Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 2 › Conversation 002-104

Nixon phone call with Ford on Supersonic transport and Lockheed

Thursday, May 6, 1971 · 9:20 AM–9:26 AM ET · White House Telephone · 5 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Ford, Gerald R.Conversation002-104 on Tape 2 (tape position 03:43:33–03:48:46)StartThursday, May 6, 1971 at 9:20 AMEndThursday, May 6, 1971 at 9:26 AMRecording deviceWhite House TelephoneSourceNixon Library record for 002-104 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Congressman Gerald Ford discussed legislative strategy regarding the funding of the Supersonic Transport (SST) and upcoming appropriations bills. They explored linking the SST vote to other legislative priorities, such as Lockheed funding, to pressure key members of Congress. Additionally, the President urged Ford to utilize new polling data to sway lawmakers against the pending end-the-war resolution by emphasizing public opposition to a hasty withdrawal.

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Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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Hello.
Congressman Ford, Mr. President.
Hello.
Mr. President.
Hello.
Good morning, Mr. President.
Hi, Jerry.
Hi.
I wanted to ask you, you know, on this SST thing.
Right.
We're keeping it very closely held here for reasons, as you know, but I thought you should know that today I'm going to have Connolly announce the other one now.
Right.
I told him about it last night.
I said that we had this, and he was delighted.
And he said, well, now the way to play this game, of course, he's tough as hell.
He says in the Senate, he said, Maggie and Scoop Jackson should just tell Cranston and Connie Cold Turkey, look here, we're not going to vote for Lockheed unless you agree to vote for SST.
That's the way to handle it.
And we're going to do the same thing in the House.
And that's the way he's going to play it.
Now, second point is that
i will uh mean he's going to leave town monday but i'm going to try to get him in he couldn't make breakfast today and i even opened up saturday for him he couldn't make it then i'm going to try again friday and i'm going to lay the hooks right to him on both i'm going to put both issues but i'm going to tell him that we may have an sst vote he can be trusted though is that all right with you absolutely fine now on this whole thing
In my view, that if you just get your nose count down and everything, that if there's anything we can do,
these fellows.
I mean, there are various things.
For example, take a fellow like Smitty.
Now, he ought to change his mind on this.
Lockheed is involved in this thing.
He just could put it on the basis, well, what the hell?
It's jobs, and he says, we can't get Lockheed unless we get this.
They can compromise a little.
Nobody's going to remember it.
And Alan Smith went, I checked it the other day, he won by 75,000 votes.
Oh,
Alan Smith can't be beaten.
You couldn't beat him, by God, if he killed his grandmother, if she's living, or his mother, if she's living, or his wife, if she's living.
Believe me.
I know that district.
That's a district.
He was in the state legislature, Jerry.
He had that district carved out for him so that nobody could beat him.
Christ, they couldn't run anybody against Alan Smith.
no no no this is not there's nothing to do with that knowing we for your leaders not to go on it is just ridiculous so i think this is one time by playing it real cold and tough that we can do something now what is about what do you figure is the date well we will know probably today or tomorrow depending on the rule that they grant there are two bills coming up next week that uh are important one the manpower now yeah
One is going to come Tuesday and the appropriation Wednesday, or vice versa.
They'll both be either Tuesday or Wednesday, and I'm not sure which yet.
I'll know probably late today or tomorrow.
And then this now is an appropriation bill, which then goes to the Senate.
So it will not go immediately to conference.
No, we have to take the action first.
It's the second supplemental.
Second supplemental, but they got a hell of a... Well, they got a...
But it's something that the Senate cannot filibuster around on, can they?
No, no, because it has a number of very sensitive items.
Sensitive items they have to work, so good.
And it'll go to the Appropriations Committee in the Senate, and they got to go around on it.
Right.
Then it'll go to the Senate floor, and then if the Senate votes the other way, then it goes to conference, and then the Appropriations Committee is, well, my God, we ought to have a pretty good conference out of that, except for that stupid Eleanor.
Now, he...
I think we have the best of both worlds, Mr. President, even if we were to lose in the House.
Yeah.
The Senate could take the action on their own, you see.
Sure.
And in conference, our conferees would be sympathetic.
Sure.
Well, let me say, I think you can win in the House.
We're going to try.
I really feel it can win and get a few people to take off and so forth.
Now, on the other thing in this bill, when would you think the vote would take place on the end-of-the-war resolution?
It's in the full committee this morning, and it will come either Tuesday or Wednesday, because both of these issues will come to a head.
at the same time well if they're if the boys if they find this uh this uh if this poll material is coming out in the sunday papers or something i've told them now to get it hand delivered to you and to les and then you fellows you know the way you take a poll these guys don't read you've got to just go show it to them you know what i mean because these guys are on the wrong side of this issue now you see the wrong side in this sense
They all think everybody wants to end the war.
We all know that.
But they don't realize that as far as the people are concerned, if you put the issue straight out to them, look, do you want to end the war and turn the country over to the communists?
People are against that.
See, that's the thing that we've got to get across to them.
Well, these demonstrators haven't helped their cause, I don't think, one damn bit.
Some of the guys must be turning against them.
We've got some things lined up with Henry Kissinger's office and the State Department and others to...
try and keep some of these people as firm as I think they should be.
We'll do our best.
All right.
Okay, fine.
Thank you.

NARA Description

On May 6, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon and Gerald R. Ford talked on the telephone from 9:20 am to 9:26 am. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 002-104 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 2-104

Date: May 6, 1971
Time: 9:20 am - 9:26 am
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with Gerald R. Ford.

[See Conversation No. 493-3B]

     Supersonic transport [SST] controversy
          -John B. Connally
          -Senate
               -Margaret Chase Smith
               -Henry M. (“Scoop”) Jackson
               -Alan Cranston
               -John V. Tunney
          -Lockheed
          -George Meany
          -House
               -H. Allen Smith
               -Vote
               -Upcoming bills
                     -Manpower
                     -Appropriations
               -Supplemental appropriation
               -Calendar
               -Conference with Senate
                     -Allen J. Ellender
               -End-the-war resolution
                     -Polls
                                                                                               Back to Top

       Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, NARA Online Public Access Catalog Identifier: 597542

[A transcript of the following portion of this conversation was prepared under court order from
December 1978 through March 1979 for Special Access 8, Ronald V. Dellums, et al. v. James M.
Powell, et al., No. 71-2271. The National Archives and Records Administration produced this
transcript. The National Archives does not guarantee its accuracy.]

[End of transcript]

            -Henry A. Kissinger
            -State Department

Also recorded on May 6, 1971

  • 002-102 8:37 AM · 4 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 8:37 am and 9:10 am.
  • 002-107 8:37 AM · 2 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 8:37 am and 8:51 am.
  • 493-001 8:45 AM · 7 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Alexander P. Butterfield met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 8:45 am and 8:55 am.
  • 002-108 8:53 AM · 11 min — President Richard M. Nixon and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman talked on the telephone from 8:53 am to 9:11 am.
  • 493-002 8:55 AM · 18 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 8:55 am and 9:00 am.
  • 493-003 9:00 AM · 48 min — President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, White House operator, Manolo Sanchez, Gerald R. Ford, and Alexander P. Butterfield met in the Oval Office of the White House from 9:00 am to 10:00 am.
  • 002-103 9:10 AM · 7 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at 9:10 am.
  • 493-004 10:00 AM · 41 sec — President Richard M. Nixon, Stephen B. Bull, and unknown person(s) met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 10:00 am and 10:08 am.

All 36 conversations from May 6, 1971 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 002-104, May 6, 1971. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/002-104 (accessed October 3, 2026).