Conversation: 817-004
Prev: 817-003 Next: 817-005Start Date: 30-Nov-1972 9:17 AM
End Date: 30-Nov-1972 10:13 AM
Participants:
Nixon, Richard M. (President); Ziegler, Ronald L.; Haldeman, H. R. ("Bob"); Kissinger, Henry A.; Bull, Stephen B.;Recording Device: Oval Office
NARA Description:
On November 30, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, Ronald L. Ziegler, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, Henry A. Kissinger, and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House from 9:17 am to 10:13 am. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 817-004 of the White House Tapes.
Nixon Library Finding Aid:
Conversation No. 817-4
Date: November 30, 1972
Time: 9:17 am - 10:13 am
Location: Oval Office
The President met with Ronald L. Ziegler.
The President’s schedule
Second term reorganization
-James D. Hogson
-Possible foreign assignment
-Paris
-Recent meeting with Ziegler
-Hodgson’s recent meeting with the President
-Marcia (Denend) Hodgson
-Announcement
-Press relations
-Press relations
H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman entered at 9:25 a.m.
-Plans
-Private life
-Leak
-Labor Department
-Geneva [European Economic Community]
[EEC]
-Washington Post story
-New York Times story
-Lack of interest
Tax reform
Press story leak
-Source
-John D. Ehrlichman
-George P. Shultz
-16-
16
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. Apr.-08)
Conversation No. 817-4 (cont’d)
-Possible conversation with Charles E. Walker
-Authorization
-Congressional relations
-Wilbur D. Mills
-Source
-Ziegler’s forthcoming conversations with Ehrlichman and Shultz
-Veracity
-Congressional relations
-Mills
-Source
-Ehrlichman
-Shultz
-Washington, DC
Second term reorganization
-State Department
-William P. Rogers
-John N. (“Jack”) Irwin, II
-Ambassadorship
-Rogers
-Possible retirement
-U. Alexis Johnson
-Retention
-Retirement
-Timing
-Retention
-Reassignment
-Ziegler's forthcoming announcement
-Johnson’s background
-Foreign Service Officer [FSO]
-The President’s view
-Retirement
-Shake-up
-Ziegler's forthcoming announcement
-Ziegler’s forthcoming announcement
-William J. Casey appointment [Under Secretary for Economic
Affairs]
-Review of positions
-Ambassadorships, senior positions
-Retentions
-17-
17
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. Apr.-08)
Conversation No. 817-4 (cont’d)
-Reassignments
-Bureaucracy
-FSOs
-Roger’s suggestion
-The President's reorganization policies
-Senior positions
-New personnel
-Young personnel
-Promotions
-Reassignment
-Young personnel
-Promotions
-The President’s policy
-Compared to the Secretary’s
-FSOs
-Opportunities
-Departures
-Need to attract able people
-Rogers
-Routine work
-Stenographers, file clerks,
escort officers for very
important person’s [VIPs]
-Senior positions
-Reassignments
-Rogers
-Other Departments
-Senior positions
-Reassignments
-FSOs
-Reassignments
-Reason
-Spokespeople for
foreign countries
-The President’s view
-The President’s travel as a
Congressman
-Appropriations
-Need for shake-up
-Compared to other agencies
-18-
18
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. Apr.-08)
Conversation No. 817-4 (cont’d)
-Justice Department
-Paperwork
-Ziegler’s quoting the President
-Rogers
-Retention
-Continuity in foreign policy
-The President’s Camp David statement
-Personal praise
-Continuity in foreign policy
-Negotiations
-Middle East, Far East
-European Security Conference
-Rogers’ abilities
-Far East, European Security
Conference
-Vietnam
-Far East
-Middle East, European Security
Conference
-Personal praise
-Personal praise
-Departures
-[David] Kenneth Rush, Casey
-Retentions compared to departures
-Rogers C. B. Morton
-George W. Romney
-Richard G. Kleindienst
-Casey
-State Department
-State Department
-Casey
-State Department
-Importance of appointment
-State Department
-Foreign policy
-Economic affairs
-Common Market (EEC)
-Japan
-Soviet Union
-People's Republic of China [PRC]
-19-
19
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. Apr.-08)
Conversation No. 817-4 (cont’d)
-State Department
Henry A. Kissinger entered at 9:36 am.
Second term reorganization
-Casey
-Meeting with Kissinger
-Role in State Department
-Economic affairs
Budget meeting
-Announcement
-The President’s schedule
-Meeting with Joint Chiefs of Staff [JCS]
Second term reorganization
Peter J. Brennan
-Public appearance
-Response
-Jacob K. Javits
-Nelson A. Rockefeller
-William F. Buckley, Jr.
