Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 5 › Conversation 005-141

Nixon phone call with Gubser on Paul J. McCloskey Jr. and Laos bombing

Wednesday, June 23, 1971 · 2:46 PM–2:48 PM ET · White House Telephone · 2 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Gubser, Charles S.Conversation005-141 on Tape 5 (tape position 04:22:40–04:25:07)StartWednesday, June 23, 1971 at 2:46 PMEndWednesday, June 23, 1971 at 2:48 PMRecording deviceWhite House TelephoneSourceNixon Library record for 005-141 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon calls Congressman Charles Gubser to commend his recent performance in a congressional caucus and to express support for his plan to challenge fellow California Representative Paul J. McCloskey, Jr. Gubser outlines his intent to deliver a speech in McCloskey’s district refuting claims that the administration is engaged in an indiscriminate bombing campaign in Laos. Nixon encourages the effort, viewing McCloskey’s behavior as politically motivated and comparing him to Representative Donald W. Riegle, Jr. The two agree that Gubser will provide a copy of his speech to the White House for review.

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Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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Hello.
I'm Congressman Goop, sir.
Okay.
On the line, sir.
Hello.
Hello.
Charlie, I just called to tell you that I was talking to Jerry a couple days ago, and he was telling me how really effective you were in the caucus on that resolution.
And also, I've been thinking I'd see you sometime to tell you that...
I realize your neighbor over there causing a little trouble, and I don't want you to get embarrassed by having to take him on.
Mr. President, that's what I'm going to do on Saturday.
Where are you going to be?
Out in California?
In his district.
I tell you, I have asked some way of Mr. Klein's staff to help me on the speech, and I've got him dead to rights.
What kind of issue do you want to hit?
Well, I want to prove that he is totally misrepresenting the facts when he says that we're engaged in an indiscriminate policy of bombing Laos.
Well, he is.
That's all I'm going to talk about.
All right.
And I've proved my case.
In fact, Shumway had a copy of it.
All right.
I'm going to take him on.
I'm sick and tired of a man downgrading his country just for his own political advantage.
That's what he's doing, too.
And he knows better.
I would like sometime to get a copy of that speech in your hands.
I don't know.
I think I'll send it down to Mr. Shumway, and it'll probably get it.
Yeah, it will, Senator Shumway, but are you satisfied with it?
Do you want any more dope?
I don't know.
I worked for two weeks on it.
No, no, no.
You've got enough.
Sullivan has helped me and everyone has helped me.
Well, and you've got a speech.
Well, Sullivan knows it better than anybody I know.
I've got an airtight case, too.
All right.
and send me a copy, will you?
I certainly will.
And I'll get a copy of it.
I want to know.
But in the meantime, that's good country up there.
One day I'll come in.
Good.
And Pete, I don't know, he's emotional and everything, but the guy knows better, you know.
He's too smart.
The man has flipped his lid.
He's like the fellow from Michigan, Regal.
They're sort of two of a kind, aren't they?
I know.
They just get carried away with press exposure.
Not a handle.
They love that TV.
Yeah.
Okay.
We appreciate your calling.
Well, anyway, I appreciate it.
I just want you to know we don't overlook those things.
Well, I appreciate that very much.
I'll keep fighting.
You bet you will.
Bye.
Bye-bye.

NARA Description

On June 23, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon and Charles S. Gubser talked on the telephone from 2:46 pm to 2:48 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 005-141 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 5-141

Date: June 23, 1971
Time: 2:46 pm - 2:48 pm
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with Charles S. Gubser.

[See Conversation No. 258-41]

     Gubser's effectiveness on caucus resolution
         -President's conversation with Gerald R. Ford

     Gubser's fellow California Congressman [Paul J. McCloskey, Jr.]
         -Gubser's forthcoming speech
                -DeVan L. Shumway
                      -Herbert G. Klein
         -Bombing of Laos
         -Actions
         -Copy of speech to President
                -William C. Sullivan
                -Donald W. Riegle, Jr.

Also recorded on June 23, 1971

  • 005-139 2:39 PM · 4 min — President Richard M. Nixon, F. Edward Hébert, and Melvin R. Laird talked on the telephone from 2:39 pm to 2:44 pm.
  • 005-140 2:45 PM · 1 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Pierre S. DuPont talked on the telephone from 2:45 pm to 2:46 pm.
  • 258-039 2:45 PM · 46 sec — President Richard M. Nixon, Alexander P. Butterfield, and unknown person(s) met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 2:45 pm to 2:46 pm.
  • 258-040 2:45 PM · 1 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Pierre S. DuPont met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 2:45 pm to 2:46 pm.
  • 258-041 2:46 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Charles S. Gubser met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 2:46 pm to 2:48 pm.
  • 258-042 2:48 PM · 6 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Alexander M. Haig, Jr., and Garry E. Brown met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 2:48 pm to 3:04 pm.
  • 005-142 2:51 PM · 1 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Garry E. Brown talked on the telephone from 2:51 pm to 2:52 pm.
  • 005-143 2:52 PM · 6 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 2:52 pm and 3:05 pm.

All 52 conversations from June 23, 1971 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 005-141, June 23, 1971. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/005-141 (accessed October 10, 2026).