Nixon White House Tapes ›Tape 22 › Conversation 022-036

Haldeman, MacGregor & Colson on ITT case and Senate hearings

Tuesday, March 28, 1972 · 10:30 AM–5:30 PM ET · White House Telephone ·4 min

ParticipantsHaldeman, H. R. ("Bob");  White House operator;  MacGregor, Clark;  Colson, Charles W.Conversation022-036 onTape 22 (tape position 01:46:42–01:50:42)StartTuesday, March 28, 1972 at 10:30 AMEndTuesday, March 28, 1972 at 5:30 PMRecording deviceWhite House TelephoneSourceNixon Library record for 022-036 ↗

AI Summary

H. R. Haldeman, Clark MacGregor, and Charles Colson coordinated strategies to successfully terminate the Senate hearings concerning the ITT case. MacGregor outlined efforts to secure necessary votes from Republican senators and Senator James Eastland, while discussing potential concessions and scheduling hurdles. The participants also considered whether Peter Flanigan should provide a statement to the committee, weighing the political benefits against the risks of breaching executive privilege.

Audio

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Transcript (AI-generated)

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McGregor, please.
Thank you, Mr. President.
Ms. Haldeman.
Oh, I'm sorry.
Hello.
Hi, Clark.
Hi, Bob.
Things have gone well.
Bob Byrd has told me, he said, please don't advise anybody, but I will vote with you to terminate the hearings.
We have five Republicans, Scott, Bernie, Cook, and Thurmond.
We'll vote to terminate the hearings.
Those are seven votes.
Fong is in Hawaii.
We haven't communicated with Fong as yet.
Mathias is on route back from Reno, Nevada.
He'll be here 11 o'clock tonight.
I have a date to see him at 11.30 tonight.
He'll go with you, won't he?
I think he will.
I think he will.
We'll put maximum pressure on McComb.
We'll give his proxy to Eastland.
It may cost us a Veterans Hospital in Fort Roots, but I understand we need a new one there anyway.
John Mitchell called me again and wants me to go back and see Eastland and kind of talk to him again about the two witnesses that Eastland wants to call.
I told John that I'd visit with him later.
I didn't want to talk to him too much in Scott's office.
But I must tell John that we have got to pursue this strategy.
You mean Mitchell wants to have him hear the witnesses?
Well, John said, if you can hear the witnesses on Thursday, why don't you just defer 24 hours and try and close the hearings as of Thursday?
And the trouble with that is that Wednesday night is breakaway night for the senators.
We won't have our troops there on Thursday.
And then John finally said, well, if...
If having these additional two witnesses means you have to go over to them next week, then I'd agree with the strategy of closing it off.
Oh, good.
But John wants me to go back to Eastland with Martian.
Goddamn Martian's in it again.
Yeah, I don't know that that's the best strategy.
We're here now in my office, Wally Johnson, John Dean, Chuck Colson.
Hang tight.
Yeah, I think we should just hang tight.
Irvin's vote might be obtainable on a motion to terminate if we had a statement from Flanagan before the committee.
John Dean and Chuck Colson are here and we're raising the issue.
The Republican Senators feel that it would be very helpful, without breaching the wall of executive privilege, we could have some expression from Flanagan.
John Dean raises the question of whether an exchange of letters, Ruska to Flanagan and Flanagan in response,
would be appropriate.
I just wanted you to know we're discussing this issue.
We appreciate it.
It's fraught with all sorts of problems.
You sure should talk to Ehrlichman on that, because he's the guy that's been fighting that whole... Yeah.
Is John reachable?
Yeah.
All right.
Fort can reach him.
All right.
I just wanted you to know that we're discussing this.
Chuck Holston is here, John's here, and we'll discuss this, and then we'll keep you posted.
Okay.
Just a minute.
Chuck wants me to say something.
No, they're going ahead.
They'd just be a lot happier.
The Republican Senators don't demand that the Flanagan expression be on the record before they go ahead.
They're prepared to go ahead.
And as I say, as far as I know, Eastland's pledge to me, his word to me, is still just as good as it was when he gave it.
And Bob Bird, I know, is stalling Teddy Kennedy, who's trying to get him committed to vote against him.
termination, and he gave me his word that he'd vote for termination.
So we've got a close situation, and the question is whether we bring Fong back, but we'll be wrestling with that one.
And as I say, I'll see him with us tonight.
Just wanted to keep you posted so that when he inquires, tell him where we are.
Okay.
Thank you.
Thanks, Claire.

