Conversation 013-036

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Hello?

How are you?

Nelson, how are you?

Well, listen, I'm great.

Fine, fine.

You're doing fine.

Nice to hear your voice.

I always keep in touch through our friend Ryland.

Listen, I took the liberty of calling because I had a nice visit with Bob Finch on the phone this morning.

He told me about his trip to Latin America.

Oh, yes, yes, yes.

Yeah, I asked him, of course, to check in with you before he went.

Well, you're great, and I appreciate it.

He wanted to get some people to go, and we're helping him on that with some from the business community.

Right.

I had this thought, which I took the liberty of proposing to him, and he thought it might be, that you might be interested to sort of discuss it, so I've taken the liberty of calling you.

Namely that

When we talked after the report that I worked out for you before, you then came out with this concept that we would give preferential treatment to underdeveloped nations.

Right.

Do it for Latin America.

And then we haven't done a damn thing about it, I know.

And I was wondering whether now that things are moving and you're in the second phase of this whole economic program,

whether by any chance there might be an opportunity before he goes to say that you were going to either give consideration or actually lift the 10% import charge for the developed nations or developing nations.

Let me say this, that we're right on the same track.

Marvelous.

And this is in confidence at this point for obvious reasons.

We are...

Now examining a plan, Nelson, where we can do it for the Canadians and for Latin America.

Now, the Canadian thing is holding it up a bit because we want to try to get something from them on a commitment on their oil.

You know, it's a complicated matter that I won't go into, but you know the problem, probably, that they buy cheap oil from Venezuela and sell expensive oil to us.

We don't mind that, but we want to be sure

that if our oil supply gets cut off, they'll continue to sell the oil to us and not hold us up, you see.

And they ought to make that commitment to us, I think.

Anyway, we think that if we can do that, then that we could lift it for the whole bunch.

Now, the second point, though, and I'm sure you'll appreciate this, and Conley and I talked a little about this, that when we do do it,

We thought we might move maybe a day early on places like Mexico that were good enough to vote with us in that U.N. vote.

Right.

And a little day later on, you understand what I mean?

Yeah.

Just let them have a little bit of a little advance on the thing.

But our plan, the whole surcharge, the move toward removing it for Latin America is good.

Now when you go

I'm inclined to think, frankly, that I'd rather do it there.

Connolly will be talking to the Indonesians, the Thais, the Filipinos, and, of course, the Japanese.

The Japanese is a special problem, but that's coming along nicely.

The problem we have, though, is that I, frankly, don't really want to remove it for all those damn African countries, you know.

You get my point?

How do you feel about that?

Here's the thing.

We have got to start

having more of a program of reward and punishment, not openly, but just quietly.

Countries that are for us, like it was hard for the Mexicans to vote with us on this, but Echeverria did it, you know, and now he deserves a little credit, in my view.

I think this is great.

And I don't see why.

I mean, the Europeans have got their economic picture.

I don't see why we can't have a Western Hemisphere one.

Right.

And then we'll negotiate with the Europeans at a later time.

That is our present thinking.

The Europeans, they're playing their own games.

And we understand that.

But we've got to play our games, too.

Not only the Western Hemisphere.

It seems to me it should be the Western Hemisphere.

Naturally, Australia, New Zealand, and it could be Indonesia, Thailand, you know, the free Asian area, with the Japanese being a separate problem.

But as I say, that is working out.

The Japanese are being quite cooperative at the moment.

But Connolly will be meeting with them at great length.

But on the Latin American side, coming back to your proposition, we definitely are looking in that direction.

And I think what we'll tell Finch...

Rather than having him announce it before we go, I think that I'll tell him.

He announced it was going to be done.

Yeah.

What I meant is if he can go to each one of these people, you see, and talk about the thing and say, no, we're all discussing this so that they know that it's coming and that we're going to get on.

I don't know if we can get it ready by the time he leaves.

I think he leaves on the 5th.

And Connie doesn't get back to the tent.

And we'd like to make a move on the whole hemisphere at one time, you see.