-Statement
-Hard hats
-Hard hats
-The President’s quote
-Statement about the President at American Federation of Labor-Congress
of Industrial Organizations [AFL-CIO] meeting
-Defense of the President
Public relations [PR]
-Defense of the President
-Democrats
-Brennan
-John B. Connally
-Daniel (“Pat”) Moynihan
-Emotion
-Democratic Presidents compared to Republican Presidents
-Republicans
-Press relations
-20-
20
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. Apr.-08)
Conversation No. 817-4 (cont’d)
-Brennan
-Public appearance
-Hard hats
Second term reorganization
-John A. Volpe
-Ambassadorship to Italy
-Announcement
-Timing
-Importance of position
-Ehrlichman’s forthcoming conversation
with Volpe
-Graham A. Martin
-Director General of Foreign Service
-William B. Macomber, Jr.
-Ambassadorship
-Macomber
-Present job
-Deputy Under Secretary of State for Management
The President’s schedule
-Meeting with JCs
-Announcement
Ziegler left at 9:41 am.
Second term reorganization
-Martin
-Loyalty
-View of young personnel
-Conflicts with FSO
-Possible work with Casey
-Macomber
-Haldeman’s conversation with Casey
-Replacement
-Casey
The President’s schedule
-Meeting with Nguyen Phu Duc
-21-
21
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. Apr.-08)
Conversation No. 817-4 (cont’d)
Vietnam negotiations
-Recent talks with North Vietnamese
-State Department leak
-Effect
-Source
-Unknown person
-Recent North Vietnamese leak
-Kissinger’s reaction
-William Beecher’s article [in New York Times]
-Defense Department
-The President’s instruction to Haldeman
-State and Defense Departments
-The President’s request for a report
-Timing
-Meeting with JCS
-Beecher
-Contact with White House
-William H. Sullivan
-National Security [NSC]
-The President’s meeting with Duc
-Changes in settlement agreement
-Kissinger’s meetings with Duc
-Paris
-The President’s meeting with Duc
-Tone
-Kissinger’s meetings with North Vietnamese
-Demilitarized Zone [DMZ]
-Neutrality of Laos and Cambodia
-Timing
-Meeting with JCS
-Duration
-The President’s trip to Florida
The President's schedule
-Meeting with JCS
-Kissinger’s paper
-Meetings with JCS chairman, service secretaries
-Adm. Thomas H. Moorer
-Timing
-Melvin R. Laird’s departure
-22-
22
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. Apr.-08)
Conversation No. 817-4 (cont’d)
-The President’s conversations with Elliot L. Richardson and William P.
Clements, Jr
-Laird
-Meeting with JCS
-Laird’s presence
-Clements
-Vietnam
Meeting with JCS
-Vietnam negotiations
-Debriefing of staffs
-Possible leaks
-Settlement agreement
-Kissinger’s summary
-Advocacy
-Gen. William C. Westermorland
Vietnam negotiations
-National League of Families of American Prisoners letters
-Vice President Spiro T. Agnew
-Rose Mary Woods
-Prisoners of War [POW] Wives
-Removal of North Vietnamese troops from South Vietnam
-Removal of North Vietnamese troops from South Vietnam
-Kissinger’s conversation with Agnew
-Settlement agreement
-US bombing
-Duration
-PRC
-Settlement agreement
-Resumption of US bombing
-Congressional approval
-Necessity
-The President’s meeting with Duc
-Treaty violations
-Possible public statement
-Appropriations
-Likelihood
-The President’s commitment
-North Vietnamese invasion
-23-
23
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. Apr.-08)
Conversation No. 817-4 (cont’d)
-Bluff
-North Vietnamese response
-Public approval
-Congressional approval
-First North Vietnamese violations
-US response
-Bombing
-Scale
-PR
-JCS meeting
-Plans for post-agreement North Vietnamese violations
-Plans for agreement collapse
-Resumption of US bombing
-Kissinger’s meeting with Duc
-South Vietnamese cables
-[Nguyen Van Thieu’s] letter to the President
-Kissinger’s meeting in Paris
-The President’s possible meeting with Thieu
-The President’s meeting with Duc
-Kissinger’s exploration
-Delay by South Vietnamese
-Kissinger’s schedule
-Saigon, Hanoi
-Timing
-Signing
-Kissinger’s trip to Hanoi
-Reasons
-Thieu
-Post-war situation
-Kissinger’s conversation with Duc
-Condition
-Changes
-Location
-Guam
-Saigon
-Guam
-Midway
-Timing
-Christmas, New Year’s Day
-Location
-24-
24
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. Apr.-08)
Conversation No. 817-4 (cont’d)
-Midway
-Timing
-Kissinger’s schedule
-Condition
-Kissinger’s conversation with Duc
-Timing
-Understanding
-Changes
-Thieu’s meeting with other Asian leaders
-Thailand, Philippines, South Korea
-The President’s meeting with Asian leaders
-Location
-San Clemente
-Location
-Midway
-Compared to Guam
-Symbolism
-The President’s meeting with Thieu
-The President’s meeting with Asian leaders
-Park Chung Hee
-Ferdinand Marcos
-Timing
-Post-signing
-1973 Inauguration
-January 5, 1973
-Location
-US
-San Clemente
-Symbolism
Meeting with JCS
-Timing
-Alexander Haig, Jr.
