Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 12 › Conversation 012-087

Nixon phone call with Harlow on Secretary of Agriculture

Friday, October 22, 1971 · 5:20 PM–5:27 PM ET · White House Telephone · 6 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Harlow, Bryce N.; [Unknown person(s)]Conversation012-087 on Tape 12 (tape position 03:19:46–03:26:02)StartFriday, October 22, 1971 at 5:20 PMEndFriday, October 22, 1971 at 5:27 PMRecording deviceWhite House TelephoneSourceNixon Library record for 012-087 ↗ · National Archives Catalog, NAID 417191677 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Bryce N. Harlow discussed the selection process for a new Secretary of Agriculture and exchanged congratulations regarding the recent, successful nominations of Lewis F. Powell, Jr. to the Supreme Court. Harlow advised the President against considering certain senators due to constitutional eligibility constraints and provided an analysis of the leading departmental candidates, specifically Clarence D. Palmby, J. Phillip Campbell, and Earl L. Butz. Nixon directed Harlow to consult with Henry L. Bellmon to gauge his perspective on the candidates and instructed him to deliver a final recommendation by the following Tuesday.

Audio

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NARA Description

On October 22, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, Bryce N. Harlow, and unknown person(s) talked on the telephone from 5:20 pm to 5:27 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 012-087 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 012-087

Date: October 22, 1971
Time: 5:20 pm- 5:27 pm
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with Bryce N. Harlow.

     The President's Supreme Court nominees
          -Harlow’s view
          -Lewis F. Powell, Jr.
               -"Kilpo" [Carroll K. Kilpatrick ?]

     Previous discussion on appointment of new Secretary of Agriculture
          -Henry L. Bellmon's status
                -Possible Senate appointee
          -Three candidates
                -Indiana
                -Clifford M. Hardin
                -Under secretary
                -Clarence D. Palmby
                -Earl L. Butz

                 -Palmby
                 -J. Phillip Campbell
                       -Farm Bureau
                              -Georgia Farm Bureau
                 -Palmby
                 -Butz

The President conferred with an unknown person at an unknown time between 5:20 pm and 5:27
pm.

     [Unintelligible]

[End of conferral]

                       -Ezra Taft Benson
                 -Palmby
                 -Bellmon
                       -Palmby
                       -Campbell
                       -Butz
                             -Benson
                       -Palmby
                 -Louis B. Nunn
                 -Palmby
                 -Bellmon

Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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Hello.
Mr. Harlow, sir.
Yeah.
You are.
Hi, Bryce.
How are you?
Well, I appreciate very much you taking my call.
I don't like to bother you.
Oh, not at all.
I called you.
Number one, I just wanted to hear what you did last night.
Oh, thank you.
Oh, God, it was great.
We sort of stuck it to him a little.
Well, I think that this is one of your great things.
I really mean it.
These are both good men, you know.
Powell's a little old, but as I said to Kilpo, or one of the fellows afterwards, one of the press guys, I said, look, 10 years of Powell is worth 30 for most others.
Well, in any case, you have finessed this beautifully and done good for the court, and you looked good, and you made a bunch of asses out of a whole bunch of asses.
In other words, they don't know, huh?
They sure must.
I called you about the thing we discussed the other day.
Yeah, yeah, that's what I...
I'm not trying to pry into that or bother you with it, but I... No, go ahead.
We haven't decided the thing.
Well, I suspect that probably you hadn't, and I wanted to give you some input.
No.
That's right.
Go right ahead.
Have you been advised yet about Henry's status?
Not at all.
You see, we run into the Constitution.
Oh, that's right.
He can't take a post.
No member of the Senate elected in 1968 can take a post until their term expires.
That's right.
So let's forget that.
So there's no member of the Senate.
Because he was elected then, yeah.
That's right.
House guys are all absolved now, but no member of the Senate like that can be sent out.
And I'm embarrassed that it bothers you with that.
And I just wanted to give you the way it looks, because this leaves you, I think, three valid candidates, two in the department and our friend out in Indiana.
And it seems to me, as you measure that out carefully, and for your private information, I had a long two-hour chat about all of this with Hardin today at lunch, on his initiative, not mine.
And he was just talking about it and how it looks to him.
One is the Undersecretary, and the other is Palmby, and the other is Butt.
Of those, I think that you are driven almost irresistibly to Palmby, as a man who has been running the department in effect in many ways anyhow, and a man whom you came close to appointing in 1968.
Remember, you were under very heavy pressure to appoint him then, by almost the entire Republican side of the Congress, if you'll recall that.
I say that in lieu of Campbell, whom I like very much.
But the trouble is, he's anathema to the Farm Bureau.
You know, he's in the Farm Bureau, but it's the Georgia Farm Bureau, and it always is at war with the National Farm Bureau.
And it just won't float for that reason, I don't think, although it would be popular, of course, in the South.
farm, you would go right up the smokestack.
Palmby is a highly competent man in the field.
He's a farmer also.
On Earl Butts, Earl Butts two things.
One is the Benson thing we discussed, and the other is that he is an academicist instead of a farmer.
And so I'd put him third.
I think that's where you are, and I just wanted to... Well, you think Palmby, then, huh?
I would say so.
And I wanted to ask you...
He's sure not very impressive fellow, is he?
Not in that sense.
We can't get a better salesman.
Well, he's respected, though.
He's respected as a very highly competent technician in this field.
And I think, therefore, it would be well received.
Now, I wanted to ask you to leave to do something about this.
Yeah.
Give you a little more steerage.
Sure.
Yes, I want you to do it, and I want you to go right after the thing.
Well, this was the thought I had.
I wanted to leave to have a frank little private chat with Henry now.
He's not eligible, you see.
Yeah, yeah, of course.
And ask him how he feels about the Pompey-Campbell
You see what this practical farmer, politician thinks would be just to get his input for you.
Yeah, okay.
Which you'll get from that conference.
Well, I guess it's just out of the question to try to go to anybody outside.
Well, it's Butts there, of course.
Well, Butts, well, I know, but you think that's out because he's Farm Bureau.
I think...
I mean, Benson, Benson, Benson.
He's Benson, and he's an academician.
Yeah.
Another professor.
Another professor.
Pompey is, too, a professor, isn't he?
No, sir.
No.
No, no.
He was head of the feed grain operations in Washington.
Yeah.
Came into the department.
There isn't anybody, there's no young guy or anything, nothing who's a farmer.
I just think some cattlemen, they are not the right kind.
How about a milk producer?
In the area you want.
How about a milk producer?
I went over all of this in meticulous care with the secretary at noontime.
Exploring the academicians, the heads of the agriculture.
Don't give me an academician.
The state agriculture leaders, you know, the government.
There's nobody there.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm ignoring, of course, Louie for the purpose of my discussion.
Yeah, I think you're right, too.
I really don't think he's right.
It won't wash. Well, Palmby may be the best.
Although Palmby will just look like a continuation of what we're doing, so that doesn't help us much, does it?
If people don't like what we're doing, Bryce, putting Palmby in doesn't change it.
Well, that's true, but the way this area is going to go is what you've got out there in the summer of next year.
Yeah.
Not the way it is right now.
Yeah, fine.
Isn't it?
Right.
Well, that's right.
Well, I'll tell you, you look it over and give me your best judgment by Tuesday.
Can you do that?
Yes, sir.
Okay.
And I'll give you the input out of Henry.
All right.
All right.
Thank you.
Bye.

Also recorded on October 22, 1971

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  • 012-084 3:14 PM · 4 min — Alexander P. Butterfield, White House operator, and Manolo Sanchez talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 3:14 pm and 3:30 pm.
  • 012-085 3:14 PM · 6 min — Alexander P. Butterfield, White House operator, Linwood Holton, and President Richard M. Nixon talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 3:14 pm and 3:30 pm.
  • 012-086 3:35 PM · 7 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone from 3:35 pm to 5:20 pm.
  • 012-088 5:40 PM · 20 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Emilio Colombo talked on the telephone from 5:40 pm to 5:59 pm.
  • 012-089 9:13 PM · 4 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at 9:13 pm.

All 39 conversations from October 22, 1971 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 012-087, October 22, 1971. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives (NAID 417191677). Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/012-087 (accessed November 2, 2026).