pm.
Instructions
Volpe entered at 4:14 pm; the White House photographer was present of the beginning of the
meeting
84
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
Refreshment
-Romney
-Coca-Cola
Photo
-Seating
Sanchez left at an unknown time before 4:44 pm. Conv. No. 487-22 (cont.)
Volpe's upcoming European trip
-Prospects
-Itinerary
-Yugoslavia
-France
-Volpe’s meeting with French Minister
-Yugoslavia
-US and Yugoslav economic relations
-Exchanges
-Italy
-President’s view
-Possible visit by Volpe
-US relations
-Political situation
-Possible visit by Volpe
-Spain
-Yugoslavia
-Italy
-Scheduling
-Political situation
-Parties
-Emilio Colombo
-Mariano Rumor
-Role
-Christian Democrats
-Colombo
-Volpe's possible activities
-Elections
-Presidency
-Amintore Fanfani
-Aldo Moro
-Prospects
85
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
Sanchez entered at an unknown time after 4:14 pm.
Refreshment
Sanchez left at an unknown time before 4:44 pm.
Volpe's upcoming Europe Trip
-Italy Conv. No. 487-22 (cont.)
-Political situation
-Senate
-Fanfani
-Moro
-Scheduling
President
-Duties
Cabinet officers
-Salaries
-Difficulties of jobs
-Volpe’s health
-Romney’s health
-Volpe’s health
-Health
-Stress
-Book
-Arnold [Unintelligible surname]
-The Will To Live
Volpe
-Appearance
-Supersonic Transport [SST]
SST
-Transportation
-Jobs
-President's position
-Exploration of unknown
-Congress
86
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
Congress
-Volpe's schedule
-Massachusetts Port Authority
-Reception
-Massachusetts Congressional delegation
-Volpe's conversation with Edward M. Kennedy
-SST
-March 24, 1971 Conv. No. 487-22 (cont.)
-Significance
SST
-Kennedy's role
-Ehrlichman's views
-Prospects
-[Forename unknown] Hirchuck
-Phil Brown
-Contributions to Volpe
-Justin W. Dart’s suggestion
-United Airlines
-Views
-Raising of capital
-Companies
-Interest
-James L. Buckley
-Volpe's initiatives
-Fairchild Industries
-Unknown man
-Proposals
-Focal point
-Chase Manhattan Bank
-Possible raising of capital
-Congress
-Garment
Vietnam
-President's speech, April 7, 1971
-Jennie (Benedetto) Volpe
-Reaction
-Volpe's daughter
-Reaction
-President's story at end of speech
87
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
[Transcript #2: A transcript of the following portion of this conversation was prepared under
court order from December 1978 through March 1979 for Special Access 8, Ronald V. Dellums,
et al. v. James M. Powell, et al., No. 71-2271. The National Archives and Records
Administration produced this transcript. The National Archives does not guarantee its accuracy.]
[End of transcript]
Economy Conv. No. 487-22 (cont.)
-Airlines
-Prospects
-April 1971
-Growth
-Passenger miles
-Outlook
-View of 1971
-Golf clubs
-Sales
-Boats
-Sales
-Airline traffic
-Businessmen
-Travel
-Lawyers
-Stock market
-Rise
-Personal participation
-Prohibitions
-Possible profits
-Taxable income
-Spending money
***********************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 5
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 24s ]
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 5
**********************************************************************
88
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
Volpe
-Support for President
-Role within administration
-Schedule
-Dinner with President
-Mrs. Volpe
-Use of Camp David Conv. No. 487-22 (cont.)
-Mrs. Volpe
-Cabin
-Dogwood
Amtrak
-Hearings
-Railroad passenger service
-Democrats
-Administration position
-April 30, 1971
-Beginning of service
-President's schedule, April 30, 1971
-Union Station
-Ceremony
-First Marine Division
-California
-Timing
-Union Station
-Scheduling
-First Marine Division
-Union Station
-Subsidy bill
-Directorship
-Roger Lewis
-General Dynamics
-Qualifications
-President's schedule, April 30, 1971
-Union Station
-Ceremony
-Re-conditioned cars
-Significance
89
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
Volpe
-Role
-Cabinet officer
-Relations with White House
-Cabinet officer
-Role
Government reorganization Conv. No. 487-22 (cont.)
-Volpe's previous speech in Cabinet meeting
-Volpe’s role
-Input
-Governors, mayors
-Cabinet officers
-Consultation
-Transportation Department
-Volpe’s view
-Cabinet officers
-Efforts on behalf of administration
-Consultation
-Transportation Department
-Natural Resources Department
-Announcement
-Upcoming Cabinet meeting, April 27, 1971
-Breeder reactor
-Agenda
-Unemployment
-Jobs
Decision-making process
-Cabinet
-Need for input
-Government reorganization
-Announcement
Cabinet officers
-Role
-Difficulties
-Schedules
-Romney's previous meeting with the President
-Problems
-President's previous meeting with Mitchell
-Housing
90
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
-Nature of problems
-Possible contributions
-Participation
-Government reorganization
-Revenue sharing
-Family assistance
-Domestic Council
Conv. No. 487-22 (cont.)
