Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 14 › Conversation 014-084

Nixon phone call with Ehrlichman on Education bill and Presidential veto

Friday, November 12, 1971 · 2:36 PM–2:38 PM ET · White House Telephone · 2 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); White House operator; Ehrlichman, John D.Conversation014-084 on Tape 14 (tape position 02:56:04–02:57:42)StartFriday, November 12, 1971 at 2:36 PMEndFriday, November 12, 1971 at 2:38 PMRecording deviceWhite House TelephoneSourceNixon Library record for 014-084 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and John Ehrlichman discuss the President’s firm intention to veto an education bill due to philosophical objections regarding the role of government in child-rearing. Nixon addresses his tactical frustrations with Secretary Elliot L. Richardson, who disagrees with the administration's stance and has been hesitant to align with the President's position. Ehrlichman agrees to coordinate with Richardson while acknowledging the political pressure on the Secretary and the President's resolve to ultimately reject the legislation.

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Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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Mr. President, Mr. Ehrlichman.
Yeah.
There you are.
Hello, John.
I got your memorandum with regard to Richardson, and I, of course, will follow that line.
But I just want to be sure that you know that I have no intention, whatever, of signing that bill.
Oh, absolutely.
Absolutely.
Particularly, John, and basically it is philosophical.
It's the philosophical thing that I can't, I mean, the money is terrible.
But, you know, I'm simply not going to have families, have kids raised by the government rather than by the families.
I know that.
I know Richardson disagrees with that.
That's it.
You see, I've got to keep him more or less in line.
I understand.
And this will help on that.
Good.
Well, I'll just simply say I'm not going to comment upon that until I see the report and...
and talk to Secretary Richardson.
I'm just not going to comment.
Well, you could give them a little whiff of your philosophical question.
Well, about saying what concerns me is that I don't want to see people, I mean, children raised by the government rather than by their families.
Well, now, if you just would say, I entertain some doubts, and I've got to talk to the Secretary about this.
Well, it's probably not going to come up, but...
Because they're more important things, but nevertheless.
I see.
We have been telling him and telling him and telling him, and he's been horsing us and horsing us and horsing us, and I don't want to play the ultimate Trump right at this point.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, the poor fellow, he's under tremendous heat.
That's the problem.
And he's been a damn good soldier.
We just think what the Christ Finch would have done to us.
Well, that's right.
He'd have been over the fence hours ago.
Let's do our best.
Okay.
But I just want you to know, I will never sign that.
Oh, I'll find some other reason.
I understand completely.
But you agree, don't you?
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
But I just have a tactical problem, right?
All right.
Okay, John.
Very good.
Fine.

NARA Description

On November 12, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, White House operator, and John D. Ehrlichman talked on the telephone from 2:36 pm to 2:38 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 014-084 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 14-84

Date: November 12, 1971
Time: 2:36 pm - 2:38 pm
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with the White House operator.

     John D. Ehrlichman

Ehrlichman talked with the President.

[See Conversation No. 297-40]

     Ehrlichman's memo regarding Elliot L. Richardson

     The President's veto of an education bill
          -The President's possible statement
          -Richardson
          -Robert H. Finch

Also recorded on November 12, 1971

  • 617-012 2:26 PM · 1 hr 8 min — President Richard M. Nixon, George P. Shultz, Caspar W. ("Cap") Weinberger, Stephen B. Bull, Clark MacGregor, William E. Timmons, Ronald L. Ziegler, Michael J. ("Mike") Mansfield, Hugh Scott, Gerald R. Ford, Milton R. Young, Allen J. Ellender, George H. Mahon, Frank T. Bow, and unknown person(s) met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 2:26 pm and 3:36 pm.
  • 297-040 2:36 PM · 5 min — President Richard M. Nixon and John D. Ehrlichman met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 2:36 pm to 2:38 pm.
  • 014-085 2:38 PM · 4 min — John D. Ehrlichman, White House operator, John D. Ehrlichman talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 2:38 pm and 11:59 pm.
  • 297-041 2:40 PM · 10 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Alexander P. Butterfield met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 2:40 pm to 2:41 pm.
  • 297-042 2:41 PM · 7 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 2:41 pm and 3:55 pm.
  • 297-043 2:41 PM · 5 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 2:41 pm and 3:55 pm.
  • 297-044 2:41 PM · 54 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 2:41 pm and 3:55 pm.
  • 297-045 2:41 PM · 21 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 2:41 pm and 3:55 pm.

All 93 conversations from November 12, 1971 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 014-084, November 12, 1971. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/014-084 (accessed October 1, 2026).