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Conversation 022-035

TapeTape 22StartMonday, March 27, 1972 at 8:05 PMEndMonday, March 27, 1972 at 8:26 PMTape start time01:25:12Tape end time01:46:42ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Colson, Charles W.Recording deviceWhite House Telephone
AI Summary

President Nixon and Charles Colson discuss the ongoing political damage caused by the International Telephone and Telegraph (ITT) scandal and the resulting controversy surrounding Richard G. Kleindienst's Senate confirmation. They express frustration with the media's handling of the case and the unauthorized television appearances of White House staff, specifically Peter M. Flanigan. To mitigate political fallout during an election year, the President and Colson determine that they must force a resolution to the ITT matter and minimize the duration of the Senate hearings to prevent further damage to the administration.

ITT scandalRichard G. KleindienstMedia coverageWhite House communications strategySenate confirmation hearings
AudioNARA Description

On March 27, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson talked on the telephone from 8:05 pm to 8:26 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 022-035 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 22-35

Date: March 27, 1972
Time: 8:05 pm - 8:26 pm
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with Charles W. Colson.

     Colson’s schedule

     International Telephone and Telegraph [ITT] case
           -Media coverage
                -American Broadcasting Company [ABC]
                      -Hugh Scott
                      -Roman L. Hruska
                            -Remarks
                                  -Edward M. Kennedy
                -National Broadcasting Company [NBC]
                -Columbia Broadcasting System [CBS]
                      -Interview with Peter M. Flanigan
                            -Ronald L. Ziegler
                            -The President’s response
                            -Colson’s call to CBS
                -Flanigan
                      -Involvement
                -Kennedy
                      -Remarks
                            -Dita D. Beard

                               -Health
              -ABC
              -Flanigan interview
                    -Ziegler
              -Policy regarding appearances by administration officials
                    -Henry A. Kissinger
                    -John A. Scali
                    -Flanigan
              -Hruska’s press coverage
                    -Talk with Colson
                    -Appearance
                    -ABC
                    -Remarks
                          -Democrats
                          -Lawrence F. O’Brien, Jr.
                          -Kennedy
                          -Gary W. Hart
                          -Birch E. Bayh, Jr.
              -Beard
                    -Kennedy
                    -Health
                          -Diagnosis
                    -Lawyer
                    -Kennedy
         -White House plan
              -Clark MacGregor
                    -Visit with James O. Eastland
              -Richard G. Kleindienst
                    -Strategy
                    -Television time
              -Press releases

    Albert E. Sindlinger
         -Talk with Colson
         -Poll results
         -Approval of the President
               -Male response
               -Female response

******************************************************************************

[Previous PRMPA Personal Returnable (G) withdrawal reviewed under deed of gift 03/01/2018.
Segment cleared for release.]
[Personal Returnable]
[022-035-w001]
[Duration: 3m 18s]

     1972 campaign
          -Edmund S. Muskie
               -Network coverage
                     -Campaign contributors list
                           -Joseph Wilson
                           -David V. Picker
                                 -United artists
                                -The President’s opinion
                           -Gene [sp?] Benjamin
                                 -United artists
                           -Jewish contributors
                           -Harold Perlman [sp?]
                           -Picker
                           -Benjamin
                           -Sanitize
                           -Joseph Wilson
                           -Picker
                           -Benjamin
                           -Perlman
          -Jews
               -Support for the President
                     -Mitchell/Kissinger theory
                     -Colson’s view of supporters
                           -James L. Buckley
                           -Forest Hills
               -Intellectuals
                     -Support for Muskie
          -Hubert H. Humphrey
               -Campaign contributors list
                     -Length
               -Campaign finances
               -Jewish support
                     -Fundraising
          -Henry M. Jackson
               -Jewish support
          -Humphrey

         -Media
             -Nomination
             -Martin Z. Agronsky
                  -Muskie
                        -Pennsylvania primary

******************************************************************************

    ITT case
         -Kleindienst
              -Confirmation
                    -Opponents
                    -Wallace H. Johnson
                    -Chris Gay [sp?]
         -Kennedy inquiry
              -Witnesses
              -Beard
              -Public response
         -ITT as an issue
              -Impact on election
              -Media coverage
                    -Funds
                    -White House call
                    -Kennedy
                    -CBS
                          -Flanigan
                    -NBC
                          -Denver
                    -Marlow W. Cook interview
                          -Kennedy
                    -ABC
              -Wires
                    -Edward J. Gurney
                    -Robert J. Dole
                    -Hruska
              -Network coverage
                    -White House counter measures
                          -Easter
         -Kleindienst confirmation
              -Remarks to Senate Committee
              -Talk with White House

                -MacGregor
                     -Eastland
          -Timing
          -Eastland
                -Committee hearings
                     -Filibuster
                     -Media coverage
          -Talk with the President
          -Talk with John N. Mitchell
     -Mitchell
          -Talk with Colson
                -Democrats

Democrats
    -Major issues
          -Food prices
               -Connally

ITT case
     -Kleindienst confirmation
          -Results of publicity
          -Public response
          -MacGregor

Economy
    -Unemployment insurance claims
        -Decline
        -Herbert Stein