Government reorganization
-Secretary of Transportation
-Secretary of Commerce
-Secretary of Labor
-Consolidation
-Proposal
-Administrators
-Other nations
-Appelation
-Appelation of top men
-Ministers
-Foreign affairs
-Defense
-Secretaries
-Defense
-Minister
-Secretaries
-Army
-Navy
-Air Force
-Names
-Secretaries
-Compensation level
-Future top officials
-Grades of top officials
-Super secretaries
-Ministers
-Executive level A
-Salaries
-Ministers
-Cabinet
-Secretaries
-Titles of officials
-Present proposals
91
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
-Secretary of Transportation
-Salaries of top officials
-Adjustment to realities
-Department of Agriculture
Revenue sharing
-Proposals
-Problems Conv. No. 487-22 (cont.)
-John W. Dean, III
-Trust fund
-Taxes
-Airports
-Airport funds
-Uses
-Mass transit
-Highways
-Subsidies
-Highways
-Airport users
Bull entered at an unknown time after 4:14 pm.
President's schedule
-Meeting with Henry A. Kissinger
Bull left at an unknown time before 4:54 pm.
Volpe's upcoming European trip
-Italy
-Political leaders
-The Vatican
-Pope Paul VI
-Communism
-Latin America
-Advisors
-Volpe's possible conversation with Pope Paul
-Church
-President's possible initiatives
-William P. Rogers' schedule
-Visit to Middle East
-Pope Paul
-Pope Paul
92
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
Catholic Church
-Latin America
-Compared with US Protestant Church
-Operations
-Priests
-Activities
-Social reform
-President's position Conv. No. 487-22 (cont.)
-Priests
-President’s position
-Liberals
-Dangers
-Problems
-Pope Paul's position
-Religious mission
-Social problems
-Communism
Volpe's upcoming European trip
-Yugoslavia
-Communism
-Churches
-Previous visit to Soviet Union
-Romania
-Poland
-Catholic Church
-Wladyslawr Gomulka
-[Unintelligible Name]
Government reorganization
-Civil Service
-Prospects
-Importance
-Support for administration
-Administration policy
-Top levels
-President's schedule
-Civil Service Commissioner
-Swearing-in ceremony
93
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
Volpe's schedule
-Weekly meetings with Assistant Secretaries
-Composition
-Federal Highway administrator
-Urban Mass Transportation administrator
-Federal Aviation administrator
-Mid-level managers
-Length of meetings Conv. No. 487-22 (cont.)
President's schedule
-Possible quarterly meeting with Cabinet officials and subordinates
-Possible procedure
-Benefits
-Transportation Department
-Numbers
-Assistant Secretaries, administrators
-Structure
-Benefits
-Assistant Secretaries, administrators
-Meetings with departmental officials
-Transportation Department
-Possible meetings with Cabinet officials and subordinates
-Numbers
-Administrative officials
-Backgrounds
-1972 campaign
-Talent
-Support for the President
-Possible administration representatives
-Assistant Secretaries
-Volpe's activities
-Possible meetings with Cabinet officials and subordinates
-Location
-Cabinet Room
-Frequency
-Duration
-Advantages
-Meetings with department officials
-State Department
-Frequency
-Defense Department
-Assistant secretaries
94
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
-Justice Department
-Treasury Department
-HUD
-Transportation Department
-Commerce Department
-Interior Department
-Labor Department
-Interior Department Conv. No. 487-22 (cont.)
-Agriculture Department
-Areas of operations
-Independence
-Transportation Department
-Volpe's schedule
-John E. Hirten
President's schedule
-Sunday worship services
-Attendance
-Hirten
-[Unintelligible] commission
-[Forename unknown] Keapley
-Men
-Sub-Cabinet officials
-Commerce
Volpe's meeting with [unintelligible] man
-Date of meeting
-Louisiana
-Loyalty
[Unintelligible] activity
-Volpe's possible initiatives
Ronald L. Ziegler entered and Volpe and the President left at 4:54 pm.
President's schedule
-Previous meeting with Romney
-Discussions
Ehrlichman left and Henry A. Kissinger and Stephen Bull entered at 4:55 pm.
95
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF
Tape Subject Log
(rev. 9/08)
President's schedule
-Conference
Bull left and the President entered at 4:55 pm.
-Helicopter trip to Virginia Beach
-Camp David
-Press Conv. No. 487-22 (cont.)
-Dinner with David and Julie Eisenhower
-Press coverage
The President, Ziegler and Kissinger left at 4:56 pm.