I understand that, and I would only raise one question.

That is, I have a feeling that he's going to get a pretty chilly reception.

I see.

If he goes now.

And I think he'd get a tremendously warmer reception.

I get your point.

Well, maybe we can move on it sooner.

I'll tell you what I'll do.

I'll kick the...

The Canadian negotiation along a little, it's underway.

In fact, Schultz is coming over in about a half hour to discuss it.

Great.

If we can get the Canadian thing on the way.

I think you can see the point of doing Canada.

I do, and I think maybe it would be worth his waiting a week if that would make the difference of being.

Because your point is he'd like to get a chilly reception unless otherwise.

Oh, I really think he's going to get a very rough reception.

That's right, right.

I think that, therefore, it'll be reflecting on the government here, and we don't want to see that.

On the other hand, if this is done, he's going to be a conquering hero for you, which I'd like to see.

Good point, a very good point.

I will get at this.

I think you're right.

I think if we could, even if we could say that we're,

that it's, no, I think it's, I think actually the resident saying that we ought to just really get it done before he goes so that, and then he can, he can walk out of the office and let him sort of help make the announcement or something, you know, that's, I see your point.

So that when he goes down there, they'll think he,

Well, we'll position it in a way to look as if he worked on it and you worked on it.

You know what I mean?

I get the point.

Well, the one man we want to see is you.

Well, I take the heat.

That's true.

Well, you do, and you deserve the credit.

And I think this is going to be a very great thing.

I really do.

And I'd do it before you got any other countries except Canada and then the Western Hemisphere.

Right, right.

Well, of course, I guess we could do a lot in America without Canada, even if they aren't ready, but particularly if the Canadians knew we were negotiating with them.

If they knew that all that was holding it up was some little thing.

Well, they know we're negotiating with them.

We've got a team there right now.

Ben, I really think this would be great.

I think it would make so much difference that it's... Let me do this.

I'll have George Schultz give you a call.

Excellent.

And give him a hard sell on it, will you?

I sure will.

Because you believe it.

Very deeply, Ann, and I think it'll be just the nick of time for our relationship.

And also another thing, too, we have to go ahead on their preferential thing at the correct time, but this, in a sense, well, it...

does treat them with preference by removing it from them before we move it from Europe.

And they'll understand that.

And they'll love it.

Right.

It shows this special relationship which you've been talking about.

That's right.

And then there is a little thing in our recommendation about division of labor, which I'm going to take the liberty of talking to Bob Finch about, which could be something as a give him a basis for some discussion with interest down there that I think would be quite exciting.

Good.

Well, anything you can do to help him on it, I would appreciate it.

He isn't going to make the kind of a tour unit.

It's only going to be to selected countries, but there are going to be damned important ones.

He's going to Mexico, Argentina, Brazil, I think.

Well, I think you've seen the list, perhaps.

If he gets a good reception there from the press as well as the political leaders, this will have a tremendous effect all over the hemisphere because it will be reflected in the other countries.

But I think you're right.

We should have this announced before.

And if he can't do it before, we ought to postpone it until we can.

I agree.

That would be marvelous.

I agree.

And I'll have Schultz give you a call, too.

Oh, wonderful.

And I'm delighted to talk to you.

Incidentally, everything is going all right.

You've ridden out that silly Attica storm, haven't you?

Oh, yes.

I think that was... Bastards.

I'm now working on a $2.5 billion bondage.

Oh, I know.

I've heard about that.

I think, keep your fingers crossed, I think we've got a better chance now of seeing it through.

I had heard that it was tough.

For us.

That's for transportation, I understand.

Mass transportation and highway.

But that will help you for everything, doesn't it, really?

Oh, yes.

And the teachers' union came out this morning for it on the grounds that if it didn't pass, that we'd be cutting everything in their right.

This was very perceptive.

Al Shanker.

He's a good man when he's on your side.

I know, I know.

Great.

Mr. President, it's nice to talk to you.

Good to talk to you.

We'll work on this.

Look forward to seeing you soon.

Thanks a lot.