← 022-033022-035 →

Conversation 022-034

TapeTape 22StartMonday, March 27, 1972 at 7:51 PMEndMonday, March 27, 1972 at 8:04 PMTape start time01:12:31Tape end time01:25:12ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Kissinger, Henry A.Recording deviceWhite House Telephone
AI Summary

President Nixon and Henry Kissinger discuss a range of foreign policy priorities and domestic political pressures following Kissinger's recent trip to Mexico. They address the timing of a Middle East settlement relative to the 1972 election, the status of negotiations with North Vietnam, and the strategic management of U.S.-Soviet relations. Additionally, they touch upon the political fallout of the ITT case and the administrative challenges of securing diplomatic appointments without inviting scrutiny over campaign contributions.

ITT caseMiddle East policyVietnam peace negotiations1972 presidential electionForeign policyDiplomatic appointments
AudioNARA Description

On March 27, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Henry A. Kissinger talked on the telephone from 7:51 pm to 8:04 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 022-034 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 22-34

Date: March 27, 1972
Time: 7:51 pm - 8:04 pm
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with Henry A. Kissinger.

     Kissinger’s previous trip
          -Location
          -Activities

     International Telephone and Telegraph [ITT] case
           -Duration
           -Evidence
                -Dita D. Beard
                      -Denials

     Luis Echeverria Alvarez
          -Previous meeting with Kissinger

           -US foreign policy
     -Forthcoming visit to the US
           -Date

Kissinger’s schedule

US-Soviet Union relations
    -Anatoliy F. Dobrynin
          -Upcoming meeting with Kissinger

Middle East
    -Kissinger’s previous conversation with Alexander M. Haig, Jr.
    -1972 election
    -Agreement
          -Timing
                -Summit meeting
    -US policy
          -Soviet presence
          -State Department
                -Perspective of State Department compared to perspective of
                Administration
                     -Soviet Union

Arthur K. Watson
     -The President’s view
          -Haig
          -US-People’s Republic of China [PRC] negotiations
                -Paris
                -New York
                -State Department
     -The President’s previous press conference
          -Kissinger’s view
     -The President’s view

Lt. Gen. Vernon A. Walters
     -Central Intelligence Agency [CIA] post
           -Confirmation
                 -Requirement
                 -John C. Stennis

Ambassadorships
    -Nominations

     -Campaign contributions
     -Richard G. Kleindienst

Vietnam
     -North Vietnamese ambassador
          -Suspension and resumption of peace talks
                -Date
     -Kissinger’s views
          -Forthcoming meeting with North Vietnamese
                -Date
     -Possible settlement
          -The President’s reelection
                -North Vietnamese view

Mexico
    -1972 US presidential election
          -Mexican view
    -Kissinger’s previous talk with Foreign Minister
          -Acapulco
    -Kissinger’s previous talk with Echeverria
          -Mexico City
          -Echeverria’s future visit to the US
                -Itinerary
                      -Chicago
                      -Los Angeles
                      -San Antonio
          -Latin American policy
                -Organization of American States [OAS]
                -Echeverria’s views
                      -Proposed communique
                      -Itinerary
                            -Chicago
                            -Los Angeles
                            -San Antonio
          -Colorado River
          -Foreign Minister
    -President’s previous trip to the People’s Republic of China [PRC]
          -Mexican viewing of television coverage
    -Acapulco

Washington, DC
    -The President’s view

          -Foreign policy
          -Domestic policy

     ITT case
          -Edward M. Kennedy
          -John N. Mitchell
          -Kleindienst

