Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 18 › Conversation 018-010

Nixon, Shultz & Weinberger on Fiscal policy and Budgetary restraint

Monday, January 3, 1972 · 12:16 PM–12:18 PM ET · White House Telephone · 55 sec

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Shultz, George P.; Weinberger, Caspar W. ("Cap")Conversation018-010 on Tape 18StartMonday, January 3, 1972 at 12:16 PMEndMonday, January 3, 1972 at 12:18 PMRecording deviceWhite House TelephoneSourceNixon Library record for 018-010 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon recounted an anecdote about Harry Hopkins and the Works Progress Administration to George Shultz and Caspar Weinberger to illustrate his frustration with departmental budget or supply requests. The President used the story, which involved a director being told to have his workers 'lean on each other' rather than receive more shovels, as a directive for Shultz and Weinberger to relay a message of fiscal restraint to Secretary of Defense Melvin Laird. The call served as a lighthearted but firm instruction to curb administrative spending.

Audio

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Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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Hello.
Yes, sir.
Mr. Schultz and Mr. Weinberger.
Hello.
Yes, sir.
Well, I just got a call, talked to George Allen on the story better than I thought.
Back in the 30s, in the early, when Harry Hopkins was here, and he was in charge of PWA or WPA, I don't know which it was, but one of those two.
He got a wire.
desperately from the PWA director in California, asking for approval of a requisition for 5,000 shovels.
And Hopkins ripped off a wire back to him and said, tell them to lean on each other.
So you tell Laird to have them lean on each other.
Fair enough.
Very good, sir.
Now that's the laugh for the year, and you can pass it to all the staff, Cap.
Thank you.
Okay.
Very good.
Thanks a lot.

NARA Description

On January 3, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, George P. Shultz, and Caspar W. ("Cap") Weinberger talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 12:16 pm and 12:18 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 018-010 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 18-10

Date: January 3, 1972
Time: Unknown between 12:16 pm and 12:18 pm
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with George P. Shultz and Caspar W. (“Cap”) Weinberger.

[See Conversation No. 642-34]

     The President's call to George E. Allen
          -Harry Hopkins story about requisition for shovels
               -Public Works Administration [PWA]
               -Works Progress Administration [WPA]
          -Melvin R. Laird

Also recorded on January 3, 1972

  • 018-008 12:13 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and George E. Allen talked on the telephone from 12:13 pm to 12:15 pm.
  • 018-009 12:16 PM · 9 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at 12:16 pm.
  • 642-032 12:16 PM · 59 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator met in the Oval Office of the White House at 12:16 pm.
  • 642-033 12:16 PM · 29 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 12:16 pm and 12:18 pm.
  • 642-034 12:16 PM · 1 min — President Richard M. Nixon, George P. Shultz, and Caspar W. ("Cap") Weinberger met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 12:16 pm and 12:18 pm.
  • 642-035 12:16 PM · 33 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and unknown person(s) met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 12:16 pm and 12:18 pm.
  • 642-036 12:16 PM · 12 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 12:16 pm and 12:18 pm.
  • 642-037 12:18 PM · 14 min — President Richard M. Nixon, John W. Kauffman, Stephen M. Morris, Jack A. L. Hahn, Kenneth R. Cole, Jr., James H. Cavanaugh, White House photographer, and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House from 12:18 pm to 12:32 pm.

All 105 conversations from January 3, 1972 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 018-010, January 3, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/018-010 (accessed September 30, 2026).