Conversation: 817-016
Prev: 817-015 Next: 817-017Start Date: 30-Nov-1972 12:17 PM
End Date: 30-Nov-1972 1:11 PM
Participants:
Nixon, Richard M. (President); Haldeman, H. R. ("Bob"); Kissinger, Henry A.; Duc, Nguyen Phu; Phuong, Tran Kim; Haig, Alexander M., Jr.; Bull, Stephen B.; White House photographer; [Unknown person(s)];Recording Device: Oval Office
NARA Description:
On November 30, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, Henry A. Kissinger, Nguyen Phu Duc, Tran Kim Phuong, Alexander M. Haig, Jr., Stephen B. Bull, White House photographer, and unknown person(s) met in the Oval Office of the White House from 12:17 pm to 1:11 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 817-016 of the White House Tapes.
Nixon Library Finding Aid:
Conversation No. 817-16
Date: November 30, 1972
Time: 12:17 pm -1:11 pm
Location: Oval Office
The President met with H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman
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[Begin segment reviewed under deed of gift]
Republican National Committee [RNC] Chairman
-George H. W. Bush
-Conversation with Robert J. Dole
-Dole
-Arrangements for departure
-Kansas
-Meeting with the President
-Bush
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. Apr.-08)
Conversation No. 817-16 (cont’d)
-Qualities
[End of segment reviewed under deed of gift]
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-Dole
-Behavior
-1972 Campaign
-The President’s view
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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2
[Privacy]
[Duration: 2s ]
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2
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[Begin segment reviewed under deed of gift]
-Support for Bush
-John N. Mitchell
-Bush appointment
-Announcement
[End of segment reviewed under deed of gift]
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The President's schedule
-Blair House reception honoring administration officials from California
-Arrangements
-Departure for Camp David
-Helicopter
-The President’s appreciation
-Hand-shaking
-Well-wishes for Robert H. Finch
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. Apr.-08)
Conversation No. 817-16 (cont’d)
-Departure for Camp David
-Haldeman’s request
-John D. Ehrlichman
-Frederick V. Malek
Second term reorganization
-Malek
-General Services Administration [GSA]
-Donald H. Rumsfeld
-Job offer
-Louise Gore
-Dr. James R. Schlesinger, Jr.
-Conversation with Haldeman
-[Central Intelligence Agency ] [CIA]
-Atomic Energy Commission [AEC] chairmanship
-Defense Intelligence Agency [DIA]
-Cuts
-Future
-Joint Chiefs of Chiefs [JCS]
-Intelligence capability
Henry A. Kissinger entered at 12:22 pm.
Vietnam negotiations
-Kissinger's meeting with Nguyen Phu Duc
-US policy toward South Vietnam
-Bilateral deal
-Prisoners of War [POWs] for US Withdrawal
-Continuation of war
-US military aid
-Cut off of funds
-Congressional relations
-North Vietnamese demand
-Cut off of funds
-Congressional relations
The President’s schedule
-Request for [Duc and Tran Kim Phuong]
Haldeman left at 12:22 pm.
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. Apr.-08)
Conversation No. 817-16 (cont’d)
The President’s schedule
-Possible meeting with Nguyen Van Thieu
-Midway
-Kissinger’s meeting with Duc
Vietnam negotiations
-Hoang Duc Nha
-Richard Wagnerian drama
-Settlement agreement
-Alexander M. Haig, Jr.
-Quality
-Continuation of war
-US economic aid
-Cut off of funds
-Congressional relations
-Duc’s and Tran Kim Phuong’s understanding
-Congressional relations
-The President's Meeting with Duc
-Effect
-South Vietnamese delay
-The President’s schedule
-Possible meeting with Thieu
-Conclusion
-Presentation to South Vietnamese Representatives
-The President’s possible meeting with Thieu
-Continuation of war
-US economic aid
-Cut off of funds
-Kissinger’s meetings with the North Vietnamese
-Message
-North and South Vietnamese parties
-Possible breakdown in negotiations
Duc, Phuong and Haig entered at 12:26 pm. Stephen B. Bull and White House photographer was
present at the beginning of the meeting.