     Kissinger’s schedule
          -Appearance
Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Hello.
Mr. President.
Well, how are you feeling?
Oh, I'm feeling great.
You're back from your trip, and you had a good vacation.
Oh, I had a great time.
It's really a beautiful place.
Yeah, they just told me.
They got me a very beautiful house.
Right.
Did you see the guy die?
Yes, yes.
That's unbelievable.
Yeah, yeah.
Did you go swimming?
I went swimming every day.
I had a swimming pool there, and I went out on a boat almost every day.
Good, good.
So it's been really fun.
Well.
That's good.
Just about the good time we had a few days off.
Gives you a new look at things, you know.
Now we get on to the battle, huh?
You mean on the IT&T?
That's really something.
people on and on and on.
And they don't have anything except the memo of a fifth-level constable.
Yeah.
She sure unstabled it.
Yeah.
And she now denies it.
Oh, that's brilliant.
One of those things.
I talked to the president of Chicago today.
At your area?
Yeah.
Good, good.
He's going to be here on the 15th of June, right?
Right.
Well, that's good.
Too bad you have to come back.
You should stay down another month.
That's right.
Well, we've kept everything sort of in limbo the last few days.
Well, I noticed now that the breathing has surfaced, so it's saying that he had already arranged his official plan.
Oh, has he?
But that's what he was supposed to do.
Played the game.
Oh, no, he's been playing the game, and he kept it divided among various departments.
Right.
So it's going, and I'll see him as soon as...
And I had a talk, I just talked to Hager.
On the Middle East, the major grappling is to get it done in such a way that it doesn't flow before the reduction and then utilize it right after the reduction.
Except that we can heal.
Well, we could talk about that.
And that's the problem on how to do that.
Right.
And the only way of doing it is not to do it at the summit and conclude it a little later, closer to the election, so that it would close, so there would be less time to close.
That might be it.
We just don't want to miss the opportunity.
That's the problem.
Well, we have made...
But they need it.
Well, we can talk about it anyway.
I'm just thinking of just getting a plan.
That's the one area where we've really got to take charge of the policy.
run it our own way you know absolutely there's no question because you see the state is looking at it in terms of the of the just the middle east we're looking at it in terms of the soviet problem very different field well we got uh tried to keep watson afloat but he's uh you know the fellow has a
He has been allowing his private life to become too much surface.
We all know these things go on, for Christ's sake.
But I think it's the best way to end.
Of course, the laugh of the whole deal
that we know that nothing is being decided in Paris.
We're deciding it all in New York.
The state doesn't know that, Steve.
But for Christ's sake, it doesn't make any difference how we could have a chimpanzee as ambassador.
Exactly.
And we always tell them in New York a week before what he's saying.
Yeah, that's right.
And then also, so...
So basically, I was able to say, well, the talks are going very well.
I like the way you said he's conducting it in total surprise.
Yeah, well, he is.
You know, he behaves when he's on the job.
Oh, yeah.
And he's well-intentioned.
He's our man.
But he's one, you know, we don't have to remember yet.
He's a typical, typical.
Incidentally, is Waller still there?
No, Walters is over here.
Where is he?
He's deputy director of the CIA.
No, but we haven't got him confirmed.
It doesn't require confirmation.
It doesn't?
Oh, thank God.
At any rate, it's all done.
Well, you don't think it requires confirmation?
Well, if it does, it is done.
Oh, good.
He's not yet fully confirmed, but he's on the job.
Yeah, I wonder if we're going to have a hell of a flap.
We don't.
We can't.
You see, at the present time, I've decided not to send any more ambassadors except the Foreign Service type of information because of the fact that they're going to dig out, say, how much did you contribute to the campaign.
So no use of it.
We'll just have everything else, just let Chargé stay.
No?
No, of course.
If I go through this, I think they put the report in the report.
The North Vietnamese have answered us today.
What did they say?
About the 24th, well, they objected to what was done last week, but they better do it because he said he's proud of you and they agree to the 24th.
I think we ought to do that.
Okay.
Well, I think he'd be wrong.
Yeah, we don't want to break it up, but let him go back now.
And people will not.
I think he could interrupt the week, Mr. President.
If he's done.
And then next week they'll have to ask for another meeting.
They'll accept.
Oh, yes.
If the 24th blows up, if the meeting with them blows up, then we should interrupt the other meetings, too.
Absolutely.
Because if the 24th goes up, that means that they're just using the other meetings.
They aren't angry.
I still believe, Mr. President, that they must be thinking seriously about that.
They may be.
Because it's not like all the intelligence you get is going to do something.
I'm really beginning to talk about what they'll be facing if we get re-elected.
Yeah.
I can assure you that... Or even if I don't, they've got to figure that.
But here in this town...
Don't you really?
Yeah.
Oh, they're important.
Were you in Mexico City?
Good, good.
Right over to there.
Let's lay on a hell of a schedule.
Because he's a very attractive guy and strong.
Maybe we can get something ready by that time.
Or do you think we don't want to throw that at the OAS?
No, not at all.
be a waste.
And that he'll suggest, in other words, what we can do.
Dutch has come forth with a communicator that really has solid leaders.
Exactly.
And in any event, you said you wanted to travel to Chicago, so back to San Antonio.
Great.
You said you'd come to see me.
It's such a way to get to other states.
Remember, I didn't ask for it.
and I thought he was going to plug out the bus to Tennessee, to the Colorado River, which is what his foreign minister did.
You mean he sees the trauma of the bigotry?
Well, apparently, all the Mexicans who are watching the China Tribune, very good.
Were they?
Very good.
Well, you're right, Henry.
This city is such a potent area.
It's so different from the rest of the country.
We fail to realize the nature.
And in the world, actually.
Foreign, yeah.
And the mere fact of your success in foreign policy is driving these guys now into the United States.
Sure.
Well, but I, I, my impression is that you see all great foundations in orbit, but I just can't believe you're outside of orbit.
That's it.
The purpose of Teddy Kim and these guys is to make it appear they're all perfect and so forth.
The point is that this whole ITG thing, the reason that it's so silly in a way is that it doesn't involve anybody, you know, like Mitchell, Vine, these guys.
No personal gain.
Nothing.
There's nothing to do with that.
They do create an aura out of it, maybe, or something.
Well, I'm glad you're back.
We tried not to bother you.
Hope you got your... Did you get any tan?
Did you lose any weight?
I'm afraid I can't do it.
Oh, damn it.
You shouldn't have eaten that Mexican food.
I had a great time.
I couldn't have felt it.
Really?
That's important.
Don't overdo.
Get a good night's sleep.
← 022-033022-035 →