Conversation: 909-025
Prev: 909-024 Next: 909-026Start Date: 2-May-1973 11:04 AM
End Date: 2-May-1973 12:10 PM
Participants:
Nixon, Richard M. (President); Brandt, Willy; [Unknown person(s)]; Kissinger, Henry A.; Rogers, William P.; Scheel, Walter; Bahr, Egon; Members of the press; White House photographer;Recording Device: Oval Office
NARA Description:
On May 2, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon, Willy Brandt, unknown person(s), Henry A. Kissinger, William P. Rogers, Walter Scheel, Egon Bahr, members of the press, and White House photographer met in the Oval Office of the White House from 11:04 am to 12:10 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 909-025 of the White House Tapes.
Nixon Library Finding Aid:
Conversation No. 909-25
Date: May 2, 1973
Time: 11:04 am - 12:10 pm
Location: Oval Office
The President met with Willy Brandt.
Greetings
-Head of State dinner, May 1
Brandt’s schedule
-National Press Club speech
-Meeting with President
-Composition
-Foreign ministers
-Photo opportunity
-Walter Scheel, William P. Rogers, Henry A. Kissinger, and Egon Bahr
An unknown man entered at an unknown time after 11:04 am.
Scheel, Rogers, Kissinger, and Bahr
-Meeting with President and Brandt
-Composition
The unknown man left at an unknown time before 11:06 am.
The Carpenters
-President’s viewpoint
-Brandt’s opinion
East-West relations
-Detente
-Kissinger’s forthcoming trip to Moscow
-Soviet summit
Henry A. Kissinger entered at 11:06 am.
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. October-2012)
Conversation No. 909-25 (cont’d)
Greetings
Agenda for meeting
-Energy
-Middle East
Brandt’s schedule
-Forthcoming National Press Club speech
Weather
Kissinger’s schedule
-Moscow and Copenhagen
Rogers, Scheel, and Bahr entered at 11:07 am.
Seating arrangements
-Press photographs
Brandt’s schedule
-National Press Club speech
-Weather
Members of the press and the White House photographer entered at 11:08 am.
Humor
-Translation
Press photographs
Head of State dinner
-Entertainment
-Youth
-California
Scheel [?]
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. October-2012)
Conversation No. 909-25 (cont’d)
Young American [?]
Press photographs
-Fishing analogy
Violin [?]
Stock [?]
The press and the White House photographer left at 11:13 am.
Air travel
-Scandinavian Airlines
-Lufthansa
-Problem
-Delay
-Compared to government plans
-Brandt
-Helmut H. W. Schmidt
Agenda of meeting
-Middle East
-Foreign ministers’ recommendation
-Energy
-Common interests
President’s schedule
-Europe
-“Big Four,” North Atlantic Treaty Organization [NATO]
Middle East
East-West relations
-Berlin
-Bahr’s analysis
-Soviet bloc countries
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. October-2012)
Conversation No. 909-25 (cont’d)
-German Democratic Republic [GDR]
-Four Power Agreement
-Soviet Union adherence
-Diplomatic and ceremonial recognition of West Germany,
West Berlin
-Soviet Union industrial exhibition
-Trade agreement
-US response
-Agreement with Soviet Union
-Trade
-Scheel’s letter to Leonid I. Brezhnev, May 1
-Cooperation Council
-Trade
-US role
-Common interests with West Germany
-Four Power Agreement framework
-Technical, cultural exchange
-“Berlin clause”
-Soviet Union adherence
-Compared with People’s Republic of China [PRC]
-European borders
-Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe [CSCE] in Helsinki
-Compared to Moscow treaty [West Germany-Soviet Union treaty]
-Frontier question and non-use of force
-Roles of US, Great Britain, France
-West Germany-Soviet Union treaty
-Compared to US-Soviet Union Joint Communique
-Changes in territorial boundaries
-Soviet Union view
-Immutability
-Compared with West Germany, US view
-Non-use of force
-CSCE
-US support for West Germany
-Soviet Union objectives
-Unification
-Europe, Germany
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. October-2012)
Conversation No. 909-25 (cont’d)
-Negotiations
-“Letter of the German question”
-Soviet Union adherence to agreements
-US-Europe relations
-West Berlin
-International air traffic
-Compared to East Berlin, GDR
-Agreements
-Consultations with US, Great Britain, France
-Impacts on visitors, West Berliners
-Questions on law, self-interest, security
-Passport control
-Roads
-Vehicular traffic
-Berlin agreements
-Soviet exhibit
-Brezhnev’s reaction, knowledge
United Nations [UN] membership
-West Germany and GDR
-Consequence of Berlin Agreement
-West Berlin
-Representation by West Germany
-Constitutional authority
-Procedures
-US, France, Great Britain
-Letter to Berlin Senat
-Notification of Soviet Union
-Bundestag
-Scheel’s letter to party leaders
-Scheel’s forthcoming speech
-Reading of treaties, application for UN membership
-Introduction of bill
-Ratification debate
-West Germany’s formal application to UN Security Council
-Timing
-General session compared to special session of General
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. October-2012)
Conversation No. 909-25 (cont’d)
Assembly
-Scheel’s conversation with Adam Malik
-Colleague on UN Security Council
-Stanislaw Trepczynski
-UN General Assembly presidency
-Implications of membership
-Positions on Israel, Vietnam
-Speeches
-Role of ambassador
-Selection
-Attendance at sessions
-Compared with role of foreign minister
CSCE
-Soviet Union objective
-Establishment of multinational organization
-US, West German views
-Great Britain
-Michael M. Stewart’s idea
-Standing committee
-Council of Europe
-Domestic political impact
-Three-phase structure
-Maurice Schumann’s idea
-Stewart
-Foreign ministers meeting
-Monaco’s representation
-Speeches
-Duration
-Monaco’s representation
-Foreign minister
-Grace Patricia Kelly [Grace, Priness of Monaco]
-Commission
-Multilateral preparation
-Subcommittee discussion
-Phase IV
-Duration
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. October-2012)
Conversation No. 909-25 (cont’d)
-Foreign ministers or Heads of State summit
-Dependence on second phase
-Commission progress
-Establishment of multinational organization
-Desirability
-US view
-Compared to UN
-West Germany’s membership
-Issues
-Rhodesia
-Armenia
-Burundi
-Soviet Union objective
-West Germany’s view
-UN
-Charter
-Existing regional organizations
-Economic Commission of Europe [ECE]
-Diplomatic correspondence
-Cables compared to letters
-Anecdote
-Otto von Bismarck
-Ambassador in Bangkok
-Communique
-Thailand, Khmer
tribes
Cuban cigars
-Customs official anecdote
-Disposal
Energy
-Kissinger’s viewpoint
-Cooperation
-Necessity
-West Germany
-Dependence on foreign oil
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. October-2012)
Conversation No. 909-25 (cont’d)
-Contrasted with US
-Imports
-International companies
-US companies
-Energy sources
-Oil compared to coal and hydroelectric
-German Oil Group
-Market share
-Relations with oil-producing countries
-Iran
-Increasing energy needs
-Oil policies
-Coordination with US
-Coordination with European Economic Community [EEC]
-Foreign ministers meeting
-Timing
-Coordination with US, Japan
-Consumer competition
-US policy
-Oil production cooperatives [?]