Vietnam negotiations
-Kissinger's briefing of the President
-The President’s appreciation for Duc’s effort
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. Apr.-08)
Conversation No. 817-16 (cont’d)
-Settlement agreement
-Bilateral deal
-Continuation of war
-Qualification
-Three points of Thieu
-Forthcoming talks
-Possible North Vietnamese adamancy
-Continuation of war
-The President’s May 8, 1972 proposals
-Thieu’s view
-Immediate death
-Compared to slow death
-Possible military solution
-POWs for the cessation of US bombing and mining
cease-fire
-Cease-fire
-Violations
-Retaliation
-Bombing and mining
-Impact on North Vietnam
-Cessation
-Impact on South Vietnam
-The President’s recent meeting with the JCS
-Review of agreement
-Violations
-US responses
-Legal bases
-Gen. Creighton W. Abrams, Jr.’s view
-North Vietnamese infiltration
-Cambodia Laos provisions
-Demilitarized Zone [DMZ]
-US intelligence capability
-Contingency plans
-Air
-Details
-Revelation
-Melvin R. Laird
-Support for South Vietnam
-Meetings with Congressional “hawks” on Armed Services
Committees
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. Apr.-08)
Conversation No. 817-16 (cont’d)
-Foreign Affairs and Foreign Relations Committees
-“Doves”
-Agreement terms
-Cease-fire, return of POWs
-Political provisions
-Thieu retention
-Government of Vietnam [GVN] Control of
foreign and domestic policy, veto over
political process
-Publicity
-Cut off of funds
-Settlement agreement
-Thieu’s concern
-US economic and military aid
-Cut off
-GVN
-Survival
-Thieu’s view
-US Support
-Cease-fire, return of POWs
-Political provisions
-South Vietnamese self-determination
-GVN
-Retention
-Forthcoming talks
-The President’s written instructions for Kissinger
-The President’s meeting with Kissinger [in Key Biscayne]
-Remaining point
-Framework
-Conclusion
-The President’s possible meeting with Thieu
-Midway
-Purpose
-US military and economic support
-US response to violations
-Retaliation commitment
-Interpretation
-Press relations
-Timing
-Trip to Hanoi
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. Apr.-08)
Conversation No. 817-16 (cont’d)
-JCS
-Public relations
-Thieu's relationship with the President
-The President’s judgment
-Communists
-Politics
-The President's support
-Quality
-The President's possible meeting with Thieu
-Publicity
-Saigon
-Signing
-Timing
-Thieu’s possible rejection
-The President’s disagreement
-Consequences
-Termination of US economic aid
-US withdrawal
-Termination of US military aid
-North Vietnamese violations
-Termination of US retaliation commitment
-Congressional relations
-Democrats
-Thieu’s reasonableness
-Changes
-Termination of aid
-Crisis
-Constraints on the President
-Hawks
-Support for aid termination
-Thieu’s possible support
-Consequences
-US economic and military aid
-Enforcement
-Violations
-US retaliation
-JCS contingency plans
-Thieu’s possible rejection
-Bilateral deal
-Separate peace
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. Apr.-08)
Conversation No. 817-16 (cont’d)
-Consequence
-US assistance
-Termination
-Repetition of arguments
-The President’s possible meeting with Thieu
-Midway
-The President’s possible meeting with Thieu, Asian leaders
-Timing
-Bilateral deal
-Thieu’s relationship with the President
-Trust in the President
-Alliance with the US
-The President’s commitments
-Limits
-Congressional termination of aid
-Forthcoming talks
-North Vietnamese
-Three points of Thieu
-Reference to Provisional Revolutionary Government [PRG] as
government
-Text
-Preamble
-Priorities
-Reference to PRG
-Text
-Compared to preamble
-Possible North Vietnam claim
-Two governments in South Vietnam
-US unilateral statement
-Interpretation of text
-US unilateral statements
-Historical record
-Strategic Arms Litigation Treaty [SALT]
-US and Soviet Union
-North Vietnamese protocols
-Recognition of GVN
-National Council of National Reconciliation and Concord
[NCRC]
-Issue of governmental status
-GVN sovereignty
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. Apr.-08)
Conversation No. 817-16 (cont’d)
-North Vietnamese view
-Coalition government
-Three components
-Committee of National Reconciliation
[CNR]
-Appointments
-Redundancy of statement
-Effect of statement on South Vietnamese
-Compared to US view
-Article 8C
-North Vietnamese request for withdrawal
-Political prisoners in South Vietnam
-Concessions
-Provisions
-Changes
-Three components
-Respect for territories
-Interpretations
-The President's statements
-NCRC
-Political repercussions in South Vietnam
-Respect for territories
-Priorities
-PRG
-Preamble
-Respect for territories
-South Vietnamese interpretation
-Important Points
-The President’s experience as a lawyer
-Duc’s conversation with Kissinger and Haig
-Thieu’s sixty-nine changes
-Twelve changes
-Thieu's rejection
-Consequences
-Termination of economic and military aid
-Congressional relations
-Continuation of war
-Bilateral deal
-Continuation of war
-Return of POWs
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. Apr.-08)
Conversation No. 817-16 (cont’d)
-US bombing, mining
-Time table
-Laird’s view
-Appropriations Committee
-Committee organization
-Cut off of funds
-Effect on US-GVN relations
-Bilateral deal
-The President’s May 8, 1972 proposals
-Continuation of bombing
-Congressional relations
-Cut off of funds
-Effect on Laos, Cambodia
An unknown person entered at an unknown time after 12:26 pm.