Kissinger left at 9:57 am.
Tax reform
-Press story leak
-State Department leak
-Source
-25-
25
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. Apr.-08)
Conversation No. 817-4 (cont’d)
-Camp David
-Source
-Ehrlichman
-Shultz
-Instruction for Haldeman
-Ziegler
-Ehrlichman
-Treasury Department
-Ehrlichman
-Staff
-Leaks
-Effect on negotiations
The President’s schedule
-Helene (Colesie) Drown and Jack Drown
-The President’s conversation with Thelma C. (“Pat”) Nixon
-Blair House reception honoring administration officials from California
-Robert H. Finch
-Possible invitation to Blue Room
-Timing
-Pre-dinner
-The President’s trip to Camp David
-Pre-dinner cocktail party
-The President’s trip to Camp David
-Attendance
-Number
-Haldeman’s conversation with Finch
-Attire
-Black tie
-Camp David
-Transportation
-Helicopter
-Attire
-The President’s November 24, 1972 letter to Finch
-Tone
-Haldeman’s effort
*****************************************************************
[Begin segment reviewed under deed of gift]
-26-
26
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. Apr.-08)
Conversation No. 817-4 (cont’d)
-Jack Drown
-Camp David
-Meetings
-Mrs. Nixon
-Helene Drown
[End segment reviewed under deed of gift]
*****************************************************************
Second term reorganization
-Herbert G. Klein
-Departure
-Woods
-Mrs. Nixon
-Staff
-Klein
-Departure
-Announcement
-Compared to Charles W. Colson
-Conversation with Haldeman
-Statement
-Statement
-Reassignment
-Private life
-Retention
-1973 Inauguration
-Future plans
-Announcement
-Colson
Watergate
-Gabriel Hauge’s letter to the President
-Reply
-The President’s recent conversation with Woods
-Others letters to Woods
-Tone
-Replies
-27-
27
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. Apr.-08)
Conversation No. 817-4 (cont’d)
The President's schedule
-Cocktail party
-Blue Room
-The President's attendance
-Duration
Finch
-Campaign
-Finances
Second term reorganization
-Donald H. Rumsfeld
-Geneva [EEC]
-[North Atlantic Treaty Organization ambassadorship]
-Timing
-International Labor Organizations [ILO]
-World Health Organization [WHO]
-Advantages of job
-Transfer
-Prestige
-Alternative
-Problem
-Changes
-Peter G. Peterson
-Job offer [The President’s Special Representative]
-Acceptance
-Deadline
-Shultz
-Kissinger
-Rumsfeld
Stephen B. Bull entered at an unknown time after 9:57 am.
The President's schedule
-Meeting with JCS
-Location
-Cabinet Room
-Number
-Location
-Oval Office
-28-
28
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. Apr.-08)
Conversation No. 817-4 (cont’d)
-Timing
-The President’s telephone call
Bull left at an unknown time before 10:13 am.
*****************************************************************
[Begin segment reviewed under deed of gift]
Republican National Committee [RNC] Chairman
-Robert J. Dole
-Washington Post story
-Source
-Photograph
-Meeting with the President
-Departure
-Meeting with Haldeman
-Replacement by George H. W. Bush
-Meeting with John Mitchell
-Meeting with Bush
-Handling
-Kansas
-Senate election
-Meeting with Bush
-United Nations [UN]
-Middle East
-John A. Scali appointment
-Panama
-Departure
-Timing
-Meeting with Mitchell
-Washington Post
Reaction to appointment
-Automobile
-Apartment
-Rent
-Dole
-Meeting with Mitchell
-Campaign financing
-European trip
-29-
29
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. Apr.-08)
Conversation No. 817-4 (cont’d)
-Chairmanship
-Bush
-Automobile
-Peter G. Peterson
-Bush
-Willingness
-Agreement with Dole
-Replacement
-Timing
[End withdrawal reviewed under deed of gift]
*****************************************************************
Haldeman left at 10:13 am.