ITT case
     -Breaks for administration
     -Resolution
     -Senate hearing
           -Public response
           -Media coverage
     -Flanigan interview
           -Substance
                -Thomas F. Eagleton
     -Senate hearings
           -Kennedy
Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Hello?
Yeah.
Well, you had a long day.
Yeah.
They interviewed Flanagan?
why in the hell did he go on you mean flanagan went on nbc flanagan had no business going what did he go on about what in the name of god did he do well apparently the
And he cooperated with them by giving them audio.
Of course I figured they'd have him on all three.
with her family and David.
If it takes several months, David and Eddie will be prepared to hear her whenever she can do it better than she wants it to.
And I think that's a big point about her not being able to handle things as good as she wants.
She's getting to be able to prepare for it when I'm ready to go find her.
Go find her.
That's it.
But ABC gave him a good break.
That's one network out of three.
33 and a third percent.
But my God, I don't know why Flanagan went on without consulting anybody.
Well, I gather he consulted Ziegler.
I told Ziegler.
Did Ziegler know about what was going on?
Yeah.
I just told him, you know, I just knew my time was...
That's all right.
Well, we have to watch our people.
The White House staffers are going to stay the hell off the television.
Unless they're on, unlike if we put Henry out on something or a galley or something.
But for Christ's sakes, the Flanagan has got to keep the goddamn...
Yeah, and this is kind of a controversy.
He went and the media just knew.
Right.
And as Russ said, he got it.
He was jumping right down that throat and that press conference.
But I must say...
But he reacted roughly to it.
That's for him.
Yeah, and he called the...
I don't know if I mentioned this.
He called to say, I want to thank you.
He's never had a better press conference than this.
I know he's ready to go to bat again.
Yeah.
He's getting a little deep.
He looked good tonight, I'm going to say.
And ABC, he was beautiful, because he got into about a minute and a half, all of the crazy things.
The guy that was sitting with him, he called the telegraph before him.
Larry O'Brien, before him.
And the general tenor of the night was not bad, because they had a lot of good friends.
And the doctor, what I mean, he's now in his 70s, 60s, 70s.
And yeah,
I'm afraid that's one thing that isn't going to happen.
Well, we'll just do our best.
but in any event they now now we move on though to the other plan is
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
No option, but you mean to have, uh, find these to...
I know, we are.
Sure, I know.
And as a matter of fact, he's done everything.
With the media the way they are, they've done a great job.
The headlines and the...
Except for an occasional break on TV, we can make a mention of the lower end of it.
It's been like you called me today.
Oh, yeah.
You said that mail approvals over the weekend were really heavy on the side of the direct development of the company.
And the female attitude was to be there.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, I think our problem here really is to get the, we've got to get the Glendys thing, we've really got to cut our losses.
I regret to reach that conclusion, but, you know, it's a shame for a decent man to be pilloried, but he's a guy that realizes if he isn't going to make a truck, he may as well.
That's right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
but you can't do it in the election year
With everything you had.
Yeah, they picked up now at $600,000.
That's their big thing.
Didn't it?
Oh, well, that's good.
Well, don't watch it all.
But anyway, I know what they would play, though.
They'd pick up that.
Or it's the White House call.
Isn't that it?
The point is that they... NBC had fun, I guess.
No, CBS had fun.
That's right.
NBC had a good opening, but they didn't use our guys.
They just said that they were not a good group.
I had Marlo Cook, who was the only one who used our guys.
What's ABC?
ABC.
Now, the wires I have in front of me, there's four pieces of wires...
No, but the networks, Chuck, they are...
The TV is just hitting... Well, we'll try to find ways to... We're bound to find it.
Oh, you've got Easter coming.
You know.
It'll give us a little rest, but...
going over their heads is a little hard, Chuck.
Well, it may be that the plain beast move is the only thing that will do it.
But if, has anybody talked to plain beasts along these lines yet?
No, uh, what I, what I thought we should do is, is you have a regular warning to people that you plan to do that after.
Yeah.
And give us it.
And give us your report.
If, if it looks like we can get it up, uh, in our own fillings, we don't want to push you to do that.
But if you want to do that, you've got to, um, you've got to push it to do it.
And the second step is that we get even more cooperative on it.
If we don't,
um
Yes.
Yeah, yeah, grind them right, but down.
But it'll be on the airways for another month, Chuck.
That's the point.
Oh, hell, I won't talk.
Well, he's going to have to talk to Mitchell about it, too, you know, because Mitchell is a big thing as well.
He's going to have to tell him about it.
Well, I wouldn't be surprised if that man were to tell you about it.
I think that's true.
What I told him about it, I told him about it.
He's going to have to tell me about it.
He's going to have to tell me about it.
Has he?
Yeah.
At first, he said, oh, he's out.
He's going to have to tell me about it.
The only issue they've kept going back on is the food prices in some regions.
We can try not running out.
They know we can do it.
This one is like a dragon to the musketeer.
I'm going to agree with that.
That makes it even worse.
As far as the fire, we haven't.
I like that.
That's true.
But if you keep it on long enough, it does hurt.
Right.
Right.
Just killing.
Yep.
Well.
Hmm.
Yeah, he'll be a strong.
Right.
Yes.
Okay, well, maybe something else.
Let me get a break out of this yet.
We certainly haven't received any breaks.
We've tried to make a few, but we haven't gotten any breaks, have we?
I agree.
You've got to get it to a head and get the damn thing over with.
We just cannot have it hanging in there in the Senate for...
fight it off so that people wonder, well, Christ, there must be something wrong.
Yeah, that's right.
You've got to figure that...
they're getting a mass evils from media unbelievable he was on himself
I see.
But why do they hatchet him, Mark?
Is he just fixing cases?
He's crooked?
Yep.
Oh yeah, you've got to expect that.
deadly answer.
Try another one tomorrow.
Okay.
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