Presidential gifts
-Cuff links
-Pins for wives
The unknown person left at an unknown time before 1:02 pm.
The President’s schedule
-Budget
Vietnam negotiations
-The President’s possible meeting with Thieu
-Midway
-Settlement agreement
-Settlement agreement
-Success
-US power
-The President's political position
-Strengths
-Weaknesses
Presidential gifts
-Cuff links
-Presidential seal in flag
-Pins
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. Apr.-08)
Conversation No. 817-16 (cont’d)
-Presidential seal on floor
Vietnam
-Settlement agreement
-Success
-US-GVN relations
-Thieu’s relationship with the President
-Congressional relations
-The President's and Thieu’s enemies
-Press
-Interest in failure
Tricia Nixon Cox's schedule
-The President's meeting with Haig
The President's meeting with Kissinger
-Timing
-Meeting with Haig
Duc, Phouong and Kissinger left at 1:02 pm.
Tricia Nixon Cox’s schedule
Bull entered at an unknown time after 1:02 pm.
The President’s schedule
-Trip to Florida
-Departure time
Items for the President’s schedule
-Alexander P. Butterfield
Bull left at an unknown time before 1:11 pm.
Kissinger
-Health
-Haig’s conversation with Haldeman
-Vacation
-Meeting with the President, November 29, 1972
-Oriana Fallaci article
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. Apr.-08)
Conversation No. 817-16 (cont’d)
-Explanation
-The President’s disagreement
-Egotism
-Emotional highs and lows
-Haig’s view
-Haig’s conversation with Haldeman
Second term reorganization
-State Department
-William J. Casey
-Recent meeting with Kissinger
-Graham A. Martin
-Loyalty
-Deputy Under Secretary for Management
-Replacement for William B. Macomber, Jr.
-Trustworthiness
-Work with Casey
-William P. Rogers departure as Secretary of State
-Timing
-Informing Kissinger
-Casey
-Economic affairs
-Frank C. Carlucci
-Reports
-Lt. Gen. Vernon A. Walters
-Brazil
-Appointments
Tricia Nixon Cox's trip
-The President’s meeting with Jeanne W. Davis
-Arrangements
Vietnam negotiations
Settlement agreement
-Duc’s understanding
-Thieu’s possible rejection
-Thieu’s message
-Kissinger’s view
-Ultimatum
-Continuation of war, bilateral deal
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. Apr.-08)
Conversation No. 817-16 (cont’d)
-Three principles
-The President’s May 8, 1972 proposals
-Using mining and bombing cessation
-Return to POWs
-Cease-fire
-Enforcement
-US-Soviet Union relations
-Possible breakdown
-North Vietnamese message
-Interest in settlement agreement
-Settlement agreement
-Congressional relations
-Gerald R. Ford
-Barry M. Goldwater
-Publicity
-Response to South Vietnamese rejection
-US aid
-Cut off of funds
-The President's possible meeting with Thieu
-Midway
-Purpose
-Negotiations
-Deadline
Haig’s schedule
-Vacation
-Timing
Kissinger
-Vietnam negotiations
-Difficulties
-First Round
-Paris
-October 1972
-Haig’s counsel
-1972 election
-Saigon
-Messages To North Vietnam
-Dealings with Thieu
-Work last week
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. Apr.-08)
Conversation No. 817-16 (cont’d)
Vietnam negotiations
-Kissinger’s meetings in Paris
-Haig’s schedule
-Haig’s schedule
-Meetings
-Settlement agreement
-Delay
-Thieu
-Thieu's acceptance
-The President’s meeting with JCS
-Thieu’s rejection
-Thieu’s acceptance
-Conclusion
-Communications
-Timing
-Thieu’s acceptance
-Possible delay
-Kissinger’s meetings in Paris
-Thieu’s rejection
-Bilateral deal
-POWs for withdrawal, end of US mining and bombing
-End of war
-Termination of US economic aid
Haig left at 1:11 pm.