-Investment in US
-Soviet Union
-Natural gas
-Liquefied natural gas [LNG]
-Transportation
-Cooperation with West Germany, EEC
-Existing commitments
-Possible consultations
-Natural gas
-US investment in Soviet Union
-Natural gas resources
-Investment capital
-Cost
-US companies
-Regulation
-Cost
-Comparison with US domestic price
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. October-2012)
Conversation No. 909-25 (cont’d)
-Price supports
-Compared to West Germany
-US government subsidies
-Private investment
-Security concerns
-Development
-Embargo
-Supply estimate
-US supply from Algeria
-Private contract
-El Paso Gas Company
-Nigeria
-Oil companies
-US and Europe
-Antitrust laws
-Contracts with producers
-Exchange rates
-Bargaining
-Mohammed Reza Pahlavi [Shah of Iran]
-Malik Faisal ibn Abd al-Aziz al-Saud [King of Saudi Arabia]
-Mammer Qaddafi
-Unpredictability
-Venezuela
-Contract with Iran
-Pahlavi [Shah of Iran]
*****************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
[National security]
[Duration: 55 s ]
BRANDT’S MEETING WITH PAHLAVI [SHAH OF IRAN]
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. October-2012)
Conversation No. 909-25 (cont’d)
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
*****************************************************************
Energy
-Soviet Union supply compared to Iranian oil production
-Compared to caviar, basalt
Meeting agenda
-Break
Middle East
-Prospects for peace
-Possible effect on oil supply
-Brandt’s visit to Israel
-Scheel’s schedule
-Europe
-Brezhnev
-Near East
-Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon
-Michel Jobert [?]
-Morocco [?], Iran
-Brandt’s meeting with Golda Meir
-Peace negotiations
-Difficulties
-US role
-Significance
-Israel
-Bargaining position
-Meir’s viewpoint
-US support
-Soviet Union
-Soviet Union
-Soviet Union
-People’s Republic of China [PRC]
-Soviet Jews [?]
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. October-2012)
Conversation No. 909-25 (cont’d)
An unknown person entered at an unknown time after 11:13 am.
Middle East
-Soviet Union
-Avoidance of confrontation
Brandt’s schedule
The unknown person left at an unknown time before 12:10 pm.
Middle East
-Peace negotiations
-Settlement
-Historical context
-Likelihood of success
-Timing
-Israel’s elections, October 1973
-Israel
-Strength
-President’s respect
-Rationality
-Possible conflict
-Urgency
-US position
-Need for rationality, compromise
-Israel
-US talks
-West Germany’s role
-Rogers’s talks with Bahr and Scheel
-Arabs
-Egypt and Israel talks
-Hussein ibn Talal [Hussein, King of Jordan]’s role
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. October-2012)
Conversation No. 909-25 (cont’d)
*****************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2
[National security]
[Duration: 5 s ]
JORDAN
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2
*****************************************************************
Middle East
-Peace negotiations
-Egypt
-Possible peace talks
-UN’s role
-Israel
-US role
-Relations with Israel
-Relations with Arab countries
-Moderator
-Arab acceptance
-Soviet Union’s support
-West Germany’s intervention
-Brezhnev’s viewpoint
-Egypt
-Interim agreement
-US viewpoint
-Anwar Sadat
-Israel
-Flexibility
-Compared with previous year
-Talks
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. October-2012)
Conversation No. 909-25 (cont’d)
-Terms
-Sadat
-Territory
-Israeli withdrawal
-Israel
-Sadat
-Linkage
-Egypt, Arabs
-Israel
-UN Security Council Resolution 242
-Egypt
-US role
-Israel
-Imposed solution
-Compared to West Germany
-Scheel’s previous remarks, May 1
-Soviet Union’s role
-Israel
-Imposed settlement
-Egypt
-US role
-Stalemate
-Imposed settlement
-Israel
-Forthcoming elections
-Impact on negotiations
Brandt’s schedule
-National Press Club
The President et al. left at 12:10 pm.
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. October-2012)
Conversation No. 909-26 (cont’d)