Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 10 › Conversation 010-121

Nixon phone call with Burns on Phase II economic program

Thursday, October 7, 1971 · 11:19 AM–11:24 AM ET · White House Telephone · 5 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); White House operator; Burns, Arthur F.Conversation010-121 on Tape 10 (tape position 04:00:48–04:05:25)StartThursday, October 7, 1971 at 11:19 AMEndThursday, October 7, 1971 at 11:24 AMRecording deviceWhite House TelephoneSourceNixon Library record for 010-121 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Federal Reserve Chairman Arthur Burns discuss the communication strategy and implementation details for Phase II of the administration's economic program. They coordinate on messaging regarding interest rates and dividends, with Nixon emphasizing that Burns' involvement is essential to provide the necessary moral authority and impact. They further agree on the necessity of requesting standby controls from Congress to preempt political pressure from legislators like Wright Patman and John McClellan.

  • Phase II economic program
  • Federal Reserve Board
  • interest rates
  • economic policy
  • rhetoric
  • standby controls

Audio

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Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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Mr. President, I have Dr. Burns calling, and Mr. Bill Sapphire wanted to mention that he has talked to him first, and it is good news.
Okay.
President.
Hello.
Thank you.
Hi, Arthur.
Good morning, Mr. President.
You were in New York yesterday, so I didn't get a chance to talk to you, but I wondered if Bill has talked to you yet?
Yes, he has.
Great, great.
And I've made a few minor changes in language.
Well, I wanted you to check the language.
Yeah, right.
Right.
Mr. President, just a couple of things.
Number one, I think it's wonderful that you've been able to reach a decision on Phase 2 so quickly.
Yes.
i think the faster you get this out the better and i'm delighted and i think you're going in a very sound way as you know they did uh they did bend to your wishes on the setting the target of two to three yeah i think that will help yeah now i will i'm not putting that in my remarks because it's too comp if i say two to three people it's too confusing but it's to be hit connolly will hit it tomorrow and of course uh
McCracken will hit it today in the briefing.
Yeah.
Oh, I think that's very good.
Now, let me ask you this.
The one thing I was concerned about tonight, and I want to get you, Jeremy, I wonder the interest side of this, but on the dividend side, is that a proper thing for the Fed to do?
Did that worry you?
Well, they...
I'd prefer to have you do it, you understand.
But if it worries you, it's pure jaw-boning, and it might work.
Well, what I thought in the actual operation, I could turn that over pretty much to Maury Stantz.
The question is...
The main thing, though, is if you can have the Burns Committee, it's going to be much stronger...
medicine, Arthur, than to have the Stans Committee or the Romney Committee.
You see, that's our choice on interest.
Yeah.
And we just can't have that.
Yeah.
And that's why I told, when we met on this, and they, you know, when you were in New York, I said, well, Burns was considering, and I said, well, the difficulty with the other names is that they're not going to have any impact, and part of this is the moral impact.
Well, it's a little troublesome, but, Mr. President, we live in difficult times.
Sure.
I'm willing to assume a little trouble.
I see you've changed.
Bill just walked in.
As a safeguard, that's good.
I don't want to give the indication that we're going to step in with a lot of laws right away.
Oh, I'm so glad.
As a safeguard, I will ask the Congress.
Now, that doesn't bother you?
No.
There's standby controls over infiltration.
Mr. President, I don't think you have much of a choice.
If you don't say it... Oh, well, you heard those people in those meetings.
The Congress will.
Congressmen will propose it.
Well, Patman will.
Yeah, sure.
Well, others will, too.
Well, as a matter of fact, even John McClellan came in to see me, Arthur.
Very conservative.
He's running this year.
He says, you've got to do something about interest.
Yeah, that's it.
And I said, well, you know, you give them the gobbledygook, but...
Well, we're doing something, but, well, no, the people don't think so.
So let's say it and then hope to God to go down.
I know it.
Yeah.
Well, I met with bankers yesterday, New York bankers, and I told them that we probably will have to go that way, but we'll try to keep this on a voluntary basis, and a lot will depend on them.
And also they'll trust you, but on the other hand, Arthur, if you get on the phone call, somebody's going to have more impact than anybody else in this country.
So you just do it, okay?
Well, I'm going to help as much as I can.
This is terribly important.
I appreciate it.
And I'm going to slug it to him on the high level tonight, and you do it on the low level, you know.
But if you need to, kick him in the grind.
Fine.
Mr. President, I haven't read your speech.
I hope the rhetoric is strong.
Don't worry.
It's very strong.
Probably too strong, but it's strong.
Yeah, fine.
It just, it basically, it says...
says we're going to continue rather than that we're that I'm not calling it a new program I'm going to I'm calling it a continuation of the old well now that's the right see and now basically it is new but I say we are going to continue the program of wages treatment that was the key thing that I thought had to be in there so I remember you recommended that and I put that out right
But I've got some lines in there you'll like.
Well, wonderful.
That's right.
Now that we're getting a little, some good economic news.
Yeah, the wholesale prices was good.
The price index.
Have you seen the unemployment figure?
I understand a little now.
Just a little, not enough, but.
Well, at least it didn't go up.
Yeah, right.
Yeah.
Right.
All right.
All right.
Good luck tonight.
Thank you.
Yeah.
All right.

NARA Description

On October 7, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, White House operator, and Arthur F. Burns talked on the telephone from 11:19 am to 11:24 am. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 010-121 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 10-121

Date: October 7, 1971
Time: 11:19 am - 11:24 am
Location: White House Telephone

The White House operator talked with the President.

     Arthur F. Burns

     William L. Safire

Burns talked with the President.

[See Conversation No. 285-16F]

     Phase II
          -Burns’ schedule
                -Safire
                      -Speech draft
          -Burns’ assessment
          -Briefings
                -John B. Connally
                -Paul W. McCracken
          -Federal Reserve Board [FRB]
                -Interest
                      -Maurice H. Stans
                      -George W. Romney
          -Stand-by controls
                -Interest rates
                      -Congressmen
                            -Wright Patman
                            -John L. McClellan
          -Burns’ schedule
                -Meeting with New York bankers
          -Speech
                -Rhetoric
          -Economic indicators
                -Wholesale price index
                -Unemployment

Also recorded on October 7, 1971

  • 010-117 10:58 AM · 8 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 10:58 am and 11:07 am.
  • 010-118 11:07 AM · 47 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and John N. Mitchell talked on the telephone from 11:07 am to 11:08 am.
  • 010-119 11:08 AM · 10 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 11:08 am and 11:10 am.
  • 010-120 11:10 AM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and John N. Mitchell talked on the telephone from 11:10 am to 11:13 am.
  • 010-122 11:24 AM · 8 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 11:24 am and 11:51 am.
  • 010-123 11:51 AM · 4 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Thelma C. ("Pat") (Ryan) Nixon talked on the telephone from 11:51 am to 11:56 am.
  • 010-124 11:56 AM · 6 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 11:56 am and 12:01 pm.
  • 010-125 12:01 PM · 19 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and William L. Safire talked on the telephone from 12:01 pm to 12:02 pm.

All 106 conversations from October 7, 1971 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 010-121, October 7, 1971. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/010-121 (accessed October 6, 2026).