NARA Description

On March 28, 1972, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, White House operator, Clark MacGregor, and Charles W. Colson talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 10:30 am and 5:30 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 022-036 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 22-36

Date: March 28, 1972
Time: Unknown between 10:30 am and 5:30 pm
Location: White House Telephone

H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman talked with the White House operator.

     Request for call to Clark MacGregor

Haldeman talked with MacGregor.

     International Telephone and Telegraph [ITT] case
           -Senate hearings
                -MacGregor meeting with Robert C. Byrd
                      -Termination of hearings
                            -Hugh Scott
                            -Roman L. Hruska
                            -Edward J. Gurney
                            -Marlow W. Cook
                            -Strom Thurmond
                            -Hiram L. Fong
                                 -Location
                            -Charles McC. Mathias, Jr.
                                 -Location
                                 -Upcoming meeting with MacGregor
                -James O. Eastland
                      -MacGregor talk with John N. Mitchell
                            -MacGregor meeting with Eastland
                                 -Witnessess
                            -MacGregor’s location
                                 -Scott’s office
                            -Witnesses
                                 -Testimony
                                       -Time
                            -MacGregor and Robert C. Mardian meeting with Eastland
           -MacGregor’s location
                -Wallace H. Johnson
                -John W. Dean III
                -Charles W. Colson

                -Termination of hearings
                     -Samuel J. Ervin, Jr.’s vote
                          -Peter M. Flanigan statement
                                -Dean
                                -Colson
                                -Republican Senators’ strategy
                                      -Executive privilege
                                -Dean strategy
                                      -Hruska-Flanigan correspondence
                                -MacGregor call to John D. Ehrlichman

MacGregor conferred with Colson.

     Unknown person’s wishes

     Sine qua non

[End of conferral]

     ITT case
          -Flanigan statement
                -Republican Senators
          -Eastland
          -Byrd
                -Edward M. Kennedy
                     -Strategy
                -Vote
          -Fong
          -MacGregor’s meeting with Mathias

Also recorded on March 28, 1972

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  • 695-002 10:19 AM · 51 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Henry A. Kissinger, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, Ronald L. Ziegler, Alexander P. Butterfield, and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House from 10:19 am to 11:11 am.
  • 695-003 11:11 AM · 1 hr 18 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Ronald L. Ziegler, King Hussein ibn Talal, Zaid al-Rifai, White House photographer, and Henry A. Kissinger met in the Oval Office of the White House from 11:11 am to 12:28 pm.
  • 695-004 12:29 PM · 4 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 12:29 pm and 12:34 pm.
  • 695-005 12:29 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 12:29 pm and 12:34 pm.
  • 695-006 12:34 PM · 9 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Kevin Heald, Mrs. Raymond Heald, Raymond Heald, Robert L. Hensen, Frederick C. Wieting, Calvin Hill, Jack R. Miller, John A. Scali, and White House photographer met in the Oval Office of the White House from 12:34 pm to 12:43 pm.
  • 695-007 12:43 PM · 9 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House from 12:43 pm to 12:44 pm.
  • 695-008 12:44 PM · 1 hr 26 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Clark MacGregor, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, Stephen B. Bull, Manolo Sanchez, and Charles W. Colson met in the Oval Office of the White House from 12:44 pm to 2:10 pm.

All 23 conversations from March 28, 1972 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 022-036, March 28, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/022-036 (accessed September 18, 2026).