Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 18 › Conversation 018-008

Nixon phone call with Allen on Federal Budget and Harry Hopkins

Monday, January 3, 1972 · 12:13 PM–12:15 PM ET · White House Telephone · 2 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Allen, George E.Conversation018-008 on Tape 18 (tape position 00:08:49–00:11:10)StartMonday, January 3, 1972 at 12:13 PMEndMonday, January 3, 1972 at 12:15 PMRecording deviceWhite House TelephoneSourceNixon Library record for 018-008 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and George E. Allen exchanged New Year's greetings and discussed the political climate, including Nixon's high popularity rankings alongside Billy Graham. Nixon specifically solicited an anecdote from Allen regarding Harry Hopkins to use against Office of Management and Budget officials during budget negotiations. Additionally, the two men discussed the political necessity of recent U.S. bombing missions in North Vietnam as a means to protect American troops and facilitate withdrawal.

Audio

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Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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· Click a timestamp to play from that point; the page address then links to that moment (e.g. #t=125).
Hello.
Hello.
Here's Mr. Allen.
Yeah.
You can take it now.
Hello.
President.
Hello.
Mr. Allen.
Hello.
Yes, Mr. President.
George?
Yes, sir.
I wanted to ask you, I was trying to remember, George Shultz came in with a final budget.
What that Harry Hopkins story was about leaning on the shovel?
Oh, yes.
Harry said, uh...
They sent in a requisition for about 5,000 shovels.
Oh, yes.
And Harry wired them back, let them lean on each other.
Oh, let them lean on each other.
All right, I got it, I got it.
I want them to give the budget boys they're just having their...
You go through the egg and I'm going to say, let them lean on each other.
That's a good thing.
Mr. Preston, I think you're just going great.
I'm so proud of you.
Well, thank you, George.
Thank you.
Okay, just keep it up.
I just wish you a happy new year.
I wish you just a... And we...
I tell you, you saw you, you're still the most popular man.
That's great to know.
Well, that's only, George, because you're president, you know.
That's the one they know.
I think Billy Graham being second shows that it's a kind of a change in atmosphere.
Well, you know, I noticed some of our usual critics were squealing about the fact that I happened to bomb a few targets in North Vietnam.
You know, that'll pay off in the end because you know what it means.
You've been so right.
Well, the point is that we did it so that we can continue our withdrawal.
We're not going to let those clowns get down there and kill a few Americans.
That's right.
Well, look, we had one man killed last week.
That's right.
That's right.
Well, good to talk to you, George.
President, Ms. Nixon seems to be doing a good job.
She had a terrific reception.
Well, I'll remember that now, and I'll call George Schultz.
Yeah, just tell him that Harry Hopper, they wired in for 5,000 shovels.
Yeah, yeah.
And Harry says, just let them lean on each other.
They wired in from out some office.
Yeah, some state office.
Yeah.
A requisite.
I'll say that California wired in.
Yeah, California wired in.
All right, fine.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Okay.

NARA Description

On January 3, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and George E. Allen talked on the telephone from 12:13 pm to 12:15 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 018-008 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 18-8

Date: January 3, 1972
Time: 12:13 pm - 12:15 pm
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with George E. Allen.

[See Conversation No. 642-31]

     Harry L. Hopkins story
          -George P. Shultz
               -Budget
          -Requisition for shovels

     Support for the President

     New Year's wishes

     The President's popularity reflected in poll
          -Reverend William F. (“Billy”) Graham

     Critics
           -Bombing of North Vietnam
               -Reasons
                    -Troop withdrawal

                           -US casualties

     Thelma C. (“Pat”) Nixon
          -Reception

     Hopkins story
         -Shultz

Also recorded on January 3, 1972

  • 642-031 12:13 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and George E. Allen met in the Oval Office of the White House from 12:13 pm to 12:15 pm.
  • 018-009 12:16 PM · 9 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at 12:16 pm.
  • 018-010 12:16 PM · 55 sec — President Richard M. Nixon, George P. Shultz, and Caspar W. ("Cap") Weinberger talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 12:16 pm and 12:18 pm.
  • 642-032 12:16 PM · 59 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator met in the Oval Office of the White House at 12:16 pm.
  • 642-033 12:16 PM · 29 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 12:16 pm and 12:18 pm.
  • 642-034 12:16 PM · 1 min — President Richard M. Nixon, George P. Shultz, and Caspar W. ("Cap") Weinberger met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 12:16 pm and 12:18 pm.
  • 642-035 12:16 PM · 33 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and unknown person(s) met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 12:16 pm and 12:18 pm.
  • 642-036 12:16 PM · 12 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 12:16 pm and 12:18 pm.

All 105 conversations from January 3, 1972 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 018-008, January 3, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/018-008 (accessed September 30